West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: white Boy on March 24, 2004, 04:10:22 PM
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http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20040324110909990001 (http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20040324110909990001)i say no... wana know what everyone else thinks
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Yes.
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Sure. America was founded as a religious union, it's on all our money, etc. and was meant as a safe haven where anybody can practice any religion, or not practice any religion. Just because "Under God" doesn't apply to 10 percent of the people doesn't mean that they should take it out. It's part of America, and what the founding fathers intended when they started this great country. And yes, before you try and pull some bullshit, I know it wasn't in the pledge originally.
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No.
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if you're so offended by having "God" in something, then all you morons can send me your money and i'll be happy to relieve you of any religious oppression our government is trying to force upon you....until then shut the fuck up
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Indivisible?
Congress changed the Pledge of Allegiance 50 years ago, adding two little words that now pose a big question for the Supreme Court. Can 'under God' be part of a pledge recited in public schools? Or does it cross the line dividing church and state? Post | Chat
Supreme Court Takes On 'Under God' Case
By GINA HOLLAND, AP
WASHINGTON (March 24) - Not long after the Supreme Court came to order Wednesday with the invocation, ''God save the United States and this honorable court,'' the justices were deep in a wrenching argument over whether millions of public schoolchildren may continue pledging allegiance to one nation ''under God.''
The religious reference in the Pledge of Allegiance, a California atheist argued, is an unconstitutional government promotion of religion in his daughter's third-grade classroom.
''I am an atheist. I don't believe in God,'' Michael Newdow told the justices and a rapt, packed courtroom, arguing with passion and personal asides - unusual for the dry, cerebral high court. ''Every school morning, my child is asked to stand up, face that flag, put her hand over her heart and say that her father is wrong.''
On the other side, Bush administration lawyer Theodore Olson said the pledge reflects America's religious heritage.
''It is an acknowledgment of the religious basis of the framers of the Constitution, who believed not only that the right to revolt, but that the right to vest power in the people to create a government ... came as a result of religious principles,'' Olson said.
That view was loudly represented outside the court, with scores of demonstrators reciting the pledge and carrying signs that read, ''In God We Trust.''
The high court is expected to rule by summer.
Newdow, a lawyer, made the rare and usually foolhardy decision to argue his own case before the court. He withstood the justices' vigorous questions, and based on their smiles and glances, it seemed he had won their respect.
Newdow had prevailed in one respect before Wednesday's argument began. He had asked Justice Antonin Scalia to step aside because of remarks that seemed to prejudge the case. Scalia complied.
If the rest of the court agrees with Newdow now, it could declare that the phrase ''under God'' breaches the figurative wall separating church and state. That would mean an end to the Pledge of Allegiance as generations of American schoolchildren have known it.
Or, as several justices indicated during arguments, the court could rule that the words are a benign and ceremonial part of a traditional, patriotic exercise.
''We have so many references to God in our daily lives today,'' Justice Sandra Day O'Connor told Newdow, including the court's own, familiar opening call.
If the pledge cannot refer to God, the justices asked, what about the phrase ''In God We Trust'' on U.S. currency? What about dating laws and government proclamations with the notation, ''in the year of our Lord?''
Newdow's answer: Nobody is making his 9-year-old say ''In God We Trust'' or singling her out as an oddball if she refuses.
The Supreme Court already has ruled that schoolchildren cannot be forced to say the pledge, but Newdow says that is not good enough. When a teacher, paid by taxpayers, stands up and leads the pledge, it is unrealistic to expect small children to opt out, Newdow said.
''Imagine you're the one atheist with 30 Christians,'' Newdow said.
Newdow is almost single-handedly fighting not only his daughter's Sacramento-area school, but also the Bush administration and a majority of American public opinion. The girl's mother also opposes his effort.
Almost nine in 10 people said the ''under God'' reference belongs in the pledge, according to an Associated Press-Ipsos poll released this week.
Newdow and supporters such as the American Civil Liberties Union also must contend with the court's own statements about the pledge in the past.
Olson pointed to 14 instances where various Supreme Court justices have endorsed the wording, religious reference and all.
Congress inserted the words ''under God'' in 1954, at the height of the Cold War, to distinguish the religious tradition of the United States from the official atheism of the Soviet Union. Some defenders of the pledge argue that even with those beginnings, the passage of time has laundered the words of their religious meaning.
Newdow won in San Francisco's 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, which ruled that teachers are barred from leading the pledge, with its reference to God, in public schools.
The Supreme Court repeatedly has banned prayers and official religious exercises from public schools, and the 9th Circuit relied on those previous cases in its ruling.
Should the high court uphold the decision, public schools could still recite a pledge with its pre-1954 wording, ''one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.''
Before the high court decides the meat of the case, it must determine a crucial procedural issue. The Bush administration and other pledge supporters claim Newdow does not have the proper legal footing to bring his case because he does not have full legal custody of his daughter.
Newdow was never married to the girl's mother, and the precise details of their custody arrangement are complex and changeable. Sandra Banning, a Christian and a supporter of the Pledge's wording, has legal custody and the right to make decisions about her daughter's education. She attended the hearing Wednesday.
The 9th Circuit said Newdow nonetheless had standing to challenge the pledge, but the Supreme Court could disagree. The justices, if they choose so, could decide only that Newdow cannot bring the suit, without tackling the tough constitutional question.
The case is Elk Grove Unified School District v. Newdow 02-1624.
03/24/04 16:32 EST
Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.
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Yes
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honestly the pledge never has and never will mean shit to me...hell the westside connection pledge means more to me than the american pledge...you can say im unamerican or whatever but they are just words...and honestly i could give a fuck less. but if i had to choose yes or no i would say yes based on exactly what trauma said...if 90% of the US believes in god...whether it be the same or 40 different gods...the majority is still under god.
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it shouldnt be an issue
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Hell no. It wasnt in the original !!!!!!!!!! I wonder y? No twice.
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I say it duznt belong there, because, firstly, many people are atheist this country, and also because the words "Under god", which were added about 50 years ago to the pledge, are out of context in the sentece. They just stuck it in there. Why is our nation "under god"? is it? i think our nation thinks we're better thang god. I think "One Nation, Indivisible..." is a better way to inspire patriotism in people. The cohesiveness of the country has nothing to do with religion
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actually i said no, but trauma makes a great point, this nation IS under god, about 90% of people living here belive in a god... theres no athiast presidents, congresman, mayors, governers.... ect... so this nation runs under god... but just adding it in is unecassary
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na, people go to church cuz they have no lives and they meet their "Friends" there on sundays. They belive is going to church, not GOD. 90 percen seems a little high of a number. NOw tell me, how many people pray at least once a week? I bet it woulndt be higher than 30%. THe "under god" part of the pledge of allegiance was added during the "religious revival" sort of things during the 50's when all women stayed at home, cooked, cleaned, and raised the kids.
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na, people go to church cuz they have no lives and they meet their "Friends" there on sundays. They belive is going to church, not GOD. 90 percen seems a little high of a number. NOw tell me, how many people pray at least once a week? I bet it woulndt be higher than 30%.
Congrats!
You've just moved from "Stupid" to "Stoopid"
How's the G.E.D. coming along?
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NOw tell me, how many people pray at least once a week? I bet it woulndt be higher than 30%.
Well, I can't speak for the Christians, but there are 10 million Muslims in this country, and Muslims pray 5 times a day. The reason I'm awake at 5:00am in the morning on my day off is because I have a morning prayer I want to attend at the mosque. (Allah increases our reward if we pray in congregation, although it is just fine to pray alone) We form lines or rows so close that the Shatan can't come between us and follow the imam in a ritual prayer of bowing, prostrating, and standing, that lasts several minutes.
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honestly the pledge never has and never will mean shit to me...hell the westside connection pledge means more to me than the american pledge...you can say im unamerican or whatever but they are just words...and honestly i could give a fuck less. but if i had to choose yes or no i would say yes based on exactly what trauma said...if 90% of the US believes in god...whether it be the same or 40 different gods...the majority is still under god.
LOL! I remember that WSCG shit!My friend used repeat it over and over,but why is the US debating about under god anyways?Who gives a fuck,I just don't like pleaging to the fucking flag! >:(
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What we have on this post, and in the world, basically, are people that have forgotten just what their country provides them. They're happy to reap the benefits and rewards of living in a certain country, but object and even feel animosity at taking an oath or a pledge to the country's flag. That's fucked up. Yall use our currency; you benefit from our economy; you rely on the safety provided by our police; you pay taxes; you obey our laws; you've been raised in most cases since birth under the umbrella of success and protection the simple act of being born into this country provides you; you have attended our schools; you've relied on our public services, our courts, our fire departments, our social services, our treasury, our libraries, the list goes on and on and on; you've for years operated within this system, taking advantage of the opportunities afforded you by it........
But yet you get mad about pledging to the flag? Bitch, you're already one of us. You were BORN that way. You LIVE that way. You PAY the government to do what it does. You leech as we all do it's services, and then spit in it's face on a fucking trivial, bitch quality like loyalty.
Nobody's gonna agree with me, but I know that's right.
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If is was so important it would've been there from the START, Not ADDED!!!!!!
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100% YES!
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What we have on this post, and in the world, basically, are people that have forgotten just what their country provides them. They're happy to reap the benefits and rewards of living in a certain country, but object and even feel animosity at taking an oath or a pledge to the country's flag. That's fucked up. Yall use our currency; you benefit from our economy; you rely on the safety provided by our police; you pay taxes; you obey our laws; you've been raised in most cases since birth under the umbrella of success and protection the simple act of being born into this country provides you; you have attended our schools; you've relied on our public services, our courts, our fire departments, our social services, our treasury, our libraries, the list goes on and on and on; you've for years operated within this system, taking advantage of the opportunities afforded you by it........
But yet you get mad about pledging to the flag? Bitch, you're already one of us. You were BORN that way. You LIVE that way. You PAY the government to do what it does. You leech as we all do it's services, and then spit in it's face on a fucking trivial, bitch quality like loyalty.
Nobody's gonna agree with me, but I know that's right.
I stand for what I believe in,I don't stand for no USA Flag,It seems evil to me!I'm also lazy so thats prob'ly I don't like pleaging to anything.