West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: King Tech Quadafi on October 10, 2004, 11:15:05 PM
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By JOSEF FEDERMAN, Associated Press Writer
JERUSALEM - A top adviser to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites) said in a published interview Wednesday that Israel's planned withdrawal from the Gaza Strip (news - web sites) is meant to delay the establishment of a Palestinian state indefinitely, and claimed the United States supports the policy.
The blunt assessment by Dov Weisglass, Sharon's point man with the Bush administration, came a week into a broad Israeli incursion in Gaza that has killed 75 people.
Weisglass' comments, published in the Haaretz daily, contradicted the Israeli government's assurances that it remains committed to the U.S.-backed "road map," which calls for an independent Palestinian state alongside Israel, but has been stalled for months amid violations by both sides.
Weisglass' remarks angered the Israeli left and prompted Sharon's office to issue a damage-control statement saying Israel remains committed to the road map. However, in a newspaper interview last month, Sharon said Israel is no longer following the plan.
In a radio interview Wednesday, Weisglass said his comments were taken out of context.
Haaretz said the quotes were excerpts from a full interview it plans to print on Friday. The interview included the most far-reaching comments by a senior Israeli official on Sharon's policy toward the Palestinians.
"The significance of the disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process," Weisglass was quoted as saying.
"Effectively, the whole package called the Palestinian state with all that entails has been removed indefinitely from our agenda. And all this with authority and permission — all this with a presidential blessing and the ratification of both houses of Congress."
"What I effectively agreed to with the Americans was that part of the settlements would not be dealt with at all," Weisglass was quoted as saying.
Sharon has proposed withdrawing from Gaza and four small West Bank settlements as part of his disengagement plan meant to separate Israelis and Palestinians after four years of fighting. Sharon refuses to negotiate with the Palestinians, claiming the current leadership is not a serious peace partner.
Sharon has said he hopes the withdrawals, planned for next year, will enable Israel to consolidate control of large blocks of West Bank settlements.
Palestinian Foreign Minister Nabil Shaath said Weisglass revealed Israel's real intentions. "Weisglass claims that the Americans are supporting him, and I would like once again to hear an American response on that matter," he said.
In Washington, State Department spokesman Adam Ereli said the United States remains committed to the road map and believes that Israel is too. However, he said Washington had expressed concern to Israeli officials over Weisglass' statements.
Weisglass' comments appeared largely aimed at courting Israeli hard-liners. Sharon has lost his parliamentary majority over the plan, and has not been able to broaden his coalition during the summer recess. Parliament is reconvening next week and will vote on the Gaza withdrawal in coming months.
Weisglass spoke as Israel's military waged a major military campaign against Palestinian militants in the northern Gaza Strip. It was launched a week ago in response to Palestinian rocket fire that killed two Israeli children.
Since then, 75 Palestinians have been killed. The military said its missiles have killed dozens of members of rocket squads and gunmen, but Palestinian hospital officials said 30 of the dead were civilians, including women and children.
Early Wednesday, tanks fired several shells toward the Jebaliya refugee camp, scene of the heaviest fighting.
The shell hit a house, killing a father and son, ages 55 and 25, and wounding eight members of the family, Palestinian hospital official said. The army said troops fired after an anti-tank shell was launched from the house.
Also Wednesday, a 15-year-old boy died of wounds, after being shot in the head by troops as he stood on the balcony of his home outside Jebaliya, doctors said.
Later Wednesday, Israeli helicopters struck what the army said was a Hamas weapons workshop in Jebaliya. Palestinian officials said one bystander was slightly wounded.
In central Gaza, three Palestinian gunmen armed grenades and other weapons broke into the Jewish settlement of Kfar Darom under cover of mortar and anti-tank fire, and were killed in exchanges of fire with Israeli troops, the army said. A Thai worker was also killed in the fighting.
In the West Bank, meanwhile, three masked gunmen entered a Ramallah hospital, kidnapped a man inside and killed him.
The Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, a violent group with ties to Yasser Arafat (news - web sites)'s Fatah (news - web sites) movement, claimed responsibility, saying 50-year-old Sami Burnat had sold land to Jews. Burnat had been a Palestinian prisoner and was being guarded by 10 unarmed policemen when he was abducted, officials said.
Meanwhile, a U.N. team arrived in Israel to investigate Israel's allegations the United Nations (news - web sites) Relief and Works Agency is biased against it.
Israel released a video last week it said showed a Palestinian rocket being loaded onto a U.N. ambulance. UNRWA officials said the video showed a worker putting a stretcher into the vehicle.
Israel has since backtracked on the claim, but insisted U.N. employees in the West Bank and Gaza assist militants.
The United Nations released a report Wednesday warning of an impending humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip because of Israeli policies and military operations. It said 66 percent of Gaza Palestinians live in poverty, a rate it expects to hit at least 72 percent by 2006.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=3&u=/ap/20041006/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians
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It only makes matters worse.
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Dont get it twisted homie and think for a second this situation was remotely fair since the creation of Israel. What has happened to the Palestinians is one of the greatest injustices of the 21st century, and God willing those responsible will be punished.
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Of course. The Israeli government has it coming to them sooner or later. You can only mistreat a group of people for so long before they can't take it anymore (civil war, revolution, whatever)
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What has happened to the Palestinians is one of the greatest injustices of the 21st century, and God willing those responsible will be punished.
Agree 100%.
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What has happened to the Palestinians is one of the greatest injustices of the 21st century, and God willing those responsible will be punished.
Agree 100%.
agreed
what i found funny was the statements about israel remaining committed to the road map when they've refused to negotiate with russia, the eu and palestine for the last year, also didn't the road map also state occupied territory had to be given back?
i want sanctions against israel for failing to take the roadmap seriously and america taken away as negotiation partner as they have very clouded judgement which doesn't reflect the international communities view, also in situations like theses its never best left for two extremely good friends (as nations) to negotiate how to end the conflict especially they way they are going about they are not trying to end it they are only trying to contain it.
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Dont get it twisted homie and think for a second this situation was remotely fair since the creation of Israel. What has happened to the Palestinians is one of the greatest injustices of the 21st century, and God willing those responsible will be punished.
they are being punished... palestinians are dying every day
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Un partition of palestine to create an independent jewish state 1947
(http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/images/unplan47.gif)
israel 1949
(http://www.mfa.gov.il/NR/rdonlyres/E80C2689-727F-4584-8DA3-49A3EF66AFEF/0/MFAG007d0.gif)
Israel 1967
(http://www.mfa.gov.il/NR/rdonlyres/A4F912E1-BC92-4626-A7D5-3DDF0D62933B/0/MFAG007s0.gif)
present day israel (turquoise and grey)
(http://www.mfa.gov.il/NR/rdonlyres/7B4C068A-BC60-48B0-9CED-244973AAACD5/0/MFAJ0d1s0.jpg)
Israel has been oppression palestinians since its conception, and instead of try to make a mense they just continue to opress palestinians and try to contain their rage within over crowded refugee camps as a result of the oppression so its a never ending cycle which will never go away until israel acts to be comitted to peace or the international community must act against israel.
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Dont get it twisted homie and think for a second this situation was remotely fair since the creation of Israel. What has happened to the Palestinians is one of the greatest injustices of the 21st century, and God willing those responsible will be punished.
they are being punished... palestinians are dying every day
Damn, those Jews got to you good. Only an idiot can be convinced that the victim is responsible for his plight. Which explains why the majority of Americans support the Israelis./
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Dont get it twisted homie and think for a second this situation was remotely fair since the creation of Israel. What has happened to the Palestinians is one of the greatest injustices of the 21st century, and God willing those responsible will be punished.
they are being punished... palestinians are dying every day
Damn, those Jews got to you good. Only an idiot can be convinced that the victim is responsible for his plight. Which explains why the majority of Americans support the Israelis./
palestinians are only victims because they wrote a check that their ass can't cash...
once again an good analogy
let's say i go to some fine dinning restaraunt.....such as Sizzlers... i order 145 of everything on the menu...i eat some of it, but when the check comes, i don't have nearly enough money to pay for it all... so taking your stance in the israel/palestine situation i could expect you to come out of the kitchen and tell every one to let me go because i made a mistake or that since i'm so poor compared to the sizzler's company, that i'm really the victim here?
i don't think so
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Dont get it twisted homie and think for a second this situation was remotely fair since the creation of Israel. What has happened to the Palestinians is one of the greatest injustices of the 21st century, and God willing those responsible will be punished.
they are being punished... palestinians are dying every day
Damn, those Jews got to you good. Only an idiot can be convinced that the victim is responsible for his plight. Which explains why the majority of Americans support the Israelis./
palestinians are only victims because they wrote a check that their ass can't cash...
once again an good analogy
let's say i go to some fine dinning restaraunt.....such as Sizzlers... i order 145 of everything on the menu...i eat some of it, but when the check comes, i don't have nearly enough money to pay for it all... so taking your stance in the israel/palestine situation i could expect you to come out of the kitchen and tell every one to let me go because i made a mistake or that since i'm so poor compared to the sizzler's company, that i'm really the victim here?
i don't think so
ok the jews stole every bit of thier land off the palestinians and because they get upset over that and living one big prison, constant raids into refugee camps with buldozers to destroy schools, farms and homes, its thier own fault is it?
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By JOSEF FEDERMAN, Associated Press Writer
JERUSALEM - A top adviser to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites) said in a published interview Wednesday that Israel's planned withdrawal from the Gaza Strip (news - web sites) is meant to delay the establishment of a Palestinian state indefinitely, and claimed the United States supports the policy.
The blunt assessment by Dov Weisglass, Sharon's point man with the Bush administration, came a week into a broad Israeli incursion in Gaza that has killed 75 people.
Weisglass' comments, published in the Haaretz daily, contradicted the Israeli government's assurances that it remains committed to the U.S.-backed "road map," which calls for an independent Palestinian state alongside Israel, but has been stalled for months amid violations by both sides.
Weisglass' remarks angered the Israeli left and prompted Sharon's office to issue a damage-control statement saying Israel remains committed to the road map. However, in a newspaper interview last month, Sharon said Israel is no longer following the plan.
In a radio interview Wednesday, Weisglass said his comments were taken out of context.
Haaretz said the quotes were excerpts from a full interview it plans to print on Friday. The interview included the most far-reaching comments by a senior Israeli official on Sharon's policy toward the Palestinians.
"The significance of the disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process," Weisglass was quoted as saying.
"Effectively, the whole package called the Palestinian state with all that entails has been removed indefinitely from our agenda. And all this with authority and permission — all this with a presidential blessing and the ratification of both houses of Congress."
"What I effectively agreed to with the Americans was that part of the settlements would not be dealt with at all," Weisglass was quoted as saying.
Sharon has proposed withdrawing from Gaza and four small West Bank settlements as part of his disengagement plan meant to separate Israelis and Palestinians after four years of fighting. Sharon refuses to negotiate with the Palestinians, claiming the current leadership is not a serious peace partner.
Sharon has said he hopes the withdrawals, planned for next year, will enable Israel to consolidate control of large blocks of West Bank settlements.
Palestinian Foreign Minister Nabil Shaath said Weisglass revealed Israel's real intentions. "Weisglass claims that the Americans are supporting him, and I would like once again to hear an American response on that matter," he said.
In Washington, State Department spokesman Adam Ereli said the United States remains committed to the road map and believes that Israel is too. However, he said Washington had expressed concern to Israeli officials over Weisglass' statements.
Weisglass' comments appeared largely aimed at courting Israeli hard-liners. Sharon has lost his parliamentary majority over the plan, and has not been able to broaden his coalition during the summer recess. Parliament is reconvening next week and will vote on the Gaza withdrawal in coming months.
Weisglass spoke as Israel's military waged a major military campaign against Palestinian militants in the northern Gaza Strip. It was launched a week ago in response to Palestinian rocket fire that killed two Israeli children.
Since then, 75 Palestinians have been killed. The military said its missiles have killed dozens of members of rocket squads and gunmen, but Palestinian hospital officials said 30 of the dead were civilians, including women and children.
Early Wednesday, tanks fired several shells toward the Jebaliya refugee camp, scene of the heaviest fighting.
The shell hit a house, killing a father and son, ages 55 and 25, and wounding eight members of the family, Palestinian hospital official said. The army said troops fired after an anti-tank shell was launched from the house.
Also Wednesday, a 15-year-old boy died of wounds, after being shot in the head by troops as he stood on the balcony of his home outside Jebaliya, doctors said.
Later Wednesday, Israeli helicopters struck what the army said was a Hamas weapons workshop in Jebaliya. Palestinian officials said one bystander was slightly wounded.
In central Gaza, three Palestinian gunmen armed grenades and other weapons broke into the Jewish settlement of Kfar Darom under cover of mortar and anti-tank fire, and were killed in exchanges of fire with Israeli troops, the army said. A Thai worker was also killed in the fighting.
In the West Bank, meanwhile, three masked gunmen entered a Ramallah hospital, kidnapped a man inside and killed him.
The Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, a violent group with ties to Yasser Arafat (news - web sites)'s Fatah (news - web sites) movement, claimed responsibility, saying 50-year-old Sami Burnat had sold land to Jews. Burnat had been a Palestinian prisoner and was being guarded by 10 unarmed policemen when he was abducted, officials said.
Meanwhile, a U.N. team arrived in Israel to investigate Israel's allegations the United Nations (news - web sites) Relief and Works Agency is biased against it.
Israel released a video last week it said showed a Palestinian rocket being loaded onto a U.N. ambulance. UNRWA officials said the video showed a worker putting a stretcher into the vehicle.
Israel has since backtracked on the claim, but insisted U.N. employees in the West Bank and Gaza assist militants.
The United Nations released a report Wednesday warning of an impending humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip because of Israeli policies and military operations. It said 66 percent of Gaza Palestinians live in poverty, a rate it expects to hit at least 72 percent by 2006.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=3&u=/ap/20041006/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians
Well at least we agree on one subject.
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This is one subject where I am always at odds with the majority of Americans and support for Israel in the US is pretty solid no matter what political party.
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Dont get it twisted homie and think for a second this situation was remotely fair since the creation of Israel. What has happened to the Palestinians is one of the greatest injustices of the 21st century, and God willing those responsible will be punished.
they are being punished... palestinians are dying every day
Damn, those Jews got to you good. Only an idiot can be convinced that the victim is responsible for his plight. Which explains why the majority of Americans support the Israelis./
palestinians are only victims because they wrote a check that their ass can't cash...
once again an good analogy
let's say i go to some fine dinning restaraunt.....such as Sizzlers... i order 145 of everything on the menu...i eat some of it, but when the check comes, i don't have nearly enough money to pay for it all... so taking your stance in the israel/palestine situation i could expect you to come out of the kitchen and tell every one to let me go because i made a mistake or that since i'm so poor compared to the sizzler's company, that i'm really the victim here?
i don't think so
ok the jews stole every bit of thier land off the palestinians and because they get upset over that and living one big prison, constant raids into refugee camps with buldozers to destroy schools, farms and homes, its thier own fault is it?
why don't you go back to the beginning when the world was trying to make peace between these two people and the palestinians said that there would be no peace and that they were going to either kill all the jews or chase them from this land...
they talked shit, they couldn't back it up, they got what they deserve. how are you going to feel bad for a group of people that declared war and then lost the war? i know mosst of you foreign people on this board would be happy as fuck if the US declared war on iraq...then started losing and we started getting invaded by iraq.... you would think it served us right....
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1. israel never accepted the UN partition plan as it was too limiting
2. palestinians and arabs declared war because their land was taken away from, just because they lost doesn't mean they were wrong
3. they never attatcked a country on another continent, the war was where they live
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1. israel never accepted the UN partition plan as it was too limiting
2. palestinians and arabs declared war because their land was taken away from, just because they lost doesn't mean they were wrong
3. they never attatcked a country on another continent, the war was where they live
1. the war gave israel the means to procure more land
2. don't talk shit if you can't back it up
3.you're looking to deep into my short analogy. fact is, they declared war and they're losing...too bad for them
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Posted on: Today at 03:18:15pmPosted by: Cartman
Insert Quote
Quote from: Don Rizzle on Today at 03:04:43pm
1. israel never accepted the UN partition plan as it was too limiting
2. palestinians and arabs declared war because their land was taken away from, just because they lost doesn't mean they were wrong
3. they never attatcked a country on another continent, the war was where they live
1. the war gave israel the means to procure more land
2. don't talk shit if you can't back it up
3.you're looking to deep into my short analogy. fact is, they declared war and they're losing...too bad for them
1. So if Canada decided to anex west america do you think the east would sit there and take it or risk losing more to take back what is righjtfully theirs, to be honest they never really had any choice the leaders of israel made it clear before and after independence that they would expand israels territory.
2. there is plenty of evidence to back what i said, i would rather refer back to you your own statement
3. well its hard to win a war when all the western nations helped israel build its military capabilities, which has stopped now with one notable exception of america who still give israel billions each year in military aid and vetos and UN resolution critising israel.
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In the end both sides pay with their lives and it will continue and people will complain but nothing will change. I believe Israel is ultimately responsible but fuck both sides. I am not a Jew nor a Palestinian so I really just don't care.
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Posted on: Today at 03:18:15pmPosted by: Cartman
Insert Quote
Quote from: Don Rizzle on Today at 03:04:43pm
1. israel never accepted the UN partition plan as it was too limiting
2. palestinians and arabs declared war because their land was taken away from, just because they lost doesn't mean they were wrong
3. they never attatcked a country on another continent, the war was where they live
1. the war gave israel the means to procure more land
2. don't talk shit if you can't back it up
3.you're looking to deep into my short analogy. fact is, they declared war and they're losing...too bad for them
1. So if Canada decided to anex west america do you think the east would sit there and take it or risk losing more to take back what is righjtfully theirs, to be honest they never really had any choice the leaders of israel made it clear before and after independence that they would expand israels territory.
2. there is plenty of evidence to back what i said, i would rather refer back to you your own statement
3. well its hard to win a war when all the western nations helped israel build its military capabilities, which has stopped now with one notable exception of america who still give israel billions each year in military aid and vetos and UN resolution critising israel.
1. if america wanted to expand it's borders and canadians declared war and threatened genocide or all americans...you bet we'd take their land after we stomp the shit out of them
2. there's plenty of evidence i can bring that the palestinians threatened to kill every jew and attacked them a few days after becoming a country
3. once again, don't declare war if you can't back it up.... you know why america doesn't just declare war on every country it doesn't like? because it knows that countries have allies that will stick up for them.... for awhile every country in that area was beating on Israel...so it's ok for muslim countries to team up but not for the jewish and their allies?
facts are Israel was given land... yes that was wrong
the palestians declared war and wanted to commit genocide ... which is also wrong
but winning the war is good for the jewish people...they were able to do what they wanted because the muslims were too barbaric to negoitiate
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1. you just proved my point
2. yes but for the above reason you've just justified their declaration of war
3. They didn't have any choice but to declare war. sometimes you fight for what is right no matter what the consequences may be. and when you look at the whole creation of israel its no wonder they were pissed off
a. it was not in the powers of the UN to divide up a country
b. the jews were already threatening the palestinians even whilst it was under british mandate and debating strategies to maintain power as a minority, and to make israel including the holy city of jerusalum completely jewish.
c. what gave the western world the right to decide what goes on in another continent which doesn't concern us, the jewish claim to the land was 2000 years old every single piece of land on this earth has changed hands at sometime or other in 2000 years it doesn't give any country these days to take back land because maybe someone they are remotely related owned jerusalem 2000 years ago. Admittedly after ww2 something had to be done to relocate the jews driven from their homes in europe by the nazis, my personal opinion we should have alocated them part of germany to form their own country.
alot of palestinians are christian too, if you go back a hundred years or so muslims jews and christians all lived there together peacefully.
I'll leave you with this thaught maybe the last 50 or 60 years have shown us why Jews didn't have a coutry of their own for all that time.
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1. So if Canada decided to anex west america do you think the east would sit there and take it or risk losing more to take back what is righjtfully theirs, to be honest they never really had any choice the leaders of israel made it clear before and after independence that they would expand israels territory.
LOL @ Canada annexing west America. Bad analogy... at least make it realistic.
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ok bad example heres a true life one
Nazi's wanted to take britain after invading the rest of europe, at the time there was plenty of talk of a peace treaty which meant we let europe become nazified and germany would let us keep our empire in the east. but we saw thru that wanted europe to be free so we thaught on when the outcome was unsure, america hadn't joined in so it was basically the british empire (who had under invested in defence for the last 20 years) against the germans who had built up their forces at a much faster rate.
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I cant see how anyone can support the Israeli Regime and what America does to support them. I really can't. It's obvious that the most powerful men in america are most likely Jews and that they just do it because they support their kind not because it's fair or anything. Imo the richest country in the world should know better.
I can only repeat what I always say when it comes to this topic: Imagine all of a sudden some strangers come to your house and say "Leave your house and this city in 10 minutes a bulldozer comes. We live here now, because a strange book written 2000 years ago says that this is our land. If you dont leave we shoot you and your wife and your kids with our AK's. Piece by piece, we'll take over your whole neighborhood, your whole city, your whole country, your whole continent. Have a nice day"
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I cant see how anyone can support the Israeli Regime and what America does to support them. I really can't. It's obvious that the most powerful men in america are most likely Jews and that they just do it because they support their kind not because it's fair or anything. Imo the richest country in the world should know better.
I can only repeat what I always say when it comes to this topic: Imagine all of a sudden some strangers come to your house and say "Leave your house and this city in 10 minutes a bulldozer comes. We live here now, because a strange book written 2000 years ago says that this is our land. If you dont leave we shoot you and your wife and your kids with our AK's. Piece by piece, we'll take over your whole neighborhood, your whole city, your whole country, your whole continent. Have a nice day"
wow this whole paragraph reeks of irony
didn't your people do that once before....about 50 years ago?
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I cant see how anyone can support the Israeli Regime and what America does to support them. I really can't. It's obvious that the most powerful men in america are most likely Jews and that they just do it because they support their kind not because it's fair or anything. Imo the richest country in the world should know better.
I can only repeat what I always say when it comes to this topic: Imagine all of a sudden some strangers come to your house and say "Leave your house and this city in 10 minutes a bulldozer comes. We live here now, because a strange book written 2000 years ago says that this is our land. If you dont leave we shoot you and your wife and your kids with our AK's. Piece by piece, we'll take over your whole neighborhood, your whole city, your whole country, your whole continent. Have a nice day"
wow this whole paragraph reeks of irony
didn't your people do that once before....about 50 years ago?
^^ so you support what Nazis did 50 Years ago?
sorry no way you can get out of that 8)
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i just think you're calling the kettle black
if we were talking about moving indians and they weren't getting along with the people where we put them...i really couldn't argue about it because i know that my country was the first one to fuck them over and that it was our fault that the situation was happening
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i just think you're calling the kettle black
if we were talking about moving indians and they weren't getting along with the people where we put them...i really couldn't argue about it because i know that my country was the first one to fuck them over and that it was our fault that the situation was happening
aw come on you know your previous post didnt indicate this.. ;)
well about this ^new thought of yours.. hm, I dont know how they had to create a jewish state there, to protect them from nazis or what?.. nazis were done in 1947.
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i just think you're calling the kettle black
if we were talking about moving indians and they weren't getting along with the people where we put them...i really couldn't argue about it because i know that my country was the first one to fuck them over and that it was our fault that the situation was happening
aw come on you know your previous post didnt indicate this.. ;)
well about this ^new thought of yours.. hm, I dont know how they had to create a jewish state there, to protect them from nazis or what?.. nazis were done in 1947.
nazi's aren't the only anti semitic people...and this boards proves it
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^^Real talk.
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All that shit going on over there has to do with a lot more than religion. Religion is a tool these leaders use to gain support for their actions, and that divides people. Seriously, what difference does it make if a person is a Jew, a Christian, or a Muslim. For those of you making anti-Semitic or anti-Muslim comments, grow the fuck up.