West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Don Rizzle on November 11, 2004, 02:21:04 AM
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May he Rest In Piece
This will be a great loss for the palestinians losing their leader of 40 years living in the struggle fighting the israeli occupation, i hope it will all come to an end soon.
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please delete i see its already posted
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may he burn in hell....Cowardly Self Centered money hungry mothafucka who sent brainwashed teenagers to their death which resulted in even more death, Who hid billions of dollars of support money that was granted to the Palestinian people on his foreign Bank acounts instead of granting his own people with proper infrastructure, Instead of investing in education he invested in weapons and explossives, It's sad, he's probably among the worst things that ever happent to the Palestinians and they don't even seem to realise it.
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I SUPPOSE ISRAEL WAS ONE OF THE GREATEST THINGS TO HAPPEN TO THEM
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Israel is a circumstance it's not up to their choice.
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thats bollox it all stems back to jews being greedy mutha fuckers which is why everyone hates you
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thats bollox it all stems back to jews being greedy mutha fuckers which is why everyone hates you
Wtf... dude that's crossing the line man... that's just being dumb, ignorant, and unrespectful
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Put it this way... I'm an Afghan Muslim... people automatically assume that I must hate Jews just because I'm Muslim, but that's not the case... and I find what you said extremely wrong and offensive...
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Put it this way... I'm an Afghan Muslim... people automatically assume that I must hate Jews just because I'm Muslim, but that's not the case... and I find what you said extremely wrong and offensive...
Jamal,
much respect. Although I disagree with basicly 95% (at least) of your views concerning Middle East, I gotta give you props for keeping it strictly ON POINT with your arguements and maintaining respect.
Don, saying something like this only showes your bias man, it kinda discredits all your claims, Bringing it all down to your anti-Jewish views.
I remember how you used to say you were an uninvolved 3rd party, this is a complete contradiction, since it showes that you have a general bitterness towards Jews.
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Jamal,
much respect. Although I disagree with basicly 95% (at least) of your views concerning Middle East, I gotta give you props for keeping it strictly ON POINT with your arguements and maintaining respect.
Yeah, we're on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to our views concerning politics in the Middle East, but to me it's not a Muslim Vs. Jew thing.
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i am a third party now don't get me wrong i have nothing wrong with jews individually i have a very good friend who is jewish, i could even see us married or somink one day, but jews on many occassions have shown them selves to be greedy, currently their unwillingness to give back what is not theirs to keep and then have the ordasity to use the palestinian resistance as an excuse to hold back more from the palestinians. its my belief israel should be forced to give up the cocupied land and the internation community hold that view with 2 notable exceptions but instead isreal got americas green light to build a wall through villages and farms and housing seeling themselves in on occupied land, if thats not a clear message you being greedy land steeling mofos i don't know what is, if you want to protect yourselfves from terrorism as a result of your governments actions any walls should be built within the un partition plan.
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i am a third party now don't get me wrong i have nothing wrong with jews individually i have a very good friend who is jewish, i could even see us married or somink one day, but jews on many occassions have shown them selves to be greedy, currently their unwillingness to give back what is not theirs to keep and then have the ordasity to use the palestinian resistance as an excuse to hold back more from the palestinians. its my belief israel should be forced to give up the cocupied land and the internation community hold that view with 2 notable exceptions but instead isreal got americas green light to build a wall through villages and farms and housing seeling themselves in on occupied land, if thats not a clear message you being greedy land steeling mofos i don't know what is, if you want to protect yourselfves from terrorism as a result of your governments actions any walls should be built within the un partition plan.
Well, it's not like Hitler didn't have a Jewish wife. Second of all, there is nothing to give BACK....How can you give them back something that wasn't theirs to start with, The fact certain tribes occupied Land in certain districts of this Land close to a hundred years ago Doesn't make it their property,
The fact that a bunch of Mobile tribes and extanded families decided to proclaim themselves as a "Nation" just to present a political stand point doesn't make this Land their land, The fact the whole god damn world takes their side- doesn't make it their Land, The fact a bunch of terrorists are trying to force their will on peacefull population doesn't make it their Land, The fact Hundreds of terrorists were terminated (and hopefully more will be) doesn't make it their Land, The fact Israel is generous enough to even want to grant them with a state of their own on it's former territory doesn't give them a right to take over Israel's current territory....
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they been there hundreds of years thats proof enough its their enough for me. you know you sound very imperialistic
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they been there hundreds of years thats proof enough its their enough for me. you know you sound very imperialistic
there were no "they", don't u get it, Their national identity is one big hoax, U can't take some dweller from 300 years ago that was passing through this region and base their right to inherit this land on him.....Jews lived in many places around the world for hundreds of years while leadership changed and revolutions erupted, still they never were considered to be the owners of the Land, even despite the fact they had very strong national characteristics that defined them and distinguished them from the rest. The Palestinians did not even exist close to 150 years ago...
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they been there hundreds of years thats proof enough its their enough for me. you know you sound very imperialistic
there were no "they", don't u get it, Their national identity is one big hoax, U can't take some dweller from 300 years ago that was passing through this region and base their right to inherit this land on him.....Jews lived in many places around the world for hundreds of years while leadership changed and revolutions erupted, still they never were considered to be the owners of the Land, even despite the fact they had very strong national characteristics that defined them and distinguished them from the rest. The Palestinians did not even exist close to 150 years ago...
I'm going to have to say that this is complete bullshit. Palestinians didn't even exist close to 150 years ago? Israel didn't exist 60 years ago.
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they been there hundreds of years thats proof enough its their enough for me. you know you sound very imperialistic
there were no "they", don't u get it, Their national identity is one big hoax, U can't take some dweller from 300 years ago that was passing through this region and base their right to inherit this land on him.....Jews lived in many places around the world for hundreds of years while leadership changed and revolutions erupted, still they never were considered to be the owners of the Land, even despite the fact they had very strong national characteristics that defined them and distinguished them from the rest. The Palestinians did not even exist close to 150 years ago...
I'm going to have to say that this is complete bullshit. Palestinians didn't even exist close to 150 years ago? Israel didn't exist 60 years ago.
what defines The Palestinians as a nation is the Palestinian Declaration, The point is they proclaimed themselves as a nation to base their right to take over this Land (Since it's widely excepted that every nation should have a national Home), Israel is a country, and the isue is not How long it exsited, Jews on the other hand Existed for a couple of thousands years at least(as a nation, they weren't made up for the occasion).
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Jews in Palestine only made up a very small percentage of the population during the 19th century and early 20th century. American & Zionist interests forced European Jews to seek refuge in Palestine in order to boost the population. Zionists didn't want Jewish refugees to come to America, even though the U.S. Department of Labor announced that it could easily absorb 400,000 new immigrants. By 1947, this flood of Jewish settlers still only composed 30% of Palestine's population, and owned only 6% of the land. The UN plan was to grant Jews 55% of the land (when they only make up 30% of the population), and on top of that, the number of Palestinian Arabs who lived in the area designated to become the Jewish state was about 400,000 (almost as large as the number of Jews in that area).
Israeli fighters had the goal of forcing Palestinians off the land, to clear it of Arab residents in order to consolidate a Jewish presence. They managed to steal about 70% of Mandate Palestine, and forced 750,000 Palestinians into exile. Israel claimed that Palestinians fled because their leaders told them to. However, by the 1980s, with documentation in Western countries, as well as Israel, the historians of Israel were able to tell the truth. Benny Morris, an Israeli historian, stated that the refuge problem was caused by attacks by Jewish forces on Arab villages and towns, and by the inhabitants' fear of such attacks, expulsions, atrocities, and the Israeli Cabinet decision in 1948 to bar a refugee return.
So, don't come with that whole "a land with no people, for a people with no land" bullshit ideology... how can one claim it's a "land with no people", when there are hundreds of thousands of inhabitants, making up 70-95% of the total population (depending on what year you're looking at)
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Jews in Palestine only made up a very small percentage of the population during the 19th century and early 20th century. American & Zionist interests forced European Jews to seek refuge in Palestine in order to boost the population. Zionists didn't want Jewish refugees to come to America, even though the U.S. Department of Labor announced that it could easily absorb 400,000 new immigrants. By 1947, this flood of Jewish settlers still only composed 30% of Palestine's population, and owned only 6% of the land. The UN plan was to grant Jews 55% of the land (when they only make up 30% of the population), and on top of that, the number of Palestinian Arabs who lived in the area designated to become the Jewish state was about 400,000 (almost as large as the number of Jews in that area).
Israeli fighters had the goal of forcing Palestinians off the land, to clear it of Arab residents in order to consolidate a Jewish presence. They managed to steal about 70% of Mandate Palestine, and forced 750,000 Palestinians into exile. Israel claimed that Palestinians fled because their leaders told them to. However, by the 1980s, with documentation in Western countries, as well as Israel, the historians of Israel were able to tell the truth. Benny Morris, an Israeli historian, stated that the refuge problem was caused by attacks by Jewish forces on Arab villages and towns, and by the inhabitants' fear of such attacks, expulsions, atrocities, and the Israeli Cabinet decision in 1948 to bar a refugee return.
So, don't come with that whole "a land with no people, for a people with no land" bullshit ideology... how can one claim it's a "land with no people", when there are hundreds of thousands of inhabitants, making up 70-95% of the total population (depending on what year you're looking at)
The mistake is to precieve the entire mass of inhabitants as a single "nation", Before Jews started to return to their hystorical Homeland these "tribes" had diffrend interests and goals, at many times they were Hostile towards one another, They proclaimed a single national identity for themselves only to claim the Land for themselves(Why didn't they try to Claim it during the British Mandate if they wanted it so badly??) They were intimidated by this relatively small percentage of Jews that started to reapear in the Region, what were they fearing(considering the figures you yourself just presented)? and considering the entire territory was under British control for some time, Hagana and Lehi(the Zionistic Fighters) wanted to removed the Brits first and for all. The Radical right Wing of those days(to which these organizations blonged) wanted to create a Bi-National State with the Locals, not to squash them, Problem was the Locals were unwilling and more often Hostile.
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First of all, you can't go around calling it the "historical Jewish homeland" and their return to it. One reason is because no matter how far you go back in history, there was always someone there "before". The ancient Hebrews settled there after the Philistines (ancestors of Palestinians). Palestinians never left that land. They've always been there. Secondly, as previously stated, before the Zionist movement, the Jewish population in that area was less than 10%. Those European Jews never lived on that land, nor did their ancestors. A majority of European Jews are descendants of the Khazzar tribe, which converted to Judaism in the 8th century. It really makes no sense to go back thousands of years in history to try and proclaim who was there first, but even if you did, it is evident that Hebrews arrived there to find the Philistines.
You ask why Palestinians never proclaimed a national identity... you have to remember they were under Ottoman control for about 400 years. World War I changed that... Britain and France began negotiations with Arab leaders, promising them independence if they helped over throw the Ottomans. At the same time, Britain and France also made their own little secret negotiations with the Sykes-Picot Agreement dividing the Arab world between themselves. Then Britain took a third contradictory position by announcing the Balfour Declaration, promising Zionists a Jewish home. Obviously, all promises could not be met. The British weren't willing to give Palestinians an independent state because they knew that large scale Jewish immigration sponsored by European/American zionists would be brought to a stop.
By the end of the war, the U.S. was controlling about 40% of Middle Eastern oil, and they were desperate for a "stable" ally, so they turned to the backing of the creation of a Jewish state which would be dependent on America and subservient to meet all its needs and carry out the dirty work. The Palestinian population was completely ignored.
You heard of Chaplain Klausner? He was the Zionist organizer, and admitted that most of the Jewish refugees wanted to come to America, but they were only offered refuge if they went to Palestine. His exact statement was: "I am convinced that the people were forced to go to Palestine." Then, anyone that challenged Zionism was quickly labeled anti-Semitic, but do you see the irony in that? The U.S. would not allow Jews to come here, yet uses the concept of anti-Semitism for its own diplomatic/economic gain. The U.S. pressured Britain to lift all restrictions on Jewish immigration to Palestine. Zionist militias blew up eight roads and bridges in Palestine in 1946 when the British tried to bargain with them about the immigration quotas. Then a few months later, Irgun (Zionist militia) blew up the British government's wing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem... killing 80 people, Arab, Jewish and British. Clashes erupted across the land and in 1947 Britain turned the problem over to the newly created UN. The U.S. was the most powerful member of the organization; there were only 55 member states, and most of those depended on U.S. aid to rebuild their war shattered countries/economies. For example, the Philippines voted against the partition and creation of a Jewish state. Guess what happened to the diplomat who spoke out in the General Assembly? He was recalled. The same thing happened to the delegate from Siam (Thailand).
Arabs and Jews continued fighting and in 1948 Israel just declared its independence. With the U.S. recognition of that theft of land, there was nothing anyone could do about it.
Could you imagine Assyrians rising up and wanting half of Iraq's land as their own nation?
By the way, if you know anything about the President Wilson (League of Nations/14 Points), you'd know about something called "Self-Determination".
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i'd like to see how i geezy responds to that
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First of all, you can't go around calling it the "historical Jewish homeland" and their return to it.
You didnt need to complete the post. This reply is enought. I agree with you.
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First of all, you can't go around calling it the "historical Jewish homeland" and their return to it. One reason is because no matter how far you go back in history, there was always someone there "before". The ancient Hebrews settled there after the Philistines (ancestors of Palestinians). Palestinians never left that land. They've always been there. Secondly, as previously stated, before the Zionist movement, the Jewish population in that area was less than 10%. Those European Jews never lived on that land, nor did their ancestors. A majority of European Jews are descendants of the Khazzar tribe, which converted to Judaism in the 8th century. It really makes no sense to go back thousands of years in history to try and proclaim who was there first, but even if you did, it is evident that Hebrews arrived there to find the Philistines.
You ask why Palestinians never proclaimed a national identity... you have to remember they were under Ottoman control for about 400 years. World War I changed that... Britain and France began negotiations with Arab leaders, promising them independence if they helped over throw the Ottomans. At the same time, Britain and France also made their own little secret negotiations with the Sykes-Picot Agreement dividing the Arab world between themselves. Then Britain took a third contradictory position by announcing the Balfour Declaration, promising Zionists a Jewish home. Obviously, all promises could not be met. The British weren't willing to give Palestinians an independent state because they knew that large scale Jewish immigration sponsored by European/American zionists would be brought to a stop.
By the end of the war, the U.S. was controlling about 40% of Middle Eastern oil, and they were desperate for a "stable" ally, so they turned to the backing of the creation of a Jewish state which would be dependent on America and subservient to meet all its needs and carry out the dirty work. The Palestinian population was completely ignored.
You heard of Chaplain Klausner? He was the Zionist organizer, and admitted that most of the Jewish refugees wanted to come to America, but they were only offered refuge if they went to Palestine. His exact statement was: "I am convinced that the people were forced to go to Palestine." Then, anyone that challenged Zionism was quickly labeled anti-Semitic, but do you see the irony in that? The U.S. would not allow Jews to come here, yet uses the concept of anti-Semitism for its own diplomatic/economic gain. The U.S. pressured Britain to lift all restrictions on Jewish immigration to Palestine. Zionist militias blew up eight roads and bridges in Palestine in 1946 when the British tried to bargain with them about the immigration quotas. Then a few months later, Irgun (Zionist militia) blew up the British government's wing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem... killing 80 people, Arab, Jewish and British. Clashes erupted across the land and in 1947 Britain turned the problem over to the newly created UN. The U.S. was the most powerful member of the organization; there were only 55 member states, and most of those depended on U.S. aid to rebuild their war shattered countries/economies. For example, the Philippines voted against the partition and creation of a Jewish state. Guess what happened to the diplomat who spoke out in the General Assembly? He was recalled. The same thing happened to the delegate from Siam (Thailand).
Arabs and Jews continued fighting and in 1948 Israel just declared its independence. With the U.S. recognition of that theft of land, there was nothing anyone could do about it.
Could you imagine Assyrians rising up and wanting half of Iraq's land as their own nation?
By the way, if you know anything about the President Wilson (League of Nations/14 Points), you'd know about something called "Self-Determination".
A very small percentage of east-European Jews are descendants of the Khazzar, Jew Converts that Originated from Khazzar are well aware of their heritage,plus, converted Jews hold a differened status according to the Galaha so tracing them is not a problem, Most European Jews are products of exile(descendants of Israel), As for Kneinites and Hebrews occuping this Land before Abraham arrived->True, But the Land was given to Abraham,
PHillistines are not ancestors of the Palestinians, They did inherit the sounding alike Name but that doesn't make them their ancestors, second of all, the Philistines weren't here before Jews you know what Philistine means in Hebrew ?! it originates in Plishtim(this is how it reads in the Torah) Plishtim is from Plisha (-Invasion), Philistines are Invadors, Torah states they Originated somwhere around todays Itally and Sailed to the east to take over the Land...I think you're mistaking the Philitines for Kneinites(the Land was called Kanaan in the Torah), But the Palestinians are anscestors of neither, they are a mixture of Arab Peninsula Arabs and Locals from Northern Africa. I think you've been getting Info from Palestinian "self-determination" sites...
So, what if they were under Ottoman control for about 400 years so were the rest of the Arabs of the erea? (Jews were exiled for 2000 years yet they were the ones to start fighting for this Land), Leaders of Arab nations did gain land due to those Negotiations: Jordan, Egypt, Syria....Where were the Palestinians? why didn't they gain Land like the rest of the Arab parties? I'll tell you why, Because they had no Identity, They were refugees way before Israel proclaimed it's formal independence, They had no leadership since they weren't a singular mass...They proclaimed their national identity only to Claim their piece of the pie.
I forgot to coment on Chaplain Clausner, With the amount of Jews that fleed to USA after WW2 I would say his convictions were\are hystoriclly incorect.
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So, what if they were under Ottoman control for about 400 years so were the rest of the Arabs of the erea? (Jews were exiled for 2000 years yet they were the ones to start fighting for this Land), Leaders of Arab nations did gain land due to those Negotiations: Jordan, Egypt, Syria....Where were the Palestinians? why didn't they gain Land like the rest of the Arab parties? I'll tell you why, Because they had no Identity, They were refugees way before Israel proclaimed it's formal independence, They had no leadership since they weren't a singular mass...They proclaimed their national identity only to Claim their piece of the pie.
I forgot to coment on Chaplain Clausner, With the amount of Jews that fleed to USA after the WW2 I would say his convictions were hystoriclly incorect.
I already answered that in my post:
You ask why Palestinians never proclaimed a national identity... you have to remember they were under Ottoman control for about 400 years. World War I changed that... Britain and France began negotiations with Arab leaders, promising them independence if they helped over throw the Ottomans. At the same time, Britain and France also made their own little secret negotiations with the Sykes-Picot Agreement dividing the Arab world between themselves. Then Britain took a third contradictory position by announcing the Balfour Declaration, promising Zionists a Jewish home. Obviously, all promises could not be met. The British weren't willing to give Palestinians an independent state because they knew that large scale Jewish immigration sponsored by European/American zionists would be brought to a stop.
By the way, I didn't get any of my information from any website at all. I read books.
In addition, if you don't hold the statements made by an ISRAELI HISTORIAN credible, and feel that you know more about the situation than he does, then what do you consider a credible source? The Israeli government's website?
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-The historic Philistines were a people that inhabited the southern coast of Canaan around the time of the arrival of the Israelites.
-Philistia the name of the Philistine Kingdoms became "Palestine" under the Romans
This is out of an encyclopedia...
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-The historic Philistines were a people that inhabited the southern coast of Canaan around the time of the arrival of the Israelites.
-Philistia the name of the Philistine Kingdoms became "Palestine" under the Romans
This is out of an encyclopedia... I'm assuming that it's biased in your opinion...
Why would it call them "Invadors" if they Inhabited Knaan before Abraham?....If this is from an encyclopedia than it's an interesting one,
The term Palestinian Originated from Philistines but the people to whom it refered were diffrened, Just like Colombus with "Indians",
during one of the Mandates the Soldiers needed a Name for the Locals so they took out the first name out of the bible....
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Yeah, it's an interesting encyclopedia
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So, what if they were under Ottoman control for about 400 years so were the rest of the Arabs of the erea? (Jews were exiled for 2000 years yet they were the ones to start fighting for this Land), Leaders of Arab nations did gain land due to those Negotiations: Jordan, Egypt, Syria....Where were the Palestinians? why didn't they gain Land like the rest of the Arab parties? I'll tell you why, Because they had no Identity, They were refugees way before Israel proclaimed it's formal independence, They had no leadership since they weren't a singular mass...They proclaimed their national identity only to Claim their piece of the pie.
I forgot to coment on Chaplain Clausner, With the amount of Jews that fleed to USA after the WW2 I would say his convictions were hystoriclly incorect.
I already answered that in my post:
You ask why Palestinians never proclaimed a national identity... you have to remember they were under Ottoman control for about 400 years. World War I changed that... Britain and France began negotiations with Arab leaders, promising them independence if they helped over throw the Ottomans. At the same time, Britain and France also made their own little secret negotiations with the Sykes-Picot Agreement dividing the Arab world between themselves. Then Britain took a third contradictory position by announcing the Balfour Declaration, promising Zionists a Jewish home. Obviously, all promises could not be met. The British weren't willing to give Palestinians an independent state because they knew that large scale Jewish immigration sponsored by European/American zionists would be brought to a stop.
By the way, I didn't get any of my information from any website at all. I read books.
In addition, if you don't hold the statements made by an ISRAELI HISTORIAN credible, and feel that you know more about the situation than he does, then what do you consider a credible source? The Israeli government's website?
Historions have opinions and diffrences on certain isues, What I do know for a fact is that large numbers of Jews fleed to USA after WW2 and this alone already discredits his statement.
p.s So suddenly The Birts didn't want the Jewish imigration to stop? The Jewish Irguns terrorised the Brits, They had no interest in granting Jews with a state...At least the Palestinians didn't fight them.
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Yes, Jews did come to the U.S.
He didn't say that no Jews came here; he stated that at the time, in Europe, a large number of Jews were only offered refuge if they went to Palestine.,
By the way, Klausner was a ZIONIST ORGANIZER, and this is what he told the American Jewish Congress.
Benny Morris, the ISRAELI HISTORIAN, is the one who said that the refuge problem was caused by attacks by Jewish forces on Arab villages. (contradictory to the bullshit the Israeli government made up decades before saying that the Arab leaders told the people to flee).
LOL, seriously, look at the sources in capital letters.... if you consider that "bias" then there's no point in arguing with you because God forbid I use an Arab/Palestinian source... we'd have PROPAGANDA typed all over the thread...
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p.s So suddenly The Birts didn't want the Jewish imigration to stop? The Jewish Irguns terrorised the Brits, They had no interest in granting Jews with a state...At least the Palestinians didn't fight them.
You obviously aren't as well informed about the situation. Let me break it down for you...
After World War I, Britain and France pretty much split the Arab world and took a share (Sykes-Picot Agreement). The British offered Arab leaders independent states in exchange for an Arab led revolt against the Ottomans. At the same time the British announced the Balfour Declaration, promising Zionists a Jewish state. Around the time of World War II, Britain seeked assistance from the Arab armies in the region, and in 1939 issued a White Paper, which put quotas on Jewish immigrants to Palestine. The war effort became more important to the British than the creation of a Jewish state, and Zionists got angry because they knew that in order for them to have their Jewish state, there would have to be extensive immigration to increase the small Jewish community. So the Zionists needed a new patron of their state. With America controlling more and more oil in the region, it needed stability in the region. It needed a stable ally. With all these new assets, America felt that a U.S. oriented, European populated Jewish state in Palestine, a more trustworthy, stable ally was necessary. When Truman asked the British to allow an extra 100,000 of Jewish refugees, the British went to bargain with the Zionists, offering them this wave of refugees if the Zionists disarm. The Zionists responded by blowing up all that shit, and in 1947 Britain turned the problem over to the UN. The U.S. was the most powerful member of the organization; there were only 55 member states, and most of those depended on U.S. aid to rebuild their war shattered countries/economies. For example, the Philippines voted against the partition and creation of a Jewish state. Guess what happened to the diplomat who spoke out in the General Assembly? He was recalled. The same thing happened to the delegate from Siam (Thailand). And we have the birth of Israel.
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Yes, Jews did come to the U.S.
He didn't say that no Jews came here; he stated that at the time, in Europe, a large number of Jews were only offered refuge if they went to Palestine.,
By the way, Klausner was a ZIONIST ORGANIZER, and this is what he told the American Jewish Congress.
Benny Morris, the ISRAELI HISTORIAN, is the one who said that the refuge problem was caused by attacks by Jewish forces on Arab villages. (contradictory to the bullshit the Israeli government made up decades before saying that the Arab leaders told the people to flee).
LOL, seriously, look at the sources in capital letters.... if you consider that "bias" then there's no point in arguing with you because God forbid I use an Arab/Palestinian source... we'd have PROPAGANDA typed all over the thread...
Clausner was speculating, I just think that if all Jews that fleed to USA would be forced to come to Israel than the whole Isue of the Jewish Majority could be solved.
Atacks of Jewish Irguns on Arab Villages for no reason had no practicall point at the time, especially when the ideology of the Irguns was originally to create a bi-national state with the Palestinians....If there was something to that effect it could have only been retaliation due to Local conflicts.
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p.s So suddenly The Birts didn't want the Jewish imigration to stop? The Jewish Irguns terrorised the Brits, They had no interest in granting Jews with a state...At least the Palestinians didn't fight them.
You obviously aren't as well informed about the situation. Let me break it down for you...
The war effort became more important to the British than the creation of a Jewish state, and Zionists got angry because they knew that in order for them to have their Jewish state, there would have to be extensive immigration to increase the small Jewish community.
lol....Yea, sure, this is a complete contradiction to what I just said.....
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Once again, you're wrong.
In 1919, Wilson dispatched an American delegation, the King-Crane Commission to Palestine.
This is what they came back with: "in the Commission's conferences with the Jewish representatives... the Zionists looked forward to practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine"
Prior to that, they mentioned that they were predisposed to favor the Zionist movement, but once they were in Palestine and realized what the situation was actually like and got to see the facts, they disagreed with the plan of unlimited immigration of European Jews into Palestine. Only when we acquired all that oil did we change our stance on that.
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p.s So suddenly The Birts didn't want the Jewish imigration to stop? The Jewish Irguns terrorised the Brits, They had no interest in granting Jews with a state...At least the Palestinians didn't fight them.
You obviously aren't as well informed about the situation. Let me break it down for you...
The war effort became more important to the British than the creation of a Jewish state, and Zionists got angry because they knew that in order for them to have their Jewish state, there would have to be extensive immigration to increase the small Jewish community.
lol....Yea, sure, this is a complete contradiction to what I said.....
If you read an entire post for once, you may be able to understand things better and figure shit out. The British favored the creation of a Jewish state up until World War II, at which point they needed Arab support in the war. That's when they put a limit on the number of Jews that could immigrate to Palestine. The Zionists got angry and retaliated and eventually the U.S. sided with them for its own economic interests. I really don't see why this is so hard for you to grasp.
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p.s So suddenly The Birts didn't want the Jewish imigration to stop? The Jewish Irguns terrorised the Brits, They had no interest in granting Jews with a state...At least the Palestinians didn't fight them.
You obviously aren't as well informed about the situation. Let me break it down for you...
The war effort became more important to the British than the creation of a Jewish state, and Zionists got angry because they knew that in order for them to have their Jewish state, there would have to be extensive immigration to increase the small Jewish community.
lol....Yea, sure, this is a complete contradiction to what I said.....
If you read an entire post for once, you may be able to understand things better and figure shit out. The British favored the creation of a Jewish state up until World War II, at which point they needed Arab support in the war. That's when they put a limit on the number of Jews that could immigrate to Palestine. The Zionists got angry and retaliated and eventually the U.S. sided with them for its own economic interests. I really don't see why this is so hard for you to grasp.
lol....I read everything man,
Still this does not contradict what I was saying, you yourself stated that the War became more important to them than the creation of the Jewish state.
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Liberals are some flower power motherfuckers. I classify most of the idiots on this topic as liberals, just to clarify. Yall aren't interested in the results, you're only interested in the methods, or the intent. Lemme give you an example.
A Man like Yassir Arafat, leading the PLO blows up fucking planes and everything else killing innocents and basically helps found the entire modern day terrorist movement, which is now causing problems all over the world, and recently killed 3000 Americans in one day. However, since Arafat 'denounced' terrorism later in his life, he's to be applauded as a leader for his people.
FUCK THAT. This guy is scum, he's burning in hell right now for those people he killed with those fucking bombs, I'm not forgiving him for it, and he's not reformed in my eyes. Jeffrey Dahmer died a fucking murderer. Charles Manson will die a fucking murderer. Arafat already died a fucking terrorist, the only thing I regret is that they didn't dump his body in the fucking mud like they did the Ayatollah Khomeni's.
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Liberals are some flower power motherfuckers. I classify most of the idiots on this topic as liberals, just to clarify. Yall aren't interested in the results, you're only interested in the methods, or the intent. Lemme give you an example.
A Man like Yassir Arafat, leading the PLO blows up fucking planes and everything else killing innocents and basically helps found the entire modern day terrorist movement, which is now causing problems all over the world, and recently killed 3000 Americans in one day. However, since Arafat 'denounced' terrorism later in his life, he's to be applauded as a leader for his people.
FUCK THAT. This guy is scum, he's burning in hell right now for those people he killed with those fucking bombs, I'm not forgiving him for it, and he's not reformed in my eyes. Jeffrey Dahmer died a fucking murderer. Charles Manson will die a fucking murderer. Arafat already died a fucking terrorist, the only thing I regret is that they didn't dump his body in the fucking mud like they did the Ayatollah Khomeni's.
Isn't it "Mormon-Fuck-Your-Sibling-Day" ?
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lol....I read everything man,
Still this does not contradict what I was saying, you yourself stated that the War became more important to them than the creation of the Jewish state.
Ok, and?
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lol....I read everything man,
Still this does not contradict what I was saying, you yourself stated that the War became more important to them than the creation of the Jewish state.
Ok, and?
and?...While Brits needed Arab support why didn't the Palestinians use those times to claim their "national Home", their own state.....
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lol....I read everything man,
Still this does not contradict what I was saying, you yourself stated that the War became more important to them than the creation of the Jewish state.
Ok, and?
and?...While Brits needed Arab support why didn't the Palestinians use those times to claim their "national Home" their own state.....
You just said you read the entire post. Read the part where Britain turned the problem over to the UN.
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lol....I read everything man,
Still this does not contradict what I was saying, you yourself stated that the War became more important to them than the creation of the Jewish state.
Ok, and?
and?...While Brits needed Arab support why didn't the Palestinians use those times to claim their "national Home" their own state.....
You just said you read the entire post. Read the part where Britain turned the problem over to the UN.
u seem to miss the point, it's not about outsider factors, it's about their own motivation, about what they were doing to solidify their rights to inherit the Land....They were doing nothing, As soon as they realised Jews were to proclaim a state of their own they rushed to proclaim themselves as a rightworthy nation that doesn not recognize Israel's right for existance.
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Motivation? LOL you've got to be fuckin' kidding me
What the fuck can a group of poor ass camel jockeys do against U.S./British forces? Those people were more concerned with having food on their table all their lives... they were never concerned about the land because they never expected thousands of EUROPEANS to invade and steal it from them
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Motivation? LOL you've got to be fuckin' kidding me
What the fuck can a group of poor ass camel jockeys do against U.S./British forces? Those people were more concerned with having food on their table all their lives... they were never concerned about the land because they never expected thousands of EUROPEANS to invade and steal it from them
Never expected....now you have got to be kidden', man they have lived for 400 years under foreign mandates, never expected? They knew nothing but it....And they were OK with that occupation.
Poor camel jockeys??!....There were enough influential land owning sheihs, Jews were buying Land from many of them.
What about poor Haulacaust refugees fighting for their rights?
The only reason to why they didn't claim shit was because they didn't have a single indentity, just like I was saying all day long, They were in the form of many parties and tribes with differend backgrounds with no Monolithic National agenda up untill the time they felt intimidated enough.
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Motivation? LOL you've got to be fuckin' kidding me
What the fuck can a group of poor ass camel jockeys do against U.S./British forces? Those people were more concerned with having food on their table all their lives... they were never concerned about the land because they never expected thousands of EUROPEANS to invade and steal it from them
Never expected....now you have got to be kidden', man they have lived for 400 years under foreign mandates, never expected? They knew nothing but it....And they were OK with that occupation.
Poor camel jockeys??!....There were enough influential land owning sheihs, Jews were buying Land from many of them.
What about poor Haulacaust refugees fighting for their rights?
They lived under Ottoman control for 400 years. Do you seriously think they could just go and ask "Hey, we were kinda wondering... could we have our own country?"
Then after World War I, Britain refused to even consider a Palestinian state. They wouldn't have it.
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Motivation? LOL you've got to be fuckin' kidding me
What the fuck can a group of poor ass camel jockeys do against U.S./British forces? Those people were more concerned with having food on their table all their lives... they were never concerned about the land because they never expected thousands of EUROPEANS to invade and steal it from them
Never expected....now you have got to be kidden', man they have lived for 400 years under foreign mandates, never expected? They knew nothing but it....And they were OK with that occupation.
Poor camel jockeys??!....There were enough influential land owning sheihs, Jews were buying Land from many of them.
What about poor Haulacaust refugees fighting for their rights?
They lived under Ottoman control for 400 years. Do you seriously think they could just go and ask "Hey, we were kinda wondering... could we have our own country?"
Then after World War I, Britain refused to even consider a Palestinian state. They wouldn't have it.
and than suddenly it erupted?!! oh please...
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Holocaust refugees?
As much as I sympathize with them, they had no claim to land in Palestine. They were European. If the U.S. wanted Jews to have their own land so bad, why not slice them off a piece of land here? Alaska seems like a fit choice.
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Suddenly erupted? No.
Like you said, as soon as they saw EUROPEAN JEWS (who have no claim to the land) flood the area with waves upon waves of immigrants, they were like "Shit, they're gonna steal our land, we better lay claim to it." They had no power, and the EUROPEAN JEWS were successful in stealing the land.
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Holocaust refugees?
As much as I sympathize with them, they had no claim to land in Palestine. They were European. If the U.S. wanted Jews to have their own land so bad, why not slice them off a piece of land here? Alaska seems like a fit choice.
Well I agree that USA had it's own interest but Creating a Jewish State on The Historical Land oF Israel seems very Logical....Plus, WW2 did prove that those European Jews were nowhere near European(They may have lived there but they didn't belong), Have you seen nearly as many non Jewish Europeans in them death camps?
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Suddenly erupted? No.
Like you said, as soon as they saw EUROPEAN JEWS (who have no claim to the land) flood the area with waves upon waves of immigrants, they were like "Shit, they're gonna steal our land, we better lay claim to it." They had no power, and the EUROPEAN JEWS were successful in stealing the land.
and they didn't get this feeling up untill the fourth century of mandates?!...lol...may be since those mandates had so much right to exist....
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The Historical Land oF Israel
:)
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The Historical Land oF Israel
:)
It would suit you better if I refered to it as The Biblical Land Of Israel?
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and they didn't get this feeling up untill the fourth century of mandates?!...lol...may be since those mandates had so much right to exist....
Palestine became part of the Ottoman Empire and remained so for 400 years. What really do you expect them to have done? Fight and defeat the Ottoman EMPIRE? When World WarI ended, and the British took control, the Palestinians wanted their own country, but Britain wouldn't give it to them. I don't know why you keep saying "how come they didn't want it before". It's like Native Americans fighting our government for independence.
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The Historical Land oF Israel
:)
It would suit you better if I refered to it as The Biblical Land Of Israel?
LOL please tell me you're not gonna come with that whole "God gave us the land" because then I can say "he took that shit right back in the New Testament".... not everybody shares your faith, so just because you dismiss the New Testament, doesn't mean everyone else does... It's funny when Jews try to use that as an argument for their right to the land, just because THEY believe in ONLY the Old Testament.
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and they didn't get this feeling up untill the fourth century of mandates?!...lol...may be since those mandates had so much right to exist....
Palestine became part of the Ottoman Empire and remained so for 400 years. What really do you expect them to have done? Fight and defeat the Ottoman EMPIRE? When World WarI ended, and the British took control, the Palestinians wanted their own country, but Britain wouldn't give it to them. I don't know why you keep saying "how come they didn't want it before". It's like Native Americans fighting our government for independence.
But now that Israel exit's it's not like Native Americans fighting your government for independence?....They could have at least done what they're doing now, but did they?-NO....that's because they didn't exist in the form in which they exist today....They weren't a nation.
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I have a paper here that states you have to give me all your money. Will you do it now please? I mean, if you can take land cause a book says it's yours, how wont you give me all you own because it is written that it belongs to me?
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But now that Israel exit's it's not like Native Americans fighting your government for independence?....They could have at least done what they're doing now, but did they?-NO....that's because they didn't exist in the form in which they exist today....They weren't a nation.
I take it you don't know anything about the concept of SELF-DETERMINATION
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I have a paper here that states you have to give me all your money. Will you do it now please? I mean, if you can take land cause a book says it's yours, how wont you give me all you own because it is written that it belongs to me?
LMAO
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The Historical Land oF Israel
:)
It would suit you better if I refered to it as The Biblical Land Of Israel?
LOL please tell me you're not gonna come with that whole "God gave us the land" because then I can say "he took that shit right back in the New Testament".... not everybody shares your faith, so just because you dismiss the New Testament, doesn't mean everyone else does... It's funny when Jews try to use that as an argument for their right to the land, just because THEY believe in ONLY the Old Testament.
Well he DID, but Im not gonna base my arguement on it, Although you shell know it when the time comes.
I wouldn't wanna offened anyone's faith, God gave us choice so anyone has the right to believe whatever he wants, after all, according to Kabalah The Eternal Light will eventually force it's will on everything, We as humans decide how hard will it be for every and each one of us to unite with it.
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But now that Israel exit's it's not like Native Americans fighting your government for independence?....They could have at least done what they're doing now, but did they?-NO....that's because they didn't exist in the form in which they exist today....They weren't a nation.
I take it you don't know anything about the concept of SELF-DETERMINATION
I'd like to see how you inflict it , and how you gonna base their right to inherit the Land on it.
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I have a paper here that states you have to give me all your money. Will you do it now please? I mean, if you can take land cause a book says it's yours, how wont you give me all you own because it is written that it belongs to me?
Are you religious?
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I have a paper here that states you have to give me all your money. Will you do it now please? I mean, if you can take land cause a book says it's yours, how wont you give me all you own because it is written that it belongs to me?
Are you religious?
People in Africa and America were religious too, before somebody killed them and reduced them to slaves...
They believe their lands were a gift from heaven, and nobody had the rights to "destruct" them.
Let's tell "Indians" to conquire their original promised land too! ::)
C'mon man, religious has nothing to do with it. It's all about the benjamins..
Are you religious? Then share the breed and stop killing other people.
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I have a paper here that states you have to give me all your money. Will you do it now please? I mean, if you can take land cause a book says it's yours, how wont you give me all you own because it is written that it belongs to me?
Well; if you're man enough to come take it from me (like the U.N. and Israel did) sure, you can have it. Now; if palestine is man enough to come take the land; let them come get it.
Land is occupied after wars. We killed every fucking indian around to make the U.S. We took the land that Israel now occupies by threat of death and war, and gave it to them. Maybe you dont' like it, but it's the truth. The british empire was founded on blood, so was EVERY empire. Bitch Bitch Bitch about how unfair it is that the palestinians don't have jerusalem, but that's WAR. *ALL countries are founded that way... including yours.
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I have a paper here that states you have to give me all your money. Will you do it now please? I mean, if you can take land cause a book says it's yours, how wont you give me all you own because it is written that it belongs to me?
Well; if you're man enough to come take it from me (like the U.N. and Israel did) sure, you can have it. Now; if palestine is man enough to come take the land; let them come get it.
Land is occupied after wars. We killed every fucking indian around to make the U.S. We took the land that Israel now occupies by threat of death and war, and gave it to them. Maybe you dont' like it, but it's the truth. The british empire was founded on blood, so was EVERY empire. Bitch Bitch Bitch about how unfair it is that the palestinians don't have jerusalem, but that's WAR. *ALL countries are founded that way... including yours.
it wasn't even in the UN juristiction to divide up countries then