West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Don Rizzle on December 03, 2004, 04:50:07 AM
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Row over Israel border violinist
The Israeli army has cleared soldiers at a West Bank checkpoint of forcing a Palestinian man to play his violin.
But 28-year-old Wissam Tayem rejected the findings, saying he was told by the soldiers to "play something sad".
Human rights monitors who filmed the incident have also denied army claims that they back its version of events.
The footage has sparked a debate in Israel, where some media compared the army's conduct to Nazi coercion of Jewish musicians during the Holocaust.
Concentration camp prisoners were forced to perform classical music for their Nazi guards in the World War II.
The human rights group's film of the West Bank incident shows Mr Tayem playing to an audience of border guards and waiting Palestinians as his documents are checked.
'Not disrespectful'
An Israeli army investigation concluded Mr Tayem "opened the case and started to play the violin of his own volition".
"Several moments later, the Palestinian was asked by the liaison officer to stop playing," it said.
The army report added that the officer in charge of the checkpoint had been praised for his work both by his superiors and by local Palestinians.
The army faulted the soldiers for having failed to stop Mr Tayem from playing sooner, but said their actions were not disrespectful or humiliating.
When the incident came to light last week, the Israeli army said its soldiers had asked the Palestinian man to play his instrument to show it did not contain weapons or explosives.
Explosives
Mr Tayem has said he was humiliated at the checkpoint and the army's accounts do not make sense.
"They asked me to open the case and show them the instrument, which was fine by me," he told Israeli newspaper Haaretz.
"But then they asked me to play. I did not offer to play," he said.
He added that the soldiers would have asked him to step back and play his violin at a distance if they feared it might contain explosives.
Volunteer claims
Film footage of the checkpoint violin recital was shot on 9 November by Horit Herman Peled, a volunteer with women's human rights group, Machsom Watch, which monitors the conduct of Israeli troops.
In its report released on Tuesday, the Israeli army said another volunteer present at the checkpoint supported their claim that Mr Tayem was not forced to play his instrument, Haaretz reports.
However, the volunteer later told Haaretz that she and her colleagues were unable to hear the exchange between Mr Tayem and the border guards and therefore had "no reason to prefer [the army's] version of events over his".
Israel says its border checkpoints are designed to prevent Palestinian suicide bombers and militants from entering its territory.
Palestinians and rights groups say the border controls impose dangerous and humiliating restrictions on their freedom of movement, and have crippled their economy.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/world/middle_east/4058677.stm
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Israel is the new Nazi Germany
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Israel is the new Nazi Germany
::)
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Israel is the new Nazi Germany
::)
funny thing is, its true.
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Fuckin' retards.....How in the fuck can you possibly make that comparison? I would fault Israel of one thing though--being too fucking nice! They've put up with Palestine's bullshit bombings long enough. If Isreal wanted to, they could wipe all those morons out in a matter of minutes. I wish they would.
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^ You stupid cracka ass cracka. dont speak on things you dont know. For example, Tech doesnt talk about trailer parks, dysfunctional parents, whore sisters and wack ass processed food because Tech is not a piece of trash cracka like you. So siiiin, this is your cue to bounce out the thread.
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^ You stupid cracka ass cracka. dont speak on things you dont know. For example, Tech doesnt talk about trailer parks, dysfunctional parents, whore sisters and wack ass processed food because Tech is not a piece of trash cracka like you. So siiiin, this is your cue to bounce out the thread.
Sorry, Tech, but i gotta say this. Talkin about yourself in the third person really makes you look fuckin stupid. I got nothin personal against you, you often make very valid points, but the third-person thing really takes away a lot from intelligent comments
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Posted on: Today at 12:46:14 AMPosted by: _That_Cracka_J
Insert Quote
Fuckin' retards.....How in the fuck can you possibly make that comparison? I would fault Israel of one thing though--being too fucking nice! They've put up with Palestine's bullshit bombings long enough. If Isreal wanted to, they could wipe all those morons out in a matter of minutes. I wish they would.
israel occupies palestine and oppresses palestinians, and you come to the conclusion palestinians are to blame?? Your such a fucking retard!
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^ You stupid cracka ass cracka. dont speak on things you dont know. For example, Tech doesnt talk about trailer parks, dysfunctional parents, whore sisters and wack ass processed food because Tech is not a piece of trash cracka like you. So siiiin, this is your cue to bounce out the thread.
Sorry, Tech, but i gotta say this. Talkin about yourself in the third person really makes you look fuckin stupid. I got nothin personal against you, you often make very valid points, but the third-person thing really takes away a lot from intelligent comments
I disagree, your taking him too serious, he does it for humor, and I gotta admit, its pretty damn funny, lol
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^ You stupid cracka ass cracka. dont speak on things you dont know. For example, Tech doesnt talk about trailer parks, dysfunctional parents, whore sisters and wack ass processed food because Tech is not a piece of trash cracka like you. So siiiin, this is your cue to bounce out the thread.
Sorry, Tech, but i gotta say this. Talkin about yourself in the third person really makes you look fuckin stupid. I got nothin personal against you, you often make very valid points, but the third-person thing really takes away a lot from intelligent comments
You get annoyed by people insulting others online, you get annoyed by someone talking in the third person online.... I really think you need to pull whatever is up your ass out of there...
Let me annoy you... Jamal says you're an ugly hairmenian who happens to lack intelligence.
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^ You stupid cracka ass cracka. dont speak on things you dont know. For example, Tech doesnt talk about trailer parks, dysfunctional parents, whore sisters and wack ass processed food because Tech is not a piece of trash cracka like you. So siiiin, this is your cue to bounce out the thread.
Sorry, Tech, but i gotta say this. Talkin about yourself in the third person really makes you look fuckin stupid. I got nothin personal against you, you often make very valid points, but the third-person thing really takes away a lot from intelligent comments
I disagree, your taking him too serious, he does it for humor, and I gotta admit, its pretty damn funny, lol
DING DING DING DING. The essence of a Tech post summarized in one sentence. Im ahead of my time.
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Posted on: Today at 12:46:14 AMPosted by: _That_Cracka_J
Insert Quote
Fuckin' retards.....How in the fuck can you possibly make that comparison? I would fault Israel of one thing though--being too fucking nice! They've put up with Palestine's bullshit bombings long enough. If Isreal wanted to, they could wipe all those morons out in a matter of minutes. I wish they would.
israel occupies palestine and oppresses palestinians, and you come to the conclusion palestinians are to blame?? Your such a fucking retard!
Oh, okay....the suicide bombings are perfectly okay then, since they OPPRESS the Palestinians ;) Is that the reason Palestinians are uncivilized?
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Posted on: Today at 12:46:14 AMPosted by: _That_Cracka_J
Insert Quote
Fuckin' retards.....How in the fuck can you possibly make that comparison? I would fault Israel of one thing though--being too fucking nice! They've put up with Palestine's bullshit bombings long enough. If Isreal wanted to, they could wipe all those morons out in a matter of minutes. I wish they would.
israel occupies palestine and oppresses palestinians, and you come to the conclusion palestinians are to blame?? Your such a fucking retard!
Oh, since we are talking about being retarded, you are incorrect in you grammar bitch. It should be you're because you are really saying "you are" not "your (possessive)". YOU'RE welcome ;D
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Posted on: Today at 12:46:14 AMPosted by: _That_Cracka_J
Insert Quote
Fuckin' retards.....How in the fuck can you possibly make that comparison? I would fault Israel of one thing though--being too fucking nice! They've put up with Palestine's bullshit bombings long enough. If Isreal wanted to, they could wipe all those morons out in a matter of minutes. I wish they would.
israel occupies palestine and oppresses palestinians, and you come to the conclusion palestinians are to blame?? Your such a fucking retard!
Oh, since we are talking about being retarded, you are incorrect in you grammar bitch. It should be you're because you are really saying "you are" not "your (possessive)". YOU'RE welcome ;D
PS....I also meant to bold the "you" in "you grammar" in case you were gonna try to call me on that one. ;D
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Ok heres a little history lesson, now tell me you wouldn't be pissed off if this happenned to your country.... 55 years ago the jews steal half your country with western support, a couple of years later they invade and take over the rest of your country, they move natives out to make way for jewish settlements. You can't complain to the UN because america will veto any resolution critising israel or trying to place sanctions apon them. Then you have military support, since palestine was a german colony which was then taken over on 20 year mandate by the british in WW1 they had no official army, but Israel recieves billions of dollars from america every year in militatry aid, and those lovely french helped israel become the worlds 4th largest nuclear power (which the israeli still deny, so they havn't signed up to the non proliferation treaty and are not subject to sanctions). Israel has turned what is left of palestine into a virtual prison, with all the check points and restrictions they have imposed. they have also created many refugees (1.3 million in Gazaa alone) and they are often on the new buldozing down villages, schools, homes, farms etc. And how about the latst peace process Israel refused to negotiate its sponsors and the palestinian authority, they built a wall built an illegal wall on occupied land to cement its ownership in jewish hands perminantly. Bush maybe talking of a viable palestinian state, but this last year israel have been talking about blocking palestinian state hood and if any state were to remain it would be full of military check points and would not be viable with the current negotiators. I could easily go on but i'm at work and have to get on with some work, read the content and fuck grammer.
ps ppl who pick at other peoples grammer on an informal message board are one of the following:
1) an annoying twat
2) too stupid to understand the subject
3) or just plain ingnorant and unwilling to accept the truth
next time come back with a constructive argument on the subject or don't join the discussion!
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Ok heres a little history lesson, now tell me you wouldn't be pissed off if this happenned to your country.... 55 years ago the jews steal half your country with western support, a couple of years later they invade and take over the rest of your country, they move natives out to make way for jewish settlements. You can't complain to the UN because america will veto any resolution critising israel or trying to place sanctions apon them. Then you have military support, since palestine was a german colony which was then taken over on 20 year mandate by the british in WW1 they had no official army, but Israel recieves billions of dollars from america every year in militatry aid, and those lovely french helped israel become the worlds 4th largest nuclear power (which the israeli still deny, so they havn't signed up to the non proliferation treaty and are not subject to sanctions). Israel has turned what is left of palestine into a virtual prison, with all the check points and restrictions they have imposed. they have also created many refugees (1.3 million in Gazaa alone) and they are often on the new buldozing down villages, schools, homes, farms etc. And how about the latst peace process Israel refused to negotiate its sponsors and the palestinian authority, they built a wall built an illegal wall on occupied land to cement its ownership in jewish hands perminantly. Bush maybe talking of a viable palestinian state, but this last year israel have been talking about blocking palestinian state hood and if any state were to remain it would be full of military check points and would not be viable with the current negotiators. I could easily go on but i'm at work and have to get on with some work, read the content and fuck grammer.
We're leaving a little bit out of this story, aren't we?
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Ok heres a little history lesson, now tell me you wouldn't be pissed off if this happenned to your country.... 55 years ago the jews steal half your country with western support, a couple of years later they invade and take over the rest of your country, they move natives out to make way for jewish settlements. You can't complain to the UN because america will veto any resolution critising israel or trying to place sanctions apon them. Then you have military support, since palestine was a german colony which was then taken over on 20 year mandate by the british in WW1 they had no official army, but Israel recieves billions of dollars from america every year in militatry aid, and those lovely french helped israel become the worlds 4th largest nuclear power (which the israeli still deny, so they havn't signed up to the non proliferation treaty and are not subject to sanctions). Israel has turned what is left of palestine into a virtual prison, with all the check points and restrictions they have imposed. they have also created many refugees (1.3 million in Gazaa alone) and they are often on the new buldozing down villages, schools, homes, farms etc. And how about the latst peace process Israel refused to negotiate its sponsors and the palestinian authority, they built a wall built an illegal wall on occupied land to cement its ownership in jewish hands perminantly. Bush maybe talking of a viable palestinian state, but this last year israel have been talking about blocking palestinian state hood and if any state were to remain it would be full of military check points and would not be viable with the current negotiators. I could easily go on but i'm at work and have to get on with some work, read the content and fuck grammer.
We're leaving a little bit out of this story, aren't we?
yes i did there are plenty more bad things that i could say about israel like their indescriminate killings they are notorious for (recently they mistook 6 eyption policemen for palestinians and killed them), or the statistics that israel has killed 10 times more civillians than any palestinian terrorist reaction to the illegal occupation, which i may add the whole world acknowledges is an illegal occupation even america, and their settlements are acknowledged to be illegal, but they are still planning on building more in the west bank which is a huge barrier to peace (and goes against the road map) as it just shows they have no intention of ever giving up the west bank. Or maybe talk about their properganda war against the UN by accusing them to be working with hamas when they obviously were not, not that they really need to worry about the UN with america bending over backwards for them. blah blah blah now try and come up with a convincing argument against what i am saying rather than you comments that i am leaving stuff out considering my whole post was geared to why palestinians were pushed into terrorist reactions from israeli action. yes they never accepted the jewish state until recent times (would you if someone told you america was going to be split in 2 and half of it given to muslims who never even lived in america before?) and whilst i baught that subject up israel never accepted the partition before and after independence they were talking about expansion.
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yes i did there are plenty more bad things that i could say about israel like their indescriminate killings they are notorious for (recently they mistook 6 eyption policemen for palestinians and killed them), or the statistics that israel has killed 10 times more civillians than any palestinian terrorist reaction to the illegal occupation
Okay, Israel mistook 6 Egyptian policeman and killed the innocent people...that is wrong. But what about the Palestinian suicide bombers? Do they not take innocent lives when they blow up? To be fair, you have to recognize that. Who are the suicide bombers really killing? Are they killing someone who was responsible for taking their land? Probably not...it's probably just innocent people trying to live their lives.
I would also like to know the statistics about Israel killing 10 times more civilians...it sounds inflated to me.
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ok the statistics are a little inflated when i get home i'll check them out, but when i researched it a year ago i think the civillian death toll by israelis was 4 times that of those killed by palestinians. I do recognise that the suicide bombers are in the wrong and is not something i would personally agree with, however i can fully undersdtand why they are doing it, its because they have been driven to it by the actions of israel which is why i don't necessairly blame them for doing it i blame israel. I think it was the UN who recently said israels actions, restrictions and humiliations have created a beading ground for terrorists, so i'm not the only one with that opinion.
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palestinian civillian death toll since sept 29 200 = 3,465
israeli civilian death toll 424 in israel, 208 in the west bank and gazaa
but this is only recently the tolls since the occupation will be much worse i can't find any statistics however i have found parts and some other interesting info.
Ariel Sharon was the mastermind behind Israel's 1982 invasion of Lebanon, which claimed more than 20,000 Palestinian and Lebanese lives, and the notorious massacres of thousands of Palestinian men, women and children at the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps in Lebanon, the same year.
Winston S. Churchill III in 1973 asked Ariel Sharon, "What is to become of the Palestinians?" Sharon's answer: "We'll make a pastrami sandwich of them. We'll insert a strip of Jewish settlement, in between the Palestinians, and then another strip of Jewish settlement, right across the West Bank, so that in twenty-five years time, neither the United Nations, nor the United States, nobody, will be able to tear it apart. " And that is what Labor and Likud administrations have done during the last three decades. Israel told the world of its objectives and the world ignored the direct testimony. The final clue to Israel's intentions occurred with the election of Sharon to Prime Minister--a challenge to a world of innocence.
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Well I guess than it would be better for them not to go through checkpoints (if they feel so violated) It would serve the Israeli armed forces with great help .
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Well I guess than it would be better for them not to go through checkpoints (if they feel so violated) It would serve the Israeli armed forces with great help .
Do you know how stupid you sound with those retarded remarks?
Your comment can be compared to this: "Well I guess it would be better for Israelis to give back the land they stole, if they feel so threatened."
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Well I guess than it would be better for them not to go through checkpoints (if they feel so violated) It would serve the Israeli armed forces with great help .
Do you know how stupid you sound with those retarded remarks?
Your comment can be compared to this: "Well I guess it would be better for Israelis to give back the land they stole, if they feel so threatened."
yea I agree, but for some reason analogical statements from the opposite direction don't seem to bother people that much....
Therefore Im entitled to my fair share of stupidity :)
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for some reason analogical statements from the opposite direction don't seem to bother people that much....
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Well I guess than it would be better for them not to go through checkpoints (if they feel so violated) It would serve the Israeli armed forces with great help .
Do you know how stupid you sound with those retarded remarks?
Your comment can be compared to this: "Well I guess it would be better for Israelis to give back the land they stole, if they feel so threatened."
yea I agree, but for some reason analogical statements from the opposite direction don't seem to bother people that much....
Therefore Im entitled to my fair share of stupidity :)
It's not a fair share when you've grabbed the biggest slice of the pie.
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Well I guess than it would be better for them not to go through checkpoints (if they feel so violated) It would serve the Israeli armed forces with great help .
Do you know how stupid you sound with those retarded remarks?
Your comment can be compared to this: "Well I guess it would be better for Israelis to give back the land they stole, if they feel so threatened."
yea I agree, but for some reason analogical statements from the opposite direction don't seem to bother people that much....
Therefore Im entitled to my fair share of stupidity :)
It's not a fair share when you've grabbed the biggest slice of the pie.
See, now you're making one. You ignore all the analogical statements from people with the opposite stand point.
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No, I'm not making "one". I exposed you for being stupid, then you admitted that you really are stupid, and all I did is point out how stupid you really are. I haven't ignored anything here. :)
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No, I'm not making "one". I exposed you for being stupid, then you admitted that you really are stupid, and all I did is point out how stupid you really are. I haven't ignored anything here. :)
Well, if this makes you feel any better about yourself than so be it.
Great job "exposing me" buddy.