West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Lincoln on February 23, 2005, 09:50:14 AM
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The Pope's latest book has sparked controversy for the passages in which he calls same-sex marriages a part of "a new ideology of evil."
In the book released for sale Wednesday, the Pope refers to the "pressures" on the European Parliament to endorse same-sex marriages.
"It is legitimate and necessary to ask oneself if this is not perhaps part of a new ideology of evil, perhaps more insidious and hidden, which attempts to pit human rights against the family and against man," he writes.
Memory and Identity is based on taped and transcribed conversations he had with friends in 1993. Proceeds of book sales are earmarked for charity.
The book release was met with widespread interest following his recent stay in hospital on Feb. 1 where he was rushed for flu-related respiratory problems, an ailment some feared would be fatal.
But jubilation among worshippers at the Pope's recovery was not enough to quail further criticism of his latest book.
It raised the ire of Jewish groups who denounced the Catholic leader for allegedly comparing the Holocaust to abortion saying that both came about when leaders tried to seize "the law of God."
"It was a legally elected parliament which allowed for the election of Hitler in Germany in the 1930s and then the same Reichstag that gave Hitler powers which paved a way for the political invasion of Europe and to the creation of concentration camps and for introducing the so-called 'final solution' of the Jewish question, which meant the extermination of millions of sons and daughters of Israel."
The pope continued, "We have to question the legal regulations that have been decided in the parliaments of present day democracies. The most direct association which comes to mind is the abortion laws. ... Parliaments which create and promulgate such laws must be aware that they are transgressing their powers and remain in open conflict with the law of God and the law of nature."
The pontiff also describes the 1981 attempt on his life and attributes his drive to get through the ordeal to his faith. He was shot while riding in an open car in St. Peter's Square.
"Yes, I remember that journey to the hospital," he wrote. "I remained conscious for some time after. I had a feeling that I would survive. I was in pain, I had reason to be afraid, but I had this strange feeling of confidence."
According to media reports, the Pope believes the assassination attempt was not gunman Mehmet Ali Agca's initiative, "someone else masterminded it and someone else commissioned it."
With files from The Associated Press
http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1109175818790_104585018?hub=topstories
Interesting article.
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We always knew this pope is backwards and has no sense of reality at all. This only confirms that.
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he had reason to be afraid of dying? fuckin bitch
btw i agree on the gay mariage, but abortion compared to hollocaust ::)
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but abortion compared to hollocaust ::)
yeah, that only makes him look like a brainwashed retard, which he probably is
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but abortion compared to hollocaust ::)
yeah, that only makes him look like a brainwashed retard, which he probably is
He said they compare in the way that both were governement endorsed killing. He obviously believes that an unborn child is a life and in that regard he isn't too far off. He never said the abortion laws were more sadistic than the holocaust.
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He hasn't died yet ? ;D Send that nigga back to Poland.
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the Pope is 100% right
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but abortion compared to hollocaust ::)
yeah, that only makes him look like a brainwashed retard, which he probably is
He said they compare in the way that both were governement endorsed killing. He obviously believes that an unborn child is a life and in that regard he isn't too far off. He never said the abortion laws were more sadistic than the holocaust.
he compares abortion to the holocaust, that's already bad enough
and remember that:
popes + holocaust = not a good combination
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the Pope is 100% right
This comment pretty much shows the piece of shit you are as a person.
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but abortion compared to hollocaust ::)
yeah, that only makes him look like a brainwashed retard, which he probably is
He said they compare in the way that both were governement endorsed killing. He obviously believes that an unborn child is a life and in that regard he isn't too far off. He never said the abortion laws were more sadistic than the holocaust.
he compares abortion to the holocaust, that's already bad enough
and remember that:
popes + holocaust = not a good combination
I'm not saying I agree with him, but from a legal point of view abortion laws and killing laws issued in Germany back in the 30s and 40s aren't too different to someone who thinks a fetus is a human being. He wasn't implying that human rights activists are trying to kill off all the babies like Hitler wanted to with the Jews. From a legal standpoint I don't think he was too far off. I've heard worse things by better people.
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Abortion does NOT equal murder.
I don't wanna start a discussion about abortion, but there is a big difference between removing a foetus of a few weeks old and killing a human being. And shit, you can compare everything to Nazi Germany. The Nazis invented the autobahn, does that mean autobahns are evil? No.
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i think that abortion is murder, but he could have picked a better analogy.
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i think that abortion is murder, but he could have picked a better analogy.
seriously, shut up if you have no idea what you're talking about
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Abortion does NOT equal murder.
I don't wanna start a discussion about abortion, but there is a big difference between removing a foetus of a few weeks old and killing a human being. And shit, you can compare everything to Nazi Germany. The Nazis invented the autobahn, does that mean autobahns are evil? No.
You are being close minded and ignorant. Okay, you believe that abortion is not murder or killing, but the Pope and Catholics do. I was not professing my personal opion on the matter. I was merely explaing that from the point of view of a man that thinks abortion is murder then signing a bill that allows women and doctors to abort their children is not too different than signing a bill that allows the death of Jews. Now there is a difference in the fact that victims of a Holocaust have no choice and neither do the killers. The Jews could not refuse death and the soldiers killing them could not refuse to kill them with out punishment. Now one could argue that the babies have no choice, but unless a bill is passed that says all women must abort each child then the two instances are different, but not too different. The similarity lies in the fact that it is Governement sanctioned killing. It is definately killing, whether you believe that a fetus is a human or not, it is still an organism that is being destroyed. To you it's fine because it's not a real Human, but to the Pope it is not fine because it is a human. Science changes my friend. Today we may think something is like this, but tommorow it could become something completely different. Anyone that thinks Science is definate is a moron who hasn't read history. You never know what scientific discoveries lie ahead.
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i think that abortion is murder, but he could have picked a better analogy.
seriously, shut up if you have no idea what you're talking about
So a child that is breathing, and has a heart beat isnt alive?
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So if I pull a plant out of the ground, I'm a murderer?
So a child that is breathing, and has a heart beat isnt alive?
Dude, a foetus is not a child and a foetus does not suffer when it's being removed.
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So if I pull a plant out of the ground, I'm a murderer?
No. But if you pull 3 million very large plants (trees) out of a Rainforest, then you better expect to see some jail time. ;)
The main difference is that the Pope truly believes that the fetus is a human. A plant is not a human and will not become one, but there are some environmentalists that would call you a murderer.
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The main difference is that the Pope truly believes that the fetus is a human. A plant is not a human and will not become one, but there are some environmentalists that would call you a murderer.
Dude, the pope can't even talk or tie his own shoes or whatever...
who cares what he believes in?
hes about as smart as a foetus, thats prolly why he sympthatises
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I agree with the pope on gay marriage.
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Me too... I mean, fuck the faggots...
gays arent supposed to be, but I just think the pope should hurry up and die
ure against gay mariage because ure against it, not cuz the pope says so
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ure against gay mariage because ure against it
lol, yea pretty much
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ure against gay mariage because ure against it
lol, yea pretty much
lmao
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but abortion compared to hollocaust ::)
yeah, that only makes him look like a brainwashed retard, which he probably is
hmmm..... you should not make presumptions or speak on someone you have no idea about. i'd tell you to go fuck yourself, but the pope would forgive you for it, so why should i be pissed ?
well, as for the rest of the haters...
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but I just think the pope should hurry up and die
explain yourself.. you...
pope john paul the 2nd may be the last true catholic in the vatican, and you want him to die ? what is wrong with you ?
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Pope = one real nigga
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hmmm..... you should not make presumptions or speak on someone you have no idea about. i'd tell you to go fuck yourself, but the pope would forgive you for it, so why should i be pissed ?
The pope is retarded, has no sense of reality, discriminates, is backwards and supports fascism. What do you mean, I have no idea what I speak about? Explain yourself.
I know all you biased pope fans don't want to see this or don't want to admit this, but the pope does not have a good heart.
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hmmm..... you should not make presumptions or speak on someone you have no idea about. i'd tell you to go fuck yourself, but the pope would forgive you for it, so why should i be pissed ?
The pope is retarded, has no sense of reality, discriminates, is backwards and supports fascism. What do you mean, I have no idea what I speak about? Explain yourself.
I know all you biased pope fans don't want to see this or don't want to admit this, but the pope does not have a good heart.
Doesn't have a good heart? Someone tried to kill him and he went to visit that person to forgive him. You don't forgive your lover if he doesn't warn you before he busts a nut in your mouth and you're here talking about the pope not having a good heart. However, I can understand why a fag like you would feel that way. He doesn't approve of people like you wanting to get married, and you're squirting cum out of your ass over it... stop your whining, homothug.
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hmmm..... you should not make presumptions or speak on someone you have no idea about. i'd tell you to go fuck yourself, but the pope would forgive you for it, so why should i be pissed ?
The pope is retarded, has no sense of reality, discriminates, is backwards and supports fascism. What do you mean, I have no idea what I speak about? Explain yourself.
I know all you biased pope fans don't want to see this or don't want to admit this, but the pope does not have a good heart.
Doesn't have a good heart? Someone tried to kill him and he went to visit that person to forgive him.
And he doesn't care about 6 million murdered jews, he 'damns' gay people, he 'damns' a girl or a woman that had her baby removed while he doesn't even know a thing about the situation. Forgiving someone that tried to kill him doesn't make up for that.
But like I said: The pope is retarded, has no sense of reality, discriminates, is backwards and supports fascism. ;)
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hmmm..... you should not make presumptions or speak on someone you have no idea about. i'd tell you to go fuck yourself, but the pope would forgive you for it, so why should i be pissed ?
The pope is retarded, has no sense of reality, discriminates, is backwards and supports fascism. What do you mean, I have no idea what I speak about? Explain yourself.
I know all you biased pope fans don't want to see this or don't want to admit this, but the pope does not have a good heart.
Doesn't have a good heart? Someone tried to kill him and he went to visit that person to forgive him.
And he doesn't care about 6 million murdered jews, he 'damns' gay people, he 'damns' a girl or a woman that had her baby removed while he doesn't even know a thing about the situation. Forgiving someone that tried to kill him doesn't make up for that.
But like I said: The pope is retarded, has no sense of reality, discriminates, is backwards and supports fascism. ;)
Pope: "Being a fag is wrong"
Mauzip: "Pope is being mean to me"
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Pope: "Being a fag is wrong"
Mauzip: "Pope is being mean to me"
Just because I don't have anything against gays doesn't mean I'm gay. The pope has only done wrong in his life and people like you don't want to admit that and you are just extremely close minded when it comes down to this subject.
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but I just think the pope should hurry up and die
explain yourself.. you...
pope john paul the 2nd may be the last true catholic in the vatican, and you want him to die ? what is wrong with you ?
I meant that more like, he should shut up and stop telling the world what they should do...
I'm not against catholics or against having a pope, I just think that having a church leaded by someone who can't even talk for him self is kinda ridiculous... you actually think he writes any statement that comes from the Vatican? He couldnt even if he wanted to
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There's no way I'd consider the opinion of a 200 year old senile dude.
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There's no way I'd consider the opinion of a 200 year old senile dude.
;D , my point exactly
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There's no way I'd consider the opinion of a 200 year old senile dude.
Anyone that uses his mind wouldn't, but you gotta realize he has an influence on many people on this planet.
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There's no way I'd consider the opinion of a 200 year old senile dude.
Anyone that uses his mind wouldn't, but you gotta realize he has an influence on many people on this planet.
yeah but he isnt just appealing to the people that believe in him or follow him, but hes trying to get the whole world to do as he thinks...
I dont think he has the right to...
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I mean believing in something is cool but let someone else have his own believes
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^^comparing abortion with the holocaust is insane. he should be prosecuted for that.
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^^comparing abortion with the holocaust is insane. he should be prosecuted for that.
Posecuted? That was the stupidest thing you've said so far. Let's get one thing straight; I'm not Catholic and do not look at the Pope for leadership, but I see where he's coming from on these issues. Having the Church allow Gay marriages is a stepping stone for incestuous marriages. If he allows two men to get married then he'll have less of a case when it comes to a father and daughter or brother and sister, or even brother and brother, getting married. I personally don't have a problem either way but I can see how some might.
Now as for your claim that he should be prosecuted; there is nothing illegal about making outlandish comparisons. You only take it so far because you are either Jewish or have been brain washed by the media and think the the Holocaust of the 1930s and 40s in Germany was the worst thing to ever happen to any people anywhere. Well, I hate to break it to you but it happened a lot more than once and to more than just the Jews. It just so happens that the only one the we seem to hear about was that one. When did the Pope say he didn't care about the the killing of 6 million Jews? Just curious.
One more question on abortion; why is it okay to kill a fetus at 6 weeks but not at 6 months? and if you found out that a fetus could survive with out the mother from day one would you still support it?
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Posecuted? That was the stupidest thing you've said so far.
He creates hate against a big group of people, but in the position he's in he also hurts a big number in that group of people. Why do you think gay activists have tried to prosecute the pope several times before? It's the same principle, even though I think gays have better arguments to sue the pope than holocaust victims do.
You only take it so far because you are either Jewish or have been brain washed by the media and think the the Holocaust of the 1930s and 40s in Germany was the worst thing to ever happen to any people anywhere. Well, I hate to break it to you but it happened a lot more than once and to more than just the Jews. It just so happens that the only one the we seem to hear about was that one.
I'm not jewish. I know a lot more happened in WW2 than just the holocaust, but like I already said: the pope has a too big of influence on people to say shit like that.
When did the Pope say he didn't care about the the killing of 6 million Jews? Just curious.
He never did, but as far as I know no pope has ever apologized for doing nothing against the holocaust in WW2.
One more question on abortion; why is it okay to kill a fetus at 6 weeks but not at 6 months?
A 6-months-old foetus feels pain, realizes it has pain, it suffers; a foetus of 6 weeks doesn't. There's a reason why there's a law that states the maximum number of weeks a woman can be pregnant in order to have an abortion done.
and if you found out that a fetus could survive with out the mother from day one would you still support it?
Yes. If a woman won't be able to take care of her baby, is pregnant from a rapist or has another good reason not to keep it, she has the right to do an abortion. This is kinda black and white how I state it, but there's of course a grey area in this too since the (possible) father(s) should also have a vote in it.
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He creates hate against a big group of people, but in the position he's in he also hurts a big number in that group of people. Why do you think gay activists have tried to prosecute the pope several times before? It's the same principle, even though I think gays have better arguments to sue the pope than holocaust victims do.
I think there is a difference between organizing hate inspired physical attacks and stating opinions already held by every devout catholic. Anyone that attacks a homosexual because the all of the sudden the Pope said it was evil is insane and could be triggered by any numbers of things.
I'm not jewish. I know a lot more happened in WW2 than just the holocaust, but like I already said: the pope has a too big of influence on people to say shit like that.
I meant all the other holocausts and genocides that happened since and before the holocaust of WW2.
He never did, but as far as I know no pope has ever apologized for doing nothing against the holocaust in WW2.
I am of Greek descent. My ancestors were enslaved by Turkey between 1453 and 1821. After regaining independence of half of Grece (the current Greece) Turkey became more brutal with it's occupied countries. In 1915 they killed nearly 2 million Armenians in what Churchill called a holocaust. They also killed any Greek in the Turkish side of Greece that was never freed. My paternal grandfather had family on that side. Members of his family (and mine) were brutally murdered as a result of this holocaust. Not only has Turkey never apologized for this, but they don't even admit to having done it. None the less, I have never asked for an apology from any Turk and don't care if their Governement issues one, because no one currently in power had anything to do with the slavery or the genocide. Pope John Paul II was not directly responsible for anything Hitler did. I don't think he should have to apologize for anything.
A 6-months-old foetus feels pain, realizes it has pain, it suffers; a foetus of 6 weeks doesn't. There's a reason why there's a law that states the maximum number of weeks a woman can be pregnant in order to have an abortion done.
Current Science says a 6 week fetus feels no pain. What would you say if a new scientific discovery showed that a fetus can feel pain upon conception?
Yes. If a woman won't be able to take care of her baby, is pregnant from a rapist or has another good reason not to keep it, she has the right to do an abortion. This is kinda black and white how I state it, but there's of course a grey area in this too since the (possible) father(s) should also have a vote in it.
What if the government were to make it illegal but provide care for any otherwise aborted child. Would you be against that?
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What if, what if? If this or that happens there will always be certain things that can change anyone's opinion.
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What if, what if? If this or that happens there will always be certain things that can change anyone's opinion.
I'm just trying to figure out where you stand on certain possibilities and whether you are dead set in your beliefs. It is very possible for the scientific understanding of a fetus to change in the coming years. Like I said before, anyone who thinks that current science on certain issues "prooves" anything is a fool.
I may disagree with abortion but that doesn't mean I'm going around stopping women from having abortions. I simply express my opinion to any young woman I know that contemplates it. This is no different than me disagreeing with the Islamic religion, much like any Muslim disagrees with the Christian religion. If I'm conversing with a muslim I'll express why I am not Muslim and he or she will express why they are not Christian, just like you express why you are not religious. I certainly would not force my religion on anyone that refuses it, and I would not force any young woman not to get an abortion. I also would not have a problem with a law banning abortion if the government chooses to pick up the costs. I think it would be unfair for the government to ban it and then expect young mothers who would otherwise get abortions to pay for it.
Now if the technology of incubators could increase to the point where the fetus could be removed from the womb with in days of conception and raised in the incubator then I would greatly support a confidentiality based system to keep young mothers from having abortions. I can't see these type of devices being too far away. The only reason I don't think this would happen is the government wouldn't want to fork the bill. The only way I could see it coming into fruition is if the people demaded it and offered to pay for it through taxes, which isn't likely.
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like tech said the pope is 100% right
and like siko said the pope is one real nigga
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the pope did issue an official apology for the holocaust
and saying that he has never done anything good in his life is ridiculous
and seriously you really gotta calm the fuck down because people dont think like you do does not make them a piece of shit it just makes you an ignorant piece of shit that too opinionated for his intellengence level
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but the pope does not have a good heart.
obviously you have no idea of the popes works in the past 20 or so years.
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like tech said the pope is 100% right
and like siko said the pope is one real nigga
hell yea
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the pope did issue an official apology for the holocaust
and saying that he has never done anything good in his life is ridiculous
and seriously you really gotta calm the fuck down because people dont think like you do does not make them a piece of shit it just makes you an ignorant piece of shit that too opinionated for his intellengence level
so you don't like me because i have an argumentated opinion? that says more abuot you than it does about me
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no i dont like you because u seem to think insulting people because their opinion is different that yours is the way to do things
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(http://www.amightywind.com/abortionf/abortion06.jpg)
(http://www.amightywind.com/abortionf/abortion04.jpg)
(http://www.amightywind.com/abortionf/abortion05.jpg)
(http://www.amightywind.com/abortionf/abortion01.jpg)
(http://www.amightywind.com/abortionf/abortion09.jpg)
(http://www.amightywind.com/abortionf/abortion08.jpg)
(http://www.amightywind.com/abortionf/abortion11.jpg)
(http://www.amightywind.com/abortionf/abortion07.jpg)
(http://www.amightywind.com/abortionf/abortion03.jpg)
(http://www.amightywind.com/abortionf/abortion02.jpg)
Aportion is not murder ::)
The shit just makes me sick...
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a 5 month old foetus looks more like a baby than a 3 weeks old foetus
DUHH! ::)
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You know what makes me sick, is the fact that you posted those pictures. You can debate abortion without having to gross people out, that doesnt help. But hey you beat out mazuip with Grosses picture award.
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no i dont like you because u seem to think insulting people because their opinion is different that yours is the way to do things
Bull. Where have I insulted anyone for his opinion about a war for example?
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You know what makes me sick, is the fact that you posted those pictures. You can debate abortion without having to gross people out, that doesnt help. But hey you beat out mazuip with Grosses picture award.
I think those pictures should be shown to everyone, particularly ones considering abortion. It's a lot easier when you think all that is being removed is an organism. It's not so easy when it looks like a baby. I feel the same way when it comes to showing pictures of the brutally killed in war the next time someone wants to support an invasion. It becomes a lot harder to support something that includes death once you humanize it.
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who cares about war we're talking about this thread
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I just dont think its right to swade someones opinion by grossing them out. If you want to try and change someones opinion, state facts.
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I just dont think its right to swade someones opinion by grossing them out. If you want to try and change someones opinion, state facts.
okay,
2900+ Killed on 9.11.2001
3,741 Killed Today & Every Day by abortions
40 Million+ Killed since 1973 by abortions
Approximately 1.2 MILLION unborn children are MURDERED in the U.S. each year
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Well everyone already knows that alot of abortions happen. I was implying facts more on the line of why its wrong.
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who cares about war we're talking about this thread
The thread was originally about the Pope and his thoughts on evil. I think war applies to evil.
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I was implying facts more on the line of why its wrong.
LOL I love it when you 2 retards argue... what comes to mind is:
"I see... ", said the blind man to the deaf guy.
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Approximately 1.2 MILLION unborn children are MURDERED in the U.S. each year
It's not murder. :nawty:
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"he 'damns' a girl or a woman that had her baby removed while he doesn't even know a thing about the situation"
no matter the situation , unless it puts the womans health and life at risk , she has no right to have an abortion, even if she was raped and got pregnant . I understand a woman not being able to take care of her baby and giving her away cause at least then , despite all the hardships the kid's gonna go through (growing up without ur real mom etc) at least he'd have at chance at life.
I know it sounds very preachy but that's honestly how i feel .
Now I expect someone to come in and start insulting me for having a different opinion than there's.
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"he 'damns' a girl or a woman that had her baby removed while he doesn't even know a thing about the situation"
no matter the situation , unless it puts the womans health and life at risk , she has no right to have an abortion, even if she was raped and got pregnant . I understand a woman not being able to take care of her baby and giving her away cause at least then , despite all the hardships the kid's gonna go through (growing up without ur real mom etc) at least he'd have at chance at life.
I know it sounds very preachy but that's honestly how i feel .
Now I expect someone to come in and start insulting me for having a different opinion than there's.
thats exactly how i feel
if she didnt want to have the kid that badly that shed kill she shouldnt have opened her legs in the first place
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Approximately 1.2 MILLION unborn children are MURDERED in the U.S. each year
It's not murder. :nawty:
thou shall not kill = dont murder