West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Trauma-san on July 04, 2005, 07:40:29 PM
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I saw something great today.
I don't know how many of you have followed Ali's career very carefully, but when Ali was young, he was actually named Cassius Clay. He was kind of unknown, and got a chance to fight Sonny Liston, the heavyweight champion of the world, and beat Liston, in what a lot of people call the greatest upset of all time. I guess it wasn't really an upset, because Ali truly was better, but nobody expected him to win.
Anyways, He beat Sonny Liston in 6 rounds (Liston couldn't continue), and shocked the world. Cassius ran around making fun of Liston, and then ran his mouth from then on (until now, basically) about how he was the greatest. It was such a cocky display, he beat Liston, stunned everybody, then ran around saying "I'm The Greatest!... I'm a BAD MAN!" on live t.v. and shit after the fight. At that time, he was the only one who knew he was the Greatest, lol.
Anyways, what happened soon after is what the topic's about, soon after that fight, he met Elijah Muhammad, and decided to convert to Islam, or become a Muslim, whatever you term it. Anyways, today, I saw footage of Ali's next fight! He rematched Sonny Liston, and I always knew he knocked Liston out in the first round of the rematch.
Anyways, they start the show, and they're calling Ali, "Cassius". The crowd is booing him, and going nuts, and when he gets to the ring, all of his ring attire says "Muhammad Ali" on the back of it. It was really striking... they were billing it as "Cassius Clay", and here he was, really thin (206 was the weigh-in), really young, perfect complexion, just a young small thin guy, in this heavy robe that said "Muhammad Ali"... it was almost like seeing the birth of Muhammad Ali, or the legend that that amazing robe represents, you know? It was Cassius Clay, in a Muhammad Ali robe. Very strange, it's hard to put to words, but when you think of Cassius Clay you think of one thing, and when you think of who should be standing in that famous white "Muhammad Ali" robe, you think of another thing. I think it was just his low weight that made it look so strikingly different, but it was interesting.
Anyways, the announcers on t.v. keep calling him Cassius, although his robe clearly says Ali. Remember he's only won 1 major fight, and this is the rematch, who many expected him to lose.
They announce Sonny Liston's name, and then say "And his opponent, the Heavyweight champion of the World, "Muhammmmmad Ali!" and the crowd boos and goes crazy... Ali just held one glove up in the air, almost like that pose from the Olympics that year when it was all black on the stand.
Anyways, the thing to know about Sonny Liston is that he was once a gangster, he had ties to the mob, went to prison, all this bad shit. People even say he threw this fight to pay back some debts, but whatever. The guy was by all accounts an asshole, and a few years later, he was found shot to death in a motel.
Anyways, Ali proceeds to just make a fucking FOOL out of Liston in the ring, he danced around him, didn't get hit but maybe once in the stomach, everytime Liston would swing, Ali would dodge, and Liston would try to hit him, Ali was actually blocking the blows or ducking them, bouncing off the rope, this insane fighting style with his hands flying 4 or 5 feet before Liston had time to move, just incredibly fast. Anyways, Ali barely hits Liston, and Liston goes down. The crowd starts booing and going crazy, Liston gets back up, falls down again, they stop the match, Ali goes nuts. He walks over to the edge of the ring, and goes "WHAT'S MY NAME?" and the crowd goes nuts, booooooo , he points at some guy in the front row and goes "WHAT'S MY NAME?" points at another and says "WHAT'S MY NAME?"and is just pointing at everybody and yelling at them, and the crowd hates him and is going crazy.
The crowd is booing his ass, so bad. The guy walks up to interview him, and calls him Cassius, Ali flips out and tells him to call him Muhammad, praises allah, all of that, and then they talk about the match.
Ali says he won because he's been praying and living right, he had Allah on his side.
Then, here's the quote...
They show him the tape of him dancing around the ring, just totally clowning Liston, doing crazy foot moves, etc. and the guy asks him what he was thinking there
Ali says "I was just listening to the crowd boo. They wanted Liston to win, he's a gangster and a criminal, and I'm living the good life, and I guess they wanted the gangster to win, so they boo'd me"
I almost felt bad for him, because he was 100% correct, it was pretty fucked up.
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(http://www.poster.net/ali-muhammad/ali-muhammad-muhammad-ali-vs-sonny-liston-4900221.jpg)
(http://www.ud4.com/images/alilistonarmsup.jpg)
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it is fucked up, but Ali sure fucked him up, lol
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That quote has a lot of truth to it, white America doesn't like to see it's people turning to Islam like Ali did (although first through Elijah Muhammad and then eventually he found Islam in it's true and universal form). The United States is at war with two Muslim countries.
On top of that, Americans of all races love gangsters, just ask Al Pacino and Suge Knight, both made millions selling the lifestyle. America was founded by gangsters. First the gangster'd the Natives up off their land, and now today, George Bush is the biggest, baddest gangsta in the world, gansterin' Iraq and Afganistan up off of their land and his partners (Cheney, etc.) are making billions in oil and reconstruction contracts.
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That quote has a lot of truth to it, white America doesn't like to see it's people turning to Islam like Ali did (although first through Elijah Muhammad and then eventually he found Islam in it's true and universal form). The United States is at war with two Muslim countries.
yeah you hit it right on the head.... in 1965 EVERYONE hated the muslims...
it wasn't because Ali was a newcomer that was a cocky ass black dude and knocked out fan's favorite boxer
you're a fucking idiot
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yeah you hit it right on the head.... in 1965 EVERYONE hated the muslims...
it wasn't because Ali was a newcomer that was a cocky ass black dude and knocked out fan's favorite boxer
you're a fucking idiot
Look man, I'm white, I've grown up around honkies, I know their mentality, the white people who hate Ali, really hate the fact that he had the "nerve" to change his name to Muhammad Ali. Because Muhammad Ali is about as Muslim of a name you can get, Muhammad is the name of the Prophet who revealed the Noble Qu'ran, and Ali is the name of the cousin of the Prophet, and the most famous Muslim leader to follow Muhammad.
Had he been a young, cocky newcomer, Christian, Jesus worshippin black boxer named Cassius, they would not have given him the same grief. Although it wasn't the only reason they hated him, Clay changing his slave name to a righteous Arabic name- Ali- was a huge factor.
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the white people who hate Ali, really hate the fact that he had the "nerve" to change his name to Muhammad Ali. Because Muhammad Ali is about as Muslim of a name you can get, Muhammad is the name of the Prophet who revealed the Noble Qu'ran, and Ali is the name of the cousin of the Prophet, and the most famous Muslim leader to follow Muhammad.
Had he been a young, cocky newcomer, Christian, Jesus worshippin black boxer named Cassius, they would not have given him the same grief. Although it wasn't the only reason they hated him, Clay changing his slave name to a righteous Arabic name- Ali- was a huge factor.
I hate Ali, but it has nothing to do with his conversion, or the man himself really. I hate the idea that a guy so protected thouhghout his career because he could draw big money gets so much more acclaim than guys like Joe Lewis, or Marciano. True champions who didn't have to obiously cheat to win. Ali would use the head lock so many times in a match you'd think he was a wrestle. He wore a stomach gaurd that covered almost everything up to his ribs and wasn't asked to lower it once. And let's not forget how he dodged Foreman for the rematch after a probable fixed fight. Saying Ali is the best boxer of all time is like saying Bruce Lee is the best fighter of all time. You might fool the loons, and you may not get to many people to say it on TV, but everyone that really knows what they're talking about knows better. Ali was a charasmatic guy who made a lot of money, and as a promoter there is no one I'd rather have as champ, but as a realist I know better. Just watch the fights and see all the liberties he gets away with and how his opponents always fight worse on the rematch after they had beaten him. When he beat Frasier because Frasier could see and the fight had to stop, Ali couldn't walk and the fight would have ended anyway whether Frasier coulld or couldn't see properly. When he fought the rematch with Spinks you'll notice that Leon isn't punching back, while just a few months earlier he was hitting Ali with everything and beat him. It's a shame Ali had to pay the promoters back at the end of his career. "We do you a favour, you do us a favour". The promoters spent a lot of time to make him seem better than he was so Ali had to sacrifice his health and get pummeled to make Larry Holmes seem better than he was. It's just a shame Holmes had no charisma on the microphone.
P.S. I wonder if he would have changed his name if he new the large part Muslims had in enslaving black people over the years.
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yeah you hit it right on the head.... in 1965 EVERYONE hated the muslims...
it wasn't because Ali was a newcomer that was a cocky ass black dude and knocked out fan's favorite boxer
you're a fucking idiot
Look man, I'm white, I've grown up around honkies, I know their mentality, the white people who hate Ali, really hate the fact that he had the "nerve" to change his name to Muhammad Ali. Because Muhammad Ali is about as Muslim of a name you can get, Muhammad is the name of the Prophet who revealed the Noble Qu'ran, and Ali is the name of the cousin of the Prophet, and the most famous Muslim leader to follow Muhammad.
Had he been a young, cocky newcomer, Christian, Jesus worshippin black boxer named Cassius, they would not have given him the same grief. Although it wasn't the only reason they hated him, Clay changing his slave name to a righteous Arabic name- Ali- was a huge factor.
honestly, i think its both man. He could have been a humble black man in the ring, and turned Muslim...they would not have supported him. Or, he could have been a loud mouth cocky Christian black man, they would not have supported him. But to be all three, cocky, black, AND turn Muslim....at that time, hell yeah they hated him. And on top of it, he was good. They hated the fact that he was good. He was everything that White America (at the time) didnt like, and they couldnt do anything about it.
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yeah you hit it right on the head.... in 1965 EVERYONE hated the muslims...
it wasn't because Ali was a newcomer that was a cocky ass black dude and knocked out fan's favorite boxer
you're a fucking idiot
Look man, I'm white, I've grown up around honkies, I know their mentality, the white people who hate Ali, really hate the fact that he had the "nerve" to change his name to Muhammad Ali. Because Muhammad Ali is about as Muslim of a name you can get, Muhammad is the name of the Prophet who revealed the Noble Qu'ran, and Ali is the name of the cousin of the Prophet, and the most famous Muslim leader to follow Muhammad.
Had he been a young, cocky newcomer, Christian, Jesus worshippin black boxer named Cassius, they would not have given him the same grief. Although it wasn't the only reason they hated him, Clay changing his slave name to a righteous Arabic name- Ali- was a huge factor.
ok ok you're right, white american in 1965 was totally content with a cocky black guy, but he had to go and become muslim and that really made them flip the fuck out and hate him....
do you read what they fuck you're writing...it totally goes anything history has taught anyone else... he was black in the 1960's.... he was a cocky black in the 1960's, you act like that's not reason enough for america to hate him at the time
you're a fucking idiot... you wonder why your religion is so fucked up, it's retards like you that think everyone is out to oppress them.... do us all a favor and grow some balls. strab some fireworks and gasoline on yourself and try to blow up a walmart.... just please don't make me clown you again
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What the hell are you guys talking about. He may have gotten mixed reactions in the beginning, but he did such a good job ripping off Gorgeous GEorge and Freddie Blassie that the crowds began to love him a lot by the time the late 60s and early 70s came around. George Foreman was quiet reserved black guy that waved the US flag, but Ali was the good guy when they fought. Not just in Africa but in the US. Foreman was seen as the villain.
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What the hell are you guys talking about. He may have gotten mixed reactions in the beginning, but he did such a good job ripping off Gorgeous GEorge and Freddie Blassie that the crowds began to love him a lot by the time the late 60s and early 70s came around. George Foreman was quiet reserved black guy that waved the US flag, but Ali was the good guy when they fought. Not just in Africa but in the US. Foreman was seen as the villain.
man this just to further prove that everyone hates muslims
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What the hell are you guys talking about. He may have gotten mixed reactions in the beginning, but he did such a good job ripping off Gorgeous GEorge and Freddie Blassie that the crowds began to love him a lot by the time the late 60s and early 70s came around. George Foreman was quiet reserved black guy that waved the US flag, but Ali was the good guy when they fought. Not just in Africa but in the US. Foreman was seen as the villain.
man this just to further prove that everyone hates muslims
Huh?
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What the hell are you guys talking about. He may have gotten mixed reactions in the beginning, but he did such a good job ripping off Gorgeous GEorge and Freddie Blassie that the crowds began to love him a lot by the time the late 60s and early 70s came around. George Foreman was quiet reserved black guy that waved the US flag, but Ali was the good guy when they fought. Not just in Africa but in the US. Foreman was seen as the villain.
man this just to further prove that everyone hates muslims
the confused, brainwashed, white cracker of a muslim said that Ali was hated because he turned muslim... i called him an idiot and you just further backed me up
Huh?
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the white people who hate Ali, really hate the fact that he had the "nerve" to change his name to Muhammad Ali. Because Muhammad Ali is about as Muslim of a name you can get, Muhammad is the name of the Prophet who revealed the Noble Qu'ran, and Ali is the name of the cousin of the Prophet, and the most famous Muslim leader to follow Muhammad.
Had he been a young, cocky newcomer, Christian, Jesus worshippin black boxer named Cassius, they would not have given him the same grief. Although it wasn't the only reason they hated him, Clay changing his slave name to a righteous Arabic name- Ali- was a huge factor.
I hate Ali, but it has nothing to do with his conversion, or the man himself really. I hate the idea that a guy so protected thouhghout his career because he could draw big money gets so much more acclaim than guys like Joe Lewis, or Marciano. True champions who didn't have to obiously cheat to win. Ali would use the head lock so many times in a match you'd think he was a wrestle. He wore a stomach gaurd that covered almost everything up to his ribs and wasn't asked to lower it once. And let's not forget how he dodged Foreman for the rematch after a probable fixed fight. Saying Ali is the best boxer of all time is like saying Bruce Lee is the best fighter of all time. You might fool the loons, and you may not get to many people to say it on TV, but everyone that really knows what they're talking about knows better. Ali was a charasmatic guy who made a lot of money, and as a promoter there is no one I'd rather have as champ, but as a realist I know better. Just watch the fights and see all the liberties he gets away with and how his opponents always fight worse on the rematch after they had beaten him. When he beat Frasier because Frasier could see and the fight had to stop, Ali couldn't walk and the fight would have ended anyway whether Frasier coulld or couldn't see properly. When he fought the rematch with Spinks you'll notice that Leon isn't punching back, while just a few months earlier he was hitting Ali with everything and beat him. It's a shame Ali had to pay the promoters back at the end of his career. "We do you a favour, you do us a favour". The promoters spent a lot of time to make him seem better than he was so Ali had to sacrifice his health and get pummeled to make Larry Holmes seem better than he was. It's just a shame Holmes had no charisma on the microphone.
P.S. I wonder if he would have changed his name if he new the large part Muslims had in enslaving black people over the years.
i disagree with everything you said about ali, he was the greatest, he went against all odds and fucked up george foreman, no-one believed ali would win but ali, sure it wasnt the best fight, but ali fucked him up in the end, and put georges career on hold for 2 years... same as the other dude, the first match he lost by points, and then he won the second match knockout, i saw the match and i know it wasnt fixed, also ali faught him after he retired, he wasnt even in his prime....
and i also believe bruce lee is the best known fighter in the world (maybe there is a monk somewhere in a cave ready to tear shit up, i wont out rule that)...
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the white people who hate Ali, really hate the fact that he had the "nerve" to change his name to Muhammad Ali. Because Muhammad Ali is about as Muslim of a name you can get, Muhammad is the name of the Prophet who revealed the Noble Qu'ran, and Ali is the name of the cousin of the Prophet, and the most famous Muslim leader to follow Muhammad.
Had he been a young, cocky newcomer, Christian, Jesus worshippin black boxer named Cassius, they would not have given him the same grief. Although it wasn't the only reason they hated him, Clay changing his slave name to a righteous Arabic name- Ali- was a huge factor.
I hate Ali, but it has nothing to do with his conversion, or the man himself really. I hate the idea that a guy so protected thouhghout his career because he could draw big money gets so much more acclaim than guys like Joe Lewis, or Marciano. True champions who didn't have to obiously cheat to win. Ali would use the head lock so many times in a match you'd think he was a wrestle. He wore a stomach gaurd that covered almost everything up to his ribs and wasn't asked to lower it once. And let's not forget how he dodged Foreman for the rematch after a probable fixed fight. Saying Ali is the best boxer of all time is like saying Bruce Lee is the best fighter of all time. You might fool the loons, and you may not get to many people to say it on TV, but everyone that really knows what they're talking about knows better. Ali was a charasmatic guy who made a lot of money, and as a promoter there is no one I'd rather have as champ, but as a realist I know better. Just watch the fights and see all the liberties he gets away with and how his opponents always fight worse on the rematch after they had beaten him. When he beat Frasier because Frasier could see and the fight had to stop, Ali couldn't walk and the fight would have ended anyway whether Frasier coulld or couldn't see properly. When he fought the rematch with Spinks you'll notice that Leon isn't punching back, while just a few months earlier he was hitting Ali with everything and beat him. It's a shame Ali had to pay the promoters back at the end of his career. "We do you a favour, you do us a favour". The promoters spent a lot of time to make him seem better than he was so Ali had to sacrifice his health and get pummeled to make Larry Holmes seem better than he was. It's just a shame Holmes had no charisma on the microphone.
P.S. I wonder if he would have changed his name if he new the large part Muslims had in enslaving black people over the years.
i disagree with everything you said about ali, he was the greatest, he went against all odds and fucked up george foreman, no-one believed ali would win but ali, sure it wasnt the best fight, but ali fucked him up in the end, and put georges career on hold for 2 years... same as the other dude, the first match he lost by points, and then he won the second match knockout, i saw the match and i know it wasnt fixed, also ali faught him after he retired, he wasnt even in his prime....
and i also believe bruce lee is the best known fighter in the world (maybe there is a monk somewhere in a cave ready to tear shit up, i wont out rule that)...
Of course you think all that because you are a victim of propaganda. What else do you believe? That there really are WMDs in Iraq? Or maybe that there is no racism present in the US? How about the world being hateful towards the US only because they are jealoys of freedom?
And you get your facts wrong. 1) Ali never KOed Spinks. 2) Foreman was only gone about a year, and had only fought about once a year before that anyway (since winning the title). There was no rematch for a reason. 3) The average top level MMA heavyweight would fuck up Lee. Fedor or CroCop would destroy him. Bruce was like 140 lbs and has no wrestling skills or legal submission skills. He's a one dimensional fighter who's best move was striking you in the balls.
Also Ali has 4 lossseds I believe, Marciano has 0 losses. How is Ali better all time?
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hahahahah i never heard such bullshit about ali and bruce lee being wack in my life befo...hahahahaha, ali a cheat?!?! hahahaha...........its nearly as funny as claimin canada got real hoods, i been their, the average kid think he hood livin in a big clean neighbourhood
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hahahahah i never heard such bullshit about ali and bruce lee being wack in my life befo...hahahahaha, ali a cheat?!?! hahahaha...........its nearly as funny as claimin canada got real hoods, i been their, the average kid think he hood livin in a big clean neighbourhood
I never said either was wack. They just aren't THE best. And Toronto does have hoods. Where do you live? If it isn't New York, LA, or Chicago, my city is bigger than yours.
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the white people who hate Ali, really hate the fact that he had the "nerve" to change his name to Muhammad Ali. Because Muhammad Ali is about as Muslim of a name you can get, Muhammad is the name of the Prophet who revealed the Noble Qu'ran, and Ali is the name of the cousin of the Prophet, and the most famous Muslim leader to follow Muhammad.
Had he been a young, cocky newcomer, Christian, Jesus worshippin black boxer named Cassius, they would not have given him the same grief. Although it wasn't the only reason they hated him, Clay changing his slave name to a righteous Arabic name- Ali- was a huge factor.
I hate Ali,
You just proved, again, that you're the biggest fucking loser on this board. If you hate Muhammad Ali, you must be a sad, sad motherfucker.
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Oh, and for the record, I think the crowd was booing him for both reasons... 1. that he was a cocky black kid, unknown, who they viewed as a fluke, and who they thought was a loudmouth, and 2. that he had the audacity to change his name from Cassius to Muhammad. I will say on the part of the ring announcers, and the people giving the interview, they treated him with respect. The ring announcer referred to him as Muhammad Ali both times, and the interviewers fucked up three times, and called him Cassius, and everytime they apologized and recalled him Muhammad without a negative remark. Also, there was a famous interview with Howard Cossell where he refused to call him anything but Cassius, and Muhammad told him it was disrespectful, and Cossell apologized, and said he was right, and that he'd never call him that again, and that was that.
BTW, Ali is easily the greatest heavyweight to ever fight, there's no denying it by anyone with half a fucking mind or eyes that they can open without their own prejudices coming into play. I'd be the first one to give somebody credit over Ali, but the fact is there simply is no one in his league. You always hear the Joe Lous and Rocky Marciano (undefeated) bullshit, but come on, you've got to be joking. Ali's defeat of George Forman, and his legendary fights with Joe Frazier should be enough to convince anybody that he was literally a god in the ring.
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the white people who hate Ali, really hate the fact that he had the "nerve" to change his name to Muhammad Ali. Because Muhammad Ali is about as Muslim of a name you can get, Muhammad is the name of the Prophet who revealed the Noble Qu'ran, and Ali is the name of the cousin of the Prophet, and the most famous Muslim leader to follow Muhammad.
Had he been a young, cocky newcomer, Christian, Jesus worshippin black boxer named Cassius, they would not have given him the same grief. Although it wasn't the only reason they hated him, Clay changing his slave name to a righteous Arabic name- Ali- was a huge factor.
I hate Ali,
You just proved, again, that you're the biggest fucking loser on this board. If you hate Muhammad Ali, you must be a sad, sad motherfucker.
Nope, it's still you. You can't even take my whole quote where I make it clear I have nothing against him personally. You idiot.
Secondly; have you ever even seen Louis or Marciano fight? I bet you've seen as many Louis fights as you've heard Springsteen songs. Louis was a true champion. Never backed down and never dodged a rematch like Ali did. Louis wouldn't even where the belt until he beat the guy that beat him earlier in his career. The guy ewas all class and all skill. Rock beat him, but that was an old washed up Louis, not the Louis in his prime. How about Foreman, sure he lost to Ali, but Ali lost to fighters too, except Ali got rematches, where Foremannever got his with Ali. What Foreman has that no one else does is two Title reigns in different eras. How many fighters can with the belt in their mid 20s then 20 years later do it again in their mid 40s? When Ali was in his mid 40s he was so banged up he developed diseases. In his late 30s he was getting his ass handed to him by Larry Holmes who was good at best. I have seen every major Ali fight, and I tell you the guy was all hype. Boxing is like that. Look at Primo Carnera (you probably don't know who that is), he spent his whole career living off of his drawing power in the box office and charisma, he was big but had little skill. What eer fights weren't fixed were a joke. They would feed him second rate guys and pass them off as stars. Until he met Max Baer, who killed men in the ring literally.
Another reason I feel the Foreman fight was fixed was Foreman lost by KO. When has Foreman ever lost by KO. In his late 40s when he fought big young puchers like Briggs and Morrison he wouldn't fall down, but Ali who was never acclaimed for his punching did knock him out. There are 3 possibilities in my mind for the Foreman loss to Ali; 1) they put something in his water, 2) he took the dive for more money or 3) they paid his corner to keep telling him to run around and punch during the rope a dope. Foreman had one of te best corner men in the business, there is no way they wouldnm;'t have realized Ali's plan. There is a 4th reason but it only applies to people who belive in the magic of African Shaman, and the hex they put on him before the fight.
Hey Trauma, I bet you think Hulk Hogan was a better in-ring worker than Ric Flair back in the 80s. LOL. And Billy Jean is a better piece of music than Mozart's Symphony no. 41 in C major.
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Joe Lewis > Muhammed Clay
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Joe Lewis > Muhammed Clay
lol@ Muhammed Clay...
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Hey Trauma, I bet you think Hulk Hogan was a better in-ring worker than Ric Flair back in the 80s. LOL. And Billy Jean is a better piece of music than Mozart's Symphony no. 41 in C major.
well would you believe Mozart was all hype ? back in the days Mozart wasnt the best composer, he just was the most popular, therefore people only listened to his shit and didnt give other composers a decent chance.
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there is no way the foreman fight was fixed... ali knocked him out because foreman was so worn down, maybe his corner told foreman not to hit ali too hard, but ali's cockyness got the better of foreman and he did it out of anger anyway...
the frazier fight wasnt fixed either, he lost the first bout and won the second, both bouts were very similar...
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Hey Trauma, I bet you think Hulk Hogan was a better in-ring worker than Ric Flair back in the 80s. LOL. And Billy Jean is a better piece of music than Mozart's Symphony no. 41 in C major.
You're so out of your league when you talk to me about these things, it's not even funny. I guess you think someone like me doesn't know the difference between a Ric Flair match and a Hulk Hogan match, but I've watched both, hundreds of times, and of course I'm intelligent enough to know that Flair was a much better wrestler.
You must think you're more in tune because you've actually heard a few Mozart works in your life, but motherfucker I'm a musician myself, and of course I realize that Mozart's music was much more complicated and a better piece of work than anything Michael Jackson did.
Did you think you'd blow me away with some bullshit like that?
Now here's what you don't know. Those weren't soft punches George Forman got hit with in that fight. If you'd actually watch the fight, dumbass, you'd know it couldn't possibly have been thrown, because Ali didn't lay on the ropes the entire time, he was consistantly hitting Foreman with everything he had, the entire fucking night. You'd know that Foreman hit Ali a few times pretty good too, and you'd know that Foreman would become enraged when Ali would go to the ropes, and was swinging like a madman. You'd see the clouded eyes of Foreman as he eventually got so tired he couldn't hardly raise his gloves, and you would have seen the beautiful 3 punch combo Ali laid Foreman out with. If you think after watching that fight that it was a work, you're a fucking drunk.
Second, Joe Frazier fought Muhammad Ali 3 fucking times, not 2, and all 3 were great fights. You dont' throw a fight in the fucking 15th round and lose it by decision.
You must be fucking retarded to think that Muhammad Ali wasn't a bad motherfucker. Your comment about "wasn't considered a great hitter" shows you know absolutely nothing about the subject. He WAS considered a heavy hitter, that's the hole in your equation. Muhammad Ali would knock a bitch like you out with 1 jab.
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Hey Trauma, I bet you think Hulk Hogan was a better in-ring worker than Ric Flair back in the 80s. LOL. And Billy Jean is a better piece of music than Mozart's Symphony no. 41 in C major.
You're so out of your league when you talk to me about these things, it's not even funny. I guess you think someone like me doesn't know the difference between a Ric Flair match and a Hulk Hogan match, but I've watched both, hundreds of times, and of course I'm intelligent enough to know that Flair was a much better wrestler.
You must think you're more in tune because you've actually heard a few Mozart works in your life, but motherfucker I'm a musician myself, and of course I realize that Mozart's music was much more complicated and a better piece of work than anything Michael Jackson did.
Did you think you'd blow me away with some bullshit like that?
Now here's what you don't know. Those weren't soft punches George Forman got hit with in that fight. If you'd actually watch the fight, dumbass, you'd know it couldn't possibly have been thrown, because Ali didn't lay on the ropes the entire time, he was consistantly hitting Foreman with everything he had, the entire fucking night. You'd know that Foreman hit Ali a few times pretty good too, and you'd know that Foreman would become enraged when Ali would go to the ropes, and was swinging like a madman. You'd see the clouded eyes of Foreman as he eventually got so tired he couldn't hardly raise his gloves, and you would have seen the beautiful 3 punch combo Ali laid Foreman out with. If you think after watching that fight that it was a work, you're a fucking drunk.
Second, Joe Frazier fought Muhammad Ali 3 fucking times, not 2, and all 3 were great fights. You dont' throw a fight in the fucking 15th round and lose it by decision.
You must be fucking retarded to think that Muhammad Ali wasn't a bad motherfucker. Your comment about "wasn't considered a great hitter" shows you know absolutely nothing about the subject. He WAS considered a heavy hitter, that's the hole in your equation. Muhammad Ali would knock a bitch like you out with 1 jab.
The Flair and Mozart stuff were obvious jokes. Anyone that thinks Hogan was better than Flair in the ring or MJ was better than Mozart is an obvious fool. As opposed to the not so obvious fool that thinks Ali was by far the greatest of all time.
When I said Ali wasn't a big puncher, I meant it wasn't his strong point. Kind like how Holyfield is not known for his punches, but he could still easily KO me. When I think of punchers I think Mike Tyson, or George Foreman, who are known for their raw power. The point was that in the mid to late 90s an old Foreman faced off with young guys who could punch harder than Ali could and Foreman never dropped. The only real drop I ever saw Foreman take was against Lyle in '76 and Foreman got right back up and KOed Lyle.
As for the Ali fight, watch every other Foreman fight before it and see how different he comes to Ali. The Foreman I knew came in right off the bat and started clubbing. The Foreman I saw with Ali had Ali in the corner and hit him in the face with no power behind the punches. Put a little dope in his water and that's what can happen. Like I said before, where was the rematch. When Ali won it was a clear upset ahown by the odds going in, yet Ali never gave Foreman a rematch. Like you said Ali got two rematches with Frazier (the New Yoirk fight gets lost in the middle), but Forem,an got no rematches. You know why? Because there was no way Ali would win again. Why do I think Foreman had to lose? Because if he beat Ali that night like he beat Frazier thenall the money to be made in boxing for the next few years would be gone. THere was no one left for Foreman to beat and his quick matches were getting tedious. Don't you understand that Boxing and Pro Wrestling aren't that different. All of Ali's fights weren't legit, just like all of Marciano's fights weren't legit. Over the the years trainers, cutmen, and boxers themselves have come out and talked about how dirty the business is, and how money talks. I suggest you watch Humphrey Bogart's last moie before he died "The Harder They Fall". It may be just a movie but it's very accurate in how boxing really works. That's why I like pro wrestling better. At least they tell us it's bullshit.
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Ali was fast too, he could throw 6 or 7 puches in a matter of seconds...
his footwork was exquisite, no-one to this day will compare to ali's footwork...
plus ali said in the upcoming interviews he would dance all over foreman, foreman was expecting ali to dance, and try to out-punch foreman, thats why maybe he didnt go into the fight how he normally would...
p.S: fuck a conspiracy theory, a spade is a spade.
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p.S: fuck a conspiracy theory, a spade is a spade.
Exactly! And Bush only wanted to free Iraq out of the goodness of his heart and the safety of Americans from the WMDs. It had nothing to do with oil.
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but the thing is the truth always comes out in the end... how could all the professional boxers, presentators, sports related people all be fooled that ali is the greatest ? he has 4 dvd's out, including a movie dedicated to him... Ali is the greatest.
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i bet youre one of the people that think ice cube was a more talented rapper than pac...
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but the thing is the truth always comes out in the end... how could all the professional boxers, presentators, sports related people all be fooled that ali is the greatest ? he has 4 dvd's out, including a movie dedicated to him... Ali is the greatest.
Talk to pro boxing analysts, and boxers, and ask them if Ali is the undisputed best ever. Sure if you ask Will Smith, or some of those tools on ESPN and HBO sports you'll only here Ali. Was he great? yes, will some say he's the best? Sure. But most will not. Guys like Lewis and Marciano will be said a lot too. Robinson will always be known as hte best pounf for pund guy, but if you ask the current crop of dodos they'll still try and convince you it's Roy Jones. Tiger Woods is agreat golfer. If you ask the hosts of 106 and Park on BET they'll tell you he's the best ever. If youy ask real Golf journalists you'll hear a lot of Sman Snead, Jack Nicklaus, and Arnold Palmer.
i bet youre one of the people that think ice cube was a more talented rapper than pac...
Actually I'm a Pac fan, but I'd have no problem with someone say Cube is better. Cube had some real gold with Ameikkkas Most and DC. Theext couple like Lethal Injection and Predator were good too. Pac had a couple mediocre albums to start then had a decent one in Thuglife and really broke out with Me Against the World. AEOM was great and so was Makaveli, but that's it. Like I said, I like Pac better, but it can be argued.
A better analogy would be calling Run DMC the first to bring out rap/rock when all they did was a crappier version of the same Aerosmith song. (same lyrics with a worse flow).
Calling Ali the best ever with out mentioning Joe Louis, is like calling Biggie the best ever (a title he gets by a lot of people) and forgetting about Rakim.
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Shallow is an arrogant motherfucker in the subtle kind of way, but have to say homie knows what he talks about more often than the average homie
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Oh, and for the record, I think the crowd was booing him for both reasons... 1. that he was a cocky black kid, unknown, who they viewed as a fluke, and who they thought was a loudmouth, and 2. that he had the audacity to change his name from Cassius to Muhammad. I will say on the part of the ring announcers, and the people giving the interview, they treated him with respect. The ring announcer referred to him as Muhammad Ali both times, and the interviewers fucked up three times, and called him Cassius, and everytime they apologized and recalled him Muhammad without a negative remark. Also, there was a famous interview with Howard Cossell where he refused to call him anything but Cassius, and Muhammad told him it was disrespectful, and Cossell apologized, and said he was right, and that he'd never call him that again, and that was that.
BTW, Ali is easily the greatest heavyweight to ever fight, there's no denying it by anyone with half a fucking mind or eyes that they can open without their own prejudices coming into play. I'd be the first one to give somebody credit over Ali, but the fact is there simply is no one in his league. You always hear the Joe Lous and Rocky Marciano (undefeated) bullshit, but come on, you've got to be joking. Ali's defeat of George Forman, and his legendary fights with Joe Frazier should be enough to convince anybody that he was literally a god in the ring.
they booed him the first time when he was just a regular cocky black guy... you think all of a sudden they were gonna cheer for him the second time around? he could have changed his name to Brian Hirshel and been an agnostic jew and he would ahve still been booed because it was the 60's ad a cocky black guy came from no where to know out the champ and the proceded to claim he was the greatest
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Shallow is an arrogant motherfucker in the subtle kind of way, but have to say homie knows what he talks about more often than the average homie
I try not to be arrogant but I was when responding to Captain. Captain, I apologize. My arrogance towards you was unwarranted. You respectfully disagreed with my opinion and I jumped all over you. It won't happen again, (unless you start it). Once again, I'm sorry.
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Actually I'm a Pac fan, but I'd have no problem with someone say Cube is better. Cube had some real gold with Ameikkkas Most and DC. Theext couple like Lethal Injection and Predator were good too. Pac had a couple mediocre albums to start then had a decent one in Thuglife and really broke out with Me Against the World. AEOM was great and so was Makaveli, but that's it. Like I said, I like Pac better, but it can be argued.
A better analogy would be calling Run DMC the first to bring out rap/rock when all they did was a crappier version of the same Aerosmith song. (same lyrics with a worse flow).
Calling Ali the best ever with out mentioning Joe Louis, is like calling Biggie the best ever (a title he gets by a lot of people) and forgetting about Rakim.
Not only is Pac the greatest rapper ever, but you could take one of his posthumous releases like "R U Still Down" for example, and put it against all of Ice Cubes records combined, and Pac would still come out on top. And that was an album that never would have seen the light of day had it not been for Pac's death.
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Actually I'm a Pac fan, but I'd have no problem with someone say Cube is better. Cube had some real gold with Ameikkkas Most and DC. Theext couple like Lethal Injection and Predator were good too. Pac had a couple mediocre albums to start then had a decent one in Thuglife and really broke out with Me Against the World. AEOM was great and so was Makaveli, but that's it. Like I said, I like Pac better, but it can be argued.
A better analogy would be calling Run DMC the first to bring out rap/rock when all they did was a crappier version of the same Aerosmith song. (same lyrics with a worse flow).
Calling Ali the best ever with out mentioning Joe Louis, is like calling Biggie the best ever (a title he gets by a lot of people) and forgetting about Rakim.
Not only is Pac the greatest rapper ever, but you could take one of his posthumous releases like "R U Still Down" for example, and put it against all of Ice Cubes records combined, and Pac would still come out on top. And that was an album that never would have seen the light of day had it not been for Pac's death.
you're a nut job
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Actually I'm a Pac fan, but I'd have no problem with someone say Cube is better. Cube had some real gold with Ameikkkas Most and DC. Theext couple like Lethal Injection and Predator were good too. Pac had a couple mediocre albums to start then had a decent one in Thuglife and really broke out with Me Against the World. AEOM was great and so was Makaveli, but that's it. Like I said, I like Pac better, but it can be argued.
A better analogy would be calling Run DMC the first to bring out rap/rock when all they did was a crappier version of the same Aerosmith song. (same lyrics with a worse flow).
Calling Ali the best ever with out mentioning Joe Louis, is like calling Biggie the best ever (a title he gets by a lot of people) and forgetting about Rakim.
Not only is Pac the greatest rapper ever, but you could take one of his posthumous releases like "R U Still Down" for example, and put it against all of Ice Cubes records combined, and Pac would still come out on top. And that was an album that never would have seen the light of day had it not been for Pac's death.
you're a nut job
LOL I was just about to type the same thing after reading that nonsense.
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Listen to how Infinite feels about Pac!
http://www.wcmixtapes.com/lmao.mp3
Seriously though, 95% of the trash that comes out of your mouth is bat shit crazy. Get on some medication.
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Shallow is an arrogant motherfucker in the subtle kind of way, but have to say homie knows what he talks about more often than the average homie
I try not to be arrogant but I was when responding to Captain. Captain, I apologize. My arrogance towards you was unwarranted. You respectfully disagreed with my opinion and I jumped all over you. It won't happen again, (unless you start it). Once again, I'm sorry.
all good ;)
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Listen to how Infinite feels about Pac!
http://www.wcmixtapes.com/lmao.mp3
Seriously though, 95% of the trash that comes out of your mouth is bat shit crazy. Get on some medication.
WTF ?? !! who did that shit ? man thats the wakest shit i've ever heard...
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WTF ?? !! who did that shit ? man thats the wakest shit i've ever heard...
That is Inifinite aka Allah's slave aka dipshit rapping. Whenver you see his ignorant ass post, just think of that song and laugh.
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WTF ?? !! who did that shit ? man thats the wakest shit i've ever heard...
That is Inifinite aka Allah's slave aka dipshit rapping. Whenver you see his ignorant ass post, just think of that song and laugh.
wtf ? i thought you were joking its infinite... how could he post that shit up ? man theres no flow nothing, it doesnt even rhyme...
the prophet ? the god ? wtf ? hard as rock ? infinite, sorry man thats some wak shit...
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but the thing is the truth always comes out in the end... how could all the professional boxers, presentators, sports related people all be fooled that ali is the greatest ? he has 4 dvd's out, including a movie dedicated to him... Ali is the greatest.
All you have to do is watch the fights. I watched the thrilla in manilla tonight. For a dumbass to say that Joe Frazier threw that fight, you'd have to be smoking crack. Ali was so fucking fast, in the LATE prime of his career, that he'd hit Frazier in the face 3 times before the guy could get his gloves up in the last few rounds. The guy had blood pouring out of his face, but he threw the fight, right? The guy got beat up for 14 rounds, but yet he threw the fight, right? The guy beat Ali in the first fight, but then threw the next two? Or maybe he just threw one? If he only threw one, and Ali beat him fair in the other, doesn't that mean Ali was still the better fighter? It's just mindless, ludicrious dribble from some dumbass who thinks it's cool to go against the commonly accepted truth: Ali is GOD. Ali hit Joe Frazier with a combo so vicious in the 14th round, I could not believe Frazier was still standing. About halfway through the round, they're showing half of the ring or so, and Ali's standing on the left, facing the camera and Joe. He takes 3 steps to his left, hits Frazier with a left jab almost backhanded like a pimp slap, and then throws this thunderous right cross all the way from behind his fucking head and just NAILS Joe with it, the whole match Frazier's head was bouncing around like a fucking kickball but yet he threw the match. Simply, utterly rediculous.
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but the thing is the truth always comes out in the end... how could all the professional boxers, presentators, sports related people all be fooled that ali is the greatest ? he has 4 dvd's out, including a movie dedicated to him... Ali is the greatest.
All you have to do is watch the fights. I watched the thrilla in manilla tonight. For a dumbass to say that Joe Frazier threw that fight, you'd have to be smoking crack. Ali was so fucking fast, in the LATE prime of his career, that he'd hit Frazier in the face 3 times before the guy could get his gloves up in the last few rounds. The guy had blood pouring out of his face, but he threw the fight, right? The guy got beat up for 14 rounds, but yet he threw the fight, right? The guy beat Ali in the first fight, but then threw the next two? Or maybe he just threw one? If he only threw one, and Ali beat him fair in the other, doesn't that mean Ali was still the better fighter? It's just mindless, ludicrious dribble from some dumbass who thinks it's cool to go against the commonly accepted truth: Ali is GOD. Ali hit Joe Frazier with a combo so vicious in the 14th round, I could not believe Frazier was still standing. About halfway through the round, they're showing half of the ring or so, and Ali's standing on the left, facing the camera and Joe. He takes 3 steps to his left, hits Frazier with a left jab almost backhanded like a pimp slap, and then throws this thunderous right cross all the way from behind his fucking head and just NAILS Joe with it, the whole match Frazier's head was bouncing around like a fucking kickball but yet he threw the match. Simply, utterly rediculous.
i havent seen the ali fights in a long time, now this topics been brought out i will check em out again... it wont be easy to convince me ali isnt the greatest, but shallow usually does have valid points, although i definelty disagree with him on this one...
Shallow did you know that ali was the first boxer to get the world title in like 2 years of boxing ? he was the fastest boxer, with best footwork, that set himself a goal and achieved it faster than anyone in history... him having such confidence and charisma is just a cherry on the cake...
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but shallow usually does have valid points,
BWAAAHHHH AHAHHH HHAHAHA HHAHAHAA
When you talk about Ali, all you have to say is this:
When he was a nobody, and fought the Heavyweight Champion of the World, he knocked him out in the 7th round and told everybody he was the greatest, then went about proving it for the rest of his career.
Shallow does not have valid points. Above he said Ali developed diseases from the beatings he took in the ring. Then he said Ali's fights were thrown. So they were thrown, but yet he got beat so bad in fixed matches that he developed Parkinsons, a disease that you cannot develop by getting beat up. He doesn't have good points, he's a childish fool who disagrees with commonly held beliefs because he thinks it makes him more intelligent to challenge even the most undeniable truths.
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but shallow usually does have valid points,
BWAAAHHHH AHAHHH HHAHAHA HHAHAHAA
When you talk about Ali, all you have to say is this:
When he was a nobody, and fought the Heavyweight Champion of the World, he knocked him out in the 7th round and told everybody he was the greatest, then went about proving it for the rest of his career.
Shallow does not have valid points. Above he said Ali developed diseases from the beatings he took in the ring. Then he said Ali's fights were thrown. So they were thrown, but yet he got beat so bad in fixed matches that he developed Parkinsons, a disease that you cannot develop by getting beat up. He doesn't have good points, he's a childish fool who disagrees with commonly held beliefs because he thinks it makes him more intelligent to challenge even the most undeniable truths.
yeh i said he usually has valid points, but not in this topic, about religion n shit... thats the only reason i even considered his argument, doesnt mean i believe it...
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all that boxing cant be good for u, and how the fuck do u know his disease didnt have anything to do with him fighting for a living.
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all that boxing cant be good for u, and how the fuck do u know his disease didnt have anything to do with him fighting for a living.
You don't develop parkinson's from being beaten. Ali never even got beat very much, find a picture of him with a scar on his face. 1 pic.
On top of that, the dipshit was saying all Ali's fights were fixed. If they were fixed, how would he get beaten into a disease?
It's a childish comment by a child.
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all that boxing cant be good for u, and how the fuck do u know his disease didnt have anything to do with him fighting for a living.
You don't develop parkinson's from being beaten. Ali never even got beat very much, find a picture of him with a scar on his face. 1 pic.
On top of that, the dipshit was saying all Ali's fights were fixed. If they were fixed, how would he get beaten into a disease?
It's a childish comment by a child.
When did I say every fight was fixed?
I admitted Ali was great, and easily one of the greats, but he was also protected, like all drawing champions are. Watch the Manila you so nicely summarized, and watch Ali at the end of the 14th round fall in to the corner and struggle to get up to have his hand raised. I'm not saying Frazier threw the fight. I'm saying it was fixed not to go 15. Not by Frazier, but by the commission. No matter who is champ, boxing is dirty. When Marciano was champ he had the commission on his side. Just like when Tyson was champ.
Ali's liberties were very apparent. He never lost points for continously head locking guys after being warned, and he wore a stomach gaurd in his fight with Chuvalo, a fucking stomach gaurd, and still he was in the hospital that night spitting up blood while Chuvallo was out dancing with his wife.
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all that boxing cant be good for u, and how the fuck do u know his disease didnt have anything to do with him fighting for a living.
You don't develop parkinson's from being beaten. Ali never even got beat very much, find a picture of him with a scar on his face. 1 pic.
On top of that, the dipshit was saying all Ali's fights were fixed. If they were fixed, how would he get beaten into a disease?
It's a childish comment by a child.
When did I say every fight was fixed?
I admitted Ali was great, and easily one of the greats, but he was also protected, like all drawing champions are. Watch the Manila you so nicely summarized, and watch Ali at the end of the 14th round fall in to the corner and struggle to get up to have his hand raised. I'm not saying Frazier threw the fight. I'm saying it was fixed not to go 15. Not by Frazier, but by the commission. No matter who is champ, boxing is dirty. When Marciano was champ he had the commission on his side. Just like when Tyson was champ.
Ali's liberties were very apparent. He never lost points for continously head locking guys after being warned, and he wore a stomach gaurd in his fight with Chuvalo, a fucking stomach gaurd, and still he was in the hospital that night spitting up blood while Chuvallo was out dancing with his wife.
i think boxing has changed alot since ali's day... now its alot more commercial, i also find it hard to believe that Ali would allow a fight to be fixed...
plus, i cant believe you prefer wrestling to boxing :grumpy:
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all that boxing cant be good for u, and how the fuck do u know his disease didnt have anything to do with him fighting for a living.
You don't develop parkinson's from being beaten. Ali never even got beat very much, find a picture of him with a scar on his face. 1 pic.
On top of that, the dipshit was saying all Ali's fights were fixed. If they were fixed, how would he get beaten into a disease?
It's a childish comment by a child.
When did I say every fight was fixed?
I admitted Ali was great, and easily one of the greats, but he was also protected, like all drawing champions are. Watch the Manila you so nicely summarized, and watch Ali at the end of the 14th round fall in to the corner and struggle to get up to have his hand raised. I'm not saying Frazier threw the fight. I'm saying it was fixed not to go 15. Not by Frazier, but by the commission. No matter who is champ, boxing is dirty. When Marciano was champ he had the commission on his side. Just like when Tyson was champ.
Ali's liberties were very apparent. He never lost points for continously head locking guys after being warned, and he wore a stomach gaurd in his fight with Chuvalo, a fucking stomach gaurd, and still he was in the hospital that night spitting up blood while Chuvallo was out dancing with his wife.
i think boxing has changed alot since ali's day... now its alot more commercial, i also find it hard to believe that Ali would allow a fight to be fixed...
plus, i cant believe you prefer wrestling to boxing :grumpy:
Ali wouldn't have to be in on it. Just like he probably wasn't in on being fed to Larry Holmes in his old age. And Wrestling is an art form if you watch the right wrestlers.
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fuck u u fucking retard trauma i never fucking said the fights were fixed, stop trying to make urself sound intelegent ur a fucking idiot
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fuck u u fucking retard trauma i never fucking said the fights were fixed, stop trying to make urself sound intelegent ur a fucking idiot
I think Trauma was talking to me. But you were right with everything you said.
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I don't think ali would let them fix a fight with his pride and stuff...he kinda made his image off of cockiness and stuff...and it worked
Oh and infinite, I sincerely think you are a DUMB ASS for saying that Tupac's "R U Still Down" cd is better than all of Ice Cubes records combined.