West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: UAK on July 23, 2005, 06:52:37 PM
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http://www.d12world.com/board/showthread.php?t=231058
:P
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A man that runs from the police as fast as he can does not have a clear conscience, so in that way it's probably a good thing he's dead now.
London also sent out a message with this shit: if police think someone could be about to blow up something, police will shoot to kill.
I support this action of the London police in every single way. Like Trauma said: don't prosecute, execute!
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A man that runs from the police as fast as he can does not have a clear conscience, so in that way it's probably a good thing he's dead now.
London also sent out a message with this shit: if police think someone could be about to blow up something, police will shoot to kill.
I support this action of the London police in every single way. Like Trauma said: don't prosecute, execute!
Trauma is hick that's why...what if the guy didn't know English? :)
British police should put down their guns 24/7, pussy ass to hold him down and shoot him 5 times in the head and then say he was innocent.
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If the police wants you to stop, they will make it very clear. You don't need to understand a language for that.
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If the police wants you to stop, they will make it very clear. You don't need to understand a language for that.
Kill everyone that runs from the police ;)
Whatever happen to http://www.werenotafraid.com/images/244/index.php ::)
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They thought he was going to let a bomb explode, so they killed him.
If this man did let a bomb explode, everybody would have blamed the police for not handling correctly. Well, not everybody of course: extremists like for example Infinite, King Tech and you, Janal, would have praised the guy that is dead now.
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They thought he was going to let a bomb explode, so they killed him.
Why run then, if you can press the remote ???
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A man that runs from the police as fast as he can does not have a clear conscience, so in that way it's probably a good thing he's dead now.
London also sent out a message with this shit: if police think someone could be about to blow up something, police will shoot to kill.
I support this action of the London police in every single way. Like Trauma said: don't prosecute, execute!
Police in plain clothes, don't forget that.
For all we know, the Brazilian dude could have received threats from Hells Angels, or the Russian mob etc.
You'd run as well.
There was a case in Sweden 3 weeks ago, where a Norwegian finance swindler, wanted all over Europe, was chased by Swedish police in plain blue cars, and the swindler decided to shoot himself dead rather than being caught by whom might have been Hells Angels or Bandidos, after the dude received threats from half of Europe.
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Police in plain clothes, don't forget that.
Damn that's fucked up :-X
(http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/WORLD/europe/07/23/london.tube/story.menezes.jpg)
Looks like a "Muslim immigrant" I guess.
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A man that runs from the police as fast as he can does not have a clear conscience, so in that way it's probably a good thing he's dead now.
youre a fucking faggot.There was no justification to shoot a man who didnt pull a gun. What kind of fucking nazi are you to decide whats clear headed and if someone should be killed? Yeah, you embarassed yourself.
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They thought he was going to let a bomb explode, so they killed him.
If this man did let a bomb explode, everybody would have blamed the police for not handling correctly. Well, not everybody of course: extremists like for example Infinite, King Tech and you, Janal, would have praised the guy that is dead now.
so the best bet was to kill the one guy that knew where it was? lol Youre makin some pretty stupidass comments man. The police are trained for this. They should be trained to not shoot everyone who MIGHT have done something. Thats just stupid. You think that IF the guy did have a bomb, he'd be more usefull to the police alive or dead? So if im a cop, and i see you running....i should just shoot you in the head under the assumption that you might have done something? hopefully one of your loved ones gets blasted by the police for nothing, and you can talk at the funeral and explain to your family how the police did the right thing.
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... and this is why capturing instead of a shoot to kill policy is better!
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... and this is why capturing instead of a shoot to kill policy is better!
yup. the police are trained how to shoot. so when they shoot someone and kill them, they had every attention on killing that person. Hopefully if they do have a shoot to kill policy right now, the London police arent simply getting involved in a game of flexing muscles. Something basically like a scare tactic on potential terrorists. It wont work. They have to be smart and fight it using intelligence...not just force. Terrorists arent afraid of dying apparently
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Shoot to kill policy is one of the dumbest terms I ever heard of. Let alone the police will kill a bunch of more innocent people that way.. you also won't trace back shit to the ones who pull the strings, or anything like that. Jesus, it's 2005.
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If you run from the Police you commit a crime, one of the most dangerous one.
You're a moron.
Then you die.
I understand it's fucked up if you shoot a man thinking he's a terrorist when he's not.
But Jesus, that man was really a moron!!
If you have nothing to hide, then dont run, you dickhead.
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Maybe he had something to hide, but nothing that would justify a death penalty? You can just shoot him in the leg and see what's up, maybe he was just a stoner and had a lot of grass with him? What the hell, just don't "shoot to kill", that's retarded. Argueing he was a dumbass and therefore deserved to die is like saying let's execute everyone with an IQ below 90. Be careful what you wish for, haha.
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Maybe the police thought he could be carrying a bomb and was able to let it go off.
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A man that runs from the police as fast as he can does not have a clear conscience, so in that way it's probably a good thing he's dead now.
London also sent out a message with this shit: if police think someone could be about to blow up something, police will shoot to kill.
I support this action of the London police in every single way. Like Trauma said: don't prosecute, execute!
Trauma is hick that's why...what if the guy didn't know English? :)
British police should put down their guns 24/7, pussy ass to hold him down and shoot him 5 times in the head and then say he was innocent.
don't come and live here then, I don't think we should let anyone one in who can't speak fluent english. this guy was approached by 20 officers and ran away, its his own fault he got shot, you can't blame the cops who were just doing their job trying to keep london safe. they have to make tough decision in split seconds.
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A man that runs from the police as fast as he can does not have a clear conscience, so in that way it's probably a good thing he's dead now.
London also sent out a message with this shit: if police think someone could be about to blow up something, police will shoot to kill.
I support this action of the London police in every single way. Like Trauma said: don't prosecute, execute!
Trauma is hick that's why...what if the guy didn't know English? :)
British police should put down their guns 24/7, pussy ass to hold him down and shoot him 5 times in the head and then say he was innocent.
don't come and live here then, I don't think we should let anyone one in who can't speak fluent english. this guy was approached by 20 officers and ran away, its his own fault he got shot, you can't blame the cops who were just doing their job trying to keep london safe. they have to make tough decision in split seconds.
Ok, nice we went from 3 cops to 20 ;D
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Don't blame the police blame the terrorists.
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Don't blame the police blame the terrorists.
Don't blame the terrorist blame the government.
:)
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Don't blame the police blame the terrorists.
Don't blame the terrorist blame the government.
:)
Yeah sure because the government are going around blowing up trains. ::)
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Don't blame the police blame the terrorists.
Don't blame the terrorist blame the government.
:)
don't be a slave to a supposed "opressive government" half the world away, live your own life
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Maybe he had something to hide, but nothing that would justify a death penalty? You can just shoot him in the leg and see what's up, maybe he was just a stoner and had a lot of grass with him? What the hell, just don't "shoot to kill", that's retarded. Argueing he was a dumbass and therefore deserved to die is like saying let's execute everyone with an IQ below 90. Be careful what you wish for, haha.
cops aren't trained to shoot in the leg, it's too risky. they are trained to shoot to kill.
anyways...
this situation does seem fucked up, guess we'll have to wait to see if this guy was guilty or not. that sounds absurd but that's what's going to have to happen now
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Don't blame the police blame the terrorists.
Don't blame the terrorist blame the government.
:)
Yeah sure because the government are going around blowing up trains. ::)
Nah they use fighter jets.
Don't blame the police blame the terrorists.
Don't blame the terrorist blame the government.
:)
don't be a slave to a supposed "opressive government" half the world away, live your own life
Yeah but I'm from half the world away ;D
They're only oppressive when the West gets involved.
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lmao the peeps who said that he shouldn“t have taken off lol, you guys are a bunch of fuckin morons. so if a bunch of people in regular clothes would run up on you with guns drawn and the whole nine you would just stand still and be nice to them? fuck every single person on here would“ve taken off just as he did. shit i guess these days running is something peeps should be kiled for ::) London joggers better watch out or their asses will get popped aswell.
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Maybe he had something to hide, but nothing that would justify a death penalty? You can just shoot him in the leg and see what's up, maybe he was just a stoner and had a lot of grass with him? What the hell, just don't "shoot to kill", that's retarded. Argueing he was a dumbass and therefore deserved to die is like saying let's execute everyone with an IQ below 90. Be careful what you wish for, haha.
Man relax, i didnt write he deserved to die or that the police did a good thing killing him. I simply said he was a moron. And that's a fact.
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Maybe he had something to hide, but nothing that would justify a death penalty? You can just shoot him in the leg and see what's up, maybe he was just a stoner and had a lot of grass with him? What the hell, just don't "shoot to kill", that's retarded. Argueing he was a dumbass and therefore deserved to die is like saying let's execute everyone with an IQ below 90. Be careful what you wish for, haha.
Man relax, i didnt write he deserved to die or that the police did a good thing killing him. I simply said he was a moron. And that's a fact.
Oh, you called the italian SIMSI officer killed by Americans in Iraq a moron too. Just to let you know. Fool.
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damn europeans are more tight ass vigilante than Americans! you trust your governments too much.
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Maybe he had something to hide, but nothing that would justify a death penalty? You can just shoot him in the leg and see what's up, maybe he was just a stoner and had a lot of grass with him? What the hell, just don't "shoot to kill", that's retarded. Argueing he was a dumbass and therefore deserved to die is like saying let's execute everyone with an IQ below 90. Be careful what you wish for, haha.
Man relax, i didnt write he deserved to die or that the police did a good thing killing him. I simply said he was a moron. And that's a fact.
Oh, you called the italian SIMSI officer killed by Americans in Iraq a moron too. Just to let you know. Fool.
Proof and context, please.
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Maybe he had something to hide, but nothing that would justify a death penalty? You can just shoot him in the leg and see what's up, maybe he was just a stoner and had a lot of grass with him? What the hell, just don't "shoot to kill", that's retarded. Argueing he was a dumbass and therefore deserved to die is like saying let's execute everyone with an IQ below 90. Be careful what you wish for, haha.
Antonio wouldn't make the cut ;D
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damn europeans are more tight ass vigilante than Americans! you trust your governments too much.
big deal the police shot an innocent guy, mistakes happen name another country that has a record as good as ours when it comes to armed police.
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damn europeans are more tight ass vigilante than Americans! you trust your governments too much.
big deal the police shot an innocent guy, mistakes happen name another country that has a record as good as ours when it comes to armed police.
Let's pretend this never happened.
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A man that runs from the police as fast as he can does not have a clear conscience, so in that way it's probably a good thing he's dead now.
London also sent out a message with this shit: if police think someone could be about to blow up something, police will shoot to kill.
I support this action of the London police in every single way. Like Trauma said: don't prosecute, execute!
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So, white people killing innocent Muslims is ALRIGHT. It's alright when it happens in the Middle East, as proven by the wars... and it's alright when it happens in Europe. But a Muslim killing innocent white people, is a terrorist.
exactly, you start to understand :D
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... and this is why capturing instead of a shoot to kill policy is better!
LMFAO, u wanna cap someone when he has a bomb of on him. Fuck no
RAT-TAT-TAT-TAT BRRRRRRRRAHHHH
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So, white people killing innocent Muslims is ALRIGHT. It's alright when it happens in the Middle East, as proven by the wars... and it's alright when it happens in Europe. But a Muslim killing innocent white people, is a terrorist.
exactly, you start to understand :D
WTF... THE DUDE SHOT *WAS NOT* MIDDLE EASTERN OR MUSLIM!
he was brazilian.. and a roman catholic!
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So, white people killing innocent Muslims is ALRIGHT. It's alright when it happens in the Middle East, as proven by the wars... and it's alright when it happens in Europe. But a Muslim killing innocent white people, is a terrorist.
exactly, you start to understand :D
WTF... THE DUDE SHOT *WAS NOT* MIDDLE EASTERN OR MUSLIM!
he was brazilian.. and a roman catholic!
Italians/Brazilians all look Middle Eastern :P
When white people kill innocent non-whites it's called collateral damage.
- For Gangstauu
http://www.onelook.com/?w=collateral+damage&ls=a
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well yeah.. and its likely to happen again...
until the full facts of the movements of this guy and why he was suspected are released i'm not going to speak on something i don't know much about apart from pointing out obvious flaws like the one i just did :)
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well yeah.. and its likely to happen again...
until the full facts of the movements of this guy and why he was suspected are released i'm not going to speak on something i don't know much about apart from pointing out obvious flaws like the one i just did :)
Lmao don't you read or watch the news ;D
He lived in same building as the bomber and they followed the wrong guy.
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^ really lived at the same place.. LOL.. well thats unfortunate..
no.. most of this came out over the weekend and i only really watch the news mon/tue/weds nights (i go gym thurs niughts on and fri nights/weekends i'm normally not around when the news is on)
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/Menezes.jpg)
Jean Charles de Menezes (January 7, 1978July 22, 2005) was a Brazilian electrician living in Tulse Hill in south London. Menezes was shot and killed by Metropolitan Police officers at Stockwell tube station on the London Underground in a case of mistaken identity. A Roman Catholic from Gonzaga in Minas Gerais, Menezes had lived in the United Kingdom for three years before his death. While his shooting was reported to have occurred as a result of the police investigation into the 21 July 2005 London bombings, it was later revealed that he had nothing to do with the attempted attacks.
Biography
Menezes grew up on a farm in rural Brazil. After discovering an early aptitude for electronics, he left the farm aged 14 to live with his uncle in Sao Paulo in order to further his education. At 19 he had received a professional diploma from Escola Estadual Sćo Sebastićo. He entered the UK on a student visa in 2002 which had expired at the time of his death. This, however, has been denied by his cousin. Within 4 months of arriving in the UK he had a good grasp of the English language, and spent his time earning money to send back to his family in Brazil.
Background
The day before the shooting, four attempted bomb attacks were carried out at three locations on the Underground and on a bus in Bethnal Green. The perpetrators had not died in the explosions, prompting a large-scale police investigation with the aim of tracking them down. An address within a three-storey block of flats (containing 9 separate flats) in Scotia Road, Tulse Hill, had reportedly been identified from materials found inside the unexploded bags used by the bombers, and at around 10:00 a.m. officers observing the address saw Menezes emerge from the communal entrance of the block, where he lived in a flat with two cousins. The officers were watching three men of Somalian or Ethiopian appearance. Menezes, working as an electrician, had just received a call to fix a broken fire alarm in Kilburn. The officers followed him for 5 minutes as he walked to a bus-stop. He then boarded a number 2 bus - several plain clothes policeman boarded with him. 10-15 minutes later the bus arrived at Stockwell station. At some point he phoned a work colleague, Gesio de Avila, saying he was going to be late due to public transport disruption caused by the previous day's attempted bombings. Outside Stockwell station, police claim he was challenged and ordered to stop.
The officers who followed Menezes were apparently suspicious of his clothing and behaviour; he was also reported as being of South Asian appearance. It was believed that his thick clothing made police officers concerned that he was hiding explosives underneath, and was a potential suicide bomber. The Observer reported that he was dressed in "baseball cap, blue fleece and baggy trousers." Reuters reported Mark Whitby, a witness to the shooting, as saying that he was wearing a large winter coat, and "looked out of place." Another eyewitness, Anthony Larkin, told the BBC that Menezes appeared to be wearing a "bomb belt with wires coming out." No such device was found, but his occupation as an electrician may explain the presence of wires. He was not carrying a toolbag, since he had left it with his work colleague the previous evening. At the time of the shooting, the temperature in London was about 17C/62F [1], which is chilly enough that someone who grew up in a hot climate might well want to dress warmly.
It was reported that the reason he ran away from the policemen was that a few weeks prior to this incident he had been attacked by a gang of criminals. Some have also conjectured that, with Brazil being one of the world's murder hot-spots, it may have been an instinctive reaction by Menezes to turn and run when approached by a group of armed men in plain-clothes. It has since been speculated that he may have run because he was being challenged whilst on the way to work, as his work visa had since expired. [2].
Shooting
Eyewitnesses reported that up to twenty police officers in plain clothes pursued Menezes into Stockwell station, where he jumped over the ticket barrier, ran down an escalator and tried to jump onto a train. He was pushed to the floor of the carriage. Two officers pinned him down, while a third shot him five times in the head and neck with a handgun. He died at the scene.
:-\
There are conflicting reports as to whether the undercover police properly identified themselves, attempted to restrain the man on the floor, and if any verbal warning was given before the man was shot. Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair later said, during a press conference, that a warning was issued prior to the shooting and that an air ambulance was called afterwards; however, the man was pronounced dead at the scene.
Mark Whitby, a passenger on the train Menezes had run onto, said: "one of [the police officers] was carrying a black handgunit looked like an automaticHe half tripped... they pushed him to the floor, bundled on top of him and unloaded five shots into him." Another passenger, Dan Copeland, said: "an officer jumped on the door to my left and screamed, 'Everybody out!' People just froze in their seats cowering for a few seconds and then leapt up. As I turned out the door onto the platform, I heard four dull bangs." Another witness, Lee Ruston, who was waiting on the platform, said the police made no efforts to identify themselves. Police policy toward suspected suicide bombers had been revised, instructing officers to fire directly toward the head. The claim had been that based on experience abroad, shooting at the chest would possibly explode a bomb belt.
Menezes' cousin, Alex Pereira, who lived with him, asserted that Menzes had been shot from behind: "I pushed my way into the morgue. They wouldn't let me see him. His mouth was twisted by the wounds and it looked like he had been shot from the back of the neck."
Immediately after the shooting the officers involved (from Scotland Yards SO19 firearms branch) were debriefed and drugs and alcohol tests were taken as a standard procedure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Charles_de_Menezes
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Maybe the police thought he could be carrying a bomb and was able to let it go off.
maybe the police who shot him should also be shot and killed for such a stupid mistake? why do people put police on such a higher level then all of us. what kind of a mindless pussy would u have to be in order to think that everything the police do is right? lol. if you THOUGHT someone had a weapon and shot them in the head, killing them....u think the "justice system" would have any mercy on u?
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^ we don't have the death penalty here..
and MOST of the time police dont carry arms as guns are illegal here.. so they dont need to..
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^ we don't have the death penalty here..
and MOST of the time police dont carry arms as guns are illegal here.. so they dont need to..
so what punishment do police in London receive for shooting and killing a completely innocent man?
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^ we don't have the death penalty here..
and MOST of the time police dont carry arms as guns are illegal here.. so they dont need to..
so what punishment do police in London receive for shooting and killing a completely innocent man?
they were acting under orders.
we are led to believe that.
1) the dude was wearing unseasonably large clothing.. its midsummer here.
2) he was followed from a suspected location
3) he was approached and RAN. then proceeded to go onto a subway AND illegally jumped the barrier gates. (to get a free ride..)
if the dude under suspicion refused to stop and ran onto on a subway they had pretty much no choice. the police were acting within their mandate and under the rules of engagement they have been given.
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^lol just stop.
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Eyewitnesses reported that up to twenty police officers in plain clothes pursued Menezes into Stockwell station, where he jumped over the ticket barrier, ran down an escalator and tried to jump onto a train. He was pushed to the floor of the carriage. Two officers pinned him down, while a third shot him five times in the head and neck with a handgun. He died at the scene.
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dude wtf that isn't what normal police men would do. if those witnesses testify for that those cops could go to jail.
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and eh... dude spoke fluently English, lived in the same appartment complex as some of the terrorists and wore a winter jacket in summertime...
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^ and his VISA allegedly ran out 4 months ago.. so he was in the country illegally..
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so he was in the country illegally..
that son of a bitch
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^ and his VISA allegedly ran out 4 months ago.. so he was in the country illegally..
LOL.. please tell me you're not saying that this gives the killing some sort of justification
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no way.. but bear with me.
this has been cited as a possible reason he ran..
unfortunately for him they wanted him for reasons other than his visa..
another has been that he was attacked by a gang weeks ago n thought it was happening again..
running when confronted by the cops is what got him killed whatever the cause.
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this right here did make him look very suspicious
and eh... dude spoke fluently English, lived in the same appartment complex as some of the terrorists and wore a winter jacket in summertime...
the police did the right thing. what if he did have explosives under there?
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yeah they're saying since he was brazilian that he'd be feeling the cold even on a hot english day
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Well... I know people from the desert that have been here on hot days and they were wearing T-shirts.
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thats fucked up. i always run from the cops. 8)
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yeah fuck the cops and german people too, they pretty close to cops.
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Mauzip and Overseer = CWalker mentality in this thread.
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Mauzip and Overseer = CWalker mentality in this thread.
You are a moron. Tell me exactly what you would have done if you were a police officer in that situation. Remember, this guy was living in a building under surveillance for terrorist activity, wearing a long coat in the middle of summer, and running through the subway system ignoring police calls to stop just days after a series of terrorist attacks.
Are you going to tell me you that if you were a cop you wouldn't have shot him? What if he had been an actual terrorist and the cops had not shot him.......and he ended up setting off a bomb and killling hundreds of innocent people? You probably would be complaining about the cops not doing their job and killing a terrorist when they had the chance.
It is so easy to bad mouth the cops when they have to make split second decisions. But you can't second guess them. If you want to blame anyone for this man's death, put the blame where it really belongs: the terrorists who have created this whole situation.
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Mauzip and Overseer = CWalker mentality in this thread.
You are a moron. Tell me exactly what you would have done if you were a police officer in that situation. Remember, this guy was living in a building under surveillance for terrorist activity, wearing a long coat in the middle of summer, and running through the subway system ignoring police calls to stop just days after a series of terrorist attacks.
Are you going to tell me you that if you were a cop you wouldn't have shot him? What if he had been an actual terrorist and the cops had not shot him.......and he ended up setting off a bomb and killling hundreds of innocent people? You probably would be complaining about the cops not doing their job and killing a terrorist when they had the chance.
It is so easy to bad mouth the cops when they have to make split second decisions. But you can't second guess them. If you want to blame anyone for this man's death, put the blame where it really belongs: the terrorists who have created this whole situation.
If I was a Police Officer in that situation I would have cuffed him after the other two cops had pinned him down instead of shooting him in the back like they did, that's some over the top actions.
Tell me what the difference would have been had the Police not shot him, what difference would it have made seeming they had him pinned down? Maybe the man would still be alive and their mistake with what he was up to found out, or maybe if he had have been a terrorist they would have been able to get information that might have helped save lives from further attacks, but instead they killed him and created a situation where people will now fear the police and be nervous around them and after all nerves can cause poeple to do things they wouldn't normally do and more innocent people will get killed.
It's not the Terrorists that have implemented policies of 'Shoot to Kill' and it is not them who are justifying these policies but it is them reaping the rewards of such policies, policies that meen certain groups within our societies now live in fear of the police, policies that encourage us not to trust those who don't look normal and to pry into the private lives of those who do dress and act like the majority, these policies result in people who aren't normal being treated different which mean's the free and open minded societies that we are supposedly protecting against the terrorists are no longer free and open minded. When you start taking away people rights and create division amongst people you help these terrorists achieve their so called goals, so if you believe that their reason for killing westerners is because of how free we are why are you then supporting actions that result in the lose of the most important freedom, the freedom to live?
This man had a right to live and that was taken away by politicians who are doing exactly what is needed to a) create a state of fear amongst people and b) achieve the so called goals of their enemy.
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If you want to blame anyone for this man's death, put the blame where it really belongs: the terrorists who have created this whole situation.
I hope you're not planning on ever being a lawyer.
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Mauzip and Overseer = CWalker mentality in this thread.
You are a moron. Tell me exactly what you would have done if you were a police officer in that situation. Remember, this guy was living in a building under surveillance for terrorist activity, wearing a long coat in the middle of summer, and running through the subway system ignoring police calls to stop just days after a series of terrorist attacks.
Are you going to tell me you that if you were a cop you wouldn't have shot him? What if he had been an actual terrorist and the cops had not shot him.......and he ended up setting off a bomb and killling hundreds of innocent people? You probably would be complaining about the cops not doing their job and killing a terrorist when they had the chance.
It is so easy to bad mouth the cops when they have to make split second decisions. But you can't second guess them. If you want to blame anyone for this man's death, put the blame where it really belongs: the terrorists who have created this whole situation.
If I was a Police Officer in that situation I would have cuffed him after the other two cops had pinned him down instead of shooting him in the back like they did, that's some over the top actions.
Tell me what the difference would have been had the Police not shot him, what difference would it have made seeming they had him pinned down? Maybe the man would still be alive and their mistake with what he was up to found out, or maybe if he had have been a terrorist they would have been able to get information that might have helped save lives from further attacks, but instead they killed him and created a situation where people will now fear the police and be nervous around them and after all nerves can cause poeple to do things they wouldn't normally do and more innocent people will get killed.
It's not the Terrorists that have implemented policies of 'Shoot to Kill' and it is not them who are justifying these policies but it is them reaping the rewards of such policies, policies that meen certain groups within our societies now live in fear of the police, policies that encourage us not to trust those who don't look normal and to pry into the private lives of those who do dress and act like the majority, these policies result in people who aren't normal being treated different which mean's the free and open minded societies that we are supposedly protecting against the terrorists are no longer free and open minded. When you start taking away people rights and create division amongst people you help these terrorists achieve their so called goals, so if you believe that their reason for killing westerners is because of how free we are why are you then supporting actions that result in the lose of the most important freedom, the freedom to live?
This man had a right to live and that was taken away by politicians who are doing exactly what is needed to a) create a state of fear amongst people and b) achieve the so called goals of their enemy.
Real talk
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Mauzip and Overseer = CWalker mentality in this thread.
You are a moron. Tell me exactly what you would have done if you were a police officer in that situation. Remember, this guy was living in a building under surveillance for terrorist activity, wearing a long coat in the middle of summer, and running through the subway system ignoring police calls to stop just days after a series of terrorist attacks.
Are you going to tell me you that if you were a cop you wouldn't have shot him? What if he had been an actual terrorist and the cops had not shot him.......and he ended up setting off a bomb and killling hundreds of innocent people? You probably would be complaining about the cops not doing their job and killing a terrorist when they had the chance.
It is so easy to bad mouth the cops when they have to make split second decisions. But you can't second guess them. If you want to blame anyone for this man's death, put the blame where it really belongs: the terrorists who have created this whole situation.
If I was a Police Officer in that situation I would have cuffed him after the other two cops had pinned him down instead of shooting him in the back like they did, that's some over the top actions.
Tell me what the difference would have been had the Police not shot him, what difference would it have made seeming they had him pinned down? Maybe the man would still be alive and their mistake with what he was up to found out, or maybe if he had have been a terrorist they would have been able to get information that might have helped save lives from further attacks, but instead they killed him and created a situation where people will now fear the police and be nervous around them and after all nerves can cause poeple to do things they wouldn't normally do and more innocent people will get killed.
It's not the Terrorists that have implemented policies of 'Shoot to Kill' and it is not them who are justifying these policies but it is them reaping the rewards of such policies, policies that meen certain groups within our societies now live in fear of the police, policies that encourage us not to trust those who don't look normal and to pry into the private lives of those who do dress and act like the majority, these policies result in people who aren't normal being treated different which mean's the free and open minded societies that we are supposedly protecting against the terrorists are no longer free and open minded. When you start taking away people rights and create division amongst people you help these terrorists achieve their so called goals, so if you believe that their reason for killing westerners is because of how free we are why are you then supporting actions that result in the lose of the most important freedom, the freedom to live?
This man had a right to live and that was taken away by politicians who are doing exactly what is needed to a) create a state of fear amongst people and b) achieve the so called goals of their enemy.
Real talk
It's not real talk. The reason why the British police is using this policy is because if a terrorist is still by conscience he can still let the bomb go off. That is why they don't shoot him in the legs or in the back.
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"We are not afraid, we are not afraid"
Who is talking about not being afraid? That has nothing to do with the topic.
Truth to be told though when I'm on Amsterdam Central Station I do keep an eye on everyone that looks Middle Eastern.
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news last night.. dude was shot 8 times not 5
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"We are not afraid, we are not afraid"
Who is talking about not being afraid? That has nothing to do with the topic.
Truth to be told though when I'm on Amsterdam Central Station I do keep an eye on everyone that looks Middle Eastern.
LOLLL like your faggot ass would do something besides scream for help
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you'd know huh? ::)
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shooting a pinned down man 8 times in the head. fuckin' lunatics. if he was a black dude shot by white cops in new york, there would be a riot. and a justified one at that.
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shooting a pinned down man 8 times in the head. fuckin' lunatics. if he was a black dude shot by white cops in new york, there would be a riot. and a justified one at that.
dude.. you are SO fucking dense!!! i know you come out with some bullsht.. but really..
there is a lot mroe to this ACCIDENT than him just being some random dude.
in NY this could only happen if say..
- the day before black people had bombed the NY underground
- the dude had come from a place where it was suspected related poeple were hiding
- was wearing unseasonably large clothing
- refused to stop for the police when asked to
- illegally jumped over a barrier to gain entry to the railway station
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Yea yea, the fact remains that they shot a PINNED DOWN dude in his motherfucking HEAD 8 FUCKING TIMES. Granted, he wore a jacket (LOL) and ran away.. STILL.. if that's the way cops are supposed to act, thank God I'm still alive. He's not the first dude ever to run away from the cops. It's a normal thang. Plus, I'm not sure though, but werent they dressed like normal people? If yes, LOL@that then. NO WAY I wouldn't run away if some lunatics dressed like normal thugs approached me because of my LOOKS.
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Yea yea, the fact remains that they shot a PINNED DOWN dude in his motherfucking HEAD 8 FUCKING TIMES. Granted, he wore a jacket (LOL) and ran away.. STILL.. if that's the way cops are supposed to act, thank God I'm still alive. He's not the first dude ever to run away from the cops. It's a normal thang. Plus, I'm not sure though, but werent they dressed like normal people? If yes, LOL@that then. NO WAY I wouldn't run away if some lunatics dressed like normal thugs approached me because of my LOOKS.
They made him clear they were police.
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^ i agree with all but your last point... "context" is very important to that
Yea yea, the fact remains that they shot a PINNED DOWN dude in his motherfucking HEAD 8 FUCKING TIMES. Granted, he wore a jacket (LOL) and ran away.. STILL.. if that's the way cops are supposed to act, thank God I'm still alive. He's not the first dude ever to run away from the cops. It's a normal thang. Plus, I'm not sure though, but werent they dressed like normal people? If yes, LOL@that then. NO WAY I wouldn't run away if some lunatics dressed like normal thugs approached me because of my LOOKS.
yes its the way cops are supposed to act...
THAT IS HOW YOU TAKE OUT A (suspected) SUICIDE BOMBER!
Come on wise guy.. explain how you'd take out a suicide bomber IN THE MIDDLE OF A CROWDED TRAIN with the maximum chance of him not being able to detonate his bomb?
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They made him clear they were police.
How about some proper English, Mr. I-Love-American-Dick? Don't type the same way you would talk if you had your boyfriend's dick in your mouth.
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I think there's a middleground between "the cops did the right thing" and "the cops were fuckin lunatics".....
Did the cops have a reason to be suspicious about the man? Of course.
Since the man was illegally in the country, did he have a reason to be scared? Yeah.
Do we know about anyone else being after that guy? No.
Could the cops have gone about this in a better way? I think so. You don't just shoot someone 8 times under the basis of suspicion.
The police had to act in a split second. If I was in their situation I probably would have done the same thing.
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I think there's a middleground between "the cops did the right thing" and "the cops were fuckin lunatics".....
Did the cops have a reason to be suspicious about the man? Of course.
Since the man was illegally in the country, did he have a reason to be scared? Yeah.
Do we know about anyone else being after that guy? No.
Could the cops have gone about this in a better way? I think so. You don't just shoot someone 8 times under the basis of suspicion.
The police had to act in a split second. If I was in their situation I probably would have done the same thing.
Yes, but you're a fucking idiot, so that holds no weight here. Go make posts about how much you would love some German dick, TOT just isn't your place.
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Seer... you mentioned that context is important, which it is... but I'd like to know at which point you believe it is reasonable to shoot a man 8 times on the basis of "suspicion".
He already gave the answer in this thread.
TOT just isn't your place.
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yes i did.
he refused to stop when police asked him, he illegaly entered a subway station and boarded a train full of passengers.
put yourself in the mindset of an armed person specifically tasked with preventing suicide bombers on trains.
i'm NOT saying it was right, i'm saying it is an UNDERSTANDABLE action.
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.. you said yourself that he was a "suspected" suicide bomber (fact is, he wasn't)...
why was he not a suspected bomber?
he came from the house they were watching..
he was wearing unseasonably large clothin.. which they though could be concealing something..
he refused to stop for the police
fact is he WAS
so my question is at what point should the suspicion lead to 8 shots to the guy's head.... I mean did the cops see anything resembling a bomb on the guy? I mean let's use the CWalker/Trauma mentality and ask if the guy said Allahu Akbar when he ran? LOL what did the guy do to make them go from "this guy is suspicious" to "this guy is gonna blow this shit up"
the "suspicion" you said doesn't exist was heightened by the fact that he made a direct bee line for a train fill of passengers.. that is the exact worse thing dude could have done in his situation. to the dude himself... theres obviously nothing wrong with that.
but the police DID suspect of him being a bomber therefore they took the necessary actions to prevent a detonation..
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LOL... no man.. I said "he was a "suspected" suicide bomber (fact is, he wasn't)"... as in wasn't a suicide bomber.
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right.
well.. rmovnig that confusin.. most of the second part of my reply still stands..
i expect there is some kind of "threat" model these armed police follow which escalates until the suspect boards a train.
the guys actions sadly ran him up the levels of this threat model
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So in conclusion ... the cops' actions are understandable but not right...?
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well only not right in the sense that dude was innocent.
he should have stopped when the police told him to. i would.
thing is ... i don't know if uniformed officers were also involved..
he may have believed they were police and run anyway due to this alleged visa thing..
but surely he must have known about the bombings and known there'd be extra police around..
so running into a station AWAY from the police where he knows that police presence has been increased
is also a pretty dumb move..
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no. you miss my point about the cops having a "threat" order. therefore they didnt have so many decisions to make.. they were following a set plan. a lot of their decisions were already made.
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UK to speed compensation claim for Brazil victim
25 Jul 2005 19:57:12 GMT
Source: Reuters
By Katherine Baldwin
LONDON, July 25 (Reuters) - Britain promised on Monday to deal "sympathetically and quickly" with a claim for compensation from the family of a Brazilian who was shot dead by police in London after being mistaken for a suicide bomber.
Jean Charles de Menezes, 27, was killed by police at Stockwell underground station in south London on Friday in what police admit was a tragic error.
The Independent Police Complaints Commission, investigating his death, said on Monday Menezes was shot eight times.
The commission has said "the claim (for compensation) would be handled sympathetically and quickly," Foreign Secretary Jack Straw told reporters at a joint news conference with his Brazilian counterpart Celso Amorim.
Straw also said police had promised to expedite the release of Menezes body to his family, described by Amorim as "humble".
Menezes' death, which has angered Brazilians, came a day after four bombs left on underground trains and a bus failed to explode in an attack apparently designed to mirror four suicide bombings on July 7 that killed 52 people.
Police said Menezes had emerged from a building that was under surveillance and had then taken a bus to Stockwell station, where he refused orders to halt and ran onto an underground train.
As relatives and friends struggled to understand why Menezes would have run from the police, Straw and Amorim both said they understood the Brazilian electrician, who friends say had been in the country for three years, was living legally in Britain.
The Home Office has declined to comment on his immigration status.
Asked if he was satisfied with Britain's response to the shooting, Amorim said it was too early to say:
"I think I can only give that reply in full when all the stages already mentioned have been fulfilled, when the investigation has been completed and if guilty people have been punished, if it was an accident or an error or whether it was something else, when the questions relating to the family have been settled," he said.
Amorim said he stressed to Straw the fight against terrorism had to be conducted with respect for human rights.
"Of course if things happen in the way that they apparently happened this time it may play into the hands of terrorism," he added.
Relatives and friends want to know why police did not attempt to stop Menezes as he travelled on the bus to the underground station and how exactly they ordered him to stop.
There are already over 100 witness statements, the Commission said.
The second wave of attacks has left British police scrambling to find four men they fear are prepared to blow up themselves and the public.
Despite the shooting of Menezes, police have defended their policy to shoot to kill suspected suicide bombers.
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they fucked up when they shot him in the head 5-8 times. whatever it was.
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I guess Europe is filled with hicks too
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does it really matter how many times he was shot? hes dead it doesn't make any difference
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the cops followed correct procedures once again. more than likely you won't see any punishment come to those involved.
the only good thing to come from this is that news article taht mauzip posted up, at least the family will get some sort of settlement
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does it really matter how many times he was shot? hes dead it doesn't make any difference
last time i chked it usually takes 1 bullet in the head to kill somebody. 8 seems a bit excessive.
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Mauzip and Overseer = CWalker mentality in this thread.
You are a moron. Tell me exactly what you would have done if you were a police officer in that situation. Remember, this guy was living in a building under surveillance for terrorist activity, wearing a long coat in the middle of summer, and running through the subway system ignoring police calls to stop just days after a series of terrorist attacks.
Are you going to tell me you that if you were a cop you wouldn't have shot him? What if he had been an actual terrorist and the cops had not shot him.......and he ended up setting off a bomb and killling hundreds of innocent people? You probably would be complaining about the cops not doing their job and killing a terrorist when they had the chance.
It is so easy to bad mouth the cops when they have to make split second decisions. But you can't second guess them. If you want to blame anyone for this man's death, put the blame where it really belongs: the terrorists who have created this whole situation.
If I was a Police Officer in that situation I would have cuffed him after the other two cops had pinned him down instead of shooting him in the back like they did, that's some over the top actions.
Tell me what the difference would have been had the Police not shot him, what difference would it have made seeming they had him pinned down? Maybe the man would still be alive and their mistake with what he was up to found out, or maybe if he had have been a terrorist they would have been able to get information that might have helped save lives from further attacks, but instead they killed him and created a situation where people will now fear the police and be nervous around them and after all nerves can cause poeple to do things they wouldn't normally do and more innocent people will get killed.
It's not the Terrorists that have implemented policies of 'Shoot to Kill' and it is not them who are justifying these policies but it is them reaping the rewards of such policies, policies that meen certain groups within our societies now live in fear of the police, policies that encourage us not to trust those who don't look normal and to pry into the private lives of those who do dress and act like the majority, these policies result in people who aren't normal being treated different which mean's the free and open minded societies that we are supposedly protecting against the terrorists are no longer free and open minded. When you start taking away people rights and create division amongst people you help these terrorists achieve their so called goals, so if you believe that their reason for killing westerners is because of how free we are why are you then supporting actions that result in the lose of the most important freedom, the freedom to live?
This man had a right to live and that was taken away by politicians who are doing exactly what is needed to a) create a state of fear amongst people and b) achieve the so called goals of their enemy.
Real talk
It's not real talk. The reason why the British police is using this policy is because if a terrorist is still by conscience he can still let the bomb go off. That is why they don't shoot him in the legs or in the back.
I might ber a bit slow on the uptake here so can you explain to me how him being dead is going to stop him detonating the bomb that didn't exist any more than him being hand cuffed by the police, if this was a bomb with a timer him being alive or dead wouldn't have made a difference, if it needed a button pushed or a trigger pulled he wouldn't have been able to do that when cuffed and being held down by two police officers so i'm not sure how exactly killing this man (and not just killing him but shooting him eights times which is imposible to justify because he would have been dead after one or two bullets in the head) could have prevented an explsosion anymore than detaining him as he was aldreay being pinned down by two police officers when he was shot.
So how was he going to let the bomb off once he was cuffed?
Now let's look at some off the reason's people are saying he was suspected or why he wasn't totally innocent.
He was in the country illegaly: As relatives and friends struggled to understand why Menezes would have run from the police, Straw and Amorim both said they understood the Brazilian electrician, who friends say had been in the country for three years, was living legally in Britain.
He should have stopped when police told him to: Eyewitnesses reported that up to twenty police officers in plain clothes pursued Menezes into Stockwell station
Lee Ruston, who was waiting on the platform, said the police made no efforts to identify themselves
He was wearing a big jacket: At the time of the shooting, the temperature in London was about 17C/62F [1], which is chilly enough that someone who grew up in a hot climate might well want to dress warmly.
As for the jumping the ticket thing how many kids do that? should they all be shot?
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The police done the right thing and it's as simple as that. There is no point to keep going on about it, sadly this guy is died (R.I.P.) by accident and that can't be changed. To blame the police is ludicrous they did what they thought was necessary and if you want to place the blame on them place equal blame on the victim and the terrorists.
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The police done the right thing and it's as simple as that. There is no point to keep going on about it, sadly this guy is died (R.I.P.) by accident and that can't be changed. To blame the police is ludicrous they did what they thought was necessary and if you want to place the blame on them place equal blame on the victim and the terrorists.
Tomorrow I gonna get drunk and shoot random people in their heads. They could be terrorists with bombs, I feel like my life is threatened. I'm defending myself. You can call me guilty, but place equal blame on the terrorists, they fuck with my mind. And the victims, too. They look so suspicous, wearing jackets and being not white. I should get off scott-free, like those naughty ass cops.
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i'd rather have a dead brazilian guy than a police force unable to eliminate potential threats to public safety
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"I'd rather have 50 Brits blown up on a few trains than go without a cheeseburger for a week"
any cheeseburger?
cause a whopper is about 50 brits a big mac..maybe 30
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You know it's funny... you had to throw in the guy's nationality like that, and you didn't even mention the fact that it's not just a Brazilian, but an INNOCENT MAN. "I'd rather have a DEAD BRAZILIAN".... you fucking piece of shit.. you faggots and your white people's lives are worth more than the lives of non-whites... go fuck yourself
quit with your conspiracies wouldn't care if he was brazillian, american, mongolian or british whatever the fuck, i'd rather have the police fully able to do their jobs of keeping london safe than appease human rights activists who are never happy with anything and don't seem to understand the entire public should have more rights than potential terrorists.
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What the fuck has the guys race got to do with anything, for all we know it could have been a black cop that shot him.
Pick a scenario:
"Police shoot innocent man mistaken for a terrorist."
"Bomber attacks tube station, police do nothing"
It's a lose lose situation but I know what one I prefer.
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What the fuck has the guys race got to do with anything, for all we know it could have been a black cop that shot him.
Pick a scenario:
"Police shoot innocent man mistaken for a terrorist."
"Bomber attacks tube station, police do nothing"
It's a lose lose situation but I know what one I prefer.
props for shutting the stupid people on this forum up
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Man, British police don't know how to handle guns. Leave the killing to the U.S.A.
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i'd rather have a dead brazilian guy than a police force unable to eliminate potential threats to public safety
Good 1 ;D
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What the fuck has the guys race got to do with anything, for all we know it could have been a black cop that shot him.
Pick a scenario:
"Police shoot innocent man mistaken for a terrorist."
"Bomber attacks tube station, police do nothing"
It's a lose lose situation but I know what one I prefer.
props for shutting the stupid people on this forum up
If that were true, you'd be quiet by now.
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^ we don't have the death penalty here..
and MOST of the time police dont carry arms as guns are illegal here.. so they dont need to..
so what punishment do police in London receive for shooting and killing a completely innocent man?
they were acting under orders.
we are led to believe that.
1) the dude was wearing unseasonably large clothing.. its midsummer here.
2) he was followed from a suspected location
3) he was approached and RAN. then proceeded to go onto a subway AND illegally jumped the barrier gates. (to get a free ride..)
if the dude under suspicion refused to stop and ran onto on a subway they had pretty much no choice. the police were acting within their mandate and under the rules of engagement they have been given.
so, under any other circumstance (i mean, assuming that emotions werent as high as they are now with whats happened in the last couple weeks) would that kind of thing be accepted?
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it wouldn't affect things.. as even in that case it'd be a specific operation following up suspicion
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::) @ this whole thread
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WTF??? After reading the article over again I realized I missed the part about the guy getting pinned down by two officers while getting shot in the head EIGHT TIMES!!! >:( Maybe I am missing something, but if the dude was suspected of having a bomb underneath his garment, how would he be able to set it off if he is pinned down. :-\
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just anotha nigga ina wrong place at tha wrong time
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I thought we were the only country.