West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: M Dogg™ on August 01, 2005, 05:51:37 PM
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OK, I see my man Knuckles do his thing with the 50 greatest albums of all time, and I think I can do just as well with the 25 greatest MC's. I have been working hard on a list, and I think that it's the most complete and unbias list out there. 2Pac isn't number one, Biggie isn't number one, or LL Cool J. I wouldn't do 25 different threads though. I will do 25-21. 20-16, 15-11, 10-6, then 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. As a sampler, I am going to list rappers that I thought were close, but in the end I just couldn't give it to them. Not in any order, just a sample of how 25-1 are going to be.
(http://www.mtv.com/shared/media/news/images/c/Cypress_Hill/sq-breal-live-voodoo-squire.jpg)
B-Real
Strongest album: Temple of Boom
Group or Crew: Cypress Hill
Many are looking at B-Real, and saying how is he even considered. Well, actually when thinking about this list I was looking at Ice Cube and hearing all his battles, and I realized something, B-Real has to be at least considered. Though not the most lyrical, or even someone with the best content, B-Real kept it simple, and at one time was the frontman to one of the most popular groups in Hip-Hop. As the leadman of Cypress Hill, B-Real helped the group become the first latin act to go platnum in Hip-Hop. Along the way Cypress Hill gained a cult following that rivals many other great performers in music period. B-Real shinned is brightest though in Cypress Hill's release Temple of Boom, were he also went all out at one of the greatest rappers of all time in Ice Cube. After trading songs with the gangster legend, some debate over who won, though both sides came to peace and are now past that. Since, B-Real and Cypress Hill have lost their mainstream popularity, but their core cult following that helped them gain fame in 1991 are still with them today in 2005. B-Real is an unquestionable rap legend.
(http://musicmedia.ign.com/music/image/Raekwon_artist160_120303.jpg)
Raekwon
Strongest album: Only Built 4 Cuban Linx
Crew or Group: Wu Tang
With Ghostface by his side, Raekwon released the strongest of the Wu Tang members solo albums. On the album was a not so hidden diss to Biggie Smalls himself, and Raekwon was off as one of the early contenders to the crown, as it was only natural in 1994-1995 that a member of New Yorks most lyrical crew would bring the crown to the Wu Tang Clan. Raekwon's resume on classic songs and great lyrics reads like most anyone else on the list. No one can argue that Raekwon is one of the best lyrist the game has ever seen. No matter if it's a Raekwon solo album, or a Wu Tang group album, if The Chef is on the track, you know you are going to hear some of the illest and gully lyrics anyone has ever spit.
(http://newsfeed.tcm.ie/images/people/xzibit.jpg)
Xzibit
Strongest album: Restless
Crew or Group: Golden State Warriors, Strong Arm Steady
After 'Pac got shot, and Snoop fled to the Dirty Dirty, only one man could be called the best in LA. Xzibit was the best rapper LA from 1997-2000, as Snoop's change to sporting a No Limit chain left many Cali native's with a sour taste in there mouth. Lucky for them X to the Z came with a whole new sound, and kept his lyrics underground and westcoast. In 2000 Xzibit teamed up with Dr. Dre to finally break out the underground and take a set next to raps elite. Showing up in 2001, and Top Dogg prepared the world for what they have been missing, one of the rawest and roughest rappers the west has ever produced.
(http://www.hiphopgalaxy.com/IMG/-_jadakiss_3-2.jpg)
Jadakiss
Strongest album: Kiss of Death
Crew or Group: The Lox
You can't front, Why is Jadakiss as hard as it gets. Jadakiss in the past few years has become the complete artist. His this close from breaking out of the underground, though his tour into conscience rap will not but him in the commercial world. Jada's career started in the public eye as a member of Bab Boy records, the most dominating label in the east at the time. Bad Boy was known for 2 things, Biggie and shinny suit. Though Jadakiss and the Lox went to Bad Boy for Biggie, they got placed in a shinny suit. Once freed, they found themselves in the east hottest label at the time, Ruff Ryder. The ability to find the best place to be has not helped Jadakiss become the commercial hit he wants to be. But, the reason why is the reason his on this list. Refusing to go with a strickly commercial pop style, and stick to his most streets style, Jada has kept his artist dignaty in the eyes of many fans. Along the way have been battles with Beanie Segal and now 50 Cent. Not one to back down, Jada is defending his turf. Jada's hard flow along with equally hard lyrics allow the streets to follow someone they feel is representing them right. No one can denie Jada is one of the best since Big died, and no one can denie his able to swing with the best that ever did it, even if no one is really listening.
(http://entimg.msn.com/i/mu/d/dmx/DMX_150.jpg)
DMX
Strongest album: It's Dark and Hell is Hot
Crew or Group: Ruff Ryders
DMX is the man that brought the streets back in 1998. When shinny suits and poppy beats were the thing, one man came and took the game back by storm. No other rapper has 5 albums debut at number one, and these are all of DMX's albums. Everything he touches, people want to hear. His the Mike Tyson of rap, a loose cannon that still seems depressed and grumpy after all these years of being rich. Voted one of the top 10 greatest rappers of all time by BET, the truth is his not that high, but he is to be considered. No rapper draws the fans like X, and to rapper can come as hard as X. His flow and violent lyrics make you wonder if he wasn't at the peak of his career, how would he have came to Kurupt. His attacks on Ja Rule leave you guessing as to what could have been if this loose cannon would have been focused. Truly the Mike Tyson of rap, what if Mike never went to jail, what if DMX wasn't on crack?
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None of these guys would make my top 50. Shit, Jadakiss hasn't really even made a good album.
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why is restless xzibits best album, is it b/c of the dre affiliation b/c restless was a average to good album. His best album is easily at the speed of life or 40 days and 40 nights
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No other rapper has 5 albums debut at number one
False. Both Tupac and Jay Z have exactly five #1 albums each.
Tupac:
1. Me Against The World
2. All Eyez On Me
3. 7 Day Theory
4. Until The End of Time
5. Loyal To the Game
Jay Z:
1. Hardknock Life Vol.2
2. Life & Times of S. Carter Vol.3
3. The Blueprint
4. Blueprint 2
5. The Black Album
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Did DMX's last couple albums still debut that high? I can't even remember thier names but I don't remember them selling that well.
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None of these guys would make my top 50. Shit, Jadakiss hasn't really even made a good album.
LOL... don't worry. As I said, this is a sample. Honestly, this is a bias list, I'll admit. I want to introduce this list, and to do it, I used my personal favorite rappers. The top 25 is unbias, and you'll be surprised. I wanted to write on these and they didn't make the list because there was no room, so I made a sampler. As for Xzibit, I put Restless because that was his STRONGEST ALBUM. The album that changed his career, the album that made him Mr. Pimp My Ride, the album that proved his on top. Don't worry, you'll argue some albums, that's natural, and you can argue all you want this list. The top 25 will come correct.
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^^^the did go #1, though both albums only went platinum which is poor compared to how well his first 3 albums did.
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No other rapper has 5 albums debut at number one
False. Both Tupac and Jay Z have exactly five #1 albums each.
Tupac:
1. Me Against The World
2. All Eyez On Me
3. 7 Day Theory
4. Until The End of Time
5. Loyal To the Game
Jay Z:
1. Hardknock Life Vol.2
2. Life & Times of S. Carter Vol.3
3. The Blueprint
4. Blueprint 2
5. The Black Album
key word, DEBUT... his first 5... the first 5 albums DMX released. Not since his second, third or forth album. His 5 debut albums are number 1 releases.
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I don't get it. You said it:
"As a sampler, I am going to list rappers that I thought were close, but in the end I just couldn't give it to them. Not in any order, just a sample of how 25-1 are going to be."
So these aren't top 25 greatest MCs ever? but MCs that came close?
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I don't get it. You said it:
"As a sampler, I am going to list rappers that I thought were close, but in the end I just couldn't give it to them. Not in any order, just a sample of how 25-1 are going to be."
So are these aren't top 25 greatest MCs ever? but MCs that came close?
Yeah... but as I said in my seond post, I will admit a bias. To me, when doing this list, I thought of many things and since we all have bias, they came close, but then looking at it objectively, I had to change the list and take people out, or just cross them out completely. In the process, they were there, then I went unbias and they left. Objectively, 2Pac is not the greatest, in my orginal list he was, that's how it switched, that's how they got close, they I switched up, but since they are personal favorites, I thought it would be fun to start off with them. I thought the argument with B-Real would have some people at least think about how much he has meant to hip-hop, opening doors for people like Big Pun, well at the same time hanging with the man who did No Vaselin, one of the greatest diss songs of all times. The list changed, obviously they got removed from all conversation I was thinking, but I still wanted to put some people up there that I could write on.
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no one wants to comment on the format, should I include more or less?
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None of these guys would make my top 50. Shit, Jadakiss hasn't really even made a good album.
word
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I like how you put that together. Whenever there is a list created there will be a debate. For example I think Raekwon is doo doo but I like the fact that you give a brief summary as to why you think he's a top M.C. Also who wants to go through another list when you know the top 10 or so (Pac,Big,Nas,Jay,Rakim,Cube etc.). As long as they are rappers who truly made an impact I can respect your opinion. Props
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2Pac isn't number one
:-\ that's a bad start right there
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::) 2pac is great but overated. Truth.
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You cant be overrated when you are the best to ever do it ;)
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Nice list
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dmx sucks.
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You cant be overrated when you are the best to ever do it ;)
exactly
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Pac wasnt a great MC but he was an amazing artist, all round. Theres a big difference.
And you cant include Until The End Of Time and Loyal To The Game as an arguement anyway, those albums were sold on hype and guests alone. You realy think Loyal... would have sold so many if it wasnt for Eminem and Elton John or whatever other gays were on it.
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Pac wasnt a great MC but he was an amazing artist, all round. Theres a big difference.
Real talk 2pac was the greatest rap artist of all time, MC'ing is purely mic skills
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^^ Right, but what's your definition of the Best artist in rap music if he don't have the best skills on the mic : Lyrics, Rhyming & Flowing. I know that there's alot of 2pac fans on this board since this is a westcoast board but heh.
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^^ Right, but what's your definition of the Best artist in rap music if he don't have the best skills on the mic : Lyrics, Rhyming & Flowing. I know that there's alot of 2pac fans on this board since this is a westcoast board but heh.
There is more to being a great artist then simply lyricism, rhyming and flowing.
Alot of people seem to forget that as simple as Pac's skills on the mic were, he more then made up for that with his songwriting ability. He wasnt just a good songwriter, but an OUTSTANDING one.
Dude was the total package.
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cool, the list is a good idea
keep em comin
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Pac wasnt a great MC but he was an amazing artist, all round. Theres a big difference.
And you cant include Until The End Of Time and Loyal To The Game as an arguement anyway, those albums were sold on hype and guests alone. You realy think Loyal... would have sold so many if it wasnt for Eminem and Elton John or whatever other gays were on it.
who gives a fuck about record sales?? ???
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this is a really good idea you must hav put in alot of effort in it well done
dmx sucks.
hell yeah
You cant be overrated when you are the best to ever do it ;)
your opinion, alot will disagree includin me
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Raekwon shouldnt even be in the top 25...The only wu-rappers that should be in the top 25 are GZA and Ghostface Killah.
DMX?
Jadakiss?
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your opinion, alot will disagree includin me
In the real world, Pac is probably considered goat by an overwhelming majority.
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^^ Right, but what's your definition of the Best artist in rap music if he don't have the best skills on the mic : Lyrics, Rhyming & Flowing. I know that there's alot of 2pac fans on this board since this is a westcoast board but heh.
My definition of Best artist:
flow
delivery
voice
impact/influence
catalague
songwriting abilities
versatility
There is alot of mc's better than 2pac when it comes the technical side of mcing such as rhyming, flowing, and battling capabilites, but 2pac MORE than made up for that especially in the last six categories I listed. I seriously think when people say tupac is overrated they mean 2pac the human being rather than 2pac the artist. I also think it is LARGELY unfair to attack 2pac because he is not spitting on rakim's level lyrically speaking. That's like attacking rakim for not making songs such as 'shed so many tears', 'blasphemy', and 'me and my girlfriend' just to name a few examples. 2pac was not the best mc, but when considering the total package I still believe 2pac is goat without a doubt. Other mc's I would accept as goat would be cube, rakim, and krs-one.
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your opinion, alot will disagree includin me
In the real world, Pac is probably considered goat by an overwhelming majority.
^^^ very true. If you go outside the U.S. and go through the other countries in the world I think you would see 2pac is the most influential figure of all time in hip hop history.
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no one wants to comment on the format, should I include more or less?
maybe best track
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Kool Keith anyone?
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^^ Right, but what's your definition of the Best artist in rap music if he don't have the best skills on the mic : Lyrics, Rhyming & Flowing. I know that there's alot of 2pac fans on this board since this is a westcoast board but heh.
My definition of Best artist:
flow
delivery
voice
impact/influence
catalague
songwriting abilities
versatility
There is alot of mc's better than 2pac when it comes the technical side of mcing such as rhyming, flowing, and battling capabilites, but 2pac MORE than made up for that especially in the last six categories I listed. I seriously think when people say tupac is overrated they mean 2pac the human being rather than 2pac the artist. I also think it is LARGELY unfair to attack 2pac because he is not spitting on rakim's level lyrically speaking. That's like attacking rakim for not making songs such as 'shed so many tears', 'blasphemy', and 'me and my girlfriend' just to name a few examples. 2pac was not the best mc, but when considering the total package I still believe 2pac is goat without a doubt. Other mc's I would accept as goat would be cube, rakim, and krs-one.
It's still a matter of oppinion, some may be more attired by the artistic and poetic side of hiphop while others like raw lyrics and delivery. But you are absolutely right. There's no doubt about 2pac being in the top 5 rappers of all time. But I am happy to see people here agreeing that theres rappers better than 2pac in some aspects of an Mc. Theres alot of factors to consider when youre talking about a rapper. Pac was the best in what he did, Rakim was the best in what he did. Theres some style that just can't be compared in rap. What i meant by overated is that there's people out there that believe that nobody could touch 2pac in every aspects in rap.
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pac is the best ever period, whether its as a pure emcee or music artist, and biggie is a close 2nd
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No other rapper has 5 albums debut at number one
False. Both Tupac and Jay Z have exactly five #1 albums each.
Tupac:
1. Me Against The World
2. All Eyez On Me
3. 7 Day Theory
4. Until The End of Time
5. Loyal To the Game
Jay Z:
1. Hardknock Life Vol.2
2. Life & Times of S. Carter Vol.3
3. The Blueprint
4. Blueprint 2
5. The Black Album
key word, DEBUT... his first 5... the first 5 albums DMX released. Not since his second, third or forth album. His 5 debut albums are number 1 releases.
it's impossible to have 5 debut albums... that means 5 times it was his first appearance
you can have 5 albums debut at number ont though
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No other rapper has 5 albums debut at number one
False. Both Tupac and Jay Z have exactly five #1 albums each.
Tupac:
1. Me Against The World
2. All Eyez On Me
3. 7 Day Theory
4. Until The End of Time
5. Loyal To the Game
Jay Z:
1. Hardknock Life Vol.2
2. Life & Times of S. Carter Vol.3
3. The Blueprint
4. Blueprint 2
5. The Black Album
key word, DEBUT... his first 5... the first 5 albums DMX released. Not since his second, third or forth album. His 5 debut albums are number 1 releases.
it's impossible to have 5 debut albums... that means 5 times it was his first appearance
you can have 5 albums debut at number ont though
read the top line ::)
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No other rapper has 5 albums debut at number one
False. Both Tupac and Jay Z have exactly five #1 albums each.
Tupac:
1. Me Against The World
2. All Eyez On Me
3. 7 Day Theory
4. Until The End of Time
5. Loyal To the Game
Jay Z:
1. Hardknock Life Vol.2
2. Life & Times of S. Carter Vol.3
3. The Blueprint
4. Blueprint 2
5. The Black Album
key word, DEBUT... his first 5... the first 5 albums DMX released. Not since his second, third or forth album. His 5 debut albums are number 1 releases.
it's impossible to have 5 debut albums... that means 5 times it was his first appearance
you can have 5 albums debut at number ont though
read the top line ::)
DMX is not only the only rapper to do that but the only artist too
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Raekwon shouldnt even be in the top 25...The only wu-rappers that should be in the top 25 are GZA and Ghostface Killah.
DMX?
Jadakiss?
Raekwon n Method Man are way better mcs than Face
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^^ Right, but what's your definition of the Best artist in rap music if he don't have the best skills on the mic : Lyrics, Rhyming & Flowing. I know that there's alot of 2pac fans on this board since this is a westcoast board but heh.
My definition of Best artist:
flow
delivery
voice
impact/influence
catalague
songwriting abilities
versatility
There is alot of mc's better than 2pac when it comes the technical side of mcing such as rhyming, flowing, and battling capabilites, but 2pac MORE than made up for that especially in the last six categories I listed. I seriously think when people say tupac is overrated they mean 2pac the human being rather than 2pac the artist. I also think it is LARGELY unfair to attack 2pac because he is not spitting on rakim's level lyrically speaking. That's like attacking rakim for not making songs such as 'shed so many tears', 'blasphemy', and 'me and my girlfriend' just to name a few examples. 2pac was not the best mc, but when considering the total package I still believe 2pac is goat without a doubt. Other mc's I would accept as goat would be cube, rakim, and krs-one.
It's still a matter of oppinion, some may be more attired by the artistic and poetic side of hiphop while others like raw lyrics and delivery. But you are absolutely right. There's no doubt about 2pac being in the top 5 rappers of all time. But I am happy to see people here agreeing that theres rappers better than 2pac in some aspects of an Mc. Theres alot of factors to consider when youre talking about a rapper. Pac was the best in what he did, Rakim was the best in what he did. Theres some style that just can't be compared in rap. What i meant by overated is that there's people out there that believe that nobody could touch 2pac in every aspects in rap.
^^^I completely agree with you. You can't compare rappers like rakim to 2pac because like you said some prefer pure mc skills while others like the artistic and poetic side more. I also agree with you about 2pac being overrated in the sense that some people believe nobody could touch 2pac in every aspect of rap.
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why is restless xzibits best album, is it b/c of the dre affiliation b/c restless was a average to good album. His best album is easily at the speed of life or 40 days and 40 nights
Restless can't even touch At The Speed Of Life.
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Pac wasnt a great MC but he was an amazing artist, all round. Theres a big difference.
And you cant include Until The End Of Time and Loyal To The Game as an arguement anyway, those albums were sold on hype and guests alone. You realy think Loyal... would have sold so many if it wasnt for Eminem and Elton John or whatever other gays were on it.
who gives a fuck about record sales?? ???
The dude who posted the list in the first place.
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Pac wasnt a great MC but he was an amazing artist, all round. Theres a big difference.
And you cant include Until The End Of Time and Loyal To The Game as an arguement anyway, those albums were sold on hype and guests alone. You realy think Loyal... would have sold so many if it wasnt for Eminem and Elton John or whatever other gays were on it.
who gives a fuck about record sales?? ???
The dude who posted the list in the first place.
good for him
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No other rapper has 5 albums debut at number one
False. Both Tupac and Jay Z have exactly five #1 albums each.
Tupac:
1. Me Against The World
2. All Eyez On Me
3. 7 Day Theory
4. Until The End of Time
5. Loyal To the Game
Jay Z:
1. Hardknock Life Vol.2
2. Life & Times of S. Carter Vol.3
3. The Blueprint
4. Blueprint 2
5. The Black Album
key word, DEBUT... his first 5... the first 5 albums DMX released. Not since his second, third or forth album. His 5 debut albums are number 1 releases.
it's impossible to have 5 debut albums... that means 5 times it was his first appearance
you can have 5 albums debut at number ont though
read the top line ::)
read the third from the bottom line ::)
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Raekwon shouldnt even be in the top 25...The only wu-rappers that should be in the top 25 are GZA and Ghostface Killah.
DMX?
Jadakiss?
Raekwon n Method Man are way better mcs than Face
Maybe at one point in time but Face is the most consistent...
1.Ghost Face Killah
2.GZA
3.Method Man
4.ODB
5.Inspecta Deck
6.Raekwon the Chef
7.Masta Killa
8.RZA
9.U-God
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No other rapper has 5 albums debut at number one
False. Both Tupac and Jay Z have exactly five #1 albums each.
Tupac:
1. Me Against The World
2. All Eyez On Me
3. 7 Day Theory
4. Until The End of Time
5. Loyal To the Game
Jay Z:
1. Hardknock Life Vol.2
2. Life & Times of S. Carter Vol.3
3. The Blueprint
4. Blueprint 2
5. The Black Album
key word, DEBUT... his first 5... the first 5 albums DMX released. Not since his second, third or forth album. His 5 debut albums are number 1 releases.
it's impossible to have 5 debut albums... that means 5 times it was his first appearance
you can have 5 albums debut at number ont though
read the top line ::)
read the third from the bottom line ::)
yeh coz he didn't write out the full line again
if you had read everything he said you would know what he was trying to say ::)
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Restless is one of the best albums i music history, PERIOD, and thats not a opinion thats a fact
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No other rapper has 5 albums debut at number one
False. Both Tupac and Jay Z have exactly five #1 albums each.
Tupac:
1. Me Against The World
2. All Eyez On Me
3. 7 Day Theory
4. Until The End of Time
5. Loyal To the Game
Jay Z:
1. Hardknock Life Vol.2
2. Life & Times of S. Carter Vol.3
3. The Blueprint
4. Blueprint 2
5. The Black Album
key word, DEBUT... his first 5... the first 5 albums DMX released. Not since his second, third or forth album. His 5 debut albums are number 1 releases.
it's impossible to have 5 debut albums... that means 5 times it was his first appearance
you can have 5 albums debut at number ont though
read the top line ::)
read the third from the bottom line ::)
yeh coz he didn't write out the full line again
if you had read everything he said you would know what he was trying to say ::)
if you read everything that he said, you would know why i wrote what i wrote ::)
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wheres kool g rap
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your opinion, alot will disagree includin me
In the real world, Pac is probably considered goat by an overwhelming majority.
a shitload of this majority couldn't name 30 other great emcees if their life depended on it.
Having loads of fans doesn't mean shit, if pac would be #1 then Em would very likely be #2, you think he's the second best ever ? in the real world the sad truth is many don't even know many of the greatest emcees let alone all their albums. cats like pac n eminem are known by everyone, going by the number of supporters could never have a fair result.
krs, rakim, gza, g rap and more are way better emcees than pac was. The question who's the better artist is way too subjective to ever be answered. I think krs is the better artist, you think pac is, who's right.. you, cause pac is more famous and would therefore get more votes ? I don't think so
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why is it always that when we talk of great MC's the thread get hijacked into a Pac love/hate thread.
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Restless is one of the best albums i music history, PERIOD, and thats not a opinion thats a fact
i think most people would disagree with that. thats a pretty big statement to make. one of the best albums in music history?
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No other rapper has 5 albums debut at number one
False. Both Tupac and Jay Z have exactly five #1 albums each.
Tupac:
1. Me Against The World
2. All Eyez On Me
3. 7 Day Theory
4. Until The End of Time
5. Loyal To the Game
Jay Z:
1. Hardknock Life Vol.2
2. Life & Times of S. Carter Vol.3
3. The Blueprint
4. Blueprint 2
5. The Black Album
key word, DEBUT... his first 5... the first 5 albums DMX released. Not since his second, third or forth album. His 5 debut albums are number 1 releases.
it's impossible to have 5 debut albums... that means 5 times it was his first appearance
you can have 5 albums debut at number ont though
read the top line ::)
read the third from the bottom line ::)
yeh coz he didn't write out the full line again
if you had read everything he said you would know what he was trying to say ::)
if you read everything that he said, you would know why i wrote what i wrote ::)
yeh so you were pointlessly trying to correct him when you knew what he meant and what he was trying to say ::)