West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: C-Swift on September 14, 2005, 12:02:22 PM
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Why do hip-hop artists, some of them if not all, like to limit themselves and put themselves in categories if the media hasn't already done it? Like I recall a Killer Mike interview recently where he said a lot of MC's like to limit themselves to one particular style and sound, I feel that the more artists experiment with different sounds the better off the game will be in the future.
What do you thiink?
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Why do hip-hop artists, some of them if not all, like to limit themselves and put themselves in categories if the media hasn't already done it? Like I recall a Killer Mike interview recently where he said a lot of MC's like to limit themselves to one particular style and sound, I feel that the more artists experiment with different sounds the better off the game will be in the future.
What do you thiink?
Because very few are actualy artists. They are wannabe thugs who still put street cred ahead of art. Most were never that artistic growing up they just learned to rap. They come out o the mainstream and focus more on there hood and way of life and less on their artistc merit. In short, they don't have the artistic talent to branch out or the courage to try it.
Plus the fans take rappers too literally. If a rapper raps about something he hasn't gone through he's called fake. In '93 Bruce Springsteen wrote a song through the perspective of a gay man dying of aids, for the movie Phildelphia starring Tom Hanks and Denzel Washington. He did it with out worry. No one was going to think he was gay and no one would care. In rap, for a guy like 50 or Jada to do that, it would take a lot of courage on their part anda lot of open mindedness on their fans part. In short rappers are stupid and so are most of their fans. (I'm not talking about the posters in this board, but more the fake and real thugs on the street that pretend they know music).
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Why do hip-hop artists, some of them if not all, like to limit themselves and put themselves in categories if the media hasn't already done it? Like I recall a Killer Mike interview recently where he said a lot of MC's like to limit themselves to one particular style and sound, I feel that the more artists experiment with different sounds the better off the game will be in the future.
What do you thiink?
Because very few are actualy artists. They are wannabe thugs who still put street cred ahead of art. Most were never that artistic growing up they just learned to rap. They come out o the mainstream and focus more on there hood and way of life and less on their artistc merit. In short, they don't have the artistic talent to branch out or the courage to try it.
Plus the fans take rappers too literally. If a rapper raps about something he hasn't gone through he's called fake. In '93 Bruce Springsteen wrote a song through the perspective of a gay man dying of aids, for the movie Phildelphia starring Tom Hanks and Denzel Washington. He did it with out worry. No one was going to think he was gay and no one would care. In rap, for a guy like 50 or Jada to do that, it would take a lot of courage on their part anda lot of open mindedness on their fans part. In short rappers are stupid and so are most of their fans. (I'm not talking about the posters in this board, but more the fake and real thugs on the street that pretend they know music).
I think that is one way to look at it and very true for the most part.
I think another reason why a lot of Hip-Hop artists don't explore other options and limit themselves artistically is how fickle the industry is. Most rappers follow a formula and when your album is all formulaic, you're not trying new things and you're not growing either. Many are just content with selling the way they are without the possibility of alienating sales because they tried something different. Like Chris Rock said "Here today, Gone today" Many of them are afraid of failure or being told they fell off so they try to do what is acceptable/expected. I've heard artists say that it was a shame that they have to prove themselves with every single new release, well the thing is you should have to prove yourself. If you have nothing to prove, you're not stepping your game up, you're just being stagnant.
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its all for the money
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In short rappers are stupid and so are most of their fans.
If anything is stupid, it's that comment of yours.
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In short rappers are stupid and so are most of their fans.
If anything is stupid, it's that comment of yours.
No he's right, rap fans are some of the most close minded asses ever.
Most of them are music nazis.
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In short rappers are stupid and so are most of their fans.
If anything is stupid, it's that comment of yours.
No he's right, rap fans are some of the most close minded asses ever.
Most of them are music nazis.
I don't know where the fuck you guys live, but I'm in L.A. and I can tell you that your comments are ignorant and stupid... and that goes for any generalization made about a group of people, especially when talking about a group that's diverse.
edit: I just checked and your ass is from Scotland.... that must mean you're just like Groundkeeper Willy, so I can understand why you're surrounded by other retards such as yourself, and feel inclined to believe that since you and your friends that like rap music are dumbfucks, that all other rapfans must be dumbfucks like yourselves.
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In short rappers are stupid and so are most of their fans.
If anything is stupid, it's that comment of yours.
So then please give me examples of open mindedness in rap, as a whole. It';s real easy to call something stupid and give no other info. (for the record, I meant mainstream rappers. If you have a friend around the corner he doesn't count).
So far in rap, I hear about thugging, misogyny, sexism, drugs, rap skill, and whitey must die, and not much else. Give me examples that rap strays from these topics on a large scale. Show me how rap and the hip hop culture accepts the world outside their own, (and not connected to them).
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In short rappers are stupid and so are most of their fans.
If anything is stupid, it's that comment of yours.
So then please give me examples of open mindedness in rap, as a whole. It';s real easy to call something stupid and give no other info. (for the record, I meant mainstream rappers. If you have a friend around the corner he doesn't count).
So far in rap, I hear about thugging, misogyny, sexism, drugs, rap skill, and whitey must die, and not much else. Give me examples that rap strays from these topics on a large scale. Show me how rap and the hip hop culture accepts the world outside their own, (and not connected to them).
1. Your original post stated "rappers are...", and you didn't specify mainstream until now. I agree with the list of concepts heard in rap music, but you can't relate that to stupidity.
2. The main reason why I stated that your comment was stupid is because of the second part of the comment where you stated that most rap fans are stupid. Just because a certain type of music appeals to you, doesn't make you stupid. But then again... you're a rap fan, and rap fans aren't open-minded, so you wouldn't be able to see that, now would you? :)
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^^ I don´t know if you can label Shallow a rap fan
anyways Shallow, don´t make it too simple for yourself. It doesn´t take a genius to figure out a lot of rap revolves around the subjects you mentioned, yes. But not only is that not where it stops, but also rap artists approach those subjects from different perspectives and use them differently, play with them etc. Eg, Nas´ "I Gave You Power" or "Rewind" are both nothing very new as for content, but Nas wrote both songs in a pretty original way.
Masta Ace raps about drugs and violence too, but it doesn´t sound similar to 50 Cent rapping about drugs and violence. Brotha Lynch Hung created a fictitious character and raps about his evil deeds from a first-person perspective. Eminem exaggerated clichés about violence to the point of parody, etc.
And bands like Little Brother ("Whatever You Say", "The Way You Do", "Love Joint Revisited", "Nighttime Maneuvers".....), The Roots ("You Got Me", "Concerto of the Desperado", "The Next Movement", "The Seed"....) or People Under the Stairs ("Los Angeles Daze", "Mid-City Fiesta", "The Next Step".....) are on some other shit anyways, lyrically. There´s a whole bunch of rappers who don´t base their lyrics mainly on "street shit".
I mean, every music style´s got its cliches and stereotypes, inevitably. Music styles are rooted in the circumstances under which they were created and you´ll always find references to them. The subjects you mentioned don´t make a rapper stupid, only the way in which he approaches them can.
I do kind of understand where you´re coming from though...if I only listened to hiphop these days, I´d be bored to death, and it does tend to be particularly limited, I´m not trying to deny that. But saying "rap and its fans are generally stupid" is inadequate and polemic....and as for the mainstream, mainstream labels always exploited music styles and reduced it to clichés in a way everybody could define a certain style for themselves quickly. Some artists this doesn´t appeal to do have success, but a lot of mainstream music is just like that, no way around it and no point in letting it bother you
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A lot of it is because fans are closed minded but, you have a few good artist out there whose hands are tied by the record labels. at the end of the day, the label has the say on what gets put out and what gets scrapped.
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In short rappers are stupid and so are most of their fans.
If anything is stupid, it's that comment of yours.
So then please give me examples of open mindedness in rap, as a whole. It';s real easy to call something stupid and give no other info. (for the record, I meant mainstream rappers. If you have a friend around the corner he doesn't count).
So far in rap, I hear about thugging, misogyny, sexism, drugs, rap skill, and whitey must die, and not much else. Give me examples that rap strays from these topics on a large scale. Show me how rap and the hip hop culture accepts the world outside their own, (and not connected to them).
1. Your original post stated "rappers are...", and you didn't specify mainstream until now. I agree with the list of concepts heard in rap music, but you can't relate that to stupidity.
2. The main reason why I stated that your comment was stupid is because of the second part of the comment where you stated that most rap fans are stupid. Just because a certain type of music appeals to you, doesn't make you stupid. But then again... you're a rap fan, and rap fans aren't open-minded, so you wouldn't be able to see that, now would you? :)
1. What do you meanby "you can't relate that to stupidity."? I'm not sure what that means.
2. I clearly made a point to say "(I'm not talking about the posters in this board, but more the fake and real thugs on the street that pretend they know music)" in my fist post. I guessed you missed it. The "hardcore" fan of today is not as prominant as it once was. In the early 70s a band like Pink Floyd could make Dark Side of The Moon and a large number of music fans would get into it and enjoy it. If that album was released today it would get no video or radio play and be rejected by the masses. The mainstream fan of today has been too conditioned, in my opinion. Not just in rap, but rap is the music of choice at the moment and the rap scene asa whole has suffered. I don't mean every single rapper or every single fan, but the majority of both to the point where the minority is way too small to make a dent. Did I oversimplify in my first post? I don't don't think I did. I felt I explained who I was talking about and who I wasn't talking about. Obviously people like Common or Mos Def don't fit the mold I was criticzing, but a few rappers breaking out and doing something different on a small scale does nothing for the scene.
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In short rappers are stupid and so are most of their fans.
If anything is stupid, it's that comment of yours.
So then please give me examples of open mindedness in rap, as a whole. It';s real easy to call something stupid and give no other info. (for the record, I meant mainstream rappers. If you have a friend around the corner he doesn't count).
So far in rap, I hear about thugging, misogyny, sexism, drugs, rap skill, and whitey must die, and not much else. Give me examples that rap strays from these topics on a large scale. Show me how rap and the hip hop culture accepts the world outside their own, (and not connected to them).
1. Your original post stated "rappers are...", and you didn't specify mainstream until now. I agree with the list of concepts heard in rap music, but you can't relate that to stupidity.
2. The main reason why I stated that your comment was stupid is because of the second part of the comment where you stated that most rap fans are stupid. Just because a certain type of music appeals to you, doesn't make you stupid. But then again... you're a rap fan, and rap fans aren't open-minded, so you wouldn't be able to see that, now would you? :)
1. What do you meanby "you can't relate that to stupidity."? I'm not sure what that means.
2. I clearly made a point to say "(I'm not talking about the posters in this board, but more the fake and real thugs on the street that pretend they know music)" in my fist post. I guessed you missed it. The "hardcore" fan of today is not as prominant as it once was. In the early 70s a band like Pink Floyd could make Dark Side of The Moon and a large number of music fans would get into it and enjoy it. If that album was released today it would get no video or radio play and be rejected by the masses. The mainstream fan of today has been too conditioned, in my opinion. Not just in rap, but rap is the music of choice at the moment and the rap scene asa whole has suffered. I don't mean every single rapper or every single fan, but the majority of both to the point where the minority is way too small to make a dent. Did I oversimplify in my first post? I don't don't think I did. I felt I explained who I was talking about and who I wasn't talking about. Obviously people like Common or Mos Def don't fit the mold I was criticzing, but a few rappers breaking out and doing something different on a small scale does nothing for the scene.
1. What I mean is that those things don't have a correlation to stupidity.
2. Ok, I guess your original post was just a little ambiguous, but this clarifies it.. at first you just said "rappers and most rap fans"...
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Hip Hop is still a young genre. Maybe 30 years from now a rapper will come out with an album that is a story from the eyes of another human being. It should evolve
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(IMO) Rap fans are closed minded. Don't get me wrong I'm a huge rap fan, but most of us (rap fans) are not open to music at all. Just look at how they treat 2 or 3 of the greatest mcees of all time. Mos Def, Andre 3000 and Kokane are often hate by rap fans just cause they are diferent from the normal-ass rapper like Cam'ron, 50 cent or The Game (just to name a few).
To be loved by most of the rap fans there is a "2 do list"
- Being from the ghetto
- Don't play another kind of music then rap
- Using the word bithes instead of woman or just girl
- Don't ever put a featuring unless it's another rapper
- Be Crunk (lmao)
- Being from the USA (international rapper don't get regocgnition at all), and i'm not talking about the racial issue
- Wearing XXXXXXXXXXXXXL shirts and pants
- Having 35000000000 pairs of air force 1
- etc...
If you don't fit this description you ain't a good rapper, at least in the eyes of most of the rap fans.
I love music and I love rappers who ain't affraid of the public opinion. Mos Def's the perfect example, he put out a CD with rock songs on it (IMO that's gangsta). B-Real, Sen Dog and Boo Yaa Tribe on the Transplant CD that's gangsta. Gza making a song with others peoples name that rhymes (Fame) that's gangsta. Kokane signing like a crooner and putting some dope back vocals that's gangsta...
Fuck all the real music haters out there
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To be loved by most of the rap fans there is a "2 do list"
- Being from the ghetto
- Don't play another kind of music then rap
- Using the word bithes instead of woman or just girl
- Don't ever put a featuring unless it's another rapper
- Be Crunk (lmao)
- Being from the USA (international rapper don't get regocgnition at all), and i'm not talking about the racial issue
- Wearing XXXXXXXXXXXXXL shirts and pants
- Having 35000000000 pairs of air force 1
- etc...
Not true... maybe it's because you people live in Canada or Europe so you have this perception... I dunno I'm in L.A. and your list sounds like bullshit coming from some suburban white square who goes by what he sees on t.v.
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In short rappers are stupid and so are most of their fans.
If anything is stupid, it's that comment of yours.
So then please give me examples of open mindedness in rap, as a whole. It';s real easy to call something stupid and give no other info. (for the record, I meant mainstream rappers. If you have a friend around the corner he doesn't count).
So far in rap, I hear about thugging, misogyny, sexism, drugs, rap skill, and whitey must die, and not much else. Give me examples that rap strays from these topics on a large scale. Show me how rap and the hip hop culture accepts the world outside their own, (and not connected to them).
1. Your original post stated "rappers are...", and you didn't specify mainstream until now. I agree with the list of concepts heard in rap music, but you can't relate that to stupidity.
2. The main reason why I stated that your comment was stupid is because of the second part of the comment where you stated that most rap fans are stupid. Just because a certain type of music appeals to you, doesn't make you stupid. But then again... you're a rap fan, and rap fans aren't open-minded, so you wouldn't be able to see that, now would you? :)
1. What do you meanby "you can't relate that to stupidity."? I'm not sure what that means.
2. I clearly made a point to say "(I'm not talking about the posters in this board, but more the fake and real thugs on the street that pretend they know music)" in my fist post. I guessed you missed it. The "hardcore" fan of today is not as prominant as it once was. In the early 70s a band like Pink Floyd could make Dark Side of The Moon and a large number of music fans would get into it and enjoy it. If that album was released today it would get no video or radio play and be rejected by the masses. The mainstream fan of today has been too conditioned, in my opinion. Not just in rap, but rap is the music of choice at the moment and the rap scene asa whole has suffered. I don't mean every single rapper or every single fan, but the majority of both to the point where the minority is way too small to make a dent. Did I oversimplify in my first post? I don't don't think I did. I felt I explained who I was talking about and who I wasn't talking about. Obviously people like Common or Mos Def don't fit the mold I was criticzing, but a few rappers breaking out and doing something different on a small scale does nothing for the scene.
1. What I mean is that those things don't have a correlation to stupidity.
2. Ok, I guess your original post was just a little ambiguous, but this clarifies it.. at first you just said "rappers and most rap fans"...
So according to you rapping about; how much of a violent gangster you are, how much inferior women are, dealing drugs, how great you are as a rapper, and racism, has nothing to do with stupidity? I wonder what does correlate with stupid to you.
Yeah I'm from Toronto, and we actually had hip hop going strong in Canada before you got it in LA, because of how close we are with New York. I've been and go to New York often and the only real difference is the size of the city. The rap fans aren't much different as a whole. You make it sound like I'm from some small town. You're the one from the place that the home of hip hop has criticized as second rate hip hop from day one.
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^^ "I´m so violent, I´m one hell of a gangsta, bitches ain´t shit but hoes and tricks, I sell crack to infants....", that does have to do with inferiority, ok. But rapping about the circumstances under which a lot of people turn that way and describing such an environment does not, and that´s what a lot of rappers do..."Illmatic" is so great because it vividly and at times poetically portrays the projects and a young man living there, while still revolving around exactly those subjects
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In short rappers are stupid and so are most of their fans.
If anything is stupid, it's that comment of yours.
So then please give me examples of open mindedness in rap, as a whole. It';s real easy to call something stupid and give no other info. (for the record, I meant mainstream rappers. If you have a friend around the corner he doesn't count).
So far in rap, I hear about thugging, misogyny, sexism, drugs, rap skill, and whitey must die, and not much else. Give me examples that rap strays from these topics on a large scale. Show me how rap and the hip hop culture accepts the world outside their own, (and not connected to them).
1. Your original post stated "rappers are...", and you didn't specify mainstream until now. I agree with the list of concepts heard in rap music, but you can't relate that to stupidity.
2. The main reason why I stated that your comment was stupid is because of the second part of the comment where you stated that most rap fans are stupid. Just because a certain type of music appeals to you, doesn't make you stupid. But then again... you're a rap fan, and rap fans aren't open-minded, so you wouldn't be able to see that, now would you? :)
1. What do you meanby "you can't relate that to stupidity."? I'm not sure what that means.
2. I clearly made a point to say "(I'm not talking about the posters in this board, but more the fake and real thugs on the street that pretend they know music)" in my fist post. I guessed you missed it. The "hardcore" fan of today is not as prominant as it once was. In the early 70s a band like Pink Floyd could make Dark Side of The Moon and a large number of music fans would get into it and enjoy it. If that album was released today it would get no video or radio play and be rejected by the masses. The mainstream fan of today has been too conditioned, in my opinion. Not just in rap, but rap is the music of choice at the moment and the rap scene asa whole has suffered. I don't mean every single rapper or every single fan, but the majority of both to the point where the minority is way too small to make a dent. Did I oversimplify in my first post? I don't don't think I did. I felt I explained who I was talking about and who I wasn't talking about. Obviously people like Common or Mos Def don't fit the mold I was criticzing, but a few rappers breaking out and doing something different on a small scale does nothing for the scene.
1. What I mean is that those things don't have a correlation to stupidity.
2. Ok, I guess your original post was just a little ambiguous, but this clarifies it.. at first you just said "rappers and most rap fans"...
So according to you rapping about; how much of a violent gangster you are, how much inferior women are, dealing drugs, how great you are as a rapper, and racism, has nothing to do with stupidity? I wonder what does correlate with stupid to you.
Yeah I'm from Toronto, and we actually had hip hop going strong in Canada before you got it in LA, because of how close we are with New York. I've been and go to New York often and the only real difference is the size of the city. The rap fans aren't much different as a whole. You make it sound like I'm from some small town. You're the one from the place that the home of hip hop has criticized as second rate hip hop from day one.
1. Knowing what makes money and selling out doesn't show a correlation to stupidity. For example, Chino XL is in MENSA, and if you believe he's stupid... then the only stupid one is you.
2. Yes, and since you're referring to mainstream hiphop in your post, we all know that all the mainstream stuff comes out of L.A., and none of it out of N.Y... fucking retard.. the fact that I live in L.A. doesn't have anything to do with L.A. rappers... unless now we get another thing coming out of your narrow mind which would imply that fans only listen to the rap music that originates in their city.
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Ok now let's be real here.
We all love hip hop but there has always been sort of a closed minded attitude and it's nothing new, it's been around since the 80's.
In the hiphop community, there has always been this mindstate about bein "real" and the whole "real hip hop" and such and such is not "real hip hop" and things of that nature.
How often have artists over the last 20 years gone against the grain only to have criticism heaped on them by the so-called "real hip hop heads"? If you have an r&b singer on a song, you're not real hip hop, if you rap over a band, you're not real hip hop, if you rap over funk instead of boom bap, you're not real hip hop, etc. That kind of mentality kills innovation.
I think now with money being a bigger factor than ever, I mean it was a factor before but now it's overwhelming, this meantality has taken another twist. Now you have to come up with a forumal that sounds like everything else or the record label won't promote your record, unless you're an established artist with a track record of sales (Nas, Common, Outkast, etc). Also Shallow is right in the sense that many of the commercial rappers out now aren't really artists and lack the ability to branch out and do different shit. Also, many fans are scared to listen to different shit or they won't support a record that doesn't have videos all over BET or isn't on rotation on Power 106 or 100.3 the beat.
Now to answer the original question, the reason why artists limit themselves is
A) They don't have the talent ot expand
B) They don't want take a risk and lose sales
C) Their label won't allow them to take risks
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Its not the artists... It's the fans. The Majority of rappers want to try something new. But, their core fans refuse to listen to it. Bubba Sparxxx made an amazing album, IMO, with Deliverance... Where is he now? Snoop branches out and works with new artists from other areas, what does he get? Hate. It's a lose/lose for artists nowadays. Fans dictate so much of Hip Hop, an artist can't truely be an artist. If FANS were more open-minded, Hip Hop would be too, as a whole.
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In the hiphop community, there has always been this mindstate about bein "real" and the whole "real hip hop" and such and such is not "real hip hop" and things of that nature.
How often have artists over the last 20 years gone against the grain only to have criticism heaped on them by the so-called "real hip hop heads"? If you have an r&b singer on a song, you're not real hip hop, if you rap over a band, you're not real hip hop, if you rap over funk instead of boom bap, you're not real hip hop, etc. That kind of mentality kills innovation.
I totally agree with that... but the thing is who are these "real hip hop heads"? Seriously, I know a lot of people who listen to hiphop and none of them fit the characteristics you guys ascribed to them.... the only time I really see people saying shit like that is online and most of the time it's squares from Norway trying to come off as gully hiphop heads.
The people I know... we listen to whatever... I'll listen to artists like 50 Cent at parties or whatever, or when you just wanna bump something in the car.... but then I'll also listen to shit like Immortal Technique, Ras Kass, Canibus, Pharoahe Monch, Chino XL, whatever... but you fruitcakes try to come with some bullshit like "rap fans don't like rappers unless they wear XXXXXXL shirts"... I mean what kinda retarded bullshit is that coming from some European or Canadian fucks
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In the hiphop community, there has always been this mindstate about bein "real" and the whole "real hip hop" and such and such is not "real hip hop" and things of that nature.
How often have artists over the last 20 years gone against the grain only to have criticism heaped on them by the so-called "real hip hop heads"? If you have an r&b singer on a song, you're not real hip hop, if you rap over a band, you're not real hip hop, if you rap over funk instead of boom bap, you're not real hip hop, etc. That kind of mentality kills innovation.
I totally agree with that... but the thing is who are these "real hip hop heads"? Seriously, I know a lot of people who listen to hiphop and none of them fit the characteristics you guys ascribed to them.... the only time I really see people saying shit like that is online and most of the time it's squares from Norway trying to come off as gully hiphop heads.
The people I know... we listen to whatever... I'll listen to artists like 50 Cent at parties or whatever, or when you just wanna bump something in the car.... but then I'll also listen to shit like Immortal Technique, Ras Kass, Canibus, Pharoahe Monch, Chino XL, whatever... but you fruitcakes try to come with some bullshit like "rap fans don't like rappers unless they wear XXXXXXL shirts"... I mean what kinda retarded bullshit is that coming from some European or Canadian fucks
Rodney O and Joe Cooley dissed r&b/rap collabos on "You Don't Hear Me Though" which came out in '93. Joint knocks hard tho.
Common complained about rappers rapping over funk and telling sad stories on "I Used to Love H.E.R."
I remember Buckshot dissing the Roots or rappers rapping over a band in one of his songs, sometime in the late '90s.
J-Live dissed Dr. Dre for rapping about 64 Impalas and saying that's not "real" on DJ Jazzy Jeff's album.
Tim Dog dissed all Compton rappers for no reason.
RZA called R&B rap and bullshit on Wu-Tang Forever.
This is along the lines of what I was talking about in my post.
I remember in the early 90's, I was always around the underground scene in the area due to one of my boys wanting to get on and some of those people were the most closeminded heads I've ever encountered. They were on that "real hip hop" type vibe I was talking about. If a rapper didn't fit that super-narrow definition of what real hip hop, they got hated on.
On the other hand, most of the peeps I hung out with back then would pretty much listen to anything, as long as it was good. It was a small group that was all on that "real" shit, but they were a vocal group. I think that kind of attitude has died down quite a bit but a new attitude has taken hold.
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They're money hungry and if it ain't broke, don't fix it. That's why half of them fall off.
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Kanye has a tendency to try new stuff cause his not afraid but he gets a lot of hate on this board fom the same people who r trying to get rappers to try new stuff
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^^ "I´m so violent, I´m one hell of a gangsta, bitches ain´t shit but hoes and tricks, I sell crack to infants....", that does have to do with inferiority, ok. But rapping about the circumstances under which a lot of people turn that way and describing such an environment does not, and that´s what a lot of rappers do..."Illmatic" is so great because it vividly and at times poetically portrays the projects and a young man living there, while still revolving around exactly those subjects
You make it seem like I am saying it about every single artist and every single album. Obviously there are ways to approach those issues creatively, but the bulk of the hip hop scene, particularly today, does not do so. The bulk of the scene consists of rappers that glorify those issues, and most of the rest of the scene consists of rappers that complain about rappers that glorify it. That leaves very little room for artistic growth.
You mention Nas with Illmatic, and that album was very good, but the next few albums weren't too different. He went on a slight "intellectual" tip for a while with his rhymes about world politics and such but the fact that he was often factually wrong and usually just saying shit to sound smart hurt his stance.
Where was Nas's artistic growth, or at least artistic shift? He had a tune here and there that was nice and pushed his talents but for the most part it's just the same shit. His flow didn't change much, his lyrics kept the same topics going; musically he had very little talent to begin with.
I get it when rappers have their debut ands they rap about where they're from and what they've seen, but after they "make it" they don't see or live what they rap about, and that's fine if they're trying new things with those same topics but when they aren't it's just boring and stagnant. There is more to their lives than what goes on in the streets but they ignore that when raping, for the most part, because the street doesn't accept that. The street doesn't want real artists they want gangsters and the ones that are considered artists are gang related rappers that slightly break the mold but never fully. If you talk to any gangster one on one you'll see a huge difference in who they are privately and who they are publicly. This is where a lot of rappers come from. It's not accepted to stray too far away from popular opinion.
Guys like Nas, Biggie, Jay Z, DMX, Snoop, never really artistically grew or changed all that much. Rap is based on lyrics more than anything and there lyrics from their first albums aren't much different from the rest of their albums, and in many cases worse as that go forward. I'm not talking about a song here and there but a whole album.
Let's take Springsteen for example. His first couple albums were just his take on a lot of things he saw growing up in Jersey and visiting New York. Anything from War vets returning home, to girl trouble, to adolescence, to the hardships of living righteous in the city, to getting lost in the pressures of street life. Then he made a trilogy of albums starting with trying to escape the confines of society, to breaking to lose, to getting trapped all over again and facing the aftermath. These albums included songs about making illegal deals, gang warfare, drag racing, rebelling against your father, running out on your family, teenage pregnancy, stealing cars, living in ghettos, and losing love. From there Springsteen made Nebraska and focused on the hardships of middle America and how the economy affects them. He had traveled the country by then and he had seen a lot more than what he had seen in just Jersey. He sang about murderers on trial, organized crime, and faith to keep going. That moved in to Born In The USA which took a lot of what Nebraska did and added a more universal aspect. Taking the hardships of poor middle America to the everyday problems of the rest of America. Tunnel of Love was about the dark side of married life, filled with jealousy, abandonment, and fighting your inner demons. He tried going a bit happier on his next two albums but that didn't work so well so he went back to the darkness of the poor with Ghost of Tom Joad, inspired by the Grapes of Wrath and every day Americans and American immigrants that come across the border, get out jail with out the tools need to make it in society, and living homeless. He then wrote about loss, inspired by 9/11 on the Rising album and most recently he made an album about compromise and consequences with songs about soldiers, the lack of identity in black youth and the troubles they go through, looking back on past sins and hoping you past won't affect your child’s future. That is what I call being artistic from a lyrical side.
A lot of musicians don't even focus on the lyrical because they try and change the artistic side of themselves musically. David Bowie is a great example, and so are the Beatles. In rap the focus is and always should be on lyrics, unless they start composing music on a grand scale.
1. Knowing what makes money and selling out doesn't show a correlation to stupidity. For example, Chino XL is in MENSA, and if you believe he's stupid... then the only stupid one is you.
You bring up making songs for the sake of making money, (which isn't artistic at all), because it's "smart", then you bring up a rapper who doesn't sell any records as your example of smart rappers. You make no sense. I never meant every rapper is an intellectual moron. I meant artistically the majority aren't that good.
2. Yes, and since you're referring to mainstream hiphop in your post, we all know that all the mainstream stuff comes out of L.A., and none of it out of N.Y... fucking retard.. the fact that I live in L.A. doesn't have anything to do with L.A. rappers... unless now we get another thing coming out of your narrow mind which would imply that fans only listen to the rap music that originates in their city.
You brought up "place" not me. You implied because I was from Canada I couldn't comprehend what hip hop was or how hip hop fans are. There has always been as much hip hop here as in LA. It's just that not many Canadian artists have gotten a break in the US.
Of course fans don't only listen to what originates in their city; so why the fuck do you keep bringing up this Canadian thing?
And who currently in the mainstream is from LA? Certainly not the majority. And certainly not historically.
And I don't even know why you're in this argument. You disagree with me for blaimng the fans yet agree with SGV for saying the same thing. THen you agree and disagree with Juronimo over the same things. Youre crazy. Pick a side and stick to it.
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Its not the artists... It's the fans. The Majority of rappers want to try something new. But, their core fans refuse to listen to it. Bubba Sparxxx made an amazing album, IMO, with Deliverance... Where is he now? Snoop branches out and works with new artists from other areas, what does he get? Hate. It's a lose/lose for artists nowadays. Fans dictate so much of Hip Hop, an artist can't truely be an artist. If FANS were more open-minded, Hip Hop would be too, as a whole.
Snoop is a different issue, and in fact is more proof of hiphop artists limiting themselves than being an example of them not. Hes gone and worked with the Neptunes who are what is considered "hot" at the moment, its hardly a major artistic breakthrough. If Snoop did an album with ex-members of Parliament, Funkdelic, and some new funk guys playing new stuff live over it, and really funked out, that would show that he wasn't limiting himself artistically, and would almost be him going full circle back to the roots of his first album, without just revisiting it.
The major problem I see is that a lot of rappers don't wanna risk doing some "out there" stuff for fear of losing their reputation. Prince Paul has said it numerous times in interviews that there were times where he'd come up with the best concepts ever, but couldn't find any rappers who shared the vision to make an album based on them. Beneath the surface of "commercial" hiphop there are many talented and creative artists, but the hiphop mainstream is just driven by what teenagers are going to buy, and there are too many rappers willing to "sell out" in order to get a piece of that market.
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1. Knowing what makes money and selling out doesn't show a correlation to stupidity. For example, Chino XL is in MENSA, and if you believe he's stupid... then the only stupid one is you.
You bring up making songs for the sake of making money, (which isn't artistic at all), because it's "smart", then you bring up a rapper who doesn't sell any records as your example of smart rappers. You make no sense. I never meant every rapper is an intellectual moron. I meant artistically the majority aren't that good.
I never said it was smart, don't put words in my mouth. I said it has no correlation to stupidity. If you were to say that you're not stupid, would it automatically mean that you're smart? Is everything zero-sum with you?
Yeah I brought up a rapper who doesn't sell any records as an example of smart rappers, but not once did I say that selling records has a correlation to intelligence. You make no sense, and the only time you make yourself believe that you do, is when you misinterpret others' words.
2. Yes, and since you're referring to mainstream hiphop in your post, we all know that all the mainstream stuff comes out of L.A., and none of it out of N.Y... fucking retard.. the fact that I live in L.A. doesn't have anything to do with L.A. rappers... unless now we get another thing coming out of your narrow mind which would imply that fans only listen to the rap music that originates in their city.
And who currently in the mainstream is from LA? Certainly not the majority. And certainly not historically.
It was meant as sarcasm.. guess I overestimated your ability to sense it.
And I don't even know why you're in this argument. You disagree with me for blaimng the fans yet agree with SGV for saying the same thing. THen you agree and disagree with Juronimo over the same things. Youre crazy. Pick a side and stick to it.
I disagree with you stating that the fans are stupid. Where in SGV's posts do you see him stating that fans are stupid... maybe he believes it, but it's not in his post.... and later when you clarified yourself, I told you that I agreed with what you said because you didn't make it clear in your original post. You seem to be getting your panties wet over nothing these days... maybe we should hold the arguing for 4-7 days.
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You said not stupid then you brought up examples of smart by stating Mensa. It was a more than clear implication. Much clearer than your sarcasm, which almost never translates well in writing.
I feel I made it very clear from the first post and you were the only one to confuse it. I feel it's stupid to not accept artistic growth from artists and I also feel it's stupid for artists to resist artistic growth. I do not mean this in an econimical way. I mean that rappers tend to think it has to be done a certain way and refuse to accept many things.
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You said not stupid then you brought up examples of smart by stating Mensa. It was a more than clear implication. Much clearer than your sarcasm, which almost never translates well in writing.
I feel I made it very clear from the first post and you were the only one to confuse it. I feel it's stupid to not accept artistic growth from artists and I also feel it's stupid for artists to resist artistic growth. I do not mean this in an econimical way. I mean that rappers tend to think it has to be done a certain way and refuse to accept many things.
Yeah, I already stated earlier that your post was a bit ambiguous until you cleared it up... and that I understood what you meant after you clarified it. This is the third time I'm telling you this, but then again... you are the self-proclaimed "most stubborn" poster. :)
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Snoop is a different issue, and in fact is more proof of hiphop artists limiting themselves than being an example of them not. Hes gone and worked with the Neptunes who are what is considered "hot" at the moment, its hardly a major artistic breakthrough. If Snoop did an album with ex-members of Parliament, Funkdelic, and some new funk guys playing new stuff live over it, and really funked out, that would show that he wasn't limiting himself artistically, and would almost be him going full circle back to the roots of his first album, without just revisiting it.
Snoop was downed for working virtual nobodies on the 213 albm... So it's a lose / lose like I said. No matter what he does, people always have a problem.
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You said not stupid then you brought up examples of smart by stating Mensa. It was a more than clear implication. Much clearer than your sarcasm, which almost never translates well in writing.
I feel I made it very clear from the first post and you were the only one to confuse it. I feel it's stupid to not accept artistic growth from artists and I also feel it's stupid for artists to resist artistic growth. I do not mean this in an econimical way. I mean that rappers tend to think it has to be done a certain way and refuse to accept many things.
Yeah, I already stated earlier that your post was a bit ambiguous until you cleared it up... and that I understood what you meant after you clarified it. This is the third time I'm telling you this, but then again... you are the self-proclaimed "most stubborn" poster. :)
I just wanted to make sure we were all clear with everything and that no one else confused what I meant. And you did imply "smart". ;)
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Yeah, I said Chino XL was smart because of MENSA. His high IQ made me consider him smart in that sense, and if you disagree, then be it. :)
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Shallow you have NO idea what is going on in America with young Black people, but you are always on this site like you are some kind of hip hop doctor with the solution for the culture. Hip Hop music is being streamlined to the youth, in the form of commercial rap which deals with a limited subject matter that caters to peoples baser instincts. THIS IS THE WAY OF AMERICA, GET PAID, GET BITCHES, FLOSS, SHOOT A MOTHERFUCKA IF HE GET IN YOUR WAY. Its called CAPITALISM. Thank the Major record labels for this formula. Dont blame the rappers because in the 80s and 90s there was alot more subject matter in hip hop.
ONE MORE THING DONT EVER DIS LA CUZ I BEEN TO T.O. AND NEW YORK AND WE(LA) GET WAY MORE RESPECT IN HIP HOP THAN YALL.
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Shallow you have NO idea what is going on in America with young Black people, but you are always on this site like you are some kind of hip hop doctor with the solution for the culture. Hip Hop music is being streamlined to the youth, in the form of commercial rap which deals with a limited subject matter that caters to peoples baser instincts. THIS IS THE WAY OF AMERICA, GET PAID, GET BITCHES, FLOSS, SHOOT A MOTHERFUCKA IF HE GET IN YOUR WAY. Its called CAPITALISM. Thank the Major record labels for this formula. Dont blame the rappers because in the 80s and 90s there was alot more subject matter in hip hop.
ONE MORE THING DONT EVER DIS LA CUZ I BEEN TO T.O. AND NEW YORK AND WE(LA) GET WAY MORE RESPECT IN HIP HOP THAN YALL.
How do you know what I know about Black American Youth? The Black Youth in Toronto aren't much different than the ones in New York. I've seen both. I've also seen it in Detroit and Chicago. and I never dissed LA, I was just elling Jamal we get hip hop here too.
Canada is capitolist too, and America has been capitolist for a long time, so why is hip hop the only music to over glorify all things negative. Even Metal which was pegged as Satanic really wasn't for the most the most part.
Jamal; I never said Chino wasn't smart.
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I got relatives in Canada. My grandfather is Jamaican. West Indians is different than niggas in the states, but if you aint BLACK then you aint qualified to speak on it. Toronto niggas DO NOT LIKE NIGGAS IN AMERICA, dont front, REMEMBER, I GOT RELATIVES UP THERE. Canada is MAD LIBERAL compared to AMERICA. BLACK YOUTH IN CANADA GOT HEATH CARE, BLACK YOUTH IN CANADA GOT OSAP TO GO TO COLLEGE, BLACK YOUTH IN CANADA GOT MORE EFECTIVE LAWS AGAINST RACISM, BLACK YOUTH IN CANADA DONT HAVE EASY ACCESS TO AUTOMATIC WEAPONS, BLACK YOUTH IN CANADA DONT HAVE A INNER CITY RACE WAR WITH MEXICANS, BLACK YOUTH IN CANADA DONT HAVE A GANG CULTURE THAT EXIST IN THE STREETS SINCE THE 1940S.
Dont get me wrong I love my brothers and sisters in Canada Black & White, but shit is so FUCKED UP over here that Niggas rap about what they know and see.
It shouldnt have to be like that, but thats how FUCKED UP SHIT IS.
I live in Detroit now, but I was raised on the WS of POMONA, CALIFORNIA, SO SAVE THAT WEST COAST HATING SHIT CUZ WE GOT UNDERGROUND RAPPERS THAT WILL EAT ANY TORONTO RAPPERS FOOD.
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I got relatives in Canada. My grandfather is Jamaican. West Indians is different than niggas in the states, but if you aint BLACK then you aint qualified to speak on it. Toronto niggas DO NOT LIKE NIGGAS IN AMERICA, dont front, REMEMBER, I GOT RELATIVES UP THERE. Canada is MAD LIBERAL compared to AMERICA. BLACK YOUTH IN CANADA GOT HEATH CARE, BLACK YOUTH IN CANADA GOT OSAP TO GO TO COLLEGE, BLACK YOUTH IN CANADA GOT MORE EFECTIVE LAWS AGAINST RACISM, BLACK YOUTH IN CANADA DONT HAVE EASY ACCESS TO AUTOMATIC WEAPONS, BLACK YOUTH IN CANADA DONT HAVE A INNER CITY RACE WAR WITH MEXICANS, BLACK YOUTH IN CANADA DONT HAVE A GANG CULTURE THAT EXIST IN THE STREETS SINCE THE 1940S.
Dont get me wrong I love my brothers and sisters in Canada Black & White, but shit is so FUCKED UP over here that Niggas rap about what they know and see.
It shouldnt have to be like that, but thats how FUCKED UP SHIT IS.
I live in Detroit now, but I was raised on the WS of POMONA, CALIFORNIA, SO SAVE THAT WEST COAST HATING SHIT CUZ WE GOT UNDERGROUND RAPPERS THAT WILL EAT ANY TORONTO RAPPERS FOOD.
I don't know any black that hates Americans. Toronto may not be as bad as the USA but parts of Jamaica, Grenada, and Trinidad cane be and a lot of these kids come straight from there. Like I said I've been to hoods on both sides of the border and I agree they have it easier up here but the mentality isn't much different. Anyway that isn't the point, and I don't buy that "if you ain't black garbage". I have eyes and ears and I can see and hear. No one makes a fuss when blacks talk about whites and says blacks can't understand.
Let's talk about Rock and Roll and The Blues. When these were the music of choice blacks had it way worse in America than they do now, yet the music didn't focus on the negatives of society in a glorifying way like it does now. You said it; Gangs were running since the 40s. Where was the gangster music then?
And for the last time I wasn't dissing LA's rap scene, I was just taking a shot back at Jamal for dissing Canada. But you can't say that LA has the rap scene New York has and that's all I was saying. I never said Toronto had a better scene. I just said it had a scene.
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Shallow: Black Gangs have been prominent in the last 30 some years. Even then, it wasn't until the 80's that it reached it's peak and began influencing the black-culture. That's why you hear it in Black music today.
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Shallow: Black Gangs have been prominent in the last 30 some years. Even then, it wasn't until the 80's that it reached it's peak and began influencing the black-culture. That's why you hear it in Black music today.
Bumpy Johnson came out out of a very gang oriented Harlem back in the 20s. The difference was that back then music focused on music and not thug lyrics or becoming celebrities. The reason it's so prominant now is because some rich white and jewish guys realizeg images to suburban kids and popularized that style across the country. This lead young blacks to believe they could become rich this way and that negative style grew. If NWA never sold 2 million records and Dre and Snoop didn't almost double that thwn I'm certain the negative style never would have spread the way it did and become what it has become. It will end once the fad dies out then hip hop can start progessing again.
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i think the labels and fans are the ones holding hip hop back the most. if an artist wanna go left field and talk about something "real" that doesn´t involve selling drugs,killing people or other negative things the labels will very rarely get behind it and give it that push that they give 50 Cent,Jay-Z,DMX,Game,G-Unit etc etc. and on the other hand if the average hip hop consumer would refuse to buy that so called "real" shit and go out and support the indie artists then the major labels had to switch their game up. but of course the labels won´t start promoting a positive image and social music if the fans won´t demand it instead of the regular bullshit that are fed to us everyday via Viacom and other payola networks. and of course some blame is on the artists and a lot of them don´t have any artistic integrity so they´ll do whatever for the dollar but very often artists gets signed with the promise that they will be allowed to say whatever they wanna say but once those papers are signed it´s a completely different story and they´ll come up with a gimmick to market you and force you to make certain music and if you don´t follow suit you´ll get dropped. so obviously you´re gonna go with program coz very few people will get a second chance in the music business just ask any former Aftermath artists(Joe Beast,Brooklyn,Hittman etc). and unfortunately i myself sometimes support this bullshit music but i also support music that deals with real issues and if most rap fans would support both sides it would balance itself out but at the moment it doesn´t. *goes off to bump Paid In Full* and damn i noticed i typed something that´s hella long that didn´t really say anything.
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Bubba Sparxxx made an amazing album, IMO, with Deliverance... Where is he now?
Damn, I thought I was the only one that thought Deliverance was great.
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Bumpy Johnson came out out of a very gang oriented Harlem back in the 20s. The difference was that back then music focused on music and not thug lyrics or becoming celebrities. The reason it's so prominant now is because some rich white and jewish guys realizeg images to suburban kids and popularized that style across the country. This lead young blacks to believe they could become rich this way and that negative style grew. If NWA never sold 2 million records and Dre and Snoop didn't almost double that thwn I'm certain the negative style never would have spread the way it did and become what it has become. It will end once the fad dies out then hip hop can start progessing again.
Gang's in the 20's were MUCH different as Gang's in the 80's. Not even comparable. Like I said, 80's was the peak of Black gangs. That is why you see it as such an influence in their music today. It will not die down as long as people are in the streets gang banging. Everyone talked about street shit from Melle Mel in the "Message" on down. It's a staple of Hip Hop. It started in the streets, will die in the streets.
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Bumpy Johnson came out out of a very gang oriented Harlem back in the 20s. The difference was that back then music focused on music and not thug lyrics or becoming celebrities. The reason it's so prominant now is because some rich white and jewish guys realizeg images to suburban kids and popularized that style across the country. This lead young blacks to believe they could become rich this way and that negative style grew. If NWA never sold 2 million records and Dre and Snoop didn't almost double that thwn I'm certain the negative style never would have spread the way it did and become what it has become. It will end once the fad dies out then hip hop can start progessing again.
Gang's in the 20's were MUCH different as Gang's in the 80's. Not even comparable. Like I said, 80's was the peak of Black gangs. That is why you see it as such an influence in their music today. It will not die down as long as people are in the streets gang banging. Everyone talked about street shit from Melle Mel in the "Message" on down. It's a staple of Hip Hop. It started in the streets, will die in the streets.
Of course it won't exclude the streets. Marvin Gaye talked about the streets too. So did Bruce Springsteen. What I mean is that the glorification and bragging about the negative will die out when the commercial aspect is gone. The Message was a great song but it was nothing like the shit that comes out of 50s mouth. gangsta Rap will die out in the mainstream like all popular music does and rap will come back to the underground at which point it will change.
P.S. I never knew you were around in the 30s. Gangland warfare was probably worse back then. Most of the black gangs worked as enforcers for mobsters and that was some crazy shit. The bottom line is it was proven in an article I read about rap and video games corrupting youth that per capita there is no more gang related activity now then there was in 1960, 1930, or 1900. I'm not talking exclusivley about blacks.
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Of course it won't exclude the streets. Marvin Gaye talked about the streets too. So did Bruce Springsteen. What I mean is that the glorification and bragging about the negative will die out when the commercial aspect is gone. The Message was a great song but it was nothing like the shit that comes out of 50s mouth. gangsta Rap will die out in the mainstream like all popular music does and rap will come back to the underground at which point it will change.
P.S. I never knew you were around in the 30s. Gangland warfare was probably worse back then. Most of the black gangs worked as enforcers for mobsters and that was some crazy shit. The bottom line is it was proven in an article I read about rap and video games corrupting youth that per capita there is no more gang related activity now then there was in 1960, 1930, or 1900. I'm not talking exclusivley about blacks.
Listen to Just Ice or Schooly D. It's been in Hip Hop since it started. Glorification of Street life is NEVER leaving. Sorry.
And, Shallow, we're talking Blacks. What I-Talian or Russian's did isn't really of much interest here.
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Of course it won't exclude the streets. Marvin Gaye talked about the streets too. So did Bruce Springsteen. What I mean is that the glorification and bragging about the negative will die out when the commercial aspect is gone. The Message was a great song but it was nothing like the shit that comes out of 50s mouth. gangsta Rap will die out in the mainstream like all popular music does and rap will come back to the underground at which point it will change.
P.S. I never knew you were around in the 30s. Gangland warfare was probably worse back then. Most of the black gangs worked as enforcers for mobsters and that was some crazy shit. The bottom line is it was proven in an article I read about rap and video games corrupting youth that per capita there is no more gang related activity now then there was in 1960, 1930, or 1900. I'm not talking exclusivley about blacks.
Listen to Just Ice or Schooly D. It's been in Hip Hop since it started. Glorification of Street life is NEVER leaving. Sorry.
And, Shallow, we're talking Blacks. What I-Talian or Russian's did isn't really of much interest here.
I'm talking about the secene in general, not a couple rappers. Hip Hop in general had very little to do with Gangsta Rap until NWA and later Dre alone hit it big commercially. There were a lot more Run DMCs than Ice Ts in 1987 and before.
Harlem was notorious for it's black gangs in the 20s and 30s. They had a lot to do with lottery gambling, prostitution and drugs. But the music was Jazz and it was never about thug life or the life of crimne on a stupid way. Artists were artists and thugs were thugs. Real gangsters turn to art to get away from the reality of the street while the fake wanabe thugs make thug art to seem more credible. Lately it had shifted slightly, but it will shift back once there is no money to be made with it.
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I'm talking about the secene in general, not a couple rappers. Hip Hop in general had very little to do with Gangsta Rap until NWA and later Dre alone hit it big commercially. There were a lot more Run DMCs than Ice Ts in 1987 and before.
Harlem was notorious for it's black gangs in the 20s and 30s. They had a lot to do with lottery gambling, prostitution and drugs. But the music was Jazz and it was never about thug life or the life of crimne on a stupid way. Artists were artists and thugs were thugs. Real gangsters turn to art to get away from the reality of the street while the fake wanabe thugs make thug art to seem more credible. Lately it had shifted slightly, but it will shift back once there is no money to be made with it.
Commercially, yes. The Ice-T's, Just Ice's, N.W.A.'s etc. were lesser known at the time. But, they made a HUGE impact on Hip Hop because the streets related to what they had to say. Which is why Gangsta rap isn't gonna die out Commercially.
Now, sure, Harlem had it's gangs, but it never spread like Bloods, Crips, Folks, GD's and Vice Lords. Those are the reasons Hip Hop is why it is the way it is. I don't know why you don't get it.
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I'm talking about the secene in general, not a couple rappers. Hip Hop in general had very little to do with Gangsta Rap until NWA and later Dre alone hit it big commercially. There were a lot more Run DMCs than Ice Ts in 1987 and before.
Harlem was notorious for it's black gangs in the 20s and 30s. They had a lot to do with lottery gambling, prostitution and drugs. But the music was Jazz and it was never about thug life or the life of crimne on a stupid way. Artists were artists and thugs were thugs. Real gangsters turn to art to get away from the reality of the street while the fake wanabe thugs make thug art to seem more credible. Lately it had shifted slightly, but it will shift back once there is no money to be made with it.
Commercially, yes. The Ice-T's, Just Ice's, N.W.A.'s etc. were lesser known at the time. But, they made a HUGE impact on Hip Hop because the streets related to what they had to say. Which is why Gangsta rap isn't gonna die out Commercially.
Now, sure, Harlem had it's gangs, but it never spread like Bloods, Crips, Folks, GD's and Vice Lords. Those are the reasons Hip Hop is why it is the way it is. I don't know why you don't get it.
Everything dies out commercially. Why can't you get that? You think rap is going to be a big seller forever? It's like saying shock TV and reality TV are going to drive the TV industry forever. Shock TV hada huge spike with Jerry Springer and the WWF, but both of those are way down in popularity and Reality TV is starting to show it's fading. Rap will be replaced by a new pop music. That's just what happens. Will rap cease to exist? No, but it won't be the commercial driving force it is now.
As for the thugs, you make it sound like the majority of blacks in America are gang members. The majority of gangsta rappers probably aren't even gangsters, and more gang related. There are plenty of kids in the ghetto areas that don't gang bang and if you think the children of the current black teens and young adults are going to be into the same music that their parents are in to then your crazy. nNot only will Gangsta Rap fall from it's high horse as this sales monster but it will vanish faster than you can say Grunge, Hair Metal, Frat Rock, or Motown RnB. If you expect to be hearing gangsta rap as a major force in music 10 to 25 years from now then you better brace yourself for a surprise.
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Everything dies out commercially. Why can't you get that? You think rap is going to be a big seller forever? It's like saying shock TV and reality TV are going to drive the TV industry forever. Shock TV hada huge spike with Jerry Springer and the WWF, but both of those are way down in popularity and Reality TV is starting to show it's fading. Rap will be replaced by a new pop music. That's just what happens. Will rap cease to exist? No, but it won't be the commercial driving force it is now.
As for the thugs, you make it sound like the majority of blacks in America are gang members. The majority of gangsta rappers probably aren't even gangsters, and more gang related. There are plenty of kids in the ghetto areas that don't gang bang and if you think the children of the current black teens and young adults are going to be into the same music that their parents are in to then your crazy. nNot only will Gangsta Rap fall from it's high horse as this sales monster but it will vanish faster than you can say Grunge, Hair Metal, Frat Rock, or Motown RnB. If you expect to be hearing gangsta rap as a major force in music 10 to 25 years from now then you better brace yourself for a surprise.
Commerically, like I said, Rap's about Gangsta shit will always top Hip Hop. Period.
Gang's are not going anywhere. While banging is not at it's peak right now, it's still deep. You don't understand that because you're in a different country. Understand: Bloods and Crips are NEW to NY. Bloods and Crips are still active in L.A. (along with Latin Gangs). Gangs are beginning to spread heavily to different countries (Read up on El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala). I can go on. You just don't seem to understand, as long as there is Rap and Gangs there WILL be Gangsta rap.
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Everything dies out commercially. Why can't you get that? You think rap is going to be a big seller forever? It's like saying shock TV and reality TV are going to drive the TV industry forever. Shock TV hada huge spike with Jerry Springer and the WWF, but both of those are way down in popularity and Reality TV is starting to show it's fading. Rap will be replaced by a new pop music. That's just what happens. Will rap cease to exist? No, but it won't be the commercial driving force it is now.
As for the thugs, you make it sound like the majority of blacks in America are gang members. The majority of gangsta rappers probably aren't even gangsters, and more gang related. There are plenty of kids in the ghetto areas that don't gang bang and if you think the children of the current black teens and young adults are going to be into the same music that their parents are in to then your crazy. nNot only will Gangsta Rap fall from it's high horse as this sales monster but it will vanish faster than you can say Grunge, Hair Metal, Frat Rock, or Motown RnB. If you expect to be hearing gangsta rap as a major force in music 10 to 25 years from now then you better brace yourself for a surprise.
Commerically, like I said, Rap's about Gangsta shit will always top Hip Hop. Period.
Gang's are not going anywhere. While banging is not at it's peak right now, it's still deep. You don't understand that because you're in a different country. Understand: Bloods and Crips are NEW to NY. Bloods and Crips are still active in L.A. (along with Latin Gangs). Gangs are beginning to spread heavily to different countries (Read up on El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala). I can go on. You just don't seem to understand, as long as there is Rap and Gangs there WILL be Gangsta rap.
We have gangs in Toronto too. It's actually a little different here because in Toronto the ghettos are made small but there are many of them. Just in a 20 minute walking distance I can go to 5 or 6 different ghettos. In the city altogether there are a lot more and a lot of these gangsters come from the Carribean where there was worse gang wars going on. Rap is the main focus as far as music goes and gangsta rap is that main focus.
Maybe you're right to say as long as rap is commercial it'll be at the top, but rap won't be commercial for too long and when the thugs realize there isn't money to be made in music then it'll go back to the artists. It's already shifted a bit in the sense that it's alot more about bragging about riches than bragging about thugging. Don't tell me you think rap is going to stay on top forever, or even 5 to 10 years from now.
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We have gangs in Toronto too. It's actually a little different here because in Toronto the ghettos are made small but there are many of them. Just in a 20 minute walking distance I can go to 5 or 6 different ghettos. In the city altogether there are a lot more and a lot of these gangsters come from the Carribean where there was worse gang wars going on. Rap is the main focus as far as music goes and gangsta rap is that main focus.
Maybe you're right to say as long as rap is commercial it'll be at the top, but rap won't be commercial for too long and when the thugs realize there isn't money to be made in music then it'll go back to the artists. It's already shifted a bit in the sense that it's alot more about bragging about riches than bragging about thugging. Don't tell me you think rap is going to stay on top forever, or even 5 to 10 years from now.
I'm very sure there's people already rappin' that gangsta shit in Toronto, too. Cuz that's their environment. I guess you don't understand that yet. These gangs have become apart of people's family history. Families have generations of bangers from the same set. How could it not influence their music?
I never once said Rap was gonna be on top forever? Where did you get that from? Stick on the subject man.
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shallow why do you post here. Ive never seen you say one positive thing about rap, so why waste your time. are you a rock fan that enjoys busting the balls of rap fans. Look if you hate rap so much an think its inferior to every other genre of music and nas aint worthy of suckin bruce springstein off, why keep pounding it into our heads for. We really dont care, we enjoy and thats all that matters.
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We have gangs in Toronto too. It's actually a little different here because in Toronto the ghettos are made small but there are many of them. Just in a 20 minute walking distance I can go to 5 or 6 different ghettos. In the city altogether there are a lot more and a lot of these gangsters come from the Carribean where there was worse gang wars going on. Rap is the main focus as far as music goes and gangsta rap is that main focus.
Maybe you're right to say as long as rap is commercial it'll be at the top, but rap won't be commercial for too long and when the thugs realize there isn't money to be made in music then it'll go back to the artists. It's already shifted a bit in the sense that it's alot more about bragging about riches than bragging about thugging. Don't tell me you think rap is going to stay on top forever, or even 5 to 10 years from now.
I'm very sure there's people already rappin' that gangsta shit in Toronto, too. Cuz that's their environment. I guess you don't understand that yet. These gangs have become apart of people's family history. Families have generations of bangers from the same set. How could it not influence their music?
I never once said Rap was gonna be on top forever? Where did you get that from? Stick on the subject man.
You said I couldn't understand because I was in another country, that's why I brought it up. You also implied that Gansta Rap isn't going anywhere, but I'm saying when rap falls it will change it's focus. The thug shit will get boring even to the thugs. In fact most of the higher level thugs who have served a few bids for everything from armed robbery to murder don't even listen to gangsta rap or rap all that much. They listen to anything from Marvin to Peter Macintosh. It's the fake thugs that do most of the gansta rapping around here and from what I've read from interviews by gang members most of the rapping below the border too.
With every generation tastes change. 80s music was nothing like 90s music as a whole and and the 2010s will be nothing like the 2000s most likely. Not just in the main stream but at home. All it'll take is for one rapper from the hood to make a huge album about something other than glorifying gang life amd objectifying women and it'll change the whole game because people will star flocking to that style. It doesn't have to be religious. It could be anything. It could be about race car driving for all I know. Or here's a thought, it could be about real life situations in a realistic objective light, and it's out there already. Al it needs is the right people to start buying it (suburban white kids) and the major record labels will start dropping gangsta rappers.
And Corey. I came here about 4 years ago as a West Coast Hip Hop fan. Since that time I have been listenining to other kindds of music and watched rap destroy itself creatively. I'm not complaing, I'm just calling it hoow it is. To quote Jeru the Damaja; "99.9 Pa Cent of these niggas ain't shit". Replace "niggas" with rappers and you'll see my opinion.