West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: J Bananas on September 28, 2005, 01:49:17 PM
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OK, I'm gonna catch a lot of shit but whatever. When i see acts like Atmosphere, Aesop Rock, etc... I cant help but think that hip hop is doomed before long. I know you're gonna wanna say, "no it's the shitty top 40 rappers that are destroying it", No. The thing about mainstream rap is that it is still a black mans game and it still contains the energy and rawness that made the genre so big in the first place. So many underground cats are sick of it so what do they do? make the polar opposite. Now this may attract a lot of white kids and shit who are tired of their SDE tape and want to be part of some intelligent movement, but what these "educated" albums are doing is just making it safe for white people to intervene and do whatever to the music in the name of "art". So many suburban kids have now found an outlet thru these self concious artisitic rappers because they can relate to it, so then they start their own projects, and soon there's a whole white rap scene. The problem with this is, since we live in a white world, its only a matter of time before this gets taken over as mainstream rap, and all the hardcore dudes we dont hear from again. The same thing happened with jazz, and its only a matter of time before it happens to hip hop.
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no, backpack is tight, there are a lot of skilled white rappers out there
I seriously don't get how you can hate aesop rock or atmosphere.
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What most Backpackers don't understand is that they're trying to change Hip Hop. They call Aesop Rock real, but Nelly fake. Nelly is no different than a Sugar Hill Gang. Feel good music meant for partying. Hip Hop was partially born in the Clubs/Parties, it will never change.
They big up Atmosphere, but down Ja Rule. Ja isn't much different than LL. The worst is that they dickride someone like Big L, but they're quick to deny someone like Jadakiss. They're almost the same exact rapper. They has a similar rhyme structure, their content ain't much different. etc. Only difference is... Jada's Platinum.
Backpackers are dying to see their favorite rappers in that spot, but since your Eyedea's, Aesop's and El-P's haven't mastered the art of making "universal music," they'll be stuck in their mediocre ways until they retire.
Its not the artists, it's the fans that make Backpack rap look bad. Just my 2 cents.
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no, backpack is tight, there are a lot of skilled white rappers out there
I seriously don't get how you can hate aesop rock or atmosphere.
Probably because they're garbage. Their ear for beats are horrible. Aesop's voice is good, but his flow is terrible. Slug is the opposite, nice flow, shitty voice. Aesop spits non-sensical rhymes... Only people who could/can do that and look good doing it is Kool Keith and ODB, as they made it a style. Overall, they don't have much to offer outside of "lyrics."
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no, backpack is tight, there are a lot of skilled white rappers out there
I seriously don't get how you can hate aesop rock or atmosphere.
Probably because they're garbage. Their ear for beats are horrible. Aesop's voice is good, but his flow is terrible. Slug is the opposite, nice flow, shitty voice. Aesop spits non-sensical rhymes... Only people who could/can do that and look good doing it is Kool Keith and ODB, as they made it a style. Overall, they don't have much to offer outside of "lyrics."
yea they don't belong to the greatest or some shit... but garbage? no I don't think so. if you only listen to rap for the hooks and the beats, yes. it's nothing for women, that's for sure. no subliminal diss or something (seriously). I like rap that is more focused on the raps. not just written words, also flow etc... rapverses first, rest next. most backpackers focus on raps. But there are of course other rappers out with great raps who are nothing like backpack, like Saigon, Crooked I, Immortal Technique, Tecca etc; they have better beats too.
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Aesop Rock and Atmosphere are horrible. I've never heard anything by them remotely listenable.
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Aesop Rock or Atmosphere are horrible. I've never heard anything by them remotely listenable.
Ever heard Godlovesugly by Atmosphere or Daylight by Aesop Rock? Tight tracks.
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yea they don't belong to the greatest or some shit... but garbage? no I don't think so. if you only listen to rap for the hooks and the beats, yes. it's nothing for women, that's for sure. no subliminal diss or something (seriously). I like rap that is more focused on the raps. not just written words, also flow etc... rapverses first, rest next. most backpackers focus on raps. But there are of course other rappers out with great raps who are nothing like backpack, like Saigon, Crooked I, Immortal Technique, Tecca etc; they have better beats too.
Thing is with Atmosphere, they have a strong female following. Cuz Slug is a chick rapper... I listen for the overall. I don't need mind boggling lyrics if the rest of the song is wack. I think Papoose, Saigon, IT and early Crooked I displayed my favorite type of Hip Hop. Great lyrics & beats, hot concepts, good voices etc. They brougt a complete package. The Slug's of Hip Hop are very one track minded, IMO.
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lol at "nothing for women", of course itīs particularly a male tendency to get into this type a shit, but like there are no female backpackers ::)
however, back to the main subject, J Bananas, there is one thing I particularly disagree with: El-P and Anticon or whoeverthehell turning mainstream. What white rappers have had mainstream success? Vanilla Ice for teenie bopper crap hiphop. Eminem because he deserved it...but it doesnīt go that much further. Those deliberately dissonant and weird ass beats, those we-never-heard-of-a-word-called-rhythm flows, the letīs-distort-some-strange-noises stuff - how can you imagine that turning mainstream?
Of course, backpacker rap (I donīt like this type of classification thogh) appeals mainly to white listeners and is mainly done by whites. But the audience will always remain small; itīs not your 12-year old school girl and itīs not your white burb wigga. Neither is it people who seriously try to explore hiphop, or at least they spend little time listening to that stuff. Mostly itīs young urban whites trying to be īdifferentī and intellectual. That will never be a majority and the music itself prevents the genre from becoming popular.
Hence, backpacker music lacks a lot of īpowerī it would take to have a devastating effect on hiphop. To put it simply, let those cats just do their thing, listen to it if you like it and if you donīt, nevermind. Itīs not a threat...
...oh yeah, I agree with most of what SGV said
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shit is gay, I agree with SGV
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shit gay man, that all I have to say
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I like backpack shit and enjoy bumpin Atmosphere. How are they killing hip-hop when they hardly get any exposure? lol Top 40 rappers are doing way more damage.
Backpack rap just brings another outlet in the game. I know personally, I don't wanna hear about gats, gangbangin and other agressive shit 24/7, because that ain't me. Sometimes, I like to bump some hip hop that's more emotional and different. Why people hate on backpack rap so much is beyond me since it gets no attention by the mainstream.
I welcome the alternative.......yeah, and I'm a nigga so go figure.
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get off the atmosphere Aesop topic...its bout backpackers and they were just naming those two as examples, get back to comparison of the difference in music. "Backpack" hip hop is tight tho, u need variety in music, some people need the party make um jump up n down shit, and some need the Makes sense bout life shit. problem with people who dont like the "underground" type shit in my opinion is that it makes kids think. i dont think they like that. You put that shit to a hard beat like the ones on the radio's maybe...but i doubt it. All the mainstreams guys make ur body move n kids love it, specially beats n words r simple u can sing along too. i dunno i just think its variety. no ones ruined anything. just sucks publicity wise lotta rappers make that money to spit such dumb shit sometimes...u gotta admit..SOMETIMES the shit they say is like wow....wut in the world? but hey...its all about what ur into to.
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lol at "nothing for women", of course itīs particularly a male tendency to get into this type a shit, but like there are no female backpackers ::)
So you think the majority of females really listens to the raps and doesnt care about hooks and beats too much? C'mon nobody thinks that. To make a general statement you have to generalize, which is what I did.
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naw, all I say is I know some female backpackers
all generalizations are wrong ;)
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OK, I'm gonna catch a lot of shit but whatever. When i see acts like Atmosphere, Aesop Rock, etc... I cant help but think that hip hop is doomed before long. I know you're gonna wanna say, "no it's the shitty top 40 rappers that are destroying it", No. The thing about mainstream rap is that it is still a black mans game and it still contains the energy and rawness that made the genre so big in the first place. So many underground cats are sick of it so what do they do? make the polar opposite. Now this may attract a lot of white kids and shit who are tired of their SDE tape and want to be part of some intelligent movement, but what these "educated" albums are doing is just making it safe for white people to intervene and do whatever to the music in the name of "art". So many suburban kids have now found an outlet thru these self concious artisitic rappers because they can relate to it, so then they start their own projects, and soon there's a whole white rap scene. The problem with this is, since we live in a white world, its only a matter of time before this gets taken over as mainstream rap, and all the hardcore dudes we dont hear from again. The same thing happened with jazz, and its only a matter of time before it happens to hip hop.
Matter of time? Rap has been popular since the mid 80s and there have only been 2 successful white rappers (Paul Wall might be the 3rd) and 1 successful white rap/rock group. One album wonders like Vanilla Ice and House of Pain don't count. Hip Hop might change so there is more balance in the racial spectrum, but the popular music will always be the stuff that gets people hype, not the shit that gives people a college lecture. The top 40 proves that. Nothing but simple, in-your-face music. When it comes down to it, club goers just want something general to dance to. Clubs are a place where morals just fly out the window, so naturally, backpacker rap would never work there.
Backpackers themselves won't let their music become popular because once an artist hit the airwaves or clubs, they all of a sudden are deemed a sellout. There will never be a major market for backpacker rap. No A&R could ever sell it as the next big thing. EVER. Some of it is actually good music, but most of it is boring.
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I like backpack shit and enjoy bumpin Atmosphere. How are they killing hip-hop when they hardly get any exposure? lol Top 40 rappers are doing way more damage.
Backpack rap just brings another outlet in the game. I know personally, I don't wanna hear about gats, gangbangin and other agressive shit 24/7, because that ain't me. Sometimes, I like to bump some hip hop that's more emotional and different. Why people hate on backpack rap so much is beyond me since it gets no attention by the mainstream.
I welcome the alternative.....
co-sign.
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Persoanally, I think backpacker rap is an extremely important side to hip-hop. Jay Z/ pop-rap about selling bricks of coke are doing far more damage to rap I think.
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1 thing everybody needs 2 realize, Rap has gotta to tha point where it can never be destroyed, but only changed. Sure if all u do is watch TV and lissen 2 da radio of course all you'll hear iz pop shit. But if u look elsewhere (underground), you'll hear all dat gangsta shit or whatever u bump all day. why u think they came out wit' XM radio? U actually think tha rappers give a fuck about tha fanz if they don't buy their shit, thas why it kills me when i see people type "Go Buy this they NEED tha money" sure ain't nothin' wrong wit' supportin' them but when all tha dickrydin' occurs thas when tha line needs to be drawn. I still don't see why people hate so much on Bow Wow, bcuz if u were stuck in his position (young rapper/sexy girlfriend <--Fuck tha bullshit) would u give a fuck about a couple of thousand net nerd niggaz hatin' when u can walk to ur front door and wave any bitch down and get some ass and then just kick her out like that without her actin' all crazy afterwards? now i don't even fuck wit' Bow Wow and other artist like dat (even Snoop), but i respect em, cuz if i could be 16/17 or whatever and get my dick sucked all day countin' millions smokin' bud. U dam rite i'd do it.
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One thing about Backpack rappers, they are never consistent. They down Mainstream rap a lot, but the moment they get a chance to blow they go for it.
Xzibit did it. Ras Kass did it. Kweli did it. Common, Mos Def, etc. They all went the Mainstream route when it was possible. Which is why I say most Backpack rappers are just upset because they're stuck in the Underground where the majority of fans are guys. I remember Immortal Technique saying at a show in L.A. "Damn, there's a lot of girls here, can't say the same for New York." Even out here, Underground shows are cock fest's... These Backpack dudes want the groupies like the next man. That's why they'll go for the Mainstream appeal when they get the chance.
I still like the Jedi Mind Trick's, Immortal Technique's, Aceyalone's, etc. But not like I used to.
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So many suburban kids have now found an outlet thru these self concious artisitic rappers because they can relate to it, so then they start their own projects, and soon there's a whole white rap scene. The problem with this is, since we live in a white world, its only a matter of time before this gets taken over as mainstream rap, and all the hardcore dudes we dont hear from again. The same thing happened with jazz, and its only a matter of time before it happens to hip hop.
Like most already said; how can a genre of rap with such a small fanbase do anything? Most of the white back pack rappers are just pretentious whiners.
I predict that in the next couple years a new rock band will emerge that speaks to the suburban white kids like Nirvana and Pearl Jam did and you'll see that take off (I don't mean it'll sound like Grunge). Rap will go back to the streets for the most part and the mainstream will change. Being in a band will always be the cool thing for white teens to do. They just forgot about that the last 5 years or so. Hip hop won't die, much like Heavy Netal never died, but it will not be nearly as prominant.
I'm not sure where you get whites ruined jazz. I can barely think of 3 white jazz players, and when I think of Jazz I think Miles Davis. Unless you are reffering to the big band music, which isn't Jazz, it's pop/big band, Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, and they didn't ruin anything. They just sang songs very well.
You want to talk about whites taking over a music. Let's talk about Rock and Roll. It started as Rhythm and Blues in Memphis and with the Country influences of Memphis the two joined and developed the sound. A sound that didn't hit nation wide until Elvis, but what many still considered, rightfully so, a black music. Then the 60s hit, and Bob Dylan officially made rock and roll an art form. Something adopted and progressed by greats like The Beatles. Hard Rock came about in the late 60s with Zep and Sabbath, and Folk Rock continued to shine with CSNY and The Band. Greats like Bruce Springsteen helped the music mature with a sophistication that lacked many of the older records. Bob Seger, and a returning Bob Dylan also did this, as well as others. White people took Rock and Roll to extremely new heights lyrically and musically.
The point is white's don't ruin everything like you seemed to claim. (that doen't mean I think they'll take hip hop to a new level. LKike I said above, I think a new style of band will take over the suburban white scene in the next couple years.)
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Like most already said; how can a genre of rap with such a small fanbase do anything? Most of the white back pack rappers are just pretentious whiners.
Small? There's a HUGE market for Backpack rap. They're big on the tour tip, that's how they eat. You think 2Mex eats from his album sales? Hell no. He makes his money from shows. Small Fanbase is a HUGE understatement. LOL @ That.
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So many suburban kids have now found an outlet thru these self concious artisitic rappers because they can relate to it, so then they start their own projects, and soon there's a whole white rap scene. The problem with this is, since we live in a white world, its only a matter of time before this gets taken over as mainstream rap, and all the hardcore dudes we dont hear from again. The same thing happened with jazz, and its only a matter of time before it happens to hip hop.
Like most already said; how can a genre of rap with such a small fanbase do anything? Most of the white back pack rappers are just pretentious whiners.
I predict that in the next couple years a new rock band will emerge that speaks to the suburban white kids like Nirvana and Pearl Jam did and you'll see that take off (I don't mean it'll sound like Grunge). Rap will go back to the streets for the most part and the mainstream will change. Being in a band will always be the cool thing for white teens to do. They just forgot about that the last 5 years or so. Hip hop won't die, much like Heavy Netal never died, but it will not be nearly as prominant.
I'm not sure where you get whites ruined jazz. I can barely think of 3 white jazz players, and when I think of Jazz I think Miles Davis. Unless you are reffering to the big band music, which isn't Jazz, it's pop/big band, Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, and they didn't ruin anything. They just sang songs very well.
You want to talk about whites taking over a music. Let's talk about Rock and Roll. It started as Rhythm and Blues in Memphis and with the Country influences of Memphis the two joined and developed the sound. A sound that didn't hit nation wide until Elvis, but what many still considered, rightfully so, a black music. Then the 60s hit, and Bob Dylan officially made rock and roll an art form. Something adopted and progressed by greats like The Beatles. Hard Rock came about in the late 60s with Zep and Sabbath, and Folk Rock continued to shine with CSNY and The Band. Greats like Bruce Springsteen helped the music mature with a sophistication that lacked many of the older records. Bob Seger, and a returning Bob Dylan also did this, as well as others. White people took Rock and Roll to extremely new heights lyrically and musically.
The point is white's don't ruin everything like you seemed to claim. (that doen't mean I think they'll take hip hop to a new level. LKike I said above, I think a new style of band will take over the suburban white scene in the next couple years.)
good post exactly what i was giong to post actually
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and on the backpack rap thing
shit sux, but it's not ruining the genre, the genre is already at an all time low.....anything alternative to what's outthere now would actually increase rap/hip hops credibility IMO
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Like most already said; how can a genre of rap with such a small fanbase do anything? Most of the white back pack rappers are just pretentious whiners.
Small? There's a HUGE market for Backpack rap. They're big on the tour tip, that's how they eat. You think 2Mex eats from his album sales? Hell no. He makes his money from shows. Small Fanbase is a HUGE understatement. LOL @ That.
I mean small comparatively. Poison (rock band from the late 80s) tours all the time, and they make a living off it, but Hair Metal is still a small market in today's music scene.
You can laugh out loug all you want. It would explain why you aren't paying attention to the fact that back pack rapisn't changing the music scene anymore than Engelbert Humperdinck is, who makes a good living on the road, but compared to how much the Rolling Stones make, he has an extremely small audience.
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One thing about Backpack rappers, they are never consistent. They down Mainstream rap a lot, but the moment they get a chance to blow they go for it.
Xzibit did it. Ras Kass did it. Kweli did it. Common, Mos Def, etc. They all went the Mainstream route when it was possible.
When did Common or Mos Def go the "mainstream" route?
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^When Common let Kanye do his beats lol..
As for backpack rap.. I like alot of it but not those two shitty ones mentioned (Aesop, Atmostphere). I like Underground way more than gangsta shit/club/pop rap thats not in my taste anymore..
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I mean small comparatively. Poison (rock band from the late 80s) tours all the time, and they make a living off it, but Hair Metal is still a small market in today's music scene.
You can laugh out loug all you want. It would explain why you aren't paying attention to the fact that back pack rapisn't changing the music scene anymore than Engelbert Humperdinck is, who makes a good living on the road, but compared to how much the Rolling Stones make, he has an extremely small audience.
Back Pack isn't changing the music scene? Are you serious? Dogg... Go to a BackPack show. You'll see a bunch of kids who look like they belong at a Misfits concert. Now, if that isn't changing the music scene, then what is? They bring in a complete different audience. Serious kid, don't try to tell me about BackPack rap. Just this past Saturday I had an In-Store at my store here with Rifleman and Pterradacto... The kids who came in for it were far from your typical Hip Hop fans. BackPack rap has a HUGE influence in the scene... LOL @ Not paying attention.
Rastaman: Common went that route on Electric Circus and continued onto BE. Mos Def hit the mainstream level with "Oh No."
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I mean small comparatively. Poison (rock band from the late 80s) tours all the time, and they make a living off it, but Hair Metal is still a small market in today's music scene.
You can laugh out loug all you want. It would explain why you aren't paying attention to the fact that back pack rapisn't changing the music scene anymore than Engelbert Humperdinck is, who makes a good living on the road, but compared to how much the Rolling Stones make, he has an extremely small audience.
Back Pack isn't changing the music scene? Are you serious? Dogg... Go to a BackPack show. You'll see a bunch of kids who look like they belong at a Misfits concert. Now, if that isn't changing the music scene, then what is? They bring in a complete different audience. Serious kid, don't try to tell me about BackPack rap. Just this past Saturday I had an In-Store at my store here with Rifleman and Pterradacto... The kids who came in for it were far from your typical Hip Hop fans. BackPack rap has a HUGE influence in the scene... LOL @ Not paying attention.
Rastaman: Common went that route on Electric Circus and continued onto BE. Mos Def hit the mainstream level with "Oh No."
Then where are the record sales? You telling me all these kids you claim are into back packing and none are buying the music. You can judge the national music scene based on what happens in your store, and I'll stick to the tried and true approach of readng national numbers. When 2 or 3 backpack rappers go at least 5 platinum, then I'll say it's changing the scene. Selling out gymnasiums or small music halls doesn't mean shit. Let's see Rifleman sell out Shea Stadium, then we'll talk.
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To be real, all of you express valid points. But "Hip Hop" was incubated in the streets and birthed in the club. The biggest thing that pisses me off is the lack of respect some "Backpackers" have for different branches of the artform. The thing is Nelly is really no different than Nas,(True they are polar opposites lyrically) but they are both part of the body of hip hop, and they are both dependent upon each other if the culture is to survive. hammer, (hate em or love em) took rap music to new heights, but is often the subject of ridicule. I dont really comprehend that mode of thinking. Truth is everybody has there preferences, and options are good to have in order for this thing of ours to grow. And the direction that rap is heading now with people acting like idiots, I would def. say we need a new hammer to shake things up. lol
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OK, I'm gonna catch a lot of shit but whatever. When i see acts like Atmosphere, Aesop Rock, etc... I cant help but think that hip hop is doomed before long. I know you're gonna wanna say, "no it's the shitty top 40 rappers that are destroying it", No. The thing about mainstream rap is that it is still a black mans game and it still contains the energy and rawness that made the genre so big in the first place. So many underground cats are sick of it so what do they do? make the polar opposite. Now this may attract a lot of white kids and shit who are tired of their SDE tape and want to be part of some intelligent movement, but what these "educated" albums are doing is just making it safe for white people to intervene and do whatever to the music in the name of "art". So many suburban kids have now found an outlet thru these self concious artisitic rappers because they can relate to it, so then they start their own projects, and soon there's a whole white rap scene. The problem with this is, since we live in a white world, its only a matter of time before this gets taken over as mainstream rap, and all the hardcore dudes we dont hear from again. The same thing happened with jazz, and its only a matter of time before it happens to hip hop.
Interesting that this debate is being resurrected once again.
If you posted this somewhere or if this came up as a topic of conversation in the late 90's, let's say '98, I would have passionately argued your point to the death. Now I don't reallly feel that way.
Why?
Well look at hip hop as a whole. Did groups like Company Flow and Cannibal Ox have any influence on the game as a whole? What about Anticon? How have they affected hip hop? They have their little fringe fans that look like homeless orphans, but they have no affect on hip hop as a whole. Atmosphere has been around for more than a minute and they've dropped several albums, but they've hardly changed the game. Hip hop is the streets and will always be the streets. Hip hop has always been about partying and having fun. The backpackers that have hate for commercial club music and street music show a basic lack of understanding for the roots of hip hop as a culture. Also, most of these kids can't relate to the street message. As a result, there's really little that they can do to change the game.
I have had plenty of interaction with backpackers and there's no way these clowns represent the real of hip hop in any way shape of form. They are of no threat. The real threat are those in power who are not hip hop heads that dictate what you hear on radio or see on MTV/BET. That's the threat. The treat is the sheisty record label heads who won't put out real shit but put out safe music. I don't see where backpackers come into the equation.
I remember some of the arguments suggesting that Eminem was going to ruin rap and that he would be like Elvis, taking rap from black folks. That hasn't happened obviously and the arguments that were made at the time were obviously way off the mark.
Also, one thing to point out to all the folks that are paranoid about white people taking over hip hop. What happened with Blues, Jazz and Rock and Roll is that we gave that shit away. Whites did not take rock and roll from us, we stopped checking for it, plain and simple. Same thing with jazz and blues. I don't see us just giving this shit away, it's too entrenched at this point. I don't see it happening.
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I'd say rappers that make up fake beefs like 50 Cent and Game, and crack fiends like DMX are destroying hip hop.
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Hip hop has always been about partying and having fun. The backpackers that have hate for commercial club music and street music show a basic lack of understanding for the roots of hip hop as a culture. Also, most of these kids can't relate to the street message. As a result, there's really little that they can do to change the game.
Spokin like a true student of the game because most fools have no idea what hip hop is. It annoys me to No end when I see some peon trying to tell me whats valid and they were born in 90 lol. and never took the time to study the history. Biz markie was hip hop, KRS1, Force MD's, Joeski Love, Kane, Public enemy were hip hop..Paris, Salt & Pepper, basically that whole generation. most of these kids dont even know who pig martin is "here comes the judge" was the first rap record, even before the last poets. and i think dude was from the south. the founding father for the southern sound Mr. Mixx is from riverside, all those people are the body of hip hop. stringing a bunch of words together, "I take the tedious, mischievious, devious, blah, blah, blah", dont mean you dope
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Back Pack isn't changing the music scene? Are you serious? Dogg... Go to a BackPack show. You'll see a bunch of kids who look like they belong at a Misfits concert.
LMAO. So true.
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no, backpack is tight, there are a lot of skilled white rappers out there
I seriously don't get how you can hate aesop rock or atmosphere.
If you understood his post, you would see it was not about if you like that genre of hip hop. It's about what you think the genre will become.
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no, backpack is tight, there are a lot of skilled white rappers out there
I seriously don't get how you can hate aesop rock or atmosphere.
If you understood his post, you would see it was not about if you like that genre of hip hop. It's about what you think the genre will become.
If you understood the meaning of destroying, you would see it means that something bad is happening. Like, music becomes awful or so. I consider the influence of backpack rap as something good, so therefore it won't destroy shit in my mind and therefore my response has been on-topic and I also fully understood his post, moron.
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I remember some of the arguments suggesting that Eminem was going to ruin rap and that he would be like Elvis, taking rap from black folks. That hasn't happened obviously and the arguments that were made at the time were obviously way off the mark.
Also, one thing to point out to all the folks that are paranoid about white people taking over hip hop. What happened with Blues, Jazz and Rock and Roll is that we gave that shit away. Whites did not take rock and roll from us, we stopped checking for it, plain and simple. Same thing with jazz and blues. I don't see us just giving this shit away, it's too entrenched at this point. I don't see it happening.
1) I'm not sure if you were implying that Elvis ruined rock or took it from blacks, but just in case you were I'll respond to that. Elvis didn't ruin or steal anything. He was just a singer from Memphis that sang with the best of them. If he wasn't a good looking white guy that the girls loved and the guys wanted to imitate, would he have been as popular? Of course not, but the fact remains that his talent was there, and he was from Memphis so sticking with one kind of sound was nearly impossible. Did he steal songs? No more than any black artist of the day did. He had a hit with Hound Dog, which was a song sung by a black bues woman, but it was written by two jewish white kids. So who "stole" what on that one? The truth is no one really "stole" anything. It was Memphis and people black and white took from each other. It's called influence. Ike Turner was influenced by Hank Williams as much as he was by Robert Johnson. You can tell by listening to the music, but he didn't "steal" from either. Memphis was where the blues, hillbilly, country, folk, bluegrass and even a little jazz came together and became what was later known as Rock and Roll.
Another thing Elvis did, indirectly, was make it okay for black musicians and black music to go national and world wide on a massive scale. Where they treated as fairly? Maybe not, but a lot if not all of Chuck Berry's and Little Richard's success is owed to the fact Elvis became popular. Any black that refuses to see this is just being ignorant and racist, and no better than the racists that ran American music at that time. So what if Elvis is remembered as the icon of rock and roll? Michael Jordan is the most significant figure in Basketball, should white Canadians be offended. I know I'm not. Tiger Woods is currently the icon of Golf, and may one day surpass Jack Nicklaus for all I know. People need to realize that it can work both ways. I still get a shiver whenever I hear Fight The Power and that line comes on. The same shiver I feel when I hear some white supremist blabbering about zionist rule or black inferiority.
2) To say Blacks let the Blues go is ridiculous, and you'd get clapped in the head by BB King for saying that. The Blues had been part of black culture for well over 100 years before whites started getting into it. Hip hop has been around for what, 30 years? 20 years on a national level? If blacks can "let go" of the blues like you implied they did then they could easily let go of hip hop. The truth is the blues are still alive and well, and you'll see that as you get older, or when you just simply open your eyes. Rap may not be a fad, but it's nowhere near as strong as the blues historically, or universally. Hip hop has an age limit, meaning when you get to a certain age it looks and sounds stupid to be rapping. You hear rappers say all the time that they don't want to be doing this when they're 40. You never heard a bluesman say that. BB King is 80 and he's going strong. John Lee Hooker played the blues until his death, and he was way over 40. Just because the black youth of today in general currently have no respect or appreciation for the history of black music doesn't mean they never will. I'm willing to bet as a lot of blacks get older they'll appreciate the blues and while they may be too old to pick it up, they will have their kids in music lessons and the next generation will be more musically inclined and you'll see the Blues on a larger scale. Will it take over the music scene as the prominant genre? I doubt it, but it was never the prominant genre. The prominant genre changes every 5 to 10 years.
Many people consider hip hop a descendant of the Blues, and I'm sure you'll see both elements in future music. I of course consider hip hop as rock and roll, and rock and roll is with out question a descendant of the blues.
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Then where are the record sales? You telling me all these kids you claim are into back packing and none are buying the music. You can judge the national music scene based on what happens in your store, and I'll stick to the tried and true approach of readng national numbers. When 2 or 3 backpack rappers go at least 5 platinum, then I'll say it's changing the scene. Selling out gymnasiums or small music halls doesn't mean shit. Let's see Rifleman sell out Shea Stadium, then we'll talk.
They dont't sell because these kids bootlegg. Trust me, I know PLENTY of BackPackers out here. My question to you is, ever been to Project Blowed? No? Then don't ask me what I know. That is BackPack HEAVEN and you RARELY see a real CD in there. One person buys, the rest get and burn it. Or hell, the artist themselves slang burn copies. That's why you don't see big numbers. So yea...
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lets all smoke cigarettes and talk about Slugs new mohawk
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Then where are the record sales? You telling me all these kids you claim are into back packing and none are buying the music. You can judge the national music scene based on what happens in your store, and I'll stick to the tried and true approach of readng national numbers. When 2 or 3 backpack rappers go at least 5 platinum, then I'll say it's changing the scene. Selling out gymnasiums or small music halls doesn't mean shit. Let's see Rifleman sell out Shea Stadium, then we'll talk.
They dont't sell because these kids bootlegg. Trust me, I know PLENTY of BackPackers out here. My question to you is, ever been to Project Blowed? No? Then don't ask me what I know. That is BackPack HEAVEN and you RARELY see a real CD in there. One person buys, the rest get and burn it. Or hell, the artist themselves slang burn copies. That's why you don't see big numbers. So yea...
So you're telling me there are between 5 to 10 million back pack fans. Even if every fan bootlegs, where are the big concerts. (for the record, a big concert is 20,000 tickets sold. A very big concert is 40 of 50 thousand tickets sold). Let's see. Project Blowed's next show is at the Terrace Restaurant in Pasadena. I'm sure that's just sas big as MSG. Then they are back in LA with Aceyalone at the Normandie Casino. I guess the Staples Centre isn't available.
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IMO:
Nas would be seen as a "backpacker" if he didn't have sales.
Eminem was a "backpacker" on SSLP.
ps. Nelly is garbage and KRS sonned him.
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I remember some of the arguments suggesting that Eminem was going to ruin rap and that he would be like Elvis, taking rap from black folks. That hasn't happened obviously and the arguments that were made at the time were obviously way off the mark.
Also, one thing to point out to all the folks that are paranoid about white people taking over hip hop. What happened with Blues, Jazz and Rock and Roll is that we gave that shit away. Whites did not take rock and roll from us, we stopped checking for it, plain and simple. Same thing with jazz and blues. I don't see us just giving this shit away, it's too entrenched at this point. I don't see it happening.
Elvis didn't ruin or steal anything.
quote of the year.
Maybe not, but a lot if not all of Chuck Berry's and Little Richard's success is owed to the fact Elvis became popular.
Runner up for quote of the year.
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Hip hop has always been about partying and having fun. The backpackers that have hate for commercial club music and street music show a basic lack of understanding for the roots of hip hop as a culture. Also, most of these kids can't relate to the street message. As a result, there's really little that they can do to change the game.
Spokin like a true student of the game because most fools have no idea what hip hop is. It annoys me to No end when I see some peon trying to tell me whats valid and they were born in 90 lol. and never took the time to study the history. Biz markie was hip hop, KRS1, Force MD's, Joeski Love, Kane, Public enemy were hip hop..Paris, Salt & Pepper, basically that whole generation. most of these kids dont even know who pig martin is "here comes the judge" was the first rap record, even before the last poets. and i think dude was from the south. the founding father for the southern sound Mr. Mixx is from riverside, all those people are the body of hip hop. stringing a bunch of words together, "I take the tedious, mischievious, devious, blah, blah, blah", dont mean you dope
Real Talk ^
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What i want to know is when did backpacker rap come to mean white rap or some type of neo hippie movement. i remember back in 96 cats like Bootcamp was considered backpacker rap and it was hood shit and the term backpacker didnt have the stigma that it has today. Anyone care to explain that to me?
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So you're telling me there are between 5 to 10 million back pack fans. Even if every fan bootlegs, where are the big concerts. (for the record, a big concert is 20,000 tickets sold. A very big concert is 40 of 50 thousand tickets sold). Let's see. Project Blowed's next show is at the Terrace Restaurant in Pasadena. I'm sure that's just sas big as MSG. Then they are back in LA with Aceyalone at the Normandie Casino. I guess the Staples Centre isn't available.
Rock The Bells Chapter Twelve:
A Tribe Called Quest + Xzibit + Jurassic 5 + Cypress Hill + Jaylib + Little Brother + Supernatural + The CMA + Crown City Rockers + Self Scientific + Mr. Choc + DJ Revolution + DJ Mark Luv + DJ Icy Ice
Probably one of the biggest concerts in the L.A. this year. This was a BackPackers heaven. See what I mean guy? Do you even know what you're talking about? Have you ever been to Project Blowed? Do you remember Elements? Unity? I don't think you do. You're not up on this BackPack shit. Stick to Rock n Roll, you're good at that.
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I remember some of the arguments suggesting that Eminem was going to ruin rap and that he would be like Elvis, taking rap from black folks. That hasn't happened obviously and the arguments that were made at the time were obviously way off the mark.
Also, one thing to point out to all the folks that are paranoid about white people taking over hip hop. What happened with Blues, Jazz and Rock and Roll is that we gave that shit away. Whites did not take rock and roll from us, we stopped checking for it, plain and simple. Same thing with jazz and blues. I don't see us just giving this shit away, it's too entrenched at this point. I don't see it happening.
Elvis didn't ruin or steal anything.
quote of the year.
Maybe not, but a lot if not all of Chuck Berry's and Little Richard's success is owed to the fact Elvis became popular.
Runner up for quote of the year.
Sorry pal, the undisputed champion of quote of the year was a when you said fans have no place participating, with regards to basketball. Meaning if you are a fan of basketball you shouldn't play.
P.S. Little Richard himself said if it wasn't for Elvis's success, white people wouldn't have gotten into his records.
And SGV, who are we talking about here? Mainstream acts like Cypress Hill, Xzibit, and Tribe who have gone platinum, or underground guys that you claim don't sell records. If Infinite is booked on the same show as Em and it sells out MSG, should we say that he is changing the music scene, or should the credit go to Eminem. Show me a concert with out big names that sold out in a big venue.
I wil stick to rock and roll. Hip Hop is rock and roll.
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I remember some of the arguments suggesting that Eminem was going to ruin rap and that he would be like Elvis, taking rap from black folks. That hasn't happened obviously and the arguments that were made at the time were obviously way off the mark.
Also, one thing to point out to all the folks that are paranoid about white people taking over hip hop. What happened with Blues, Jazz and Rock and Roll is that we gave that shit away. Whites did not take rock and roll from us, we stopped checking for it, plain and simple. Same thing with jazz and blues. I don't see us just giving this shit away, it's too entrenched at this point. I don't see it happening.
Elvis didn't ruin or steal anything.
quote of the year.
Maybe not, but a lot if not all of Chuck Berry's and Little Richard's success is owed to the fact Elvis became popular.
Runner up for quote of the year.
Sorry pal, the undisputed champion of quote of the year was a when you said fans have no place participating, with regards to basketball. Meaning if you are a fan of basketball you shouldn't play.
P.S. Little Richard himself said if it wasn't for Elvis's success, white people wouldn't have gotten into his records.
You gotta put words in my mouth to make a case for yourself? Thats not what I said. Where did I ever say basketball fans should not play basketball? What kind of fuckin sense would that make? Only play basketball if you dont like it?
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And SGV, who are we talking about here? Mainstream acts like Cypress Hill, Xzibit, and Tribe who have gone platinum, or underground guys that you claim don't sell records. If Infinite is booked on the same show as Em and it sells out MSG, should we say that he is changing the music scene, or should the credit go to Eminem. Show me a concert with out big names that sold out in a big venue.
I wil stick to rock and roll. Hip Hop is rock and roll.
Uh... More than 3/4 of the crowd there were BackPackers, that's what Guerilla Union caters to. Same can be said for the Wu Tang Reunion they did, Sage Francis, E&A, Chali 2na, Dilated, Redman were openers. The Wake Up Show Concert with Rza, Self Science and all them, another BackPack show. You fail to realize that...
There's more Underground shows here than there is anything else. Immortal Technique sells out the El Rey. Jedi Mind sell out all their shows here. BackPack/Undergound has a HUGE following, you just don't know about it because you're not exposed to it.
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Rastaman: Common went that route on Electric Circus and continued onto BE. Mos Def hit the mainstream level with "Oh No."
How was Electric Circus mainstream? It was a really creative album, different from the norm, a bit "out there". In no way was it a mainstream album. The first single you could prehaps argue was mainstream, but it was the type of track Common has always had on his albums.
Rawkus wanted a hit, which was what "Oh No" was. Mos didn't comprimise himself for that song, and all of his own material can't be described as mainstream.
However, this would argument is stupid, because what you appear to be throwing into the "backpack" rap category is anybody without mainstream success, i,e, Dilated, Jaylib, etc, which means your pretty much throwing in 70% of hiphop into this one category. I don't see why we need categories anyway, all of these artists are showing their intrepretation of hiphop, their background will have influenced what this is, and to me thats cool. Hiphop isn't just a New York or US thing now, its worldwide, so its clear to see that different people are going to see hiphop in a different way, so to say that one faction of hiphop is ruining the rest is to me just ignorant.
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How was Electric Circus mainstream? It was a really creative album, different from the norm, a bit "out there". In no way was it a mainstream album. The first single you could prehaps argue was mainstream, but it was the type of track Common has always had on his albums.
Rawkus wanted a hit, which was what "Oh No" was. Mos didn't comprimise himself for that song, and all of his own material can't be described as mainstream.
However, this would argument is stupid, because what you appear to be throwing into the "backpack" rap category is anybody without mainstream success, i,e, Dilated, Jaylib, etc, which means your pretty much throwing in 70% of hiphop into this one category. I don't see why we need categories anyway, all of these artists are showing their intrepretation of hiphop, their background will have influenced what this is, and to me thats cool. Hiphop isn't just a New York or US thing now, its worldwide, so its clear to see that different people are going to see hiphop in a different way, so to say that one faction of hiphop is ruining the rest is to me just ignorant.
Bringing in the hottest producers of the moment was a ploy for Mainstream acceptance (he then found that with Be & Kanye.)
"Oh No" was FAR from your typical Mos Def track... It was not his element. It was made for Commercial success.
What you don't realize is that Dilated, Jaylib (Whom I never named) are all BackPackers. You think Dilated has a huge Mainstream following? If you do, you're wrong. Go to a Dilated show, it's the same people who seen at the Murs concert. Jaylib share the same fans as Handsome Boy Modeling School, etc. They're BackPackers kid...
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lets all smoke cigarettes and talk about Slugs new mohawk
I'd rather smoke cigarettes and talk about how one of my friends socked him.
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lets all smoke cigarettes and talk about Slugs new mohawk
I'd rather smoke cigarettes and talk about how one of my friends socked him.
he signed my "I live life like the captain of a sinkin ship"-shirt :D
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And SGV, who are we talking about here? Mainstream acts like Cypress Hill, Xzibit, and Tribe who have gone platinum, or underground guys that you claim don't sell records. If Infinite is booked on the same show as Em and it sells out MSG, should we say that he is changing the music scene, or should the credit go to Eminem. Show me a concert with out big names that sold out in a big venue.
I wil stick to rock and roll. Hip Hop is rock and roll.
Uh... More than 3/4 of the crowd there were BackPackers, that's what Guerilla Union caters to. Same can be said for the Wu Tang Reunion they did, Sage Francis, E&A, Chali 2na, Dilated, Redman were openers. The Wake Up Show Concert with Rza, Self Science and all them, another BackPack show. You fail to realize that...
There's more Underground shows here than there is anything else. Immortal Technique sells out the El Rey. Jedi Mind sell out all their shows here. BackPack/Undergound has a HUGE following, you just don't know about it because you're not exposed to it.
Ive gone to every Major Rock The Bells Event, It is A Backpackers Heaven, I swear everyone is on some "ONLY UNDERGROUND HIP HOP" mode and they do slang a whole grip of cds after the concert
Project Blowed is on some other shit though, everyone burns their stuff because they want to be bigger than everyone else there, like if the more people have their ep burned, then they are hot shit or something like that, its weird...but if the blowed gets packed every week like the times ive gone (ive only gone twice, its been a long time though)....then i dont see how shallow's argument has a chance
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lets all smoke cigarettes and talk about Slugs new mohawk
I'd rather smoke cigarettes and talk about how one of my friends socked him.
he signed my "I live life like the captain of a sinkin ship"-shirt :D
I was thinking about going to one of his shows in Minneapolis. From what I hear, Atmosphere rocks the crowd.
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lets all smoke cigarettes and talk about Slugs new mohawk
I'd rather smoke cigarettes and talk about how one of my friends socked him.
he signed my "I live life like the captain of a sinkin ship"-shirt :D
he depriciated the value of the shirt by 10 $ cause now theres writing on it.
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Ive gone to every Major Rock The Bells Event, It is A Backpackers Heaven, I swear everyone is on some "ONLY UNDERGROUND HIP HOP" mode and they do slang a whole grip of cds after the concert
Project Blowed is on some other shit though, everyone burns their stuff because they want to be bigger than everyone else there, like if the more people have their ep burned, then they are hot shit or something like that, its weird...but if the blowed gets packed every week like the times ive gone (ive only gone twice, its been a long time though)....then i dont see how shallow's argument has a chance
Word. Shallow ain't around the environment. He don't really know.
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How was Electric Circus mainstream? It was a really creative album, different from the norm, a bit "out there". In no way was it a mainstream album. The first single you could prehaps argue was mainstream, but it was the type of track Common has always had on his albums.
Rawkus wanted a hit, which was what "Oh No" was. Mos didn't comprimise himself for that song, and all of his own material can't be described as mainstream.
However, this would argument is stupid, because what you appear to be throwing into the "backpack" rap category is anybody without mainstream success, i,e, Dilated, Jaylib, etc, which means your pretty much throwing in 70% of hiphop into this one category. I don't see why we need categories anyway, all of these artists are showing their intrepretation of hiphop, their background will have influenced what this is, and to me thats cool. Hiphop isn't just a New York or US thing now, its worldwide, so its clear to see that different people are going to see hiphop in a different way, so to say that one faction of hiphop is ruining the rest is to me just ignorant.
Bringing in the hottest producers of the moment was a ploy for Mainstream acceptance (he then found that with Be & Kanye.)
"Oh No" was FAR from your typical Mos Def track... It was not his element. It was made for Commercial success.
What you don't realize is that Dilated, Jaylib (Whom I never named) are all BackPackers. You think Dilated has a huge Mainstream following? If you do, you're wrong. Go to a Dilated show, it's the same people who seen at the Murs concert. Jaylib share the same fans as Handsome Boy Modeling School, etc. They're BackPackers kid...
Neptunes only did two tracks on Electric Circus if that's who you're referring to. The Kanye thing was bound to happen after Kanye got Com on his album, and then Dilla was sick so couldn't do as much of Be as he was originally supposed to.
I didn't say Dilated had a huge mainstream following or anything, I just think its stupid labelling anything that isn't commercially successful "backpack", its like labelling all successful hiphop "club". Surely the sound of the music, rather than the people that follow it should dicate how its labelled, if you're that intent on creating labels?
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And SGV, who are we talking about here? Mainstream acts like Cypress Hill, Xzibit, and Tribe who have gone platinum, or underground guys that you claim don't sell records. If Infinite is booked on the same show as Em and it sells out MSG, should we say that he is changing the music scene, or should the credit go to Eminem. Show me a concert with out big names that sold out in a big venue.
I wil stick to rock and roll. Hip Hop is rock and roll.
Uh... More than 3/4 of the crowd there were BackPackers, that's what Guerilla Union caters to. Same can be said for the Wu Tang Reunion they did, Sage Francis, E&A, Chali 2na, Dilated, Redman were openers. The Wake Up Show Concert with Rza, Self Science and all them, another BackPack show. You fail to realize that...
There's more Underground shows here than there is anything else. Immortal Technique sells out the El Rey. Jedi Mind sell out all their shows here. BackPack/Undergound has a HUGE following, you just don't know about it because you're not exposed to it.
Sell out what though. When Bruce Springsteen goes to New York he can sell out Giant Stadium 10 nights in a row, and he has very little influence over the current. That's 500 fucking thousand tickes sold in one weekend to see one guy. No show openers on the bill. Just Bruce, and I'll admit he is not changing the music world right now. How many tickets do single performers sell in the scene your talking about? And how does it change the music world as a whole? Could it make an impact one day? Maybe, but that's not what I'm arguing. I'm saying it has no effect on the music scene as a whole. Meaning no labels are changing their direction because of it. When The Bee Gees hit big, everyone was looking for Disco Pop with a rock feel, so we got Dona Summer, and Michael Jackson. When Springsteen hit big people were looking for midle america rock and we got Mellencamp. When Nirvana hit it big, we got Pearl Jam and Soundgarden. When Back Street Boys hit it big we got N Synch, Briteny, Christina. That is what I consider changing the music world. Not having a cult following in couple parts of the country.
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Neptunes only did two tracks on Electric Circus if that's who you're referring to. The Kanye thing was bound to happen after Kanye got Com on his album, and then Dilla was sick so couldn't do as much of Be as he was originally supposed to.
I didn't say Dilated had a huge mainstream following or anything, I just think its stupid labelling anything that isn't commercially successful "backpack", its like labelling all successful hiphop "club". Surely the sound of the music, rather than the people that follow it should dicate how its labelled, if you're that intent on creating labels?
Getting the Neptunes on your album around then was a ploy for Commercial acceptance... Sorry to break it to you. Signing with Kanye and all that was his final try and it worked. Yes, I base the label on the music. Dilated is a BackPack rap group with money... Period.
Sell out what though. When Bruce Springsteen goes to New York he can sell out Giant Stadium 10 nights in a row, and he has very little influence over the current. That's 500 fucking thousand tickes sold in one weekend to see one guy. No show openers on the bill. Just Bruce, and I'll admit he is not changing the music world right now. How many tickets do single performers sell in the scene your talking about? And how does it change the music world as a whole? Could it make an impact one day? Maybe, but that's not what I'm arguing. I'm saying it has no effect on the music scene as a whole. Meaning no labels are changing their direction because of it. When The Bee Gees hit big, everyone was looking for Disco Pop with a rock feel, so we got Dona Summer, and Michael Jackson. When Springsteen hit big people were looking for midle america rock and we got Mellencamp. When Nirvana hit it big, we got Pearl Jam and Soundgarden. When Back Street Boys hit it big we got N Synch, Briteny, Christina. That is what I consider changing the music world. Not having a cult following in couple parts of the country.
The difference between The BeeGee's, Springstreen, Nirvana, BackStreet Boys.. They had the backing, 90% of BackPack rappers don't have enough support financially to make it big. When they do get it, they generally fail because they don't know how to cater to a new audience. But, you still have people like Aceyalone getting his songs played on big movies like "You Got Served." Immortal Technique and people of the sort on the Warped Tour. Hieroglyphics, Sage Francis, E&A, etc. etc. at HUGE shows like Cypress Hill Smokeout, Rock The Bells etc. If there wasn't a huge market for it, they wouldn't even dream of getting those chances. So, here they are, VERY little money in their pocket, no real contacts at the labels and they're doing this. THAT is influence.
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What do they influence is my question?
Nirvana got backed because the buzz was very strong. Much like NWA. Now NWA was influential. It showed in what came after them and what they did. If the rap scene you talk about was as big as you think it is then some one would jump on it in the corporate world. The reality is it probably isn't big at all outside of where you are.
Do you watch pro wrestling? There is a promotion called ROH and they have some of the best matches and wrestlers in the US. They sell out wherever they go, but he venues aren't all that big. Their wrestlers almost never get over in the WWE, because they don't get pushed. Why they don't get pushed is irrelevant. The point is among their fan base they are the greatest thing in the world and thousands of people are into it, but they don't a get a major TV deal because a few thousand isn't enough. One day they could be a force in the wrestling world, but now they aren't.
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What do they influence? Middle to Upper Class America. How? By making them feel as if they're apart of the Hip Hop culture. By allowing them the chance to have insight on the music. Changing their style of dress. Their speech. All that. They have just as much influence on these kids that your 50 Cent's have.
I've never met a 50 Cent fan who talks about "Real Hip Hop." But, I do meet plenty BackPack fans who talk about what's real, what's this, what's that. All these BackPack kids share a similar ideal, if it's Commercial it's not real. That's WORLDWIDE. THAT'S INFLUENCE.
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its always sad when they hate. like they wouldnt grab the chance if they had it.
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What do they influence? Middle to Upper Class America. How? By making them feel as if they're apart of the Hip Hop culture. By allowing them the chance to have insight on the music. Changing their style of dress. Their speech. All that. They have just as much influence on these kids that your 50 Cent's have.
I've never met a 50 Cent fan who talks about "Real Hip Hop." But, I do meet plenty BackPack fans who talk about what's real, what's this, what's that. All these BackPack kids share a similar ideal, if it's Commercial it's not real. That's WORLDWIDE. THAT'S INFLUENCE.
The point is how much of middle to upper class America. I could use the Wicka as away to say it's having an influence over religion but as long as it's among the smallest religions it's not a factor. Backpack rap isn't changing music. Making a few thousand ex-Marilyn Manson fans (there were millions of Manson fans at one point) into supposed hip hop experts isn't changing music. How is back pack rap influencing the music scene as a whole?
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The point is how much of middle to upper class America. I could use the Wicka as away to say it's having an influence over religion but as long as it's among the smallest religions it's not a factor. Backpack rap isn't changing music. Making a few thousand ex-Marilyn Manson fans (there were millions of Manson fans at one point) into supposed hip hop experts isn't changing music. How is back pack rap influencing the music scene as a whole?
Emo Rap. The ___ Bars songs. The Freestyle facination. I can go on.
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The point is how much of middle to upper class America. I could use the Wicka as away to say it's having an influence over religion but as long as it's among the smallest religions it's not a factor. Backpack rap isn't changing music. Making a few thousand ex-Marilyn Manson fans (there were millions of Manson fans at one point) into supposed hip hop experts isn't changing music. How is back pack rap influencing the music scene as a whole?
Emo Rap. The ___ Bars songs. The Freestyle facination. I can go on.
Do you think back pack rap can takeover as the music of choice among American teenagers? Do you think it will begin to sell at least 10 percent of all music sales? Do you think it can sell at least 10 precent of all concert tickets in major arenas? Do you think it will change the video playlists on MTV?
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Do you think back pack rap can takeover as the music of choice among American teenagers? Do you think it will begin to sell at least 10 percent of all music sales? Do you think it can sell at least 10 precent of all concert tickets in major arenas? Do you think it will change the video playlists on MTV?
Of course. The major artists in the Underground/BackPack arena are mainly white. Atmosphere, El-P, E&A, Sage Francis, Aesop Rock etc. Though they're not much different from any other non-white emcee, they stand out due to their race and are very accessible to the Middle and Upper Classes aka the people who buy records. If they got a 50 Cent push, they'd take over. It's common sense.
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Do you think back pack rap can takeover as the music of choice among American teenagers? Do you think it will begin to sell at least 10 percent of all music sales? Do you think it can sell at least 10 precent of all concert tickets in major arenas? Do you think it will change the video playlists on MTV?
Of course. The major artists in the Underground/BackPack arena are mainly white. Atmosphere, El-P, E&A, Sage Francis, Aesop Rock etc. Though they're not much different from any other non-white emcee, they stand out due to their race and are very accessible to the Middle and Upper Classes aka the people who buy records. If they got a 50 Cent push, they'd take over. It's common sense.
But do they make tracks like and rap about stuff like and the way 50 or even Kanye do?
Counter cultre only really works in mainstream America because of the sound. Smells Like Teens Spirit may have spoken to a lot of white kids personally but if it wasn't one of the catchiest tunes of the decade then it wouldn't have sold so much. Look at the protest singers of the mid to late 60s. They never sold all that much. Phil Ohcs had some great tunes and came from a very popular scene amongst certain types of kids but when it came to mainstream America it didn't fly because he didn't sound like The Beatles and people don't want to hear about in your face complaining about society in any way. Even Punk which wasa way bigger indy scene than back pack rap didn't break the mainstream until songs stopped being so angry and more fun, and more pop and less punk.
I guess only time will tell if back pack rap takes over the main stream, but I just don't see it happening. Bubba Sparxx had a pretty decent push but he never sold all that much, and his much better second album didn't do well at all. The majority of white American teen music buyers don't want to think too much they just want music that sounds good, and when music like that gets shoved down their throats it pays off. I don't see that happening with a group like Non-Phixion doing that. I just don't think anything htey do is catchy enough or ever will be. It's not like you can throw any white guy doing black music to the mainstream and have the people eat it up. If that were the case then Bubba, Evidence, and Whitey Ford would all be mega stars. For every 1 Elvis there is 1000 Billy Lee Rileys (Billy Lee Riley wasa great talent but couldn't break the mainstream).
Even the backpack scene here in Toronto with Sweat Shop Union and Swollen Members don't exactly break any records when it comes to sales or concerts, and Canadian usually overhype their own.
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Do you think back pack rap can takeover as the music of choice among American teenagers? Do you think it will begin to sell at least 10 percent of all music sales? Do you think it can sell at least 10 precent of all concert tickets in major arenas? Do you think it will change the video playlists on MTV?
its not that ridiculous to say there is a possibility. in 1995 I would have said that the shit thats so popular today would never have had a chance.
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Do you think back pack rap can takeover as the music of choice among American teenagers? Do you think it will begin to sell at least 10 percent of all music sales? Do you think it can sell at least 10 precent of all concert tickets in major arenas? Do you think it will change the video playlists on MTV?
its not that ridiculous to say there is a possibility. in 1995 I would have said that the shit thats so popular today would never have had a chance.
I wasn't ttrying to imply it was ridiculous. I was just asking the question too know to what extent SGV thinks backrack rap will succeed. I disagree with him, but I never said there was no way it could happen.
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But do they make tracks like and rap about stuff like and the way 50 or even Kanye do?
Counter cultre only really works in mainstream America because of the sound. Smells Like Teens Spirit may have spoken to a lot of white kids personally but if it wasn't one of the catchiest tunes of the decade then it wouldn't have sold so much. Look at the protest singers of the mid to late 60s. They never sold all that much. Phil Ohcs had some great tunes and came from a very popular scene amongst certain types of kids but when it came to mainstream America it didn't fly because he didn't sound like The Beatles and people don't want to hear about in your face complaining about society in any way. Even Punk which wasa way bigger indy scene than back pack rap didn't break the mainstream until songs stopped being so angry and more fun, and more pop and less punk.
I guess only time will tell if back pack rap takes over the main stream, but I just don't see it happening. Bubba Sparxx had a pretty decent push but he never sold all that much, and his much better second album didn't do well at all. The majority of white American teen music buyers don't want to think too much they just want music that sounds good, and when music like that gets shoved down their throats it pays off. I don't see that happening with a group like Non-Phixion doing that. I just don't think anything htey do is catchy enough or ever will be. It's not like you can throw any white guy doing black music to the mainstream and have the people eat it up. If that were the case then Bubba, Evidence, and Whitey Ford would all be mega stars. For every 1 Elvis there is 1000 Billy Lee Rileys (Billy Lee Riley wasa great talent but couldn't break the mainstream).
Even the backpack scene here in Toronto with Sweat Shop Union and Swollen Members don't exactly break any records when it comes to sales or concerts, and Canadian usually overhype their own.
BackPack rap had a run towards the Mainstream when Eminem got put on. Eminem got his deal, then Rawkus got a deal. Eminem was blowing up, you started seeing Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Pharoahe Monch etc. more often. Then they did the Hip Hop For Respect joint that got a lot of play and was straight up BackPack. This was about 98-99... At the height of the South's popularity.
So, it's VERY possible to have an Atmosphere, Eyedea, Sage Francis, etc. explode into the Mainstream. But, you don't understand this: Given the SAME push as 50 or Kanye, virtually anyone can blow up. Atmosphere and Eyedea already have a strong female following, given the right push, they'd be superstars right now. Bubba Sparxxx never got the push because he wasn't relateable to females.
Swollen Members had a good following down here, but from what I understand, they do bad business. That doesn't translate well into the industry especially when they're already outsiders. That's why they never blew up. But, given the right chance, that song with Nelly Furtado would've took off with mainstream america.
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But do they make tracks like and rap about stuff like and the way 50 or even Kanye do?
Counter cultre only really works in mainstream America because of the sound. Smells Like Teens Spirit may have spoken to a lot of white kids personally but if it wasn't one of the catchiest tunes of the decade then it wouldn't have sold so much. Look at the protest singers of the mid to late 60s. They never sold all that much. Phil Ohcs had some great tunes and came from a very popular scene amongst certain types of kids but when it came to mainstream America it didn't fly because he didn't sound like The Beatles and people don't want to hear about in your face complaining about society in any way. Even Punk which wasa way bigger indy scene than back pack rap didn't break the mainstream until songs stopped being so angry and more fun, and more pop and less punk.
I guess only time will tell if back pack rap takes over the main stream, but I just don't see it happening. Bubba Sparxx had a pretty decent push but he never sold all that much, and his much better second album didn't do well at all. The majority of white American teen music buyers don't want to think too much they just want music that sounds good, and when music like that gets shoved down their throats it pays off. I don't see that happening with a group like Non-Phixion doing that. I just don't think anything htey do is catchy enough or ever will be. It's not like you can throw any white guy doing black music to the mainstream and have the people eat it up. If that were the case then Bubba, Evidence, and Whitey Ford would all be mega stars. For every 1 Elvis there is 1000 Billy Lee Rileys (Billy Lee Riley wasa great talent but couldn't break the mainstream).
Even the backpack scene here in Toronto with Sweat Shop Union and Swollen Members don't exactly break any records when it comes to sales or concerts, and Canadian usually overhype their own.
BackPack rap had a run towards the Mainstream when Eminem got put on. Eminem got his deal, then Rawkus got a deal. Eminem was blowing up, you started seeing Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Pharoahe Monch etc. more often. Then they did the Hip Hop For Respect joint that got a lot of play and was straight up BackPack. This was about 98-99... At the height of the South's popularity.
So, it's VERY possible to have an Atmosphere, Eyedea, Sage Francis, etc. explode into the Mainstream. But, you don't understand this: Given the SAME push as 50 or Kanye, virtually anyone can blow up. Atmosphere and Eyedea already have a strong female following, given the right push, they'd be superstars right now. Bubba Sparxxx never got the push because he wasn't relateable to females.
Swollen Members had a good following down here, but from what I understand, they do bad business. That doesn't translate well into the industry especially when they're already outsiders. That's why they never blew up. But, given the right chance, that song with Nelly Furtado would've took off with mainstream america.
I see a huge difference in Eminem songs and Atmosphere songs. Eminem got over because he was funny. He stirred up a lot of shit with a lot of easy targets that a lot of people wanted to see hit (N Synch etc), and most importantly he had some very catchy tunes. Can you give me examples of songs that would blow up with the right promotion?
SM's Breathe with Nelly Furtado was pushed heavily up here but it never took off the way you'd think it would. It really isn't that easy to push someone. if it was then you'd see a lot more artists selling like 50 and Kanye. Look at D12. They got pushed as hard as anyone and couldn't sell a quater of what Em sold solo.
Oh and by the way, Turf Hitta says Bubba isn't official hip hop. You agree with that? Just wondering.
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I see a huge difference in Eminem songs and Atmosphere songs. Eminem got over because he was funny. He stirred up a lot of shit with a lot of easy targets that a lot of people wanted to see hit (N Synch etc), and most importantly he had some very catchy tunes. Can you give me examples of songs that would blow up with the right promotion?
SM's Breathe with Nelly Furtado was pushed heavily up here but it never took off the way you'd think it would. It really isn't that easy to push someone. if it was then you'd see a lot more artists selling like 50 and Kanye. Look at D12. They got pushed as hard as anyone and couldn't sell a quater of what Em sold solo.
Oh and by the way, Turf Hitta says Bubba isn't official hip hop. You agree with that? Just wondering.
Eminem's funny, Atmopshere is sensitive. Two qualities females like in music. Two different ends of the spectrum, but ultimately, coincide with one another. "Trying To Find A Balance" was very catchy, but didn't get a HUGE push like say "My Name Is" did. "Always Coming Back Home To You" had much potential, as did "One Of A Kind." These songs, pushed right, would have Atmosphere in a popular position.
As for Swollen Members, I can't speak for Canada, but I can say that the song had potential for Mainstream America. Nelly Furtado was still hot and Canadian's in Hip Hop were just starting to emerge. It had a lot of potenial, but the backing wasn't there. Without the push from Dr. Dre, Eminem would've been just another name in this discussion on the side of the BackPackers.
It's very easy to push artists... 50 is a perfect example. Dude had no buzz really. But get him on MTV with Dr. Dre AND Eminem promoting him? He's unstopable. Game had Dre AND 50 and look at him now. Again, before any of this he was a nobody. D-12's music is still regional. They make Detroit Hip Hop and that's it. Regardless of having Eminem there, their music just can't catch on. But, you see their push had them on MTV, BET, etc. Their push still kept their name recognizeable.
And, I don't agree. Bubba Sparxxx IS Hip Hop.
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I like backpack and mainstream hip hop. I'm one of those people that listens to the music if I like the way it sounds. Just because it's mainstream doesn't mean it's bad, and just because it's backpack doesn't mean it's good. I've been listening to more backpack and old school hip hop lately, but that's just because there's not a lot that gets my attention in the mainstream.
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My 2 cents...
Basically all your favorite backpack rappers are dying to one day be famous. They put out albums hoping one reaches the mainstream and people feel their shit. WHY? BECAUSE THEY ARE ARTIST. No artist wants to put out work so no one but true fans can hear it. They want to make news fans, and they want to be heard. Plus the money is good.
Second, who ever says mainstream is killing Hip-Hop doesn't remember than Run DMC, Big Daddy Kane and many other Hip-Hop stars used to wear the bling, the gold ropes, and all that. Hip-Hop has always been about making it big. The culture was never the music, it was driven by it. The culture was about boosting. The DJ's use to loop old R&B breaks, well dancers use to dance, hence break dancing. It was all about the dancable party music. Rappers use to boost about the DJ, and then battle each other. If you think about it, 50 Cent is more Hip-Hop dissing folks and doing party raps than Slug is doing is emotional rap. It wasn't until Melle Mel, Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five changed the game forever by releasing more, what we call now, conscience rap. Before that, Hip-Hop was endanger of being a fad, but Melle Mel and The Furious Five made Hip-Hop, which was already 10 years old, a respected art form. But on the real, before The Message, you had songs that were about parties and battles. Exactly like 50 Cent. Now don't get me wrong, I don't exactly like 50, though I can't say shit 'cause in late 1993- early 1994 I played Doggystyle everyday, and if you listen to Doggystyle again, it sounds a lot like Get Rich or Die Trying. So learn your history, check your what you use to listen to, why you did, then come with an argument.
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no, backpack is tight, there are a lot of skilled white rappers out there
I seriously don't get how you can hate aesop rock or atmosphere.
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to say hiphop is just for blacks is rascist plain and simple, if everyone thought like that we may aswell take it back to the days of segregation but now we look to integration.....
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to say hiphop is just for blacks is rascist plain and simple, if everyone thought like that we may aswell take it back to the days of segregation but now we look to integration.....
hip hop is for peckerwoods and mexicans.