West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: J @ M @ L on November 17, 2005, 12:21:26 AM
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An Israeli army officer who fired the entire magazine of his automatic rifle into a 13-year-old Palestinian girl and then said he would have done the same even if she had been three years old was acquitted on all charges by a military court yesterday.
The soldier, who has only been identified as "Captain R", was charged with relatively minor offences for the killing of Iman al-Hams who was shot 17 times as she ventured near an Israeli army post near Rafah refugee camp in Gaza a year ago.
The manner of Iman's killing, and the revelation of a tape recording in which the captain is warned that she was just a child who was "scared to death", made the shooting one of the most controversial since the Palestinian intifada erupted five years ago even though hundreds of other children have also died.
After the verdict, Iman's father, Samir al-Hams, said the army never intended to hold the soldier accountable.
"They did not charge him with Iman's murder, only with small offences, and now they say he is innocent of those even though he shot my daughter so many times," he said. "This was the cold-blooded murder of a girl. The soldier murdered her once and the court has murdered her again. What is the message? They are telling their soldiers to kill Palestinian children."
The military court cleared the soldier of illegal use of his weapon, conduct unbecoming an officer and perverting the course of justice by asking soldiers under his command to alter their accounts of the incident.
Capt R's lawyers argued that the "confirmation of the kill" after a suspect is shot was a standard Israeli military practice to eliminate terrorist threats.
Following the verdict, Capt R burst into tears, turned to the public benches and said: "I told you I was innocent."
The army's official account said that Iman was shot for crossing into a security zone carrying her schoolbag which soldiers feared might contain a bomb. It is still not known why the girl ventured into the area but witnesses described her as at least 100 yards from the military post which was in any case well protected.
A recording of radio exchanges between Capt R and his troops obtained by Israeli television revealed that from the beginning soldiers identified Iman as a child.
In the recording, a soldier in a watchtower radioed a colleague in the army post's operations room and describes Iman as "a little girl" who was "scared to death". After soldiers first opened fire, she dropped her schoolbag which was then hit by several bullets establishing that it did not contain explosive. At that point she was no longer carrying the bag and, the tape revealed, was heading away from the army post when she was shot.
Although the military speculated that Iman might have been trying to "lure" the soldiers out of their base so they could be attacked by accomplices, Capt R made the decision to lead some of his troops into the open. Shortly afterwards he can be heard on the recording saying that he has shot the girl and, believing her dead, then "confirmed the kill".
"I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over," he said.
Palestinian witnesses said they saw the captain shoot Iman twice in the head, walk away, turn back and fire a stream of bullets into her body.
On the tape, Capt R then "clarifies" to the soldiers under his command why he killed Iman: "This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the [security] zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed."
At no point did the Israeli troops come under attack.
The prosecution case was damaged when a soldier who initially said he had seen Capt R point his weapon at the girl's body and open fire later told the court he had fabricated the story.
Capt R claimed that he had not fired the shots at the girl but near her. However, Dr Mohammed al-Hams, who inspected the child's body at Rafah hospital, counted numerous wounds. "She has at least 17 bullets in several parts of the body, all along the chest, hands, arms, legs," he told the Guardian shortly afterwards. "The bullets were large and shot from a close distance. The most serious injuries were to her head. She had three bullets in the head. One bullet was shot from the right side of the face beside the ear. It had a big impact on the whole face."
The army's initial investigation concluded that the captain had "not acted unethically". But after some of the soldiers under his command went to the Israeli press to give a different version, the military police launched a separate investigation after which he was charged.
Capt R claimed that the soldiers under his command were out to get him because they are Jewish and he is Druze.
The transcript
The following is a recording of a three-way conversation that took place between a soldier in a watchtower, an army operations room and Capt R, who shot the girl
From the watchtower "It's a little girl. She's running defensively eastward." "Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?" "A girl about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death." "I think that one of the positions took her out." "I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over."
From the operations room "Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?"
Watchtower "A girl about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death."
A few minutes later, Iman is shot from one of the army posts
Watchtower "I think that one of the positions took her out."
Captain R "I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over."
Capt R then "clarifies" why he killed Iman
"This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed. Over
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1643573,00.html
Check the quote in my sig, and realize why I TO DA GEEZY is a tool.
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17 bullets is just a liiiiiiiiittle much. That's just sadistic. SOmeone peel his cap.
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why do muslims hate humanity!?!?!?
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israel never holds their soldiers accountable for their atrocities, which only points to one reason they support the killings of innocent defenceless people
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The whole justice and human rights fuck in israel is a plain farce. Who the fuck is buying that shit.
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why do muslims hate humanity!?!?!?
good God man. Its one thing to be sarcastic and sly within the context of a stated position, its another thing to have your whole steez be making stupid comments.
get some clarity in ya life
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why do muslims hate humanity!?!?!?
good God man. Its one thing to be sarcastic and sly within the context of a stated position, its another thing to have your whole steez be making stupid comments.
get some clarity in ya life
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simply what i meant by that is, natives of that region are bloodthirsty babykillers. Making a stretch of property off limits and punishable by death when all it contains is probably sand and scorpions is disgusting and embarassing to humanity, they need clarity.
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You damm fruit bag, It's an Israeli captain = Not Muslim.
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LMAOL Read the thread 1st Banana ASS
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horrible
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why do muslims hate humanity!?!?!?
good God man. Its one thing to be sarcastic and sly within the context of a stated position, its another thing to have your whole steez be making stupid comments.
get some clarity in ya life
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i hate jews with every fibres of my body.
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i hate jews with every fibres of my body.
I bet you love their movies.
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i hate jews with every fibres of my body.
^^
Then Jamal's goal has been accomplished.
p.s What a curious affect it had on you being that this captain wasn't even Jewish, but Druze.
And it is also interesting why Jamal doesn't post a new thread every time an Israeli kid is murdered, why doesn't he post information concerning the autopsies (that is if the body wasn't ripped to pieces) or why doesn't he delve into such freelance investigations with far reaching conclusions as for the Palestinian Autonomy and its "enforcement of human rights" on the way to "preventing such repercussions in the future" in cases when Israeli civilians are murdered by a terrorist, that is despite him claiming to condemn terrorism against Israeli civilians.
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whether they are terrorists or justified resistance you like to compare the israelil army to terrorists all the time so you must think that your governemental organisation acts in terrorist ways so why do you always come out to defend them??
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whether they are terrorists or justified resistance you like to compare the israelil army to terrorists all the time so you must think that your governemental organisation acts in terrorist ways so why do you always come out to defend them??
I'm not going into definitions of "terrorism" right now I'm talking about Jamal as well as other propaganda victims such as yourself who often hypocritically claim to condemn terrorism against Israeli civilians only for 'political correctness' without actually taking the time of day to fully acknowlediging the Palestnian leadership's interest Palestinian terrorism promotes and without realizing it is the ONLY obstacle on the way to peace and mutual trust.
p.s:Question: When in God's name did I compare the Israeli Defence Force to a terrorist group?
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every time the israeli army is brought u talk about what the terrorists do like their on the same level politically
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just so u guys know, in America, the Israeli's and the Palestinians are viewed on the same level, they're both fucking nuts.
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every time the israeli army is brought u talk about what the terrorists do like their on the same level politically
Doesn't mean they're on the same level. To understand the coercion inflicted on Israel's military by the Palestinian leadership, to conduct foiling operations within Palestinian jurisdiction, instead of uprooting Palestinian terrorism within the autonomy on its own, is what you need to acknowledge.
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I To Da Geezy...
1. Instead of addressing the topic being discussed, you decided to bring some more bullshit and ignore the main point here... an Israeli murderer (just another member of the IDF) killed an innocent young girl in a brutal way, and was acquitted after he admitted that he would have done the same thing to a 3 year old. Fucking sick... but I guess to the Israeli government this is normal and obviously acceptable.
2. If you want me to make a post everytime an Israeli child dies, then I'd have to make 5 times as many posts for every Palestinian child that dies.
3. You admitted yourself that terrorism isn't called terrorism when it's state sponsored. My response to that is that you're right because we can just look at Israel and see that your statement holds true.
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i hate jews with every fibres of my body.
^^
Then Jamal's goal has been accomplished.
p.s What a curious affect it had on you being that this captain wasn't even Jewish, but Druze.
And it is also interesting why Jamal doesn't post a new thread every time an Israeli kid is murdered, why doesn't he post information concerning the autopsies (that is if the body wasn't ripped to pieces) or why doesn't he delve into such freelance investigations with far reaching conclusions as for the Palestinian Autonomy and its "enforcement of human rights" on the way to "preventing such repercussions in the future" in cases when Israeli civilians are murdered by a terrorist, that is despite him claiming to condemn terrorism against Israeli civilians.
You REFUSE to see whom I have addressed my post to, and on what ground, you didn't seem to mind or respond on your article's "sudden" transformation into a catalyst of anti-semitism(at least for someone who claims to oppose injustice I would expect you to), what proves it was your intension to begin with to foment against Israel by any cost (How would such an article reinforce a stereotype of a racist? well let's see now...nice work fathoming the way Palestinian propaganda works mate )
QUOTE:
I feel like I'm talking to some retarded fruitcake with the -Stein suffix in his last name
POINT has been PROVEN.
p.s Only that if you do post everytime a Palesetinian or an Israeli child are killed you have to state the cause of death and the circumstances (that would of course include death of Palestinian children due Palestinian actions like coercion of hundreds of 8 year old children to take part in militant demonstrations). Since the Palestinian P.R likes to play with death rate statistics so much that when people who die in non-related armed street tussles (say within the about 60% unemployed population of Gaza strip) are all added up and included under the title of "Palestinians who died due to the Zionist occupation in the last..."
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Do you have anything to say about the article or Israel's terrorist actions or not? I don't care about your whining and the bullshit tangents you go off on. Palestinian propaganda... yeah, anything that exposes Israel's atrocities is propaganda and anti-Semitism. Go whine to somebody else. If the truth hurts you so bad, don't read it (which you obviously don't.. unless you happen to stumble across it on WCC in 1 of my posts) :)
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Do you have anything to say about the article or Israel's terrorist actions or not? I don't care about your whining and the bullshit tangents you go off on. Palestinian propaganda... yeah, anything that exposes Israel's atrocities is propaganda and anti-Semitism. Go whine to somebody else. If the truth hurts you so bad, don't read it (which you obviously don't.. unless you happen to stumble across it on WCC in 1 of my posts) :)
When a discussion is formed it usually leads somewhere, When people respond to a topic it is also customary to reply to peoples' statements. I've expressed my thoughts (in which for some reason you've never been as interested the way you are right now) on one of the responses to your article within this thread that was in no way related to the topic and mainly showcased blatant racial stereotyping to which you did not seem to object (being such an on-topic guy) at all. In the meanwhile, you're reprimanding me for going off topic when I simply pointed out a live example to how easy it would be to go off-topic, the wrong way, when one sided views are being propagated.
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So do you agree with the actions of the terrorist who shot the little girl, or do you think the terrorist state of Israel was wrong in acquitting this ruthless murderer? :)
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So do you agree with the actions of the terrorist who shot the little girl, or do you think the terrorist state of Israel was wrong in acquitting this ruthless murderer? :)
YES OR NO?
Before we settle this I want to tell you a story:
There's this trial, the D.A calls the defendant to the witness stand and asks him "did you or did you not steal the sum of money at hand?-yes or no"
The judge is pressuring him to answer so the defendat sayes "Your honor I can't answer with a yes or a no, not every question can be answered this way"
So the judge sayes "if you ask me a question which I can't answer with a yes or a no I'll let you refrain from answering" so the defendant takes his chance :" So did you stop taking bribe already?"
Your question can't be answered with a yes or a no becaue each answer would annex an unintended context(propaganda technique). Good thing you're not desperate, resorting to poorly executed rhetorical questions.
My opinion(nothing new really):
Death of innocent people(especially children) is deplorable.However, JUST LIKE YOU, I do not know the exact circumstances which lead to the death of this girl down to its details. Even less grounded are claims as for perverting the course of justice by asking soldiers under his command to alter their accounts of the incident.
how can something like this be claimed based on an assumption? If ,in the American Justice system, a key witness altered his testimony, do you think that it would still be within the prosecution's capacity to avoid vindication?
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The army's official account said that Iman was shot for crossing into a security zone carrying her schoolbag which soldiers feared might contain a bomb.
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The army's official account said that Iman was shot for crossing into a security zone carrying her schoolbag which soldiers feared might contain a bomb.
After soldiers first opened fire, she dropped her schoolbag which was then hit by several bullets establishing that it did not contain explosive. At that point she was no longer carrying the bag and, the tape revealed, was heading away from the army post when she was shot.
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LMAO@defending trigger happy killaz just cause they Jewish. This ain't soccer games where you side with your team for the hell of it even if you're wrong.
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what do u expect? i dont understand dont u see who the posters are that support this shit? Theyre fuckin idiots anyways. I dont think I ve ever read any thing from Mauzip that didnt have anything to do with TQ and/or homosexualized topics. So what kind of posts u think this lame is gonna type about the Israeli Palestinian conflict?
And then we have the IDF luitenent himself. wouldnt be surprised if i to the geezy was a war criminal. how many palestinian homes have u destroyed i to the geezy?
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what do u expect? i dont understand dont u see who the posters are that support this shit? Theyre fuckin idiots anyways. I dont think I ve ever read any thing from Mauzip that didnt have anything to do with TQ and/or homosexualized topics. So what kind of posts u think this lame is gonna type about the Israeli Palestinian conflict?
And then we have the IDF luitenent himself. wouldnt be surprised if i to the geezy was a war criminal. how many palestinian homes have u destroyed i to the geezy?
None, and I've never killed anyone as well( not in Nablus neither in Ramallah, nor in Hebron), although I did help supplying a few of them with an option to work within Israel's borders, since Mr. Arafat was for some reason very interested in stimulating unemployment within the Autonomy and that is despite the enormous amounts of support money he received during (and subsequently to) Oslo.
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The army's official account said that Iman was shot for crossing into a security zone carrying her schoolbag which soldiers feared might contain a bomb.
Yeah, take this as an example of military coercion, I mean, we've had so much precedent to cases like this^^ . It would never justefy a killing of an innocent child in my book(unlike those books according to which children in the Palestinian Autonomy are taught in school ::)) but it would damn well explain it and would damn well show that horrible accidents happen even to the most cautious and humane soldiers under the pressure of trying to prevent innocent civilians on both sides from dieing due to actions of relentless terrorists, who are the ones, setting these outrageous rules of combat.
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right cautious and humane soldier riddle little girls with bullets their backs when they are running away and have dropped the thing which was thought mite contain explosives..... or shoot unarmed white flag waving british journalists....blah blah soldiers who act in this way should be disciplined but it seems the state of israel allows such actions to go unchecked or possibly even encourages them.....
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The army's official account said that Iman was shot for crossing into a security zone carrying her schoolbag which soldiers feared might contain a bomb.
Yeah, take this as an example of military coercion, I mean, we've had so much precedent to cases like this^^ . It would never justefy a killing of an innocent child in my book(unlike those books according to which children in the Palestinian Autonomy are taught in school ::)) but it would damn well explain it and would damn well show that horrible accidents happen even to the most cautious and humane soldiers under the pressure of trying to prevent innocent civilians on both sides from dieing due to actions of relentless terrorists, who are the ones, setting these outrageous rules of combat.
^^^There was nothing accidental about that shooting regarding those 'cautious and most humane' soldiers.
After soldiers first opened fire, she dropped her schoolbag which was then hit by several bullets establishing that it did not contain explosive. At that point she was no longer carrying the bag and, the tape revealed, was heading away from the army post when she was shot.
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^ Come on, he doesn't want to read that. He purposely didn't quote that one for a reason... Anything but the truth for this guy. LOL
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I did read that and I never said it's right what this guy did, but it's a war situation over there. People do crazy things in a war. Some go nuts, like this Israeli captain.
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I did read that and I never said it's right what this guy did, but it's a war situation over there. People do crazy things in a war. Some go nuts, like this Israeli captain.
Stupid on your behalf, but understandable. The point is that he was acquitted. The terrorist state of Israel accepts the cold-blooded murder of innocent little girls. I'm surprised he didn't receive a medal.
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The point is that he was acquitted.
Where did I say I agree with that? I never did and never will.
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The point is that he was acquitted.
Where did I say I agree with that? I never did and never will.
Who said anything about you, retard? I was talking about I Geezy, not you. Go post some German shit-eating porn or something...
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The point is that he was acquitted.
Where did I say I agree with that? I never did and never will.
Who said anything about you, retard? I was talking about I Geezy, not you. Go post some German shit-eating porn or something...
That's why you quoted me, huh? :loser:
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The point is that he was acquitted.
Where did I say I agree with that? I never did and never will.
Who said anything about you, retard? I was talking about I Geezy, not you. Go post some German shit-eating porn or something...
That's why you quoted me, huh? :loser:
You fucking retard.... go read reply #34.. I'm talking about IGeezy... then read reply #35 where your faggot ass thinks I'm talking about you...
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The army's official account said that Iman was shot for crossing into a security zone carrying her schoolbag which soldiers feared might contain a bomb.
Yeah, take this as an example of military coercion, I mean, we've had so much precedent to cases like this . It would never justefy a killing of an innocent child in my book(unlike those books according to which children in the Palestinian Autonomy are taught in school ::)) but it would damn well explain it and would damn well show that horrible accidents happen even to the most cautious and humane soldiers under the pressure of trying to prevent innocent civilians on both sides from dieing due to actions of relentless terrorists, who are the ones, setting these outrageous rules of combat.
^^^There was nothing accidental about that shooting regarding those 'cautious and most humane' soldiers.
After soldiers first opened fire, she dropped her schoolbag which was then hit by several bullets establishing that it did not contain explosive. At that point she was no longer carrying the bag and, the tape revealed, was heading away from the army post when she was shot.
You could claim that I have ignored it, only if YOU, JAMAL, ignored the *glowy part.
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The point is that he was acquitted.
Where did I say I agree with that? I never did and never will.
Who said anything about you, retard? I was talking about I Geezy, not you. Go post some German shit-eating porn or something...
That's why you quoted me, huh? :loser:
You fucking retard.... go read reply #34.. I'm talking about IGeezy... then read reply #35 where your faggot ass thinks I'm talking about you...
reply #34 and #35? be a little bit more clear please
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Jesus, the guy was been judged by a military court! It's obvious they didn't consider him guilty. Where's the scandal? I mean it's a scandal, but nothing new. U.S. military court said the ones who killed italian 007 SISMI agent in Iraq, Nicola Calipari, were innocent. They're always innocent. I mean military judging themselves. You can't really make so many posts about it. I feel sorry for the girl killed, but that's how it works when a military court has to judge something so "delicate" that can fuck up the confidence of the whole army.
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The point is that he was acquitted.
Where did I say I agree with that? I never did and never will.
Who said anything about you, retard? I was talking about I Geezy, not you. Go post some German shit-eating porn or something...
That's why you quoted me, huh? :loser:
You fucking retard.... go read reply #34.. I'm talking about IGeezy... then read reply #35 where your faggot ass thinks I'm talking about you...
reply #34 and #35? be a little bit more clear please
Wipe the jizz out of your eyes
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LMAO@defending trigger happy killaz just cause they Jewish. This ain't soccer games where you side with your team for the hell of it even if you're wrong.
i feel you, these niggas are really gettin outta hand, and to think that the palestinians are gonna sit there and get sodomized, your fuckin trippin homie. at the end of the day, aint shit gonna come outta this beef, and the israelis or the palestinians are gonna blow up the planet, but fear not, cuz we'll all be there for the ride, cuz some nigga who was put in a position of power was adament that he took the right approach. this shit makes me sick everyday, you cant even wake up and have a good day when a beef of this magnitude is an everyday thing. but the part that fucks me up the most is, a country could blow earth up, and we're fucking pawns. ;), this is pathetic. i guess everyone should burn some grand daddy, and grab a bottle of privey... 8)