WOW Steelers win a nail biter!

[Shallow]

He finished 22-of-38 for 290 yards with one touchdown, five sacks and countless hurries.


Sums up why it isnt Peyton's fault.  Is Manning suppose to block, play D, write up the protection schemes, and kick a FG since hes the leader?

well playing very un peyton like in the first 3 quarters is his fault.  Throwing a ball that should of been a INT is his fault.  If that ball is a INT the game is 21-10 maybe it becomes a blow out.  This is just as much peytons fault as the O line, just as much as vanderjact.  Hell Dan Marino stats wise is the greatest QB to ever live, he never won a big game either even though it was his fault, he never had a running game.  bottom line though he was always held accountable for it.  Well Peyton is also held accountable for it.  Thats the way it is in football.

It wasn't an INT because he never made a football motion before the ball hit the ground after his knee knocked it out. It happens all the time. I've seen guys intercept balls fall on their backs and have the contact knock it out and then get it back but it ends up incomplete.

The Colts were outplayed plain and simple. This game really showed where they need to change and improve, they need new outside tackles and new defensive backs. Their pass defence is horrible and Pit never should have been able to put up 21 points with those same stupid long balls. Sure if Manning could scramble like Flutie then the O Line wouldn't be a problem but Manning isn't that kind of QB and in any case when the D can get to the QB in under 2 seconds even when there isn't a blitz then you have problems. The player of the game though with out a doubt is who ever was covering Harrison because that guy just couldn't get open.

I put a lot of blame on Harper's wife for stabbing his knee. I have a feeling he could have ran that fumble to a TD if he wasn't injured. Bitch.

[The Big Bad Ass]

lol @ saying it was peyton choking. Looked to me like Vandy's 46 yarder getting shanked was the choke job of the year for the colts. Manning did all that he could. The O line dropped the ball

[Ðøšïå]

^ too bad peyton couldnt get that 46 yard kick a little closer.. thats a good distance to a kick a fuckin ball under that much pressure.

[Shallow]

^ too bad peyton couldnt get that 46 yard kick a little closer.. thats a good distance to a kick a fuckin ball under that much pressure.

Yeah but that was right in Vanderjagt's range. It was his only miss at home ever. That kick was almost a sign from above saying you guys didn't deserve to win. It's real simple, the Colts were out played every step of the way. Saying Peyton choked is unfair to the Steelers and Cowher. Bill Cowher set up a plan where he exposed the invulnerability of the Colt's secondary and he rushed the QB the same way San Diego did and took advantage of a suspect O Line. All year as the Colts were winning everyone was harping on their weak schedule and now that they lose it's Peyton's fault for choking. Which is it; were they given an easy buch of wins or were they truly the best team by far and couldn't handle it under pressure? The answer is simple, they area great team with a great QB, a great set of WRs, and a great RB, with a few great players on D. But the rest is a mediocre team. I'd like to see that same team with out Peyton and see how well it would do? All the other teams would have to do is gaurd the run and double team Harrison and it would be over.

[herpes]

He finished 22-of-38 for 290 yards with one touchdown, five sacks and countless hurries.


Sums up why it isnt Peyton's fault.  Is Manning suppose to block, play D, write up the protection schemes, and kick a FG since hes the leader?

well playing very un peyton like in the first 3 quarters is his fault.  Throwing a ball that should of been a INT is his fault.  If that ball is a INT the game is 21-10 maybe it becomes a blow out.  This is just as much peytons fault as the O line, just as much as vanderjact.  Hell Dan Marino stats wise is the greatest QB to ever live, he never won a big game either even though it was his fault, he never had a running game.  bottom line though he was always held accountable for it.  Well Peyton is also held accountable for it.  Thats the way it is in football.

It wasn't an INT because he never made a football motion before the ball hit the ground after his knee knocked it out. It happens all the time. I've seen guys intercept balls fall on their backs and have the contact knock it out and then get it back but it ends up incomplete.

he did make a football motion, he rolled on the friggin ground with the ball.  The NFL came out 2day saying the wrong call was made.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs05/news/story?id=2294309Updated: Jan. 16, 2006, 5:24 PM ET

NFL: Polamalu overturned interception the wrong callAssociated Press


The NFL said the referee made a mistake: Troy Polamalu caught the ball.

The league acknowledged Monday that referee Pete Morelli erred when he overturned on replay Polamalu's interception of a Peyton Manning pass Sunday in the playoff game between Pittsburgh and Indianapolis.

Mike Pereira, the league's vice president of officiating, said in a statement that Morelli should have upheld the call, made with 5:26 left in Pittsburgh's win over the Colts.

"He maintained possession long enough to establish a catch," Pereira said. "Therefore, the replay review should have upheld the call on the field that it was a catch and fumble."

After the reversal, the Colts went on to score a touchdown and a 2-point conversion, cutting the Steelers' 21-10 lead to 21-18. That led to a wild final few minutes and Pittsburgh clinched its win only when the Colts' Mike Vanderjagt missed a 46-yard field-goal attempt.

On the play, Polamalu made a diving catch of Manning's pass, tumbled with it in his hands and got up to run. When he did, he fumbled the ball, then recovered. Colts coach Tony Dungy challenged and Morelli ruled Polamalu had not completed the catch.

Shortly after the game, Morelli said: "I had the defender catching the ball. Before he got up, he hit it with his leg with his other leg still on the ground. Therefore, he did not complete the catch. And then he lost the ball. It came out, and so we made the play an incomplete pass."


Had the call stood, the Steelers would have had the ball at their own 48 with an 11-point lead.

"The definition of a catch -- or in this case an interception -- states that in the process of making a catch a player must maintain possession of the ball after he contacts the ground," Pereira said.

"The rule regarding the performing of an act common to the game applies when there is contact with a defensive player and the ball comes loose, which did not happen here."

The NFL almost never makes public the result of its reviews, although it did three years ago, when Pereira said officials should have called pass interference against San Francisco on the final play of a wild-card game with the New York Giants. The correct call would have given New York a second chance to kick a game-winning field goal in a 39-38 loss.

After the game, Pittsburgh linebacker Joey Porter said of the ruling:

"I know they wanted Indy to win this game; the whole world loves Peyton Manning. But come on, man, don't take the game away from us like that."

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello had no comment on Porter's statement.

In the past, players who have made such statements have been subject to fines.

Polamalu's overturned interception wasn't the only unusual call. Earlier in the game, when the Steelers were preparing to go for a fourth-and-inches from the Pittsburgh 48, two Colts defensive lineman ran across the line of scrimmage, pointing at the Steelers as if one of the linemen moved.

The officials stopped the game, but called no penalty.

Replays appeared to show Alan Faneca barely flinched. But Steelers coach Bill Cowher argued the Colts made contact with the linemen, which would have forced an offside call and a first down. Instead, Ben Roethlisberger ran a quarterback sneak for a first down, which allowed Pittsburgh to use another 5:02 before punting.



 
 

[Macaframa]

He finished 22-of-38 for 290 yards with one touchdown, five sacks and countless hurries.


Sums up why it isnt Peyton's fault.  Is Manning suppose to block, play D, write up the protection schemes, and kick a FG since hes the leader?

well playing very un peyton like in the first 3 quarters is his fault.  Throwing a ball that should of been a INT is his fault.  If that ball is a INT the game is 21-10 maybe it becomes a blow out.  This is just as much peytons fault as the O line, just as much as vanderjact.  Hell Dan Marino stats wise is the greatest QB to ever live, he never won a big game either even though it was his fault, he never had a running game.  bottom line though he was always held accountable for it.  Well Peyton is also held accountable for it.  Thats the way it is in football.

It wasn't an INT because he never made a football motion before the ball hit the ground after his knee knocked it out. It happens all the time. I've seen guys intercept balls fall on their backs and have the contact knock it out and then get it back but it ends up incomplete.

he did make a football motion, he rolled on the friggin ground with the ball.  The NFL came out 2day saying the wrong call was made.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs05/news/story?id=2294309Updated: Jan. 16, 2006, 5:24 PM ET

NFL: Polamalu overturned interception the wrong callAssociated Press


The NFL said the referee made a mistake: Troy Polamalu caught the ball.

The league acknowledged Monday that referee Pete Morelli erred when he overturned on replay Polamalu's interception of a Peyton Manning pass Sunday in the playoff game between Pittsburgh and Indianapolis.

Mike Pereira, the league's vice president of officiating, said in a statement that Morelli should have upheld the call, made with 5:26 left in Pittsburgh's win over the Colts.

"He maintained possession long enough to establish a catch," Pereira said. "Therefore, the replay review should have upheld the call on the field that it was a catch and fumble."

After the reversal, the Colts went on to score a touchdown and a 2-point conversion, cutting the Steelers' 21-10 lead to 21-18. That led to a wild final few minutes and Pittsburgh clinched its win only when the Colts' Mike Vanderjagt missed a 46-yard field-goal attempt.

On the play, Polamalu made a diving catch of Manning's pass, tumbled with it in his hands and got up to run. When he did, he fumbled the ball, then recovered. Colts coach Tony Dungy challenged and Morelli ruled Polamalu had not completed the catch.

Shortly after the game, Morelli said: "I had the defender catching the ball. Before he got up, he hit it with his leg with his other leg still on the ground. Therefore, he did not complete the catch. And then he lost the ball. It came out, and so we made the play an incomplete pass."


Had the call stood, the Steelers would have had the ball at their own 48 with an 11-point lead.

"The definition of a catch -- or in this case an interception -- states that in the process of making a catch a player must maintain possession of the ball after he contacts the ground," Pereira said.

"The rule regarding the performing of an act common to the game applies when there is contact with a defensive player and the ball comes loose, which did not happen here."

The NFL almost never makes public the result of its reviews, although it did three years ago, when Pereira said officials should have called pass interference against San Francisco on the final play of a wild-card game with the New York Giants. The correct call would have given New York a second chance to kick a game-winning field goal in a 39-38 loss.

After the game, Pittsburgh linebacker Joey Porter said of the ruling:

"I know they wanted Indy to win this game; the whole world loves Peyton Manning. But come on, man, don't take the game away from us like that."

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello had no comment on Porter's statement.

In the past, players who have made such statements have been subject to fines.

Polamalu's overturned interception wasn't the only unusual call. Earlier in the game, when the Steelers were preparing to go for a fourth-and-inches from the Pittsburgh 48, two Colts defensive lineman ran across the line of scrimmage, pointing at the Steelers as if one of the linemen moved.

The officials stopped the game, but called no penalty.

Replays appeared to show Alan Faneca barely flinched. But Steelers coach Bill Cowher argued the Colts made contact with the linemen, which would have forced an offside call and a first down. Instead, Ben Roethlisberger ran a quarterback sneak for a first down, which allowed Pittsburgh to use another 5:02 before punting.



 
 

i was just about to post an article exactly like that from NFL.com

[Shallow]

I stand corrected. It's still not as bad as the Brady tuck fumble and it wasn't the only bad call in the game. Like the article said the false start that wasn't called, there was a pass interference the refs didn't call on Indy and another pass interference on the last throw to Wayne in the endzone.

It doesn't matter. Pit outplayed the Colts and deserved to win. I still say they won't be able to beat Denver. Plummer is too mobile to get hurried like Manning and the Broncos have a way better defensive backfield. I guess we'll see next week.

[Perfection]

What the fuck did Peyton do to choke?  If it wasnt for Peyton, the Colts wouldnt even be in position to tie the game in the end.  It's not peyton's fault their O-line stunk it up.

It's Peyton's fault that the Colts offense never adapted to the way the Steelers defense was playing. The Steelers were blitzing all game & there are 2 ways to help make a defense stop blitzing, draw play & screen play. Peyton called none of those plays. I believe he let his ego get the better of him in that in his mind he wasn't going to resort to calling a screen play & probably thought cause he's Peyton Manning, still standing in the pocket for a long time & throwing the ball down the field was eventually going to work. & Peyton proved after the game that he isn't much of a leader considering he threw his entire offensive line under the bus & didn't take responsbility for the way the Colts offsense played.

If it wasn't for the refs the Colts wouldn't have been in position to win that game in the end, seeing how the NFL has said that the refs messed up & that was an INT & then a fumble. So it should have been Steelers' ball & they end up winning 21-10.

So like I said, there are ways help make a defense not blitz so much at least & Peyton Manning never called any of those plays. Now the Colts are going to lose their MVP in the offseason (James) & probably lose Reggie Wayne as well.

[Shallow]

What the fuck did Peyton do to choke?  If it wasnt for Peyton, the Colts wouldnt even be in position to tie the game in the end.  It's not peyton's fault their O-line stunk it up.

It's Peyton's fault that the Colts offense never adapted to the way the Steelers defense was playing. The Steelers were blitzing all game & there are 2 ways to help make a defense stop blitzing, draw play & screen play. Peyton called none of those plays. I believe he let his ego get the better of him in that in his mind he wasn't going to resort to calling a screen play & probably thought cause he's Peyton Manning, still standing in the pocket for a long time & throwing the ball down the field was eventually going to work. & Peyton proved after the game that he isn't much of a leader considering he threw his entire offensive line under the bus & didn't take responsbility for the way the Colts offsense played.

If it wasn't for the refs the Colts wouldn't have been in position to win that game in the end, seeing how the NFL has said that the refs messed up & that was an INT & then a fumble. So it should have been Steelers' ball & they end up winning 21-10.

So like I said, there are ways help make a defense not blitz so much at least & Peyton Manning never called any of those plays. Now the Colts are going to lose their MVP in the offseason (James) & probably lose Reggie Wayne as well.

Yeah but if the refs made the right call on the 4th and 1 then Pit would have had 4th and 6 and punted instead of ran and then they wouldn't have had their 3rd TD. So it would have been 14-11. Tit for tat.

And it is not Manning's fault that the Oline crumbled. Screenplay or nor screen play, the linebackers and safeties were all over everything. Plus, Manning changes the lays when he sees fit. The Colts have and a co-ordinater and a head coach who would have forced that style on Manning by half time if they though it would have worked. Most of the time it wasn't even blitzing. It was to linemen on one guy while a another defensive lineman just walked in and got to Manning. No one is saying that Manning couldn't have played better but given the circumstances I don't think anyone outside of Michael Vick or Doug Flutie could have done anything to get away from the sacks. Not Marino. Not Favre. Vick would have thrown more INTs thanks to has bad accuracy, but I think a '98 Flutie would have went to town on that D, but he suffers in pocket passing.

[Perfection]

What the fuck did Peyton do to choke?  If it wasnt for Peyton, the Colts wouldnt even be in position to tie the game in the end.  It's not peyton's fault their O-line stunk it up.

It's Peyton's fault that the Colts offense never adapted to the way the Steelers defense was playing. The Steelers were blitzing all game & there are 2 ways to help make a defense stop blitzing, draw play & screen play. Peyton called none of those plays. I believe he let his ego get the better of him in that in his mind he wasn't going to resort to calling a screen play & probably thought cause he's Peyton Manning, still standing in the pocket for a long time & throwing the ball down the field was eventually going to work. & Peyton proved after the game that he isn't much of a leader considering he threw his entire offensive line under the bus & didn't take responsbility for the way the Colts offsense played.

If it wasn't for the refs the Colts wouldn't have been in position to win that game in the end, seeing how the NFL has said that the refs messed up & that was an INT & then a fumble. So it should have been Steelers' ball & they end up winning 21-10.

So like I said, there are ways help make a defense not blitz so much at least & Peyton Manning never called any of those plays. Now the Colts are going to lose their MVP in the offseason (James) & probably lose Reggie Wayne as well.

Yeah but if the refs made the right call on the 4th and 1 then Pit would have had 4th and 6 and punted instead of ran and then they wouldn't have had their 3rd TD. So it would have been 14-11. Tit for tat.

And it is not Manning's fault that the Oline crumbled. Screenplay or nor screen play, the linebackers and safeties were all over everything. Plus, Manning changes the lays when he sees fit. The Colts have and a co-ordinater and a head coach who would have forced that style on Manning by half time if they though it would have worked. Most of the time it wasn't even blitzing. It was to linemen on one guy while a another defensive lineman just walked in and got to Manning. No one is saying that Manning couldn't have played better but given the circumstances I don't think anyone outside of Michael Vick or Doug Flutie could have done anything to get away from the sacks. Not Marino. Not Favre. Vick would have thrown more INTs thanks to has bad accuracy, but I think a '98 Flutie would have went to town on that D, but he suffers in pocket passing.

Peyton should've taken some of the responsibility & because he threw all of the blame on everyone else but him, it shows he's not a true leader. & you saw how Manning didn't listen to Dungy when Dungy sent out the punt team, if Manning was told something by Moore or Dungy, there's a good chance Manning siad he would do it, & then changed the play.

& are you talking about the play where the Colts defense stopped to agrue a false start that went uncalled & because the Colts' defense did that they should've been called for a delay of game penatly?

[Shallow]

What the fuck did Peyton do to choke?  If it wasnt for Peyton, the Colts wouldnt even be in position to tie the game in the end.  It's not peyton's fault their O-line stunk it up.

It's Peyton's fault that the Colts offense never adapted to the way the Steelers defense was playing. The Steelers were blitzing all game & there are 2 ways to help make a defense stop blitzing, draw play & screen play. Peyton called none of those plays. I believe he let his ego get the better of him in that in his mind he wasn't going to resort to calling a screen play & probably thought cause he's Peyton Manning, still standing in the pocket for a long time & throwing the ball down the field was eventually going to work. & Peyton proved after the game that he isn't much of a leader considering he threw his entire offensive line under the bus & didn't take responsbility for the way the Colts offsense played.

If it wasn't for the refs the Colts wouldn't have been in position to win that game in the end, seeing how the NFL has said that the refs messed up & that was an INT & then a fumble. So it should have been Steelers' ball & they end up winning 21-10.

So like I said, there are ways help make a defense not blitz so much at least & Peyton Manning never called any of those plays. Now the Colts are going to lose their MVP in the offseason (James) & probably lose Reggie Wayne as well.

Yeah but if the refs made the right call on the 4th and 1 then Pit would have had 4th and 6 and punted instead of ran and then they wouldn't have had their 3rd TD. So it would have been 14-11. Tit for tat.

And it is not Manning's fault that the Oline crumbled. Screenplay or nor screen play, the linebackers and safeties were all over everything. Plus, Manning changes the lays when he sees fit. The Colts have and a co-ordinater and a head coach who would have forced that style on Manning by half time if they though it would have worked. Most of the time it wasn't even blitzing. It was to linemen on one guy while a another defensive lineman just walked in and got to Manning. No one is saying that Manning couldn't have played better but given the circumstances I don't think anyone outside of Michael Vick or Doug Flutie could have done anything to get away from the sacks. Not Marino. Not Favre. Vick would have thrown more INTs thanks to has bad accuracy, but I think a '98 Flutie would have went to town on that D, but he suffers in pocket passing.

Peyton should've taken some of the responsibility & because he threw all of the blame on everyone else but him, it shows he's not a true leader. & you saw how Manning didn't listen to Dungy when Dungy sent out the punt team, if Manning was told something by Moore or Dungy, there's a good chance Manning siad he would do it, & then changed the play.

& are you talking about the play where the Colts defense stopped to agrue a false start that went uncalled & because the Colts' defense did that they should've been called for a delay of game penatly?

All Peyton said was there was protection issues. That's hardly blaming everyone else but him. He didn't say anything about who you consider the MVP not being able to make any big plays. Why? Because thanks to the Oline breakdown James couldn't get any good chances to run. He didn't say anything about the WRs not getting open. Why? Beccause 2.2 seconds is not enough time to get open. The team was outplayed and outcoached. It's simple as that. People are just kicking Manning now that he's down. They did the same thing to John Elway once.

And if you study the rulebook you'll notice that an offensive lineman cannot move while he's in position. Pit's lineman moved his foot, the Colts line saw it and rushed. The call was missed.

[BOX5 the best poster on this site yell]

PEYTON CHOKED PLAIN AND SIMPLE,STOP trying to take up for that hillbilly,he know the steelers are blitz burg, he threw that int that the ref just act like didn't happen,they did everything they could to help that guy,hell even patriots got cheated outta some plays in they game with that champ bailey play should have been a touch bacc, face it peyton choked again hahahahaha,i had that bastard going to the super bowl for these past 3 years and the hillybilly choked again, peyton manning and andy reid of the eagles are choke artist,untill they win the big one they have to deal with they failure,and don't blame the colts o-line or defence ether,because when my squad won the super bowl (the rams of course) we ain't have no defence and only two good  o-line players yell

[Shallow]

PEYTON CHOKED PLAIN AND SIMPLE,STOP trying to take up for that hillbilly,he know the steelers are blitz burg, he threw that int that the ref just act like didn't happen,they did everything they could to help that guy,hell even patriots got cheated outta some plays in they game with that champ bailey play should have been a touch bacc, face it peyton choked again hahahahaha,i had that bastard going to the super bowl for these past 3 years and the hillybilly choked again, peyton manning and andy reid of the eagles are choke artist,untill they win the big one they have to deal with they failure,and don't blame the colts o-line or defence ether,because when my squad won the super bowl (the rams of course) we ain't have no defence and only two good  o-line players yell

So when a football team wins or loses it's only because of how well the QB does? And any QB that never wins isn't that good? So I guess Trent Dilfer or Tony Banks, Brad Johnson, and Jim McMahon are all better than Dan Marino.

I guess when St. Loius won it was all because of Warner. The other 5 probowlers on the team had nothing to do with it. The fact thaat they held the number 7 ranked offense Titans to 16 points was nothing.

I'm not defending Manning. He could have and should have played better and needs to improve his scrambling in case of emergencies, but let's be realistic. You give today's Peyton Manning the '95 Cowboys' Oline and have them play Pittsburgh and there is no way in hell the Colts would have lost. NFL is a team game and the team was outplayed. The D shut down on the first two Pit drives and the Oline shut down all day. To simply blame Manning is bullshit. He could have played better but if he was on Pit Sunday and Ben was on Indy then Manning would be playing next week and Ben would be going home. Because PITTSBURGH outplayed INDIANAPOLIS.

[The Big Bad Ass]

PEYTON CHOKED PLAIN AND SIMPLE,STOP trying to take up for that hillbilly,he know the steelers are blitz burg, he threw that int that the ref just act like didn't happen,they did everything they could to help that guy,hell even patriots got cheated outta some plays in they game with that champ bailey play should have been a touch bacc, face it peyton choked again hahahahaha,i had that bastard going to the super bowl for these past 3 years and the hillybilly choked again, peyton manning and andy reid of the eagles are choke artist,untill they win the big one they have to deal with they failure,and don't blame the colts o-line or defence ether,because when my squad won the super bowl (the rams of course) we ain't have no defence and only two good  o-line players yell

Longest sentence ever.

[BOX5 the best poster on this site yell]

PEYTON CHOKED PLAIN AND SIMPLE,STOP trying to take up for that hillbilly,he know the steelers are blitz burg, he threw that int that the ref just act like didn't happen,they did everything they could to help that guy,hell even patriots got cheated outta some plays in they game with that champ bailey play should have been a touch bacc, face it peyton choked again hahahahaha,i had that bastard going to the super bowl for these past 3 years and the hillybilly choked again, peyton manning and andy reid of the eagles are choke artist,untill they win the big one they have to deal with they failure,and don't blame the colts o-line or defence ether,because when my squad won the super bowl (the rams of course) we ain't have no defence and only two good  o-line players yell

So when a football team wins or loses it's only because of how well the QB does? And any QB that never wins isn't that good? So I guess Trent Dilfer or Tony Banks, Brad Johnson, and Jim McMahon are all better than Dan Marino.

I guess when St. Loius won it was all because of Warner. The other 5 probowlers on the team had nothing to do with it. The fact thaat they held the number 7 ranked offense Titans to 16 points was nothing.

I'm not defending Manning. He could have and should have played better and needs to improve his scrambling in case of emergencies, but let's be realistic. You give today's Peyton Manning the '95 Cowboys' Oline and have them play Pittsburgh and there is no way in hell the Colts would have lost. NFL is a team game and the team was outplayed. The D shut down on the first two Pit drives and the Oline shut down all day. To simply blame Manning is bullshit. He could have played better but if he was on Pit Sunday and Ben was on Indy then Manning would be playing next week and Ben would be going home. Because PITTSBURGH outplayed INDIANAPOLIS.

STOP WITH THAT ALREADY,give him the 95 cowboys o-line hahaha,this ain't fantasy football my equal. AND YOU know exactly what i mean about payton choking, and then blaming his o-line basically for the lost. qb is the leader take that responsiblity on your shoulders,this is not the first time he has done this. when jim mora went off in the infamous "playoff" rant. Payton didn't get mad that he called the team out he got mad cause he basically called "him" out. And as far as talent go i think the hillbilly is the best in the game in the poccet and he works his ass off, it's just he always finds ways to blame others,and no differ in those guys are not better then marino, but i tell you this i would rather have mcmahon or even  trent differ in a big game over marino yell