Wrestling backstage politics

[M Dogg™]

I was always weirded out seeing old reports of Hulk Hogan holding down younger talent. Thoughout wrestling history, there has always been that one guy that's the big draw. When Hulk Hogan broke into wrestling, it was Andre the Giant. And though Hogan was the champ, in Wrestlemania III, if Andre wanted to, he could have said he wanted the title, and Vince and Hulk would have gave it to him. Reading on the backstage, everyone paid Andre respect, and called him boss, though he called them boss, there was no denying he was the Boss of the backstage. He was the reason Hulk Hogan could be, the same way Hulk Hogan is the reason the current generation can be. These oung wrestlers should be paying Hogan respect, the same way Hogan and others in the 80's paid Andre. I know in the WWE they do now, but I know in WCW they didn't. The young talened didn't know who put food in their mouths. Everyone knew in the 80's that Andre put the food in their mouths. In the 90's, they forgot that it was off Hogan's draw that they ate. Now I sense they know, and that the 90's left many stars that paved the way, not just a Hogan or Andre figure. But still, I think back and I think about how other wrestlers wanted things handed to them because they are young. Reading old backstage stories, it was hard to get respect.

On a side note, Triple H doesn't deserve the backstage power he has. Hogan and Andre made wrestling, and wrestlers millions off their drawing power. You see Hogan or Andre on the headline, you buy a ticket and wrestlers on that show get pad more. Triple H is not that type. His a great in ring worker, up there with Benoit and Angle. But to me, to have that kind of power, you need to have the drawing power, and Triple H ain't that deal. Now if he wrestlers Angle at Wrestlemania, I think he will become that deal, but right now.

[BOX5 the best poster on this site yell]

you got some points,but sometimes you got to push talent in the bacc that work hard,regardless if you like them or not,cause thats where shit get fucc'd up at,come on man beefcake after his boating injury was shit (alot would say before that as well) but because he was one of "hogans friends" he got mad pushes when he clearly didn't deserve them,hell look at how man reincarnations he had in the wcw,hell he even headlined a feud with hogan!!!!!!,the thing that made andre great is,even tho he was "the boss" as you said,he never wore the belt during that time,giving someone like hogan time to shine along side him and then eventually passing the torch to him, who hogan do that for nash hahaha mr knobby knees,bill goldberg, who was a good draw during his streak,even tho he injured many of wrestlers with his wreccless style in the ring,you got to think about those sort of things, hell look at beniot and eddy g rip,when they got they time to shine they showed they could lead yell

[Sikotic™]

That's very true what you said about how some talent believes they deserve the spotlight because of their youth. A veteran's body has withstood the test of time and has proven his loyalty to the business and the art. These younger guys tend to be inexperienced, immature, injury prone, and not team players. That's why only a few in the talent pool tend to rise to the top. It's no different than the past generations, but with wrestlers whining and crying about their misfortune on the net, it makes the situation seem so different.

Brock Lesnar ring a bell? He was young, talented, and the WWE gave him the world. What does he do? He leaves his enormous contract for some long shot at the NFL. That's why the WWE would rather deal with a tried and proven veteran like Hogan, The Undertaker, etc.

[M Dogg™]

you got some points,but sometimes you got to push talent in the bacc that work hard,regardless if you like them or not,cause thats where shit get fucc'd up at,come on man beefcake after his boating injury was shit (alot would say before that as well) but because he was one of "hogans friends" he got mad pushes when he clearly didn't deserve them,hell look at how man reincarnations he had in the wcw,hell he even headlined a feud with hogan!!!!!!,the thing that made andre great is,even tho he was "the boss" as you said,he never wore the belt during that time,giving someone like hogan time to shine along side him and then eventually passing the torch to him, who hogan do that for nash hahaha mr knobby knees,bill goldberg, who was a good draw during his streak,even tho he injured many of wrestlers with his wreccless style in the ring,you got to think about those sort of things, hell look at beniot and eddy g rip,when they got they time to shine they showed they could lead yell

somethings go as they go. But you forgot that Warrior was originally suppose to get the torch. WCW was fucked up, but there was no one that Hogan could leave it with. Only Sting. But Sting was an old vet too.

As for Lesner, exactly. He got to beat the Undertaker, Hogan, Angle, and what did he do, leave. The Rock left. The only wrestler in Hogan/Andre's level is Steve Austin. And he can't wrestle no more because of his neck. He actually should have been done, but continued with a more brawling style just to continue wrestling. That's heart. That's someone that's a top draw and dedicated to wrestling. Benoit and Guerrero showed great backstage respect, and got it back. They deserved their title runs. But again, only Austin is on Hogan's level, on Andre's level. Hogan didn't have to pass the torch, Austin switch federations, and made his own torch and ran with it. In his last run as champion, his heel run after Wrestlemania X7, it seemed like no one was ready to carry it on. Triple H wants it, but he don't put butts in the seats. Benoit and Guerrero earned world titles, and follow in the Thesz, Flair, Hart tradition, and that's how they wanted their reigns to go. But it takes a lot to get to that Andre/Hogan level. On a side note, Frenchie Martin and Dino Bravo only had jobs because of Andre.

[Trauma-san]

The whole "Hogan holding back talent" thing is a myth.  Hogan had clout, and got away with a lot of things, but people act like he was given what he had.  Hogan took what he had.  Nobody gave Hogan the ball, he took it.  Sure, you can give Vince a lot of the credit, but could anybody else have done what Hogan did?  No... he had an amazing work rate, he had an incredible body, he was unbelievably charismatic, and he just stepped up many, many years ago and took everything to an entire nother level.  

When Hogan has been around other wrestlers with an ounce of the charisma he had (and still does) there's nothing he can do to hold them back.  How could anybody have held Hogan back? It was impossible.  They even fired him and he came back stronger than he was before.  20 years later, he can step back in the ring at Wrestlemania against the Rock, and be a bigger draw than he was in the prime of his career.  He's unstoppable, immortal.

Look at Hogan's career.  They put him in a fued with the Warrior.  Hogan jobbed to the Warrior.  The Warrior got a big head and fucked the whole thing up.  Hogan went on to better things.

They put him in a fued with Sting.  Hogan worked with and jobbed to Sting on several occassions.  Sting, in that angle, got a greater rub than ever before, even though he had been champ and was already a huge name.

Hogan's jobbed to Flair countless times and vice versa.

Hogan jobbed to Bill Goldberg.  Why? ... because Goldberg had a lot of momentum and stepped up and took the opportunity in front of him.  That's how it works.  Hogan couldn't have held Goldberg down, because Goldberg didn't let that happen.  Then where did it go?  Goldberg retired and Hogan, again, went on to bigger and better things.

Hogan jobbed to the Rock.  What happened to the Rock?   He retired and went on to Hollywood, Hogan's still around and the Rock's movie career is dwindling.  

In WCW, at the end, Hogan jobbed to Mike Awesome.  Mike Awesome even did an Awesome bomb with Hogan through a table in the middle of the ring.  Where is Mike Awesome?  Fat, out of shape, and even TNA won't hire him.  

In WCW, at the end, Hogan jobbed to fuckin' Billy Kidman.  Where is Billy Kidman?  He's sitting at home drinking his life away because Vince McMahon fired him.  Hogan's still sitting on top of the wrestling world in the meantime.

Hogan jobbed to Kurt Angle, and to HHH his last time around in the WWE as well.

Hulk Hogan has continuously worked angles and given rubs to the best wrestlers in the business, and many of them have went on to make nothing of it.  There's really nothing people can argue about except to say Hogan didn't job to fuckin' Chris Benoit or whatever their favorite wrestler is that week, but Hogan never worked with guys like Benoit.  He jobbed to friekin' Billy Kidman.  You can't say shit about him holding people down.  

Another thing, that Sik-o-tic mentioned, is that youth doesn't give you a shot.  Hogan is extremely underrated by marks, they think oh, here's an old man who does the same old gimmick.  Hulk Hogan has never injured an opponent in the ring.  (don't give me that shit about that match in Japan, it was a work).  Hulk has continuously drawn more than any other champion with the possible exception of Stone Cold Steve Austin.  Hogan has an incredible amount of charisma, and is one of the best mic men ever, even if you think his "you know brother" act is stale, most people don't and most fans love him.  Hogan more than any other wrestler has succeeded in becoming a pop icon, I saw Paul Teutle on American  Choppers wearing a Hulk Hogan t-shirt the other night.  When Batista gave up his belt in the middle of the ring last week, the girl crying in the audience was wearing a home-made "Hulkamania" T-shirt.  He is head and shoulders above any wrestler before or since in the one aspect that matters: entertainment.  He's entertained more fans than any other wrestler in a sport that now calls itself sports entertainment.  He's the real deal.  Who else right now stands up to him?  Nobody, every other wrestler falls at his feet.  

[M Dogg™]

don't forget in Japan, inring injuries are common because they wrestle stiff. Also, in Japan, Hogan was a technical wrestler, not a powerhouse. Hogan Japan 1984 was one of the bestter technical wrestler you'll ever see.

[nibs]

On a side note, Triple H doesn't deserve the backstage power he has.

triple h and shawn michaels pretty much carried wwf when wcw was kicking their asses and everyone was leaving.  triple h really did all he could to help make guys like austin and the rock as big as they were. 

[nibs]

Look at Hogan's career.  They put him in a fued with the Warrior.  Hogan jobbed to the Warrior.  The Warrior got a big head and fucked the whole thing up.  Hogan went on to better things.

the ultimate warrior is really the only person hogan jobbed for during maybe an 5-8 year stretch in the wwf, from the mid 80's to the early 90's.  why couldn't the macho man keep the title for a little longer after he won it at wrestlemania 5?  noone seriously competed with hogan until the ultimate warrior took that title from him.   hogan never even lost the title to the macho man.  andre beat him gave it to dibiase, then it was vacated.  there's alot of guys in the wwf back in the day that never got a legit shot as hogan was given all the attention

[BOX5 the best poster on this site yell]

YALL MAKE ALOT OF GOOD POINTS BUT STILL BULLSHIT ABOUT HOGAN,REMEMBER THE PROMOTERS DO ALOT OF THE WORK,BY THROWING THE TITLE ON FOLKS AND GIVING THEM THAT SPOTLIGHT,AND FUCC THE ULTIMATE WARRIOR HE NEVER WAS GOOD ON THE STICC ANYWAY THATS WHY HE DIDN'T MAKE IT,BUT YALL CAN'T TELL ME SOMEONE LIKE MR PERFECT DIDN'T PUT BUTS IN SEATS,OR JAKE THE SNAKE AND THESE CATS NEVER GOT TITLE RUNS,AND I'LL DO YOU ONE BETTER,WHEN HOGAN WAS AT HIS HIGHEST IN POPULARTIY JYD WAS RIGHT THERE WITH HIM,BUT DID THEY PUT THE TITLE ON HIM? HELL HE DIDN'T EVEN GET THE IC TITLE AND HIS POPULARITY WAS RIGHT UP THERE WITH HOGAN,AND PEOPLE WAS COOL WITH HIM ON THE STICC,HE WAS WAY OVER,AND THE SAD THING ABOUT IT IS COLOR PLAYED A PART IN IT, AND HOW THE HELL DID BEEFCAKE GET A CHANCE TO HOLD A TITLE AND NOT JYD OR JAKE THE SNAKE? WHY CAUSE HE WAS HOGANS PAL SPEAK ON THEM POLITICS AS WELL YELL

[westkoastanostra]

^^^^well mr. perfect did become a two-time intercontinental champion....

[Shallow]

don't forget in Japan, inring injuries are common because they wrestle stiff. Also, in Japan, Hogan was a technical wrestler, not a powerhouse. Hogan Japan 1984 was one of the bestter technical wrestler you'll ever see.

That's a stretch. He was definately better in Japan and could be carried when he hustled but one of the better technical wrestlers you will ever see? Not even close. If we are talking techinical skills Hogan isn't in the top 100. Unless you use some stupid WWE style list like Top 10 American Wrestlers to win a tournament in Japan.


And Trauma; if the finish was set up for Inoki to be KOed what is the logic behind it. Why would the first ever IWPG tournament have Inoki lose to a virtually unknown Hulk Hogan? This was in '83. Before Hogan had become the international star he became in the WWF. This was when he was he was still just an AWA main eventer. It makes no sense for Hogan to beat a buy like Inoki who was a way bigger star in Japan than Hogan ever was in the US.


As for Hogan's polticking; it's no secret. He helped his buddies get good spots and kept down guys he didn't like. In the 80s it was fine because there was nothing better for business. But in WCW he hurt it just as much as he helped it and really helped it go under. His career is filled with little hissy fits. He kicked out of Warrior's pin right at 3 to make it look like he may have kicked out (of course Warrior worked even harder to destroy himself), he refused to work WM9 unless he was given the title at the end of the night and then refused to job to Bret afterwards, he completely killed Sting's momentum with that terrible finish at Starrcade. And these are just the major things. And he wasn't that big a draw in 2002 Trauma. When he won the belt the month after he lost to Rock the ratings went from mid 4s to high 3s during his title run. That's why it only lasted a month.

I like Hogan, I'm a big fan, but that doesn't mean I will ignore the obvious and support lies.

[Trauma-san]

Hulk Hogan is still easily the greatest of all time, no matter what you want to say about him, or accuse him of.  By far the most popular sports entertainer ever.  I don't care if he fucking killed somebody, it doesn't take away from what we're talking about, the g.o.a.t.  Shallow, it's your perogative to be the way you are, but you're throwing the logic you use at everything on here at this subject as well.  If somebody truly IS the shit, then it's not big headed for them to say that about themselves.  Hulk Hogan is the real deal, he has more clout than anybody else.  "His friends" of course he gave his friends perks, who the fuck wouldn't?  You mean to tell me you're going to put over and want good for people that are your enemies?  He couldn't stand the Warrior and look where that ended up.  Of course he helped Brutus Beefcake out, it was his buddy.  Anybody with a heart is going to want what's best for their friends.  If I can get my friend a job making a lot of money, I'm going to do it every single time.

As for him 'holding people down'.  That's rediculous, and you still didn't adress what I said about it.  How could someone have held Hogan down?  WAS IT POSSIBLE, for anyone at anytime, to have held Hogan back?  Could Vince have held Hogan down?  No, because Hogan left, when Vince fired him, and went to the AWA and set the place on fire.  He was so fucking good that Vince had to rehire him and it went from there.  Vince couldn't have not gave Hogan the belt, because the fans demanded it.  He couldn't have supressed Hogan's television time or whatever the hell you want to say Hogan did to Benoit or whoever, because  the fans demanded Hogan on television.

Now lets go to WCW.  Lets take Benoit.  Let's say that Hulk Hogan hated Chris Benoit.  He didn't like him, and didn't want him being on television.  If Benoit was even on a third the level Hogan was, the fans would have demanded to see Benoit ever week, there would have been signs, there would have been complaints, the ratings would shoot up during Benoit's segments... Hogan would not have been able to hold the guy back if he was worth a shit.  I'm not hating on Benoit, but the reason the guy hasn't been a huge star is because he just doesn't have what it takes to be a huge star.  He's in the wrong business if that's what he's looking for.  If he's looking to go out and entertain the hardcore fans and to enjoy wrestling as a sport and performing, then he's in the right sport. 

Hogan couldn't have held back anybody worth a shit, it would have been impossible.  Look @ Goldberg, you think Hogan WANTED to give his title up?  Hell no, he did it because he knew he had to, Goldberg was the shit at the time so Hogan couldn't do anything about it.  Anybody you want to say Hogan held back I'll tell you flat out didn't deserve the belt of the t.v. time or whatever the hell. 

[Shallow]

Hulk Hogan is still easily the greatest of all time, no matter what you want to say about him, or accuse him of.  By far the most popular sports entertainer ever.  I don't care if he fucking killed somebody, it doesn't take away from what we're talking about, the g.o.a.t.  Shallow, it's your perogative to be the way you are, but you're throwing the logic you use at everything on here at this subject as well.  If somebody truly IS the shit, then it's not big headed for them to say that about themselves.  Hulk Hogan is the real deal, he has more clout than anybody else.  "His friends" of course he gave his friends perks, who the fuck wouldn't?  You mean to tell me you're going to put over and want good for people that are your enemies?  He couldn't stand the Warrior and look where that ended up.  Of course he helped Brutus Beefcake out, it was his buddy.  Anybody with a heart is going to want what's best for their friends.  If I can get my friend a job making a lot of money, I'm going to do it every single time.

As for him 'holding people down'.  That's rediculous, and you still didn't adress what I said about it.  How could someone have held Hogan down?  WAS IT POSSIBLE, for anyone at anytime, to have held Hogan back?  Could Vince have held Hogan down?  No, because Hogan left, when Vince fired him, and went to the AWA and set the place on fire.  He was so fucking good that Vince had to rehire him and it went from there.  Vince couldn't have not gave Hogan the belt, because the fans demanded it.  He couldn't have supressed Hogan's television time or whatever the hell you want to say Hogan did to Benoit or whoever, because  the fans demanded Hogan on television.

Now lets go to WCW.  Lets take Benoit.  Let's say that Hulk Hogan hated Chris Benoit.  He didn't like him, and didn't want him being on television.  If Benoit was even on a third the level Hogan was, the fans would have demanded to see Benoit ever week, there would have been signs, there would have been complaints, the ratings would shoot up during Benoit's segments... Hogan would not have been able to hold the guy back if he was worth a shit.  I'm not hating on Benoit, but the reason the guy hasn't been a huge star is because he just doesn't have what it takes to be a huge star.  He's in the wrong business if that's what he's looking for.  If he's looking to go out and entertain the hardcore fans and to enjoy wrestling as a sport and performing, then he's in the right sport. 

Hogan couldn't have held back anybody worth a shit, it would have been impossible.  Look @ Goldberg, you think Hogan WANTED to give his title up?  Hell no, he did it because he knew he had to, Goldberg was the shit at the time so Hogan couldn't do anything about it.  Anybody you want to say Hogan held back I'll tell you flat out didn't deserve the belt of the t.v. time or whatever the hell. 

I'm not calling the guy evil or saying he shouldn't have done it. I'm just saying he did. Not so much by going out of his way to put someone down like he did with Sting at Starrcade. Sting himself said that Hogan didn't want to lose but had to, but he didn't want to look bad losing either so he talked Bischoff into setting up that stupid slow fast count and have Hart interfere. So what people had been waiting for, Sting winning the belt, was now tainted and Sting looked weak. That was childish and stupid. Sting compared his view on wrestling as acting. You pay me millions and I'll do what you tell me to do. He said if you tell Al Pacino his character dies in the movie how stupid would it be for Pacino to decline shooting the scene because he's afraid to look weak.


Anyway, I'm talking about Hogan hogging TV time and not allowing others to get over just because he was on TV so much. He would start off Nitros with a 25 minute promo and then end up either in the main event or interefering in it, and show up here and there in between. That was fine when he was the main draw, but Nitro's ratings stayed just as high when Hogan left as when he was there. When Goldberg won the title Hogan could have left completely, instead he was back the second stupid Nash screwed over Goldberg (Nash was just as responsoble for WCW's downfall as Hogan was. Russo takes the cake but those two didn't help). Hogan was back the night after Goldberg lost the belt and then Goldberg slowly got pushed aside. Even when Goldberg was champ Hogan wouldn't back off. Instead of letting Goldberg run with the belt against the top contenders Hogan took the spotlight back with his dumb feuds with Jay Leno and Warrior. It's not Hogan's fault. Management should have known better.

And I didn't address you saying Vince couldn't stop Hogan because I never disagreed with it. Theoretically Vince could have sent a shooter out there to make Hogan tap infront of everyone in a 5 minute match, but that would be the dumbest thing Vince could do. Vince needed Hogan to make the most money possible. No one is doubting that.

[BOX5 the best poster on this site yell]

don't forget in Japan, inring injuries are common because they wrestle stiff. Also, in Japan, Hogan was a technical wrestler, not a powerhouse. Hogan Japan 1984 was one of the bestter technical wrestler you'll ever see.

That's a stretch. He was definately better in Japan and could be carried when he hustled but one of the better technical wrestlers you will ever see? Not even close. If we are talking techinical skills Hogan isn't in the top 100. Unless you use some stupid WWE style list like Top 10 American Wrestlers to win a tournament in Japan.


And Trauma; if the finish was set up for Inoki to be KOed what is the logic behind it. Why would the first ever IWPG tournament have Inoki lose to a virtually unknown Hulk Hogan? This was in '83. Before Hogan had become the international star he became in the WWF. This was when he was he was still just an AWA main eventer. It makes no sense for Hogan to beat a buy like Inoki who was a way bigger star in Japan than Hogan ever was in the US.


As for Hogan's polticking; it's no secret. He helped his buddies get good spots and kept down guys he didn't like. In the 80s it was fine because there was nothing better for business. But in WCW he hurt it just as much as he helped it and really helped it go under. His career is filled with little hissy fits. He kicked out of Warrior's pin right at 3 to make it look like he may have kicked out (of course Warrior worked even harder to destroy himself), he refused to work WM9 unless he was given the title at the end of the night and then refused to job to Bret afterwards, he completely killed Sting's momentum with that terrible finish at Starrcade. And these are just the major things. And he wasn't that big a draw in 2002 Trauma. When he won the belt the month after he lost to Rock the ratings went from mid 4s to high 3s during his title run. That's why it only lasted a month.

I like Hogan, I'm a big fan, but that doesn't mean I will ignore the obvious and support lies.

AMEN TO YOU MY EQUAL, HOGAN IS LIKE my favorite of all time,but what he did in wcw was terrible at the end networth yell

[KiCkAsS]