Italian football's tangled web

[7even]

I suggest to ban Italian teams from the international competetions, like the CL and the UEFA-Cup next year.

[Antonio_]

What about last year, with Bovo touching the ball in his area and De Santis not giving us a penalty? C'mon..

P.S. You know more than me that, being a Parma fan, you're the last one in the Universe who can say a single word about anybody. Your team should have been deleted from soccer.

Maybe we should be extinct, I don't deny that, but there's a difference from being bankrupt, than to the allegations that are being made against your club.

I wondered why we got so fucked in the game vs Lecce last season, let's look at the facts:

- De Santis was the ref.
- 6 Parma players picked up bookings, Morfeo saw red in injury time for merely kicking the ball away.

the amount of players who were absent from our first-leg against Bologna, it's suprising that we only lost by a goal.

And the connection with Juventus?
Last season we have a 0-1-2 record with De Santis as our ref. So?

well if Fiorentina have "booked" the game, then they needed Parma to slip up. A coincidence? I don't think so.
isn't this the same De Santis who has been dropped from the World Cup?

I would be seriously fucked if this proves to be correct, if we was playing in B now.

Like I said, i'm not gonna dig into the mess too deep, as I was on vacation when it blew up, so I haven't followed it as much as yourself. Got enough dealing with new ownership, to care about other teams problems.

Ok, but i don't get the connection with Juventus/Moggi. If De Santis made bad calls against your team deal with it. He made bad calls against us too, and we've a negative record with him. But somehow the media and a prosecutor is saying we bought him. LOL. TO LOOSE?

[Antonio_]

I suggest to ban Italian teams from the international competetions, like the CL and the UEFA-Cup next year.

I don't know. Maybe. We are in a rebuilding phase where everything and everybody is about to be removed. I wouldn't mind something like that. But keep in mind there are no proofs of a single team fixing games. The only proof is the thing about Nakata.

[Intriago33]

What about last year, with Bovo touching the ball in his area and De Santis not giving us a penalty? C'mon..

P.S. You know more than me that, being a Parma fan, you're the last one in the Universe who can say a single word about anybody. Your team should have been deleted from soccer.

Maybe we should be extinct, I don't deny that, but there's a difference from being bankrupt, than to the allegations that are being made against your club.

I wondered why we got so fucked in the game vs Lecce last season, let's look at the facts:

- De Santis was the ref.
- 6 Parma players picked up bookings, Morfeo saw red in injury time for merely kicking the ball away.

the amount of players who were absent from our first-leg against Bologna, it's suprising that we only lost by a goal.

And the connection with Juventus?
Last season we have a 0-1-2 record with De Santis as our ref. So?

well if Fiorentina have "booked" the game, then they needed Parma to slip up. A coincidence? I don't think so.
isn't this the same De Santis who has been dropped from the World Cup?

I would be seriously fucked if this proves to be correct, if we was playing in B now.

Like I said, i'm not gonna dig into the mess too deep, as I was on vacation when it blew up, so I haven't followed it as much as yourself. Got enough dealing with new ownership, to care about other teams problems.

Ok, but i don't get the connection with Juventus/Moggi.

The second part is in connection with Fiorentina in this scandal.
The only Juventus inclusion in my arguement was about Parma-Juventus this season... maybe I should of made that a bit clearer.

Should Fiorentina be found guilty of "buying" their ticket to this seasons championship, then without a shadow of a doubt, they should be booted from A.

You gotta feel for the young goalkeeper, I wonder what he does now for a living? It's terrible that he's career got destroyed for the sake of Nakata's, an over-rated player, who clubs sign for his fanbase value more than his actual ability.

BTW, try keep this thread updated, as I'm sure you'll have more details living in Italy and all.

[Antonio_]

The second part is in connection with Fiorentina in this scandal.
The only Juventus inclusion in my arguement was about Parma-Juventus this season... maybe I should of made that a bit clearer.

Should Fiorentina be found guilty of "buying" their ticket to this seasons championship, then without a shadow of a doubt, they should be booted from A.

Man the investigations are about the 2004/05 season only, cause they covered only that season. I think you guys arrived 5th that year? It was the Gilardino year, if i'm correct.

You gotta feel for the young goalkeeper, I wonder what he does now for a living? It's terrible that he's career got destroyed for the sake of Nakata's, an over-rated player, who clubs sign for his fanbase value more than his actual ability.

After bein in the U21 and being a starter in Serie A with Perugia, he suffered a 2 years ban and then he played in Serie C and B, in minor teams. He ain't bad, it's just that managers were a bit skeptical about signing him cause they thought he used drugs, you know..

BTW, try keep this thread updated, as I'm sure you'll have more details living in Italy and all.

I'll try. My only problem is my bad english. If you can deal with it, i'll keep it updated.

[Intriago33]

Man the investigations are about the 2004/05 season only, cause they covered only that season. I think you guys arrived 5th that year? It was the Gilardino year, if i'm correct.

That was the 03/04 season we arrived 5th, under Prandelli.

04/05 we survived in the relegation play-off vs B-ologna. That's why I brought up the Fiorentina scandal on the last day of the season, which pushed us into the play-off.

I'll try. My only problem is my bad english. If you can deal with it, i'll keep it updated.

Yeah try keep us updated if possible. It's a bitch translating every article through freetranslation.com you never get the full gist of everything.

[Jome]

Like i told you all..

Some quick news from Italy..

- Inter and AC Milan are investigated for fixing balances of their clubs.
- Fiorentina is in big problems too, for having paid to win the last games of Serie A two years ago (he finished at 1 point from going to Serie B)
- Lazio is fucked up. Berlusconi and Galliani helped owner Lotito to illegally save the club. Nesta went to AC Milan that year.
- Roma is in troubles. They found that Roma owner changed Nakata's antidoping tests with Pagotto (2nd GK). Pagotto was not doped, while Nakata was. But they changed them. NAKATA USED/USES DRUGS, IT'S OFFICIAL. A tribunal just said it, and Roma is about to give Pagotto money back as to refund him.

They "used" Juventus' GM Moggi to make some noise, but those are the big fishes.

More coming soon.... right now it's a WAR here in Italy.

Hold on one sec, young man.
You're saying that Inter, AC Milan, Fiorentina, Lazio & Roma are all in big trouble for game fixing & tax fixing, but Juventus will be let off the hook because all the allegations against them is a big vendetta, solely created by the media to put Juve in a bad light, have them relegated, fined, jailed and locked away ??

I find that very hard to believe, with basically every media outlet (including non-Italian) naming Juventus as the main offender.
Why did Moggi resign if he was innocent, he been through allegations like these before.. ?
Why did the Juventus board resign ?
Why is the police doing razzias at Juventus players homes ??

[Antonio_]

Hold on one sec, young man.
You're saying that Inter, AC Milan, Fiorentina, Lazio & Roma are all in big trouble for game fixing & tax fixing, but Juventus will be let off the hook because all the allegations against them is a big vendetta, solely created by the media to put Juve in a bad light, have them relegated, fined, jailed and locked away ??

I find that very hard to believe, with basically every media outlet (including non-Italian) naming Juventus as the main offender.
Why did Moggi resign if he was innocent, he been through allegations like these before.. ?
Why did the Juventus board resign ?
Why is the police doing razzias at Juventus players homes ??

It all started from the doping trial Juventus had. Remember? 7 years of trial, 1 condamn, then they finally they called us 101% innocent in the second phase of the trial. Well, they started to record phone convos too, to find proofs or something. They didn't. The tribunal of Turin called us innocent about those phone calls (they actually said the material they collected wasn't even worth a trial). But somehow another tribunal, the one of Rome and the one of Naples, were investigating us too. So they asked for the transcriptions of the phone calls, they (ILLEGALLY) gave them to the papers saying them to publish them (hella illegal, i repeat), and they are now saying we fixed games, etc.. That's why Juventus is the main target: because the fixed Moggi's phone. They have more than 100.000 Moggi's convos. Only Moggi. Only Juventus. Like usual. Like they did in the doping trial. Why? Because Juventus is the most prestigious team in Italy, and if they name it on the papers, they sell papers. Just read what the journalist said in the first post: they're selling more than 50.000 units a week. I've examinated all the convos and shit they've published till now, and i can tell you straight up that there are no proofs and shit of us fixing games. But there are some calls where Moggi talks about other teams, blaming them. For example there's a call where Moggi says something like "AC Milan fixed a game with Reggina. Damn we're lucky we don't have to do this shit to win......". AC Milan was never being investigated for this. They don't care about Milan. Or, to say it correct, Milan got too many power, Berlusconi & Galliani are unstoppable. There are phone calls where they talk about Facchetti (Inter DG), and how he made pressure on Pairetto to know the refs and shit. There are convos where Moggi says Berlusconi illegally saved Lazio because he wanted Nesta and shit. There are a lot of those convos. And nothing where Moggi talks to referees, or talks about fixing games and shit. NOTHING. But the trial is against Moggi. The tribunal investigate him.

I'm not saying the whole world is to blame but us, i'm just saying that this shit is the same shit that happened with the doping trial. 7 years of investigations ONLY AGAINST JUVENTUS. No other teams were touched. Even when they had players admitting they was doped, they didn't care. They wanted to punish JUVENTUS, cause in Italy if you punish Juventus you basically punish soccer. In their minds, if you "clean" Juventus, you "clean" the whole soccer. That's why i don't accept those investigations. I've read the convos. They have nothing in their hands. And the simple fact they let the media published everything (shit even private conversations with bitches. How legal is that? Moggi is married!) is to me a proof they have nothing in their hands and they just wanna make people believe Moggi and Juventus is to be condamed.

Just wait: you'll see Juventus won't go to Serie B. It's impossible. They can't. And if they will, cause the media is blaming us from a month, it will be the biggest scandal in sport history for sure. But i'm sure they won't. They don't wanna pay refunds for us going to Serie B without proofs.

PLUS: Capello just confirmed next year he'll stay in Turin. If he did, it's another proof he knows we'll play in Serie A.

Man it's just a media/tribunal conspiracy. Prosecutors can say whatever they want, but to "win" the trial they gotta prove it. They didn't in the doping trial, they won't now.

And Moggi resigned cause they're killing him now. He quitted with soccer. His son in investigated too, he gotta take care of this shit.

[Antonio_]

P.S. Watch this video and fuck the rest: you can't buy this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWTmQEQk2SY&search=del%20piero

[Mac 10 †]

P.S. Watch this video and fuck the rest: you can't buy this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWTmQEQk2SY&search=del%20piero

he never was quite the same... 

[Boo-Yaa †]

P.S. Watch this video and fuck the rest: you can't buy this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWTmQEQk2SY&search=del%20piero

  delicious

[BJV]

Antonio I barely noticed that your a juve fan.

everyone else is quilty

[KURUPTION-81]

Antonio can u go into a bit more detail on the Nakata situation as ive never heard about this.

Ok. Premise: sorry for my english.
Premise n.2: what i'm saying is not speculation, but it's what a judge said investigating about it. Official.

In 2000 Nakata used drugs. Geronzi, the boss of Capitalia, one of the biggest bank in Italy, was the owner of both Perugia team and AS Roma team. Both the teams were so full of debts that they had to sold more than half of the team to this bank. To make it short, to fix the balances of both the teams, Geronzi chosed to acquire Nakata from Perugia to AS Roma for the record deal of 25m € (c'mon, Nakata was good, but 25m €? LMAO). Before the trade was made, Nakata had to make antidoping tests. But since he used drugs, and everybody in Perugia knew it, they changed the results of his test with the ones of another Perugia player, the young GK Pagotto (Italian U21, a promising player if you ask me). The next day Pagotto was condamned to a 2 years ban for having abused of drugs, while Nakata's test was ok. Nakata moved to Roma. There, he didnt play enought cause he was the 4th extracommunitarian player in the team, and they could have used only 3 in the pitch. But, 3 days before the crucial match between Juventus and Roma (something like a "final" match, between the two teams: who wins is the Serie A champion, you know what i mean?), somebody in the federation changed the rule, and Roma was allowed to play with 4 extracommunitarian. Nakata played. Nakata scored. AS Roma won the Serie A title.

Pagotto (the young GK) has always called himself innocent, a victim. He blamed AS Roma and Perugia. And now a judge has finally make justice, by proving both the teams fixed the test results to "save" Nakata. The guy who scored the Championship-goal.

And then Juventus is the one who cheated..........  

props for that, thanks. Do u know what drugs it was ?

[Antonio_]

Coke.

[Antonio_]

Antonio I barely noticed that your a juve fan.

everyone else is quilty

Naw, i'm a lawyer. Everybody is innocent till proven guilty to me. From Kobe to Moggi to Galliani to the most notorious criminal. I just reported a part of truth the article reported didn't mention. Roma, Inter, Lazio and Milan are investigated cause they fixed their balances. For Roma and Lazio they'll start a real trial! The Nakata-Pagotto thing is already a sentence. And the other ones are things who went out from the same phone convos the media is using to blame Moggi and Juventus. Same shit, different subjects. But they didn't even mention it. No, they ain't guilty till somebody proves it. Fuck prosecutors, i'm a lawyer, i fight them everyday..