Jay-Z Shelves Cristal At 40/40 Club, Urges Boycott

[Juronimo]

Don Jacob, eat a dick. If you can't respond intelligently to my post, don't say shit. Shallow at least came correct on his post.

The only thing that gets me is where did Jay Z Christ come from all of a sudden? For years he has denigrated the black community himself by portraying it's acceptable and "cool" males as drug dealers, pimps, and gang members. He's reduced the image of black women to mute objects of shit, almost like items you can buy at a store. Luda said on Oprah there are women that are really like that, but most women aren't. However almost every woman in a rap video is. Jay Z may not have started this but he sure as hell didn't stand against it when it was his turn to make money.

I'm far from a Jay-Z myself, but I agree with what he's doing here. I don't agree with all the endless flossing, name brand dropping shit that's been going on in rap music for the last 10 years which is why I hope rappers will learn a lesson when it comes to this shit, but I doubt it will happen. I can't disagree with your comments about Jay-Z, but agree with what he's doing there. Don't give companies your cash if they act disrespectful towards you.

Are the top guys at Crital racist? I don't know. Logic would make you think yes. They're probably also very classist and close minded, but we don't know for sure, and we certainly can't assume that saying you don't like hip hop or the mainstream hip hop community is something racist. Bill Cosby, BB King, outspoken civil rights activist Jim Brown, the NAACP, and the Nation have all stood against the poor morals and humiliation of black people that the current mainstream hip hop represents. Nobody says shit when Chuck D says Flav looks like a clown on his show, but if some middle to upper class white male said it everyone would be all over him.

Racist? I don't know. Disrespectful? Most definitely. The other thing you mention is a whole other can of worms that will take too long to discuss here. I've always believed in keeping issues that affect the black community in house and those type of issues should be discussed in house instead of in front of the media, but again, that's a whole other issue. Does hip hop portray negative stereotypes of the black community? Yes it does, no doubt about that.

It's a double standard and it's racism, and most off all it only hurts the black community. You think whites give a shit that blacks think it's okay to defend blacks against whites at any instance, or that blacks can be racist against themselves (and others) and whites can't, or that it's okay to automatically assume someone is being racist because he gives you a hard time and is of a different race. It's the blacks that live by this that end up going to jail, or getting kicked out of school, or leaving their pregnant girlfriends. Whites aren't affected by this, and if rich white America really does pull all the stops to keep blacks down then they are laughing right now, because al they have to do is let a few blacks get really rich (most of which will end up with little when it's all over) and let those blacks guide the poor blacks into man made hell. Who I truly feel for are the middle class blacks (the majority) who either get sucked in to the stret way of acting or get categorized as such, because all America gets to see are these terrible role models on TV and the whites end up thinking thats how blacks live and the impressionable young blacks end up thinking thats how blacks are supposed to live. It's God damn terrible.

I'm not defending Jay-Z's decade long flossing brigade, I'm defending Jay-Z's decision at this instance. Does it make sense to give a company your money that views your community or what you do with contempt? No. Now as far as the other issue you bring up, such as blacks being quick to claim racism, I agree, it happens, possibly frequently but we come from a place where growing up with others viewing you with contempt and disrespect since birth is going to cause you to see things a certain way, that's why many blacks are quick to claim racism, even if it's not readily apparent or even nonexistent. A good recent example of that was David Stern's dress code for NBA players that some claim was racist, even though trying to "prove" that it was actually racist would be damn near impossible. That's one example that comes to mind.

I personally don't believe there is any mass conspiracy to keep blacks down or anything of the sort. The issue of negative role models in the black community, such as the minstrel type upn comedies to the inane behavior of certain celebrities is more "our" fault than it is "their" fault for buying into it and portraying those images. However, it's easier to sell negative stereotypes than positive images. Just look at what's happened to hip hop over the last 15 years. When gangsta rap started, there was a conscious undertone to the lyrics. Early NWA, geto boys, Ice Cube, even the Chronic had shades of conciousness. However corporate america realized it was the negativity that was selling, not the conciousness so they made a business decision to promote as much negativity in the music as possible and now we end up where we're at today. There was a whole thread on it somewhere.

What it comes down to it, blaming those negative images on racism is inaccurate, it's more capitalism then anything. The best way to combat that is to use the tools of capitalism, by choosing not to give companies money that promote disrespectful images of the black community or show disrespect to the community. Don't give them their money. Besides it's not like all these rappers that boast about crystal are getting paid by crystal or any other company (versace, rolex, donna karan, dkny, armani, maybach, etc). That's why I defended Jay-Z for his decision while others mocked him. The issue is much bigger and complex than a comment by a Crystal executive and Jay-Z's decision not to patronize that business.

[Jome]

OH, HELL NO.

 After Cristal gave Hip Hop the middle finger last week Jay-Z responded by saying that he wouldn?t support the liquor any longer and will cease sales in his 40/40 establishments. So what does Louis Roederer Cristal have to say about all of this? Well of course he had to back track his statements. According to All Hip-Hop Cristal responded:

 "A house like Louis Roederer would not have existed since 1776 without being totally open and tolerant to all forms of culture and art, including the most recent musical and fashion styles which - like Hip-Hop - keep us in touch with modernity,"

 Yeah right....you got caught with your foot in your mouth. - Andreas Hale

 

OWNED.

[Shallow]

I'm far from a Jay-Z myself, but I agree with what he's doing here. I don't agree with all the endless flossing, name brand dropping shit that's been going on in rap music for the last 10 years which is why I hope rappers will learn a lesson when it comes to this shit, but I doubt it will happen. I can't disagree with your comments about Jay-Z, but agree with what he's doing there. Don't give companies your cash if they act disrespectful towards you.

If Jay Z said he was insulted as someone in Hip Hop and was boycotting it in the name of hip hop and its artistic integrity then I wouldn't have gone against Jay Z. However, as a business man I would not want the current mainstream hip hop advertising or promoting my product because I strongly disagree with the morals presented. It may or may not be good for my business but it's good for my conscience and that's what comes first. (P.S. I'm not that great a businessman). So I would defend both sides in that case, unless it comes out that it really was racial.

Racist? I don't know. Disrespectful? Most definitely. The other thing you mention is a whole other can of worms that will take too long to discuss here. I've always believed in keeping issues that affect the black community in house and those type of issues should be discussed in house instead of in front of the media, but again, that's a whole other issue. Does hip hop portray negative stereotypes of the black community? Yes it does, no doubt about that.

Sometimes exposing the evil in the public is the best way to get rid of it. Of course sometimes it just makes more evil.

I'm not defending Jay-Z's decade long flossing brigade, I'm defending Jay-Z's decision at this instance. Does it make sense to give a company your money that views your community or what you do with contempt? No. Now as far as the other issue you bring up, such as blacks being quick to claim racism, I agree, it happens, possibly frequently but we come from a place where growing up with others viewing you with contempt and disrespect since birth is going to cause you to see things a certain way, that's why many blacks are quick to claim racism, even if it's not readily apparent or even nonexistent. A good recent example of that was David Stern's dress code for NBA players that some claim was racist, even though trying to "prove" that it was actually racist would be damn near impossible. That's one example that comes to mind.

Do many blacks learn racism because of racism? Sure, I won't argue that, but I'm certain that many blacks are also taught to look for and see racism and that is what I'm trying to show here. With people like Jay Z automatically assuming racism it leads many young blacks not exposed to direct racism to look for similar instances and find direct racism when it isn't there (of course sometimes it is there). Other's are taught it, usually indirectly by their parents or parent, at a younger age or later by University speakers and groups, who I think brainwash these kids. I live in a black area of Toronto Canada and I see it clearly. Of the two parent middle class blacks I know who where not from the ghetto side over 90% would claim they never experienced racism in school, work, or in public here in Toronto (Toronto is 60% to 70% non-white. A whole mix of everything here), but once they start mingling with the ghetto types the 90% drops a bit, and the ones that go to University and end up joining black groups end up coming back with new views. All of a sudden they notice things from the past that they now see as racist. Very indirect things that sound ridiculous and they go and look for it elsewhere.

Now the ghetto kids learn to see whites as the enemy very early. Most of the teachers are white women here and the bus drivers and store owners white men and they get to see their former teenage mothers defend the kids at all costs rather than admit to the enemy that their child was wrong. If I got in trouble at school it was always my fault as far as my father was concerned and I learned quickly to respect authority. I can see the difference in the ghetto kids raised by irresponsible parents and the ones raised by responsible ones and I also see the difference in how much racism each see. I understand how blacks who went through the 50s and before come up with their views because what they saw was undeniably real. What most people today see it not certain racism and if they are not taught it they won't assume it. It's not Jay Z's fault but in this instance he is part of the problem.

I personally don't believe there is any mass conspiracy to keep blacks down or anything of the sort. The issue of negative role models in the black community, such as the minstrel type upn comedies to the inane behavior of certain celebrities is more "our" fault than it is "their" fault for buying into it and portraying those images. However, it's easier to sell negative stereotypes than positive images. Just look at what's happened to hip hop over the last 15 years. When gangsta rap started, there was a conscious undertone to the lyrics. Early NWA, geto boys, Ice Cube, even the Chronic had shades of conciousness. However corporate america realized it was the negativity that was selling, not the conciousness so they made a business decision to promote as much negativity in the music as possible and now we end up where we're at today. There was a whole thread on it somewhere.

Now if the black community as a whole took a strong stand against those blacks that are denigrating the people then most of the middle class whites wouldn't touch it, publicly anyway, and the business would have to change, but as long as most of the black community will defend their "brothers" just because of their race then the whites who spend the money to buy the albums that makes the business, and watch the TV shows that bring the ratings will not see it for what it is. Even Oprah back peddled from her statement and Bill Cosby gets constantly attacked by the rap community. It would take some like Jim Brown or Chuck D to get national exposure and speak out against it, because both are very respected by both sides of the black community and both have fallen victim being part of the problem once before. However slight it may have been. This won't end the problems in America but it'll be a good step in the right direction.

What it comes down to it, blaming those negative images on racism is inaccurate, it's more capitalism then anything. The best way to combat that is to use the tools of capitalism, by choosing not to give companies money that promote disrespectful images of the black community or show disrespect to the community. Don't give them their money. Besides it's not like all these rappers that boast about crystal are getting paid by crystal or any other company (versace, rolex, donna karan, dkny, armani, maybach, etc). That's why I defended Jay-Z for his decision while others mocked him. The issue is much bigger and complex than a comment by a Crystal executive and Jay-Z's decision not to patronize that business.

You also have to see that Jay Z has probably profited more from promoting these brands than those brands have. One of Jay's main aspects was being the high class cool rapper who has the finest things and he used that image to make himself a star. So while he can boycott what he wants these days if he had boycotted it from the start he may not be where he is today. It wasn't just Jay Z promoting these products it was Jay Z promoting Jay Z.