West Coast Movement

[Tanjential]

So I've been making some cultural observations lately and wanted to share some thoughts on what i see as the over-arcing ideas dominating the west coast and culture in general right now.


Check it out, 8 out of 10 years of the 1950's there was a conservative rule(republican president Eisenhower). As a result of this, a counterculture(the beat generation) began burgeoning in the outskirts and shadows of society. Civil rights progress started happening midway through the decade. The 60's in reaction to the conformity to the 50's saw a cultural progression of admirable accomplishment. Rock n roll was just under 20 years old and the subject matter of the music became increasingly sophisticated and "the homies on the streets was all about PEACE"  LA and San Francisco were cultural hubs of the counterculture and artistic development that was sweeping western civilization.


8 out of 10 years between 2000 and 2010 there's conservative republican rule. I heard that the black community is set to get down with activity since dude got shot walking out of his bachelor party by the NYPD, a 92 year old woman was gunned down by police almost just as recently and people are STILL legitimately mad about Florida 2000, perhaps civil rights progress will continue? Not to mention gay civil rights parallels...

                      Rap is just over 20 years old and the subject matter is ready for change. cases in point: The Hyphy movement(doesn't that on a purely sonic level remind your mind of a phrase known as the hippie movemet?) These are gangster rappers that are influenced by hippie culture because of proximity to San Francisco: They pimp hoes and pop caps but they also take hallucinogenic mushrooms, grow dread locks and discuss picking up specific danky ass strains from white dudes in humboldt-and the subject matter (especially with mac dre) is more about positivity, having a good time, trip drugs, weed, non monogamous sexuality as opposed to violence.  Also, Bay rappers, due to how close they are to san francisco  have a lot more cultural tolerance: Spanish is used almost as much as ebonics in the bay rap scene, all races of people are included and accepted and Bay area rappers even have slightly more of a tolerance for gay people than most gangsta rappers-Bay rap is actually integrating culture and not just crime into their culture. Down in LA, Snoop has a PEACE conference-cuts songs from the Blue carpet treatment cause they're too violent("murder these murderers") and the coast is clear-no beef all up and down the leftside of america-the first step towards real success.

Check it out, when my interest in rap heavily  in 2002, I got into classic rock real heavily: Doors, beatles, hendrix, zeppelin, bob dylan,velvet underground, patti smith, pink floyd,clapton, the smiths etc. and from there there was modern rock nirvana, tool, a perfect circle, mars volta, at the drive in, lcd soundsystem,elliot smith etc., to even older stuff like blues and jazz etc. all the way back up to modern underground jazzy ass hip hop like atmosphere and such....west coast rap didn't speak to me like it used to.....then I got back from my last trip to san francisco and my friend sam (the guy who first showed me the basic shit like Biggie and The Chronic) is bumping this rapper talking about havin' dreads, being a "stoner" and eating shrooms. I was like wtf? This sounds like me and my friends on a fucking camping trip...this shit is funky too.....I've heard a lot of rappers talk about smokin' weed, but this cat said 'stoner'....This guy had hung out with white guys and smoked too, I could tell, the way he talked....gangster but intelligent, cultured -"If shit gets slow, we can hit the sko"-Bored in ca? Go to Frisco...I could relate to this shit and it was just as g-funky and gangster as any other WC rap I'd ever heard(not to mention he's a very clever an d funky rapper) and I was told it was Mac Dre.
              So I got heavy into Mac Dre because I could relate to the frisco hippieness of thizz and hyphy and a few more weeks into this interest I began to miss daz,kurupt, snoop , the pound and the other funky cali cats I used to spend my musical time with and I've been busting that old shit out lately and I see shit like snoop working with crooked I, DP reuniting, peace movements, trip drugs and I know the next decade will see a cultural backlash to this conservative rule and rap is as old now about as rock was when the 60's happened. Doin' it big on the west coast. and I plan to be here for it.
          I know some of the ideas I'm getting at are far fetched but I mean do you see what the culture is getting at? it's not anything really calculable yet...just an undertone, a current, a trend or a tendency you dig?


any thoughts anyone?
-T

[Tanjential]

Also two more throughts:

Snoop's HILARIOUS comment about "Man we NEED to be making that break up to make up record. Nobody wants to hear dre and a bunch of niggaz from the east coast talkin' about being sober." provoked a thought-I remember a while back reading that detox is going to be like a play or a movie and anyone on the album has to be playing a role of some kind and i thought that was on some Next shit in a cool way. That said, perhaps Dre is taking so long because he wants to shift the nature of popular content in rap lyrics. Perhaps he wants to propagate positive ideas like working hard, education, peace etc. and if anyone could make being a good person(becauseif rappers glorified that, you bet your ass the ghetto would be a little better at least) a popular idea it's dre, and perhaps he's taking his sweet ass time to do that because if you're gonna be delivering the same message that basically elementary school and sesame street is you BEST to be coming with some HEAT. But I think it's doable. I mean, I'm sure dre knows he could call 213, dpgc, and Em and make a funky ass hardcore rap record but maybe that ain't what it's about? What does Bishop lamont talk about? I've yet to hear him, maybe that will be a good measurement device?

2) As far as a countercultural movement in the next decade-I feel if rappers and black culture could get over its stigma's about gays and the homophobia then gays and blacks could make amazing strides together for civil rights. 60 years ago, mainstream society said it was wrong for blacks tio marry whites-now it's a no-brainer to us that that is racist as fuck. Believe it or not rap community, gays getting married is going to be looked at the exact same way 60 years from now and that's real talk. Urban culture has  big hang up in letting everyone know how straight they are but you don't necessarily have to be gay to understand that people came to California to do what the fuck they want to do. That's why i can smoke blunts in the front yard, or in the parking lot at the local starbucks where a gay dude just gave me a free ice water to put in the bong that I'm packing the roach in. feel me?

the coast is clear-T

[KURUPTION-81]

Not to turn this into another Detox thread but id love dre to make the album a movie, similar to what sticky fingaz did but with a full blown orchestra.

Some interesting points overall, i just ordered my first mac dre albums. Hopefully i will be as impressed as you were.

[Westcoastfanatic]

Orchestra sound is cool but sum people including Dre already did that. The end of "Been there done that" right?
Puffy did it with "Come with me"(on Godzilla soundtrack) and Cube did it with "Fuck Dying"(War Disc).
I want Dre to create a sick new innovative original sound again.

[Tanjential]

which Mac dre did you order? because I would't go so far as to say it's all dope (there are very few artists you could say it's all dope IMO).

Which sticky fingaz shit are you talking about? It's weird, I'm a pretty well versed west coast head, but I more or less missed the last 4 years.
Since I'm asking such a question, btw, does DR still own 2pac's shit? Cause the other day i saw a 2pac album at Virgin that had eminem producing it and it looked like it had nothing to do with DR.

I hope Dre will innovate as well.

-T

[big mat]

3 last pac albums that where made are pure trash, if u dont believe me listen to them yourself

sticky fingaz (of onyx) made an album 4-5 years ago and that album is like a movie, it's a story and every song is a chapter of dat story. I recommand you to listen to this album. One of my favorite, a unique album. Beats are great, flow is great, concept is crazy, sticky is crazy as usual. a must.

[Tanjential]

what is the sticky album called?

I wasn't asking about the quality of the pAc stuff, i was just asking if DR is involved.

Also, in the late 60's cats started to say 'rock is dead' and songs were made around that time revolving around this theme. Rap is just a little older than rock was around that time and cats are saying similar things. it's not that hip hop is dead, it's that some people's tastes are elevating to the point where something more metacognitive and conscious is needed.

rap is learning the lessons that rock did around this same time. history repeats itself,ain't nothing new under the sun.

-T

[big mat]

it's not that hip hop is dead, it's that some people's tastes are elevating to the point where something more metacognitive and conscious is needed.
-T

ok man...

hey, sticky's album is :

[Tanjential]

what do you mean "ok man"? People like to poke fun when people speak in terms of ideas and things that are completely metaphysical in nature but what don we have but ideas really? All I mean is, people see that much of the genre has gone stagnant so they declare it dead. it's not necessarily dead, there's still gonna be a dope ass artist every once in a while but over-all it'll be stagnant....juuuust like rock. Like I said, rap is getting to be about the age where this exact same shit happened to rock.

-T

[KURUPTION-81]

which Mac dre did you order? because I would't go so far as to say it's all dope (there are very few artists you could say it's all dope IMO).

Young Black Brotha
Ronald Dregan Dreganomics

[Tanjential]

those are both good. dreganomics especially. get at me once you've listened to them, let me know what you think.

-T

[J$crILLa]

got some good points in there, just a long read

[KURUPTION-81]

those are both good. dreganomics especially. get at me once you've listened to them, let me know what you think.

-T

will do, gotta wait till xmas day to hear them 

[XL Middleton]

well no offense to anyone but damn thought-provoking threads like this rarely come along so damn doesnt anybody have anything to say in response? i for one can see all the comparisons that have been drawn and im glad that somebody can see the value and the positivity in making party music, even though it isn't deep or introspective necessarily, it's still better then saying let's go sell crack and shoot people. i think rap in general is on the verge of a major shift and there will be a major movement of people who are trying to make music with substance or at the very least with less of a negative message. once rap music shifted from being a tool of rebellion to a tool of corporate America, it had to get to this all time low point in order for things to get better. like they say when youre at the bottom theres nowhere to go but up.

on the other hand the west coast is not as united as you've said, in my opinion. is snoop really working with crooked i now? i havent heard anything about that...one problem is that here on the west theres not much money floating around in the music industry so everybody has adopted a sort of "every man for himself" mentality as far as snatching up the few crumbs that are available...you cant knock it because everyone has bills to pay but at the same time its really divided the west coast as a whole. hate to say it, but the coast isn't clear as you've stated. there's still a lot of little shots being taken at various artists, so many that it adds up to one big situation i think.

all in all youve made some really strong and intelligent points and as far as the ones i dont agree with as far as what's happening now, i hope they do happen soon.

[Tanjential]

Thank you XL, for giving my thread a thoughtful response. Yeah snoop and crooked I are on the one blood west coast remix with GAME, EXACTLY the cat i discuss playing such a role in my Game thread where I wrote a shitload as well.

and yes, you jave some points on how it's not quite there yet, I was exaggerating to make the point clear, but I like to think things are heading that way. I read things that make me feel more positive about it all the time.

-T