Steve Nash....

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Was Magic Johnson EVER a good defensive player?   Fuck no.

LMAO. Never post about basketball again. The end.


PS... Dirk plays defense. He might not be the best defender, but his defense has improved from when he stepped in the league, thus pushing him to an MVP-caliber player...If he still ONLY played one end like he did when he first arrived, no way he'd be MVP material. Still ROFLMFAO@comparing Magic's defense to Nash's...

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Showtime Lakers were an EXCELLENT defensive team, PLANT's basketball-discussion pass has officially been revoked:

Magic may not be as active as Michael Cooper or Jordan (on the defensive end), but he is among the top ten in career steals and has led the league twice. Part of Magic's defense that hasn't been recognized much since he entered the league is his height. At 6'9", smaller guards can't easily lob passes into the post or shoot over him, forcing extra perimeter passing and repositioning of the post men. Also, Magic can play good defense against a lot of forwards in the league, which allows the Lakers to play three guards without suffering against taller teams. He also has a tremendous advantage on defensive rebounds, which has translated into plenty of fast breaks on the offensive end. Magic's height advantage sort of makes his defense 'defense by default', but that is mostly what Mark Eaton's defense is and he is the most dominant defensive force in the league.

http://www.rawbw.com/~deano/hoopla/lalp1.html

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

all you guys who act like Nash aint all that, you need to name me one PG in the league (beside J Kidd) who would be doing what Nash is doing, has done....There is no one.  No other PG can make those kind of sneaky passes that Nash makes for all his teamates to get those easy buckets....Amare and Marion are spoonfed at least half of there points every game....Its wack wehn NIK sits here and says its all about the system, that fn bullshit....Nash IS the system.  If J Kidd was in Pheonix he might put up those kind of numbers, and If he won MVP, I would give him his props, no problem....Nash is a better shooter and offensive player than Kidd tho.  22 and 12 is pretty sick numbers, and even better when you are the sole reason why your team is winning games.

Oh Jesus!! This is getting personal, i'm starting to get tired of this discussion. You both grow up: we're in a public forum, not on the phone! Man i already told you WHY it's all about the system. I wrote you stats, not impressions. It's the (let's call it with the right name) "Mike D'Antoni's system" (i know him cause he played/coached here in Italy for half of his life) where everybody gotta run to give the PG an easy option to make a pass or a shot. Mike was like Nash, as a player. The same type of player. Actually a better defender, but we're talking about points and assists here. That said, i personally wrote Nash is STILL probably the best PG in the league, or a top3 selection for sure. So i'm not saying he sucks. I'm just saying 50% of the reason why he's averaging those numbers is because of his skills, and 50% because of "Mike's system". He's not Stock, no Magic, no Kidd. Matter of fact he had a good but not impressing career before Mike (D'Antoni). But he's the perfect player in the perfect place, and yes, he's fundamental to his team. But Jesus, y'all are acting like if he's really the best player in the league!!! Nik is right: he's not even the best player in his team! He's a great PG for Phoenix, and he led the team to good records and shit.

Kobe is different. Kobe is BY FAR the best SG AND player of the league. Who already won 3 titles, and who's trying to prove he can do it again without Shaq. In 10 years people will talk about Kobe, not about Nash. Nash will be forgotten as soon as he'll retire, cause he ain't in the group of the best PG ever. No way. Like i said he's no Stock, no Thomas, no Magic, no Kidd, no.. (big list). Kobe, on the other hand, is being compared to Jordan since his first day in the League, and even if he's still not on his level, after he'll retire people will start to compare young players to him AND Jordan. Cause he's one of the best SG ever. That's the big deal. That a player like Kobe will probably get no MVP trophies in his career, while a player like Nash can win 3 in a row. He's not bad. He's amazing. But.... But Dallas proved you can have a great/wonderful season without him too.

Dude, don't everrrrrr take PLANT seriously again in basketball discussion, he compared Magic Johnson's defense to Steve Nash's ...That just goes to show you where he's placed on the basketball knowledge chart, and it's not too high now, is it? He'll never understand what you're saying, cuz he's Canadian and has a hard-on for Nash that will never go away...PeACe

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

^Don't act like a dick. It doesn't suit you.

LOL didn't you see the smile?

Of course I did, that's why I said what I said. You were being a dick. But you're usually such an unconfronting, understanding, self-conscious nice guy. So I told you that being a dick doesn't suit your image, so you should just get rid of that dick-being-behaviour for your own good. I was just trying to give advice.

Ok. Let me try to add something more interesting to the discussion. Let me try. Let me explain you a pair of things about Nash's stats. It's math. The Suns are a 112.1 points per game (best in the League, obviously) team. Well.. to average almost 12 assists there shouldn't be that impressive, since he's doing it from 3 years in a row. He averaged 5.8 assists per game before he returned back to Phoenix 3 years ago, and all of a sudden he's starting to average 11+. Isn't it suspicious to you? They have 3 players in the top 30 of the League in assists (the other two are Barbosa and Diaw, not exactly Magic & Thomas) and they average an unreal 26.44 assists per game (best in the League, obviously). Yes, he's dishing the ball very well, but Phoenix system helps. He's averaging 11.7 assists out of 26.44 total assists of his team. It's the 44.2% of the team. Chris Paul, since i named him in a previous post, is averaging 8.9 assists out of 16.8 of his team. Which means he's making almost 53% of the assists of his team. That's more impressive to me. And we can do the same funny game about points. Nash is making 21 points out of 112.1 (18.7%) while Chris Paul is making 18.2 points out of 91.5 (19.9%). See? Math is funny sometimes. Who clowned me about Paul being more MVP (most valuable player) than Nash?

I did and i'll clown you again. Throw all these numbers in my face blah blah blah. IF you wanna go by numbers Efficiecny says Kevin Martin is the best 2 gaurd in the NBA and we know that isnt true. If you think Paul is as good as Nash right now, maybe you should start watching a little more. Give Paul a few more years..

Speaking of "watching more", you thought Kenyon Martin, Keith Van Horn, and Kerry Kittles were still on the Nets...LOL.

["THE" MoSav]

^Don't act like a dick. It doesn't suit you.

LOL didn't you see the smile?

Of course I did, that's why I said what I said. You were being a dick. But you're usually such an unconfronting, understanding, self-conscious nice guy. So I told you that being a dick doesn't suit your image, so you should just get rid of that dick-being-behaviour for your own good. I was just trying to give advice.

Ok. Let me try to add something more interesting to the discussion. Let me try. Let me explain you a pair of things about Nash's stats. It's math. The Suns are a 112.1 points per game (best in the League, obviously) team. Well.. to average almost 12 assists there shouldn't be that impressive, since he's doing it from 3 years in a row. He averaged 5.8 assists per game before he returned back to Phoenix 3 years ago, and all of a sudden he's starting to average 11+. Isn't it suspicious to you? They have 3 players in the top 30 of the League in assists (the other two are Barbosa and Diaw, not exactly Magic & Thomas) and they average an unreal 26.44 assists per game (best in the League, obviously). Yes, he's dishing the ball very well, but Phoenix system helps. He's averaging 11.7 assists out of 26.44 total assists of his team. It's the 44.2% of the team. Chris Paul, since i named him in a previous post, is averaging 8.9 assists out of 16.8 of his team. Which means he's making almost 53% of the assists of his team. That's more impressive to me. And we can do the same funny game about points. Nash is making 21 points out of 112.1 (18.7%) while Chris Paul is making 18.2 points out of 91.5 (19.9%). See? Math is funny sometimes. Who clowned me about Paul being more MVP (most valuable player) than Nash?

I did and i'll clown you again. Throw all these numbers in my face blah blah blah. IF you wanna go by numbers Efficiecny says Kevin Martin is the best 2 gaurd in the NBA and we know that isnt true. If you think Paul is as good as Nash right now, maybe you should start watching a little more. Give Paul a few more years..

Speaking of "watching more", you thought Kenyon Martin, Keith Van Horn, and Kerry Kittles were still on the Nets...LOL.

alright NIK, i told you i was just playing around with it..You dont know me if you think i think that 
Trust me i have always thought KMART was overrated, and people tried to act like hed put the nuggets over the top..LOL!

[Antonio_]

^Don't act like a dick. It doesn't suit you.

LOL didn't you see the smile?

Of course I did, that's why I said what I said. You were being a dick. But you're usually such an unconfronting, understanding, self-conscious nice guy. So I told you that being a dick doesn't suit your image, so you should just get rid of that dick-being-behaviour for your own good. I was just trying to give advice.

Ok. Let me try to add something more interesting to the discussion. Let me try. Let me explain you a pair of things about Nash's stats. It's math. The Suns are a 112.1 points per game (best in the League, obviously) team. Well.. to average almost 12 assists there shouldn't be that impressive, since he's doing it from 3 years in a row. He averaged 5.8 assists per game before he returned back to Phoenix 3 years ago, and all of a sudden he's starting to average 11+. Isn't it suspicious to you? They have 3 players in the top 30 of the League in assists (the other two are Barbosa and Diaw, not exactly Magic & Thomas) and they average an unreal 26.44 assists per game (best in the League, obviously). Yes, he's dishing the ball very well, but Phoenix system helps. He's averaging 11.7 assists out of 26.44 total assists of his team. It's the 44.2% of the team. Chris Paul, since i named him in a previous post, is averaging 8.9 assists out of 16.8 of his team. Which means he's making almost 53% of the assists of his team. That's more impressive to me. And we can do the same funny game about points. Nash is making 21 points out of 112.1 (18.7%) while Chris Paul is making 18.2 points out of 91.5 (19.9%). See? Math is funny sometimes. Who clowned me about Paul being more MVP (most valuable player) than Nash?

I did and i'll clown you again. Throw all these numbers in my face blah blah blah. IF you wanna go by numbers Efficiecny says Kevin Martin is the best 2 gaurd in the NBA and we know that isnt true. If you think Paul is as good as Nash right now, maybe you should start watching a little more. Give Paul a few more years..

Why you want me to repeat the same thing over and over again? I already replied to you 20-25 posts ago. I'll just re-quote myself.

Bad english. No, i'm not saying Paul has done more than Nash in his career or that he's a better PG. Obviously he's not. I'm saying i don't see a reason to give a trophy to the Most Valuable player, since for example Paul is very important for the Hornets, and without him the Hornets are basically a lottery team. So what's the point selecting an MVP? MVP for which team? And why the Suns and not the Bulls, or the Kings, or the Hornets. Artest is fundamental for the Kings. Without him the Kings are a lottery team. With him they are a playoff team. So why Nash and not Artest? I simply don't see a reason to give it to the "M.V.P.". I'd rater give a trophy to the best player in the league (i mean the one who has had the best season). But the "M.V.P." thing is stupid. Wade (and his friends in black and white) is as important for his team than Nash. It's pointless to say Nash is more important for his own team. Biased. Stupid. Let's argue about who's the best player and about who's having a better season. That's more interesting to me.

Please add something interesting to the discussion and don't repeat always the same shit. It's boring.

P.S. You clowned nobody but yourself, boy. Grow up!

["THE" MoSav]

^^guess i didnt read close enough 
you got me doggy +1

[Antonio_]

I was just trying to prove that stats can be read in different ways, man. You can see 21+12 and say "damn, MVP!!!". But you can also go a little bit deeper asking yourself "why".
Don't let the stats control your mind. You americans love them too much. It's just stats.
Like you said Martin ain't the best SG in the league.

["THE" MoSav]

I was just trying to prove that stats can be read in different ways, man. You can see 21+12 and say "damn, MVP!!!". But you can also go a little bit deeper asking yourself "why".
Don't let the stats control your mind. You americans love them too much. It's just stats.
Like you said Martin ain't the best SG in the league.

i dont let stats control my mind, i just thought you said Paul was better then Nash which i would still disagree with, not cuz of stats, cuz ive seen em both play...But stats do matter, you cant say they dont, however stats dont tell the whole story...

[Antonio_]

They are important. But if you take them really "so" seriously then analize them deeper, like i did. If you're gonna give the MVP trophy to the most important player for his team judging only the stats of the top players then judge them correctly, like i did. Stats says that Paul makes more assists in percentage for NO than Nash does for the Suns (i mean total assists/player assists), and he does more points too. So to say Nash is more decisive for the Suns than Paul is for the Hornets is statistically wrong. Get it? SO..... what i'm saying is that:

1) the MVP trophy itself is bullshit. They gave it to Nash but they could have given it to at least 2-3 other players.
2) the only one i take seriously is the NBA Finals one, cause you don't choose a team, but a player from the winning team.
2) stats don't tell 100% the truth.

["THE" MoSav]

They are important. But if you take them really "so" seriously then analize them deeper, like i did. If you're gonna give the MVP trophy to the most important player for his team judging only the stats of the top players then judge them correctly, like i did. Stats says that Paul makes more assists in percentage for NO than Nash does for the Suns (i mean total assists/player assists), and he does more points too. So to say Nash is more decisive for the Suns than Paul is for the Hornets is statistically wrong. Get it? SO..... what i'm saying is that:

1) the MVP trophy itself is bullshit. They gave it to Nash but they could have given it to at least 2-3 other players.
2) the only one i take seriously is the NBA Finals one, cause you don't choose a team, but a player from the winning team.
2) stats don't tell 100% the truth.

you are right 
already said that!

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

I'm glad Mosav and Antonio can debate in a logical way, I wish everyone was like that...7even has also impressed me with his maturity in this topic.

[PLANT]

this is for you NIK

http://www.nba.com/features/player_rankings_061212.html

at least Kobe is ahead of LeBron (for now), that oughta make ya happy

 

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

this is for you NIK

http://www.nba.com/features/player_rankings_061212.html

at least Kobe is ahead of LeBron (for now), that oughta make ya happy

 

LOL...We already know the NBA has a boner for Nash, you're not saying anything.

[PLANT]

this is for you NIK

http://www.nba.com/features/player_rankings_061212.html

at least Kobe is ahead of LeBron (for now), that oughta make ya happy

 

LOL...We already know the NBA has a boner for Nash, you're not saying anything.

You say the same shit about D Wade.  Its getting old, and tiring.  Give props and respect where its due.  Dont be a hater.