For those who think Kobe should've won MVP..........

[Don Jacob]

It's so easy to blame Kobe. But you should remember that the coach of that team was Phil Jackson, and he wasn't able enought with his "zen" to make peace between the two (let's say three). And it was Jerry Buss who chosed not to re-sign Phil Jackson and to trade Shaq, while Kobe was an unrestricted Free Agent. It was been Buss who chosed Kobe over Shaq. And probably Kobe over Phil Jackson. So he's the one to blame, if you wanna blame someone. But i think he did the right decision. It was fucked up they had to reach that point, but at that point they had to continue with Kobe imho.

i do blame jerry buss, a few years ago i believe that's what i did. but a couple of people called sacrelig' on me for doubt the "all mighty knowing"  jerry buss. dude is a great guy, and can be a smart business man, but he let personal feelings interfer with business here.

you don't let phil jackson walk out like that :: cough cough:: chicago bulls
you don't let shaq go :: cough cough :: 05-06 championship
you don't do all this just to keep kobe
then you really don't do all this to keep kobe then do as you guys are saying "surround him with d-leaguers" (i  dont' really believe this but i'm integrating thoughts)

management FUCKED UP! whether you're a laker fan such as me or you're a laker fan such as NIK. no matter what fence you're on ,you have to admit Management fucked up.

[Antonio_]

If Jordan wouldn't have retired, they would've likely won 8 in a row which would've rivaled the Celtics.

If that bitch didn't blame Kobe of raping her (note: he didn't), Kobe would've been the most loved "kid" by the NBA, their new Jordan, and he would've won at least an MVP, maybe two (2003 and 2005). Plus without that rape trial he would've been the most publicized, the most respected, and people (and exp. the media) would've blamed Shaq for being a fat ass instead that Kobe. Life is full of "if....". You gotta deal with them.

[Don Jacob]

no.

[Antonio_]

Maybe. Who knows. Life is full of "If....". Like.... "If Malone didn't injury his foot in the Finals?". He was the key player for us on the defensive end, and his injury played a great role in our defeat. What if the Lakers won their 4th title? With Malone and Payton playing another season or two? And with Shaq staying in the club just to win a couple of more rings?

[teecee]

I agree with Jrome about one thing:  If Kobe could've deferred to that egomaniac Shaq a little bit longer, the Lakers would've won 3 more titles and Kobe would have at least 2 playoff MVP's, and maybe a couple regular season ones too.   

[Antonio_]

I agree with Jrome about one thing:  If Kobe could've deferred to that egomaniac Shaq a little bit longer, the Lakers would've won 3 more titles and Kobe would have at least 2 playoff MVP's, and maybe a couple regular season ones too.

Man that foot broken by Malone played a great role imho. They did what they did because they lost the title imho. So they felt like they had to try a new adventure again. Kobe was basically blaming Shaq, and Shaq was basically blaming Kobe. The Pistons winning that title said the very last word to the relationship of Kobe and Shaq.

Anyway yeah, Kobe should have accepted Shaq as the leader a little bit more, i do agree.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

^^Jordan wouldn't have made it to that position to begin with if Kwame Brown was his starting center.

lol the bulls had bill wenington/luc longly.....WTF??

Wow....You didn't get that, did you? Check Kwame+Jordan's history.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Jordan and Pippen won all those championships (and would have won more had Jordan not bailed out for 2 years in his absolute prime) because EVERYONE knew Jordan was top dog.  There was NO debate - Scottie knew it, everyone on the team knew it, everyone in the NBA knew it, every one of the fans knew it.  Even fucking Dennis Rodman, who was a complete disaster everywhere he went (post Detroit in his early career) fell in line and never dared cross MJ.

The Lakers would have won several more championships if there wasn't a power struggle between Shaq and Kobe.  You can't just blame one guy, you have to blame them both.  They both have massive ego's.  But look at what each guy has accomplished since the trade - Kobe failed to make the playoffs and then was out in the 1st round the last two years.  Shaq went to the conference finals, won a championship, and then went out in the 1st round.  Shaq's probably ok with how everything played out, Kobe's probably not.

You guys don't think that Kobe ever thinks to himself "had I known my role and continued deferring to Shaq and not undermining him, I could prolly have a couple more rings".  A rational person would, but Kobe wanted to be top dog and didn't want to defer to anyone.  You make your bed, now you have to sleep in it.

You realize Shaq went to Miami and only won when he deferred to Wade, correct? You realize the Lakers were losing WITH both of them when Kobe deferred to an out-of-shape, declining Shaq against coaches will, because Shaq wouldn't (to quote him) "play defense, or grab rebounds" if the offense didn't run through him, correct? There goes your "arguments"...

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

-alll of that is kobe's problem he's too concerned about HIS legacy.

You just pin-pointed Shaq's biggest problem. He has no loyalty, he's all about himself...Even YOU can see this. He didn't wanna fade out, he wanted to go out with a bang, and he felt like that would be impossible with Kobe taking over the spotlight...

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Anyway yeah, Kobe should have accepted Shaq as the leader a little bit more, i do agree.

He did. He never complained about Shaq leading the way, he just wanted Shaq to get in shape and stop being so lazy in the season if he was gunna lead the team. Kobe has work ethic. It's hard to endure a man like Shaq, who hurts his toe and takes months off, leading your way...

[Antonio_]

I know, but with him (and everybody else) in the team he had a legit chance to win other 2-3 rings.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

^Yup...Too bad Shaq couldn't do it.

[jeromechickenbone]

Jordan and Pippen won all those championships (and would have won more had Jordan not bailed out for 2 years in his absolute prime) because EVERYONE knew Jordan was top dog.  There was NO debate - Scottie knew it, everyone on the team knew it, everyone in the NBA knew it, every one of the fans knew it.  Even fucking Dennis Rodman, who was a complete disaster everywhere he went (post Detroit in his early career) fell in line and never dared cross MJ.

The Lakers would have won several more championships if there wasn't a power struggle between Shaq and Kobe.  You can't just blame one guy, you have to blame them both.  They both have massive ego's.  But look at what each guy has accomplished since the trade - Kobe failed to make the playoffs and then was out in the 1st round the last two years.  Shaq went to the conference finals, won a championship, and then went out in the 1st round.  Shaq's probably ok with how everything played out, Kobe's probably not.

You guys don't think that Kobe ever thinks to himself "had I known my role and continued deferring to Shaq and not undermining him, I could prolly have a couple more rings".  A rational person would, but Kobe wanted to be top dog and didn't want to defer to anyone.  You make your bed, now you have to sleep in it.

You realize Shaq went to Miami and only won when he deferred to Wade, correct? You realize the Lakers were losing WITH both of them when Kobe deferred to an out-of-shape, declining Shaq against coaches will, because Shaq wouldn't (to quote him) "play defense, or grab rebounds" if the offense didn't run through him, correct? There goes your "arguments"...

LMFAO!!  You obviously don't know shit about basketball.  The Lakers were losing with Shaq & Kobe?!?  They lost to the fucking Pistons in the Finals!  It beats the living shit out of what the Lakers have been doing since he left.  Kobe was better off deferring to fat and lazy Shaq.  But he didn't want to do that, he had to be top dog and now his team sucks ass. 

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Jordan and Pippen won all those championships (and would have won more had Jordan not bailed out for 2 years in his absolute prime) because EVERYONE knew Jordan was top dog.  There was NO debate - Scottie knew it, everyone on the team knew it, everyone in the NBA knew it, every one of the fans knew it.  Even fucking Dennis Rodman, who was a complete disaster everywhere he went (post Detroit in his early career) fell in line and never dared cross MJ.

The Lakers would have won several more championships if there wasn't a power struggle between Shaq and Kobe.  You can't just blame one guy, you have to blame them both.  They both have massive ego's.  But look at what each guy has accomplished since the trade - Kobe failed to make the playoffs and then was out in the 1st round the last two years.  Shaq went to the conference finals, won a championship, and then went out in the 1st round.  Shaq's probably ok with how everything played out, Kobe's probably not.

You guys don't think that Kobe ever thinks to himself "had I known my role and continued deferring to Shaq and not undermining him, I could prolly have a couple more rings".  A rational person would, but Kobe wanted to be top dog and didn't want to defer to anyone.  You make your bed, now you have to sleep in it.

You realize Shaq went to Miami and only won when he deferred to Wade, correct? You realize the Lakers were losing WITH both of them when Kobe deferred to an out-of-shape, declining Shaq against coaches will, because Shaq wouldn't (to quote him) "play defense, or grab rebounds" if the offense didn't run through him, correct? There goes your "arguments"...

LMFAO!!  You obviously don't know shit about basketball.  The Lakers were losing with Shaq & Kobe?!?  They lost to the fucking Pistons in the Finals!  It beats the living shit out of what the Lakers have been doing since he left.  Kobe was better off deferring to fat and lazy Shaq.  But he didn't want to do that, he had to be top dog and now his team sucks ass. 

They lost the year before that as well, "basketball fan"...So they brought in 2 hall of famers and still couldn't win with Shaq "leading" the way. Lakers were not better off. Shaq was acting ridiculous...We'd be doomed had we given Shaq that extreme contract he demanded. At least now we have something to build on, with the best player in the game leading the way.

[jeromechickenbone]

Jordan and Pippen won all those championships (and would have won more had Jordan not bailed out for 2 years in his absolute prime) because EVERYONE knew Jordan was top dog.  There was NO debate - Scottie knew it, everyone on the team knew it, everyone in the NBA knew it, every one of the fans knew it.  Even fucking Dennis Rodman, who was a complete disaster everywhere he went (post Detroit in his early career) fell in line and never dared cross MJ.

The Lakers would have won several more championships if there wasn't a power struggle between Shaq and Kobe.  You can't just blame one guy, you have to blame them both.  They both have massive ego's.  But look at what each guy has accomplished since the trade - Kobe failed to make the playoffs and then was out in the 1st round the last two years.  Shaq went to the conference finals, won a championship, and then went out in the 1st round.  Shaq's probably ok with how everything played out, Kobe's probably not.

You guys don't think that Kobe ever thinks to himself "had I known my role and continued deferring to Shaq and not undermining him, I could prolly have a couple more rings".  A rational person would, but Kobe wanted to be top dog and didn't want to defer to anyone.  You make your bed, now you have to sleep in it.

You realize Shaq went to Miami and only won when he deferred to Wade, correct? You realize the Lakers were losing WITH both of them when Kobe deferred to an out-of-shape, declining Shaq against coaches will, because Shaq wouldn't (to quote him) "play defense, or grab rebounds" if the offense didn't run through him, correct? There goes your "arguments"...

LMFAO!!  You obviously don't know shit about basketball.  The Lakers were losing with Shaq & Kobe?!?  They lost to the fucking Pistons in the Finals!  It beats the living shit out of what the Lakers have been doing since he left.  Kobe was better off deferring to fat and lazy Shaq.  But he didn't want to do that, he had to be top dog and now his team sucks ass. 

They lost the year before that as well, "basketball fan"...So they brought in 2 hall of famers and still couldn't win with Shaq "leading" the way. Lakers were not better off. Shaq was acting ridiculous...We'd be doomed had we given Shaq that extreme contract he demanded. At least now we have something to build on, with the best player in the game leading the way.

They were still DRASTICALLY BETTER w/ Shaq than without him, "black mamba cock lover".  What do you mean you'd be doomed?  You mean like being relegated to 45 win seasons, missing the playoffs or getting ousted in the FIRST ROUND AT BEST?  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!