For those who think Kobe should've won MVP..........

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Jordan and Pippen won all those championships (and would have won more had Jordan not bailed out for 2 years in his absolute prime) because EVERYONE knew Jordan was top dog.  There was NO debate - Scottie knew it, everyone on the team knew it, everyone in the NBA knew it, every one of the fans knew it.  Even fucking Dennis Rodman, who was a complete disaster everywhere he went (post Detroit in his early career) fell in line and never dared cross MJ.

The Lakers would have won several more championships if there wasn't a power struggle between Shaq and Kobe.  You can't just blame one guy, you have to blame them both.  They both have massive ego's.  But look at what each guy has accomplished since the trade - Kobe failed to make the playoffs and then was out in the 1st round the last two years.  Shaq went to the conference finals, won a championship, and then went out in the 1st round.  Shaq's probably ok with how everything played out, Kobe's probably not.

You guys don't think that Kobe ever thinks to himself "had I known my role and continued deferring to Shaq and not undermining him, I could prolly have a couple more rings".  A rational person would, but Kobe wanted to be top dog and didn't want to defer to anyone.  You make your bed, now you have to sleep in it.

You realize Shaq went to Miami and only won when he deferred to Wade, correct? You realize the Lakers were losing WITH both of them when Kobe deferred to an out-of-shape, declining Shaq against coaches will, because Shaq wouldn't (to quote him) "play defense, or grab rebounds" if the offense didn't run through him, correct? There goes your "arguments"...

LMFAO!!  You obviously don't know shit about basketball.  The Lakers were losing with Shaq & Kobe?!?  They lost to the fucking Pistons in the Finals!  It beats the living shit out of what the Lakers have been doing since he left.  Kobe was better off deferring to fat and lazy Shaq.  But he didn't want to do that, he had to be top dog and now his team sucks ass. 

They lost the year before that as well, "basketball fan"...So they brought in 2 hall of famers and still couldn't win with Shaq "leading" the way. Lakers were not better off. Shaq was acting ridiculous...We'd be doomed had we given Shaq that extreme contract he demanded. At least now we have something to build on, with the best player in the game leading the way.

They were still DRASTICALLY BETTER w/ Shaq than without him, "black mamba cock lover".  What do you mean you'd be doomed?  You mean like being relegated to 45 win seasons, missing the playoffs or getting ousted in the FIRST ROUND AT BEST?  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Getting to the playoffs is good when you're in building stages...And when you have the best player in the league on your team to work with, you know you're in great shape. No way I'd be able to say the same had Shaq been in Kobe's current place...PeACe

[jeromechickenbone]

Jordan and Pippen won all those championships (and would have won more had Jordan not bailed out for 2 years in his absolute prime) because EVERYONE knew Jordan was top dog.  There was NO debate - Scottie knew it, everyone on the team knew it, everyone in the NBA knew it, every one of the fans knew it.  Even fucking Dennis Rodman, who was a complete disaster everywhere he went (post Detroit in his early career) fell in line and never dared cross MJ.

The Lakers would have won several more championships if there wasn't a power struggle between Shaq and Kobe.  You can't just blame one guy, you have to blame them both.  They both have massive ego's.  But look at what each guy has accomplished since the trade - Kobe failed to make the playoffs and then was out in the 1st round the last two years.  Shaq went to the conference finals, won a championship, and then went out in the 1st round.  Shaq's probably ok with how everything played out, Kobe's probably not.

You guys don't think that Kobe ever thinks to himself "had I known my role and continued deferring to Shaq and not undermining him, I could prolly have a couple more rings".  A rational person would, but Kobe wanted to be top dog and didn't want to defer to anyone.  You make your bed, now you have to sleep in it.

You realize Shaq went to Miami and only won when he deferred to Wade, correct? You realize the Lakers were losing WITH both of them when Kobe deferred to an out-of-shape, declining Shaq against coaches will, because Shaq wouldn't (to quote him) "play defense, or grab rebounds" if the offense didn't run through him, correct? There goes your "arguments"...

LMFAO!!  You obviously don't know shit about basketball.  The Lakers were losing with Shaq & Kobe?!?  They lost to the fucking Pistons in the Finals!  It beats the living shit out of what the Lakers have been doing since he left.  Kobe was better off deferring to fat and lazy Shaq.  But he didn't want to do that, he had to be top dog and now his team sucks ass. 

They lost the year before that as well, "basketball fan"...So they brought in 2 hall of famers and still couldn't win with Shaq "leading" the way. Lakers were not better off. Shaq was acting ridiculous...We'd be doomed had we given Shaq that extreme contract he demanded. At least now we have something to build on, with the best player in the game leading the way.

They were still DRASTICALLY BETTER w/ Shaq than without him, "black mamba cock lover".  What do you mean you'd be doomed?  You mean like being relegated to 45 win seasons, missing the playoffs or getting ousted in the FIRST ROUND AT BEST?  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Getting to the playoffs is good when you're in building stages...And when you have the best player in the league on your team to work with, you know you're in great shape. No way I'd be able to say the same had Shaq been in Kobe's current place...PeACe

You're in great shape?  The last 3 years were a COMPLETE waste - blame it on injuries, blame it on officiating, blame it on the media, blame it on Michael Jordan.  Bottom line is the Lakers haven't been a threat to win anything since Shaq left (Oh and the minor fact that he picked up his 4th ring has to be really hard to swallow).  Nearly everybody that they've been playing and developing are potential trade bait now.  Kobe sending ultimatums to management and hinting at leaving?  I'm sure every team in the NBA wishes they were in The Lakers current position

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Jordan and Pippen won all those championships (and would have won more had Jordan not bailed out for 2 years in his absolute prime) because EVERYONE knew Jordan was top dog.  There was NO debate - Scottie knew it, everyone on the team knew it, everyone in the NBA knew it, every one of the fans knew it.  Even fucking Dennis Rodman, who was a complete disaster everywhere he went (post Detroit in his early career) fell in line and never dared cross MJ.

The Lakers would have won several more championships if there wasn't a power struggle between Shaq and Kobe.  You can't just blame one guy, you have to blame them both.  They both have massive ego's.  But look at what each guy has accomplished since the trade - Kobe failed to make the playoffs and then was out in the 1st round the last two years.  Shaq went to the conference finals, won a championship, and then went out in the 1st round.  Shaq's probably ok with how everything played out, Kobe's probably not.

You guys don't think that Kobe ever thinks to himself "had I known my role and continued deferring to Shaq and not undermining him, I could prolly have a couple more rings".  A rational person would, but Kobe wanted to be top dog and didn't want to defer to anyone.  You make your bed, now you have to sleep in it.

You realize Shaq went to Miami and only won when he deferred to Wade, correct? You realize the Lakers were losing WITH both of them when Kobe deferred to an out-of-shape, declining Shaq against coaches will, because Shaq wouldn't (to quote him) "play defense, or grab rebounds" if the offense didn't run through him, correct? There goes your "arguments"...

LMFAO!!  You obviously don't know shit about basketball.  The Lakers were losing with Shaq & Kobe?!?  They lost to the fucking Pistons in the Finals!  It beats the living shit out of what the Lakers have been doing since he left.  Kobe was better off deferring to fat and lazy Shaq.  But he didn't want to do that, he had to be top dog and now his team sucks ass. 

They lost the year before that as well, "basketball fan"...So they brought in 2 hall of famers and still couldn't win with Shaq "leading" the way. Lakers were not better off. Shaq was acting ridiculous...We'd be doomed had we given Shaq that extreme contract he demanded. At least now we have something to build on, with the best player in the game leading the way.

They were still DRASTICALLY BETTER w/ Shaq than without him, "black mamba cock lover".  What do you mean you'd be doomed?  You mean like being relegated to 45 win seasons, missing the playoffs or getting ousted in the FIRST ROUND AT BEST?  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Getting to the playoffs is good when you're in building stages...And when you have the best player in the league on your team to work with, you know you're in great shape. No way I'd be able to say the same had Shaq been in Kobe's current place...PeACe

You're in great shape?  The last 3 years were a COMPLETE waste - blame it on injuries, blame it on officiating, blame it on the media, blame it on Michael Jordan.  Bottom line is the Lakers haven't been a threat to win anything since Shaq left (Oh and the minor fact that he picked up his 4th ring has to be really hard to swallow).  Nearly everybody that they've been playing and developing are potential trade bait now.  Kobe sending ultimatums to management and hinting at leaving?  I'm sure every team in the NBA wishes they were in The Lakers current position

LOL@"ultimatums"...The fact is, no one picked us to make the playoffs last year. We made it and almost upset a 2nd seed. Barely anyone picked us to make it this year as well, and guess what, all the injuries in the world couldn't stop us. And that's with SMUSH PARKER as our starting point guard. The last 3 years were a waste? LMAO. Since when is playoff experience a waste? Our players are developing and learning the offense (Jordan, Turiaf, Luke, Bynum, Radman, Kwame, Evans, etc,). We are not far from being contenders. Shit, we're easily a better team than Utah or Golden State at full strength, and look where they are. And guess what, there are AT LEAST 14 teams who wish they could be in the Lakers position (making the playoffs). And I guarantee you it's even more than that, due to us having the best player and best center prospect to build around. LMAO@acting like the Lakers are the Clippers or something...Hmmm, who's in better shape for the future. The Lakers or the Heat?...

[Antonio_]

Man i love (no homo) Andris Biedrins. The guy is just 20. He's another wonderful prospect, imho. I'd trade Bynum for a superstar if we could get our hands on him.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

^^Biedrins is nice, but I see him as someone with potential to be an excellent role player. I much rather have Bynum.

[jeromechickenbone]

I'd rather have Oden.

[Don Jacob]

winning  05' -06' championship, going to the CF twice, making the playoffs 3 consecutive years, almost winning league MVP in first year, having winning season three consecutive years, rejuvenating a whole town>>>>>>>> going to playoffs 2 out of 3 years, almost winning mvp in second year, winninger all star mvp, having winning seasons 2-3 years, almost making it to second round in second year, scoring 81 points, winnining two scoring titles

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

^LMFAO@if you think Shaq had a better last 2 season INDIVIDUALLY than Kobe....And Shaq HAS NOT been the leader of the Heat.

[Antonio_]

winning  05' -06' championship, going to the CF twice, making the playoffs 3 consecutive years, almost winning league MVP in first year, having winning season three consecutive years, rejuvenating a whole town>>>>>>>> going to playoffs 2 out of 3 years, almost winning mvp in second year, winninger all star mvp, having winning seasons 2-3 years, almost making it to second round in second year, scoring 81 points, winnining two scoring titles

Are you talking about mr. "If he wants to give back $10 million and play half a season, that's fine',' "The dialogue has to stop. You can't sell that to your fans. He knows his influence on his teammates. He's going to have to lead by real example" ? Yeah, right. Keep dreaming about Shaq being slim and professional, dude. Whatever...

[floatin_above_everything]

^^Jordan wouldn't have made it to that position to begin with if Kwame Brown was his starting center.

Kobe won championships when Jordan was still in college. Kobe has range that Jordan dreamed of having. Kobe has had amazing individual performances which made Jordan's amazing individual performances seem that much less amazing...I mean, come on, do you think Jordan could outscore Dallas in 3 quarters? Or score 81 in a game? Or how 'bout the way Kobe beat Jordan's record of consecutive 50+ point games? He's also scored a lot more points by a younger age... If Jordan was able to do that sort of stuff, I believe te Bulls woulda rivaled the 60's Celtics for greatest decade in basketball...PeACe

I'm sure Jordan COULD do all of that if he had the teammates that Kobe had. Yeah, Kobe has had some great individual performances the last few years, but if Jordan had the same D-league teammates that Kobe had, he would have been more than capable. Jordan didn't HAVE to score 45 + for his team to win. Give it up though homie, Jordan is the GOAT no doubt about it, and it wont changing anytime soon. Plus, Jordan is a much more likeable person that Kobe, so that will affect how Kobe is percieved for the rest of his career. I mean shouting out the "f" word at the top of your lungs during a televised game is uncalled for and immature. Even Steven Jackson doesn't sink that low, and he's a real scumbag.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

^^Jordan wouldn't have made it to that position to begin with if Kwame Brown was his starting center.

Kobe won championships when Jordan was still in college. Kobe has range that Jordan dreamed of having. Kobe has had amazing individual performances which made Jordan's amazing individual performances seem that much less amazing...I mean, come on, do you think Jordan could outscore Dallas in 3 quarters? Or score 81 in a game? Or how 'bout the way Kobe beat Jordan's record of consecutive 50+ point games? He's also scored a lot more points by a younger age... If Jordan was able to do that sort of stuff, I believe te Bulls woulda rivaled the 60's Celtics for greatest decade in basketball...PeACe

I'm sure Jordan COULD do all of that if he had the teammates that Kobe had. Yeah, Kobe has had some great individual performances the last few years, but if Jordan had the same D-league teammates that Kobe had, he would have been more than capable. Jordan didn't HAVE to score 45 + for his team to win. Give it up though homie, Jordan is the GOAT no doubt about it, and it wont changing anytime soon. Plus, Jordan is a much more likeable person that Kobe, so that will affect how Kobe is percieved for the rest of his career. I mean shouting out the "f" word at the top of your lungs during a televised game is uncalled for and immature. Even Steven Jackson doesn't sink that low, and he's a real scumbag.

Jordan's record for attempted shots in one game is greater than Kobe's...There goes your theory.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

...And LMAO@Jordan being a more likeable person...Yea, as portrayed by the media.


But nothing is funnier than "the f word" though. ahahahahahaha.

[floatin_above_everything]

...And LMAO@Jordan being a more likeable person...Yea, as portrayed by the media.


But nothing is funnier than "the f word" though. ahahahahahaha.

I thought that him cursing that loud on a televised game was stupid as hell, there is no conversing with you though. Jordan>>>>>>>Kobe, nothing personal just facts.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

...And LMAO@Jordan being a more likeable person...Yea, as portrayed by the media.


But nothing is funnier than "the f word" though. ahahahahahaha.

I thought that him cursing that loud on a televised game was stupid as hell, there is no conversing with you though. Jordan>>>>>>>Kobe, nothing personal just facts.

That's a valid OPINION...As well as this:

Kobe 28 > Jordan 28


and LMAO@believing Jordan never cussed on TV or in a game.

[Antonio_]

^^Jordan wouldn't have made it to that position to begin with if Kwame Brown was his starting center.

Kobe won championships when Jordan was still in college. Kobe has range that Jordan dreamed of having. Kobe has had amazing individual performances which made Jordan's amazing individual performances seem that much less amazing...I mean, come on, do you think Jordan could outscore Dallas in 3 quarters? Or score 81 in a game? Or how 'bout the way Kobe beat Jordan's record of consecutive 50+ point games? He's also scored a lot more points by a younger age... If Jordan was able to do that sort of stuff, I believe te Bulls woulda rivaled the 60's Celtics for greatest decade in basketball...PeACe

I'm sure Jordan COULD do all of that if he had the teammates that Kobe had. Yeah, Kobe has had some great individual performances the last few years, but if Jordan had the same D-league teammates that Kobe had, he would have been more than capable. Jordan didn't HAVE to score 45 + for his team to win. Give it up though homie, Jordan is the GOAT no doubt about it, and it wont changing anytime soon. Plus, Jordan is a much more likeable person that Kobe, so that will affect how Kobe is percieved for the rest of his career. I mean shouting out the "f" word at the top of your lungs during a televised game is uncalled for and immature. Even Steven Jackson doesn't sink that low, and he's a real scumbag.

Jordan's record for attempted shots in one game is greater than Kobe's...There goes your theory.

In one game? Shit, i've already proved in one post, some times ago, that Jordan had a greater attempted shots per game stat for 3/4 of his career!!!!!! Not just for a single game..