Iraq never threatened America, Hitler never threatened America, Vietnam never th

[JLscorpio]

If im not mistaken when the treay of Versailles was reached President Wilson was opposed to the harsh treatments Germany was given after World War 1 but he was overruled by the English and French. The English people wanted the extreme penalties and so did the French. While English Prime Minister David Lloyd George wanted to be more cautious about it he ended up bending his will to the people. The French felt much the same and so did there Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau. So if anyone is to blame it is the English and the French given the were in the greatest position to allow leniency, but they chose to be vindictive.

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

If im not mistaken when the treay of Versailles was reached President Wilson was opposed to the harsh treatments Germany was given after World War 1 but he was overruled by the English and French. The English people wanted the extreme penalties and so did the French. While English Prime Minister David Lloyd George wanted to be more cautious about it he ended up bending his will to the people. The French felt much the same and so did there Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau. So if anyone is to blame it is the English and the French given the were in the greatest position to allow leniency, but they chose to be vindictive.

Thanks for the info...


btw, just another historical note regarding the treaties that followed World War 1 for those that are interested, out of all the world leaders that comprised the defeated Central Powers, the Turkish Sultan Veheddin, was the only leader that that wasn't removed from power, and Ottomans/Turks were also the only ones who didn't have harsh reperations enforced on them. 

However, I believe this was part of a larger plan, and their were historical documents to back this up, but I will mention only a couple of items here.  Basically, the British had ruled over places such as the Indian subcontinent for a long time.  And they were afraid if they dethroned the Islamic world leader (Kalifah) then the Indian Muslims might rebel against the Empire.  So they went about achieving the same objective but in a more covert way.

They occupied the Sultan's capital, thus making the Sultan weak.  And although they didn't enforce reperations, the Allied forces did control the flow of money coming in and out of the capital.  Meanwhile, they turned a blind eye towards the activities of Turkish nationalist Mustapha Kemal, who was arming militia's in another Turkish city named Anatolia.  Therefore, this made Attaturk (Mustapha Kemal) look powerful and the Sultan look weak.  Soon, they broke a deal with Attaturk to end their occupation of the capital, so thus he then gained the credit from the people as having been the one that gave the Turks back their NATION.  Then, by the time 1922 had roled around, he was viewed by the Turkish people as a hero, and he usurped authoratarian power over the Empire, and then in 1924 he desolved the institution of the Ottoman Sultan/Kalifah alltogether.

^^So you see how the British were able to meet their goal?  In fact, it's a similar situation today.  If America were to leave Iraq, they would try to do it in a way, that would give the credit to a handpicked group of Iraqi's, that they favor to take over the region.


 

[Shallow]

Whether or not Germany and the Ottoman Empire would run the world. No bomb, no USA world power. Bomb, no Germany world power.

Well......... even if America had a bomb it doesn't mean they would have immediately went and bombed Germany and the Ottoman Empire into destruciton.. also, Germany and Ottoman Empire would have became rich after WW1 from oil wealth so they would have had more capital for research into making and biulding nukes.

They would have done what they had to for Isreal to become a nation. If the Ottoman's stood in the way then see ya later.

[Don Seer]

ok some quick facts..

the germans couldnt cross the channel because the english navy has been one of the strongest naval forces to exist on this planet.. we live on an island.. to leave and conquer 4/5ths of the world we had to have an army on the sea

the germans did mercilessly bomb the crap out of england.. but at first we had sound mirrors (for some cool pics see http://www.castlekas.freeserve.co.uk/sound_mirrors.htm) and later invented radar to detect the incoming threaty. other ingenius tactics were used... like.. they used to dark out towns.. but in  hills/fields nearby they'd lay out lights so it looked like the town from above.. they'd bomb these "lit" fields..

However, I believe this was part of a larger plan, and their were historical documents to back this up, but I will mention only a couple of items here.  Basically, the British had ruled over places such as the Indian subcontinent for a long time.  And they were afraid if they dethroned the Islamic world leader (Kalifah) then the Indian Muslims might rebel against the Empire.  So they went about achieving the same objective but in a more covert way.

then what happened in india?


muslims formed "the muslim league"

muslims marched in the night and persecuted and attacked the peaceful Buddhist and Hindu indians alike.. they'd lock themselves in their homes to secure them from the muslim mobs.

and ultimately forced segregation and the formation of Pakistan.

those that didn't leave the places where their families had dwelled for 1000s of years and move to "safe" areas (which became india) were either killed or came to england


genocidal land grabbing dirty muslim bastards!

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

then what happened in india?


muslims formed "the muslim league"

muslims marched in the night and persecuted and attacked the peaceful Buddhist and Hindu indians alike.. they'd lock themselves in their homes to secure them from the muslim mobs.

and ultimately forced segregation and the formation of Pakistan.

those that didn't leave the places where their families had dwelled for 1000s of years and move to "safe" areas (which became india) were either killed or came to england


genocidal land grabbing dirty muslim bastards!

They don't even give that representation here in America, that's probably a British thing to remove your giult over a bloody occupation of India that lasted for centuries. 

Even in the American representation in their textbooks, they actually make it sound as if what followed World War 1, was that Muslim, Hindu, Sihk, Buddist, all held hands and united together to oppose British rule, with the figurehead being Gandi, and so ultimately Britian had to leave, but not without planting the seeds for India's own destruction by seperating India and Pakistan in such a way that has led to the perpetual fighting over rights to Kashmir that weren't ever clearly defined.

^^That's the American perspective.  My perspective is that the Hindu's had stabbed the Muslims in the back for centuries, the Hindu's were usually the ones conspiring with the Britian's to the disadvantage of the Indian people and for the advantage of the white man.  Then, eventually, the Muslims fought to remove Britian's occupation... so Britian was forced out, however, Britian did not want India to become a threat down the road, so therefore they gave power to the Hindu's and claimed they left because of Ghandi's non-violent revolution, and they also left the Kashmir issue undefined to use as a wedge between Indian's and Pakistani's and play them against eachother.

As for the (West) Pakistan, (East Pakistan) Bangledash beef, I think Muslims have to accept most of the responsibility for that, although I think the Western Powers may have aided somewhat in that affair as it was ultimately towards their imperialistic advantage.

[Shallow]

ok some quick facts..

the germans couldnt cross the channel because the english navy has been one of the strongest naval forces to exist on this planet.. we live on an island.. to leave and conquer 4/5ths of the world we had to have an army on the sea

the germans did mercilessly bomb the crap out of england.. but at first we had sound mirrors (for some cool pics see http://www.castlekas.freeserve.co.uk/sound_mirrors.htm) and later invented radar to detect the incoming threaty. other ingenius tactics were used... like.. they used to dark out towns.. but in  hills/fields nearby they'd lay out lights so it looked like the town from above.. they'd bomb these "lit" fields..

However, I believe this was part of a larger plan, and their were historical documents to back this up, but I will mention only a couple of items here.  Basically, the British had ruled over places such as the Indian subcontinent for a long time.  And they were afraid if they dethroned the Islamic world leader (Kalifah) then the Indian Muslims might rebel against the Empire.  So they went about achieving the same objective but in a more covert way.

then what happened in india?


muslims formed "the muslim league"

muslims marched in the night and persecuted and attacked the peaceful Buddhist and Hindu indians alike.. they'd lock themselves in their homes to secure them from the muslim mobs.

and ultimately forced segregation and the formation of Pakistan.

those that didn't leave the places where their families had dwelled for 1000s of years and move to "safe" areas (which became india) were either killed or came to england


genocidal land grabbing dirty muslim bastards!

Seer you idiot. Muslims aren't capable of evil. Even in Greece where my ancestory is from, when the Muslims ruled over Greece for 400 years it was the best era in the history of the region. Only white Christians are capable of evil.

[7even]

That would mean though that the Muslims would be ruling the world now too along with Germany

and thank god everything happens for a reason then huh?


i cant believe you think it would be a good thing for hitler to be in charge.

Let me clarify one major point you might have missed.... I was talking about Kaiser Wilhelm (not HITLER) and World War 1 when I was talking about Germany and the Islamic Ottoman Empire almost winning the war and becoming the 20th century world superpowers.   So ofcourse, now my second point would be that the harsh reperations and treatment Germany was forced to endure after World War 1 is what ultimately lead to the rise of Hitler and World War 2. 

Yeah, but it wasn't America who was treating Germany like shit. The USSR had more losses on the battlefield, so they were awarded with more land and power over Germany. They were the ones who tore it up. Just like at the end of WWII as well.

America didn't make Germany mad, but they gave other countries the opportunity to make Germany really, REALLY mad. And that's why Hitler could happen.

No disrespect to France but that treaty of Versailles just took it too far.

[7even]

That all depends on whether the US got the bomb or not when it did. It would have easily taken out Germany and the Middle East in the 40s when only the US had nukes. Don't forget about the USSR as well.

What depends?

Whether or not Germany and the Ottoman Empire would run the world. No bomb, no USA world power. Bomb, no Germany world power.

Germany's scientists were far superior to US scientists back then, the only reason how the US could get that bomb was because Germany's politics in the late 30s/40s was so retarded that all the smart cats, and partly jewish cats were like "Fuck this, lets help the 'enemy'" If Germany had not lost World War 1, no bomb for the US, and no Hitler. You can trust that.

[Furor Teutonicus]

quick question infinite......

hitler or bush? who would you prefer?

 do you mean that serious? 


America didn't make Germany mad, but they gave other countries the opportunity to make Germany really, REALLY mad. And that's why Hitler could happen.

No disrespect to France but that treaty of Versailles just took it too far.
[/quote]

yeah, that's one of the reasons,but I can n somehow understand why people voted for Hitler. The problem was that Germany wasn't ready for what we call "democracy", just like some Islamic states like Iraq.

And I think that all US interventions were neccessary, the first because because war ended faster and we don't need to discuss about WW II. The fist world war wasn't just Germany's fault, but the problem was simply Whilhelm II, who was the most incompetent leader in German history. If he wouldn't have fired Bismarck, WW I never happened. And as France and Russia alligned, the English wanted to form an alliance with Germany, and with the UK Germany wouldn't have lost the war .

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

Germany's scientists were far superior to US scientists back then, the only reason how the US could get that bomb was because Germany's politics in the late 30s/40s was so retarded that all the smart cats, and partly jewish cats were like "Fuck this, lets help the 'enemy'" If Germany had not lost World War 1, no bomb for the US, and no Hitler. You can trust that.

Einstien was a Jew.  So that supports your theory.

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

7, are you German?

If so, I'm curious to hear a perspective from the Germans about why they lost WW1, and also, how the Ottoman Empire is presented in today's German textbooks and whether the German's are bitter to the Ottomans for their aide in WW1 (because it ultimately wasn't enough) or grateful to the Ottomans for their aide in WW1 (because it was Germany that encouraged them in the first place).

[7even]

7, are you German?

If so, I'm curious to hear a perspective from the Germans about why they lost WW1, and also, how the Ottoman Empire is presented in today's German textbooks and whether the German's are bitter to the Ottomans for their aide in WW1 (because it ultimately wasn't enough) or grateful to the Ottomans for their aide in WW1 (because it was Germany that encouraged them in the first place).

You just can't win a war like that. Being a country in the middle of it and in war with more than 2 fronts against you. Being from America it is a situation hard to grasp. Because your country is isolated as fuck.
Other important factors were that the UK was superior in the water, with their boats and shit. They were a nation that thrived on those type of things, whereas Germany was just getting into it, understandably as the UK is an island and Germany doesn't have any significant water around itself.

But the ultimate factor was, as soon as America entered the war there was no way of winning it. You can't battle half the world and win, when your county is in the middle of it. Of course the US waited a couple years until they joined, which has been pretty sneaky.

The Ottoman Empire is not very present in the textbooks when it comes to WW1. Nobody is bitter about them. The fact is, that they teach a sort of self-hate in school. For example, according to the books and common perspective, the country that started WW1 was Germany, but it was really Austria (which is to Germany pretty much what Canada is to the US) was catching feelings because Franz Ferdinand was assassinated by Serbia in a terroristic act, and the country (Serbia) wasn't really going to do anything about it so they declared war upon them. As Austria can't handle something like this by itself, it went without saying that its big brother Germany would help them majorly. And that's how one thing add to another. Yet nobody talks about that. It's always just "Germany started the war, the whole reason for everything bad that happened from 1914 to 1918 is Germany, fuck Germany"... and that is also the reason why they don't talk about allies much. They don't really talk about the Japanese or Pearl Harbor when it comes to WW2. Like I said, they teach you self-loath in school.

[Don Seer]

if muslims are so good why didnt they invent nukes? 

[Low Key]

That would mean though that the Muslims would be ruling the world now too along with Germany

and thank god everything happens for a reason then huh?


i cant believe you think it would be a good thing for hitler to be in charge.

Let me clarify one major point you might have missed.... I was talking about Kaiser Wilhelm (not HITLER) and World War 1 when I was talking about Germany and the Islamic Ottoman Empire almost winning the war and becoming the 20th century world superpowers.   So ofcourse, now my second point would be that the harsh reperations and treatment Germany was forced to endure after World War 1 is what ultimately lead to the rise of Hitler and World War 2. 

Yeah, but it wasn't America who was treating Germany like shit. The USSR had more losses on the battlefield, so they were awarded with more land and power over Germany. They were the ones who tore it up. Just like at the end of WWII as well.

America didn't make Germany mad, but they gave other countries the opportunity to make Germany really, REALLY mad. And that's why Hitler could happen.

No disrespect to France but that treaty of Versailles just took it too far.

They only allowed something like that to happen, because back then, America wasn't the world police. Then Russia came in and decided to take over shit. That is when Vietnam happened, because America started blaming Communism for the cold war and Russia's greed, and they didn't want to have to deal with another country siding with their enemiies.

[Shallow]

Germany's scientists were far superior to US scientists back then, the only reason how the US could get that bomb was because Germany's politics in the late 30s/40s was so retarded that all the smart cats, and partly jewish cats were like "Fuck this, lets help the 'enemy'" If Germany had not lost World War 1, no bomb for the US, and no Hitler. You can trust that.

Einstien was a Jew.  So that supports your theory.

Yeah but Oppenheimer was in the US before WW1. The bottom line with the Ottoman is Isreal. Fuck it didn't matter who was the world power. All the fucking major scientists behind the weapon were Jewish and most of them were zionist. If the Ottomans got in the way it wouldn't matter if it were the US or Germany nuking theiir faces off.

And whether or not Germany won WW1 would have little effect on the US becoming a super power and no one was ever going to take over the States regardless. Too many people and too hard to set up a strong front to get in. You'd have to take over Canada and Mexico first just to stand a chance, and good luck going through Russia. The US economy was on the verge of a super boom in the 1900s and they had the workforce to drive it.