This series proves why Duncan is better than Shaq

[teecee]

From a recent article on FoX:

"There is some debate in Los Angeles as to whether the Lakers' run of three consecutive championships is more impressive than the Spurs' four in nine years. It is not. Humility and teamwork are talents, too. And on those counts the Lakers fell short. "I hate to say it," said Derek Fisher, the point guard for those Laker teams, "but they're probably surpassing us. ... They have become the class of the league."

"Money hurt that team," Robert Horry said of the Lakers during Wednesday's interview session. "It came down to this guy wanted this much money, that guy wanted this much money. Those two guys" — he meant Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant — "wanted to be the top dog and forgot about all the other guys."

Having won rings as a Laker and a Spur (not to mention as a Rocket), Horry knows of what he speaks. The Lakers' talent was exceeded only by their egos. It retarded their reign. The Spurs, by contrast, don't care who's the high scorer or the MVP. They follow Duncan's lead in that they care only about winning."

According to Horry, an insider if there ever was one, it was both Kobe and Shaq, not just Shaq.  Case closed.

[GangstaBoogy]

lmao, did you watch the 2006 finals? hahahaha

and in 2004, shaq's last year with the lakers, he was just much better than kobe in the finals, no point in stepping behind him lol

LOL@Shaq being much better than Kobe' in '04, when Shaq had trouble getting off the ground and grabbing boards in double digits or scoring 20 or more points. And LMAO@2006, where Shaq put up games of 6 points and 5 rebounds and couldn't score over 20 points ONCE in the finals...You're funny, 7even. If Shaq was smarter, we'd be talking 6peat+. You know this.

I'm not talking about the 90+ games the Lakers had in 2003-04, but in the Finals he was the much better player. Kobe had that clutch 3 in Game 2, that was as good as he got in the series. Shaq was still an animal. Not as much as back in his prime, but he was still pretty damn good if you don't ignore the fact that he was like 32 playing against the best defensive team and the best big man defender in the game. Anyways, that's not so important, what's important is that it is retarded to argue that Shaq didn't defer to Kobe in the '04 Finals when he should have.

Of course Shaq couldn't contribute like back in the day in the '06 Finals, but he deferred to Wade and sometimes even to Zo when he had to. It's not like Duncan was absolutely dominating offensively this post-season, either.

I also refuse to believe that it was all Shaq's fault how the situation with Kobe didn't work out.


Shaq >> Duncan, bottom line.


What do you mean if Shaq was smarter? Was he supposed to stay with the Lakers after 04? Kobe wouldn't have re-signed, you know this. And I'm sure you're the last one who would argue that the Lakers with Shaq instead of Kobe and Odom would win 3 more titles.

You can read all the Lakerbooks you want, Kobe and Shaq had problems for many years. The only difference is as long as you are winning, you can look past that. As soon as you're not even successful, it can become a huge problem.

DUDE... Did you watch the series? We lost because Ben Wallace was holding Shaq down, and Shaq INSISTED that the offence keeps running through him...Yes, Kobe had a bad series shooting-wise, but he was still holding it down on defense and doing his...LMAO@pretending like Shaq was on Kobe's level in '04 because of one series, where Shaq was considered "shut down" by his standards...If the offence runs through Kobe in '04, and Shaq lets loose, just doing his, it's a whole nother story. If Shaq wasn't a primadonna who was afraid of sharing spotlight, then the whole situation with Kobe never woulda' happened to begin with...Kobe was gunna opt out either way, every star does this, you can get more money that way...But the point is, Kobe said he wouldn't mind playing alongside Shaq for his whole career. It was Shaq who didn't want his legacy tarnished when Kobe began taking over...WHY DO YOU THINK WE STARTED LOSING WHEN SHAQ WAS EXITING HIS PRIME? He coulda' done what Kareem did for Magic...But no, he decided to do what he did for Penny...ONCE AGAIN.

Nik what are you talking about?  Shaq averaged about 28 points/game in the 2004 finals, how did he get shut down by Big Ben, that's not a very good point your trying to make.  The Lakers lost that year because Payton didn't step up and Malone was injured, I say if Malone was healthy and Kareem Rush hit shots like he did in the Western Conference Finals we woulda won that year too

Yeah thats true too. I don't like placing blame on one player, but Payton had a huge part to do with that. He had already struggled to comprehend the triangle, the Billups just completely locked up on him. Malone wasn't healthy and unfortunately neither was Horace Grant. Shaq played pretty good just not vintage Shaq. Kobe struggled. And we couldn't get anything out of our bench (other than a few nice plays by Luke).

[Antonio_]

"Money hurt that team," Robert Horry said of the Lakers during Wednesday's interview session. "It came down to this guy wanted this much money, that guy wanted this much money. Those two guys" — he meant Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant — "wanted to be the top dog and forgot about all the other guys."

Having won rings as a Laker and a Spur (not to mention as a Rocket), Horry knows of what he speaks. The Lakers' talent was exceeded only by their egos. It retarded their reign. The Spurs, by contrast, don't care who's the high scorer or the MVP. They follow Duncan's lead in that they care only about winning."

According to Horry, an insider if there ever was one, it was both Kobe and Shaq, not just Shaq.  Case closed.

HORRY IS GOD.

And, since HORRY IS GOD, that's the truth. Case closed for me too.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

lmao, did you watch the 2006 finals? hahahaha

and in 2004, shaq's last year with the lakers, he was just much better than kobe in the finals, no point in stepping behind him lol

LOL@Shaq being much better than Kobe' in '04, when Shaq had trouble getting off the ground and grabbing boards in double digits or scoring 20 or more points. And LMAO@2006, where Shaq put up games of 6 points and 5 rebounds and couldn't score over 20 points ONCE in the finals...You're funny, 7even. If Shaq was smarter, we'd be talking 6peat+. You know this.

I'm not talking about the 90+ games the Lakers had in 2003-04, but in the Finals he was the much better player. Kobe had that clutch 3 in Game 2, that was as good as he got in the series. Shaq was still an animal. Not as much as back in his prime, but he was still pretty damn good if you don't ignore the fact that he was like 32 playing against the best defensive team and the best big man defender in the game. Anyways, that's not so important, what's important is that it is retarded to argue that Shaq didn't defer to Kobe in the '04 Finals when he should have.

Of course Shaq couldn't contribute like back in the day in the '06 Finals, but he deferred to Wade and sometimes even to Zo when he had to. It's not like Duncan was absolutely dominating offensively this post-season, either.

I also refuse to believe that it was all Shaq's fault how the situation with Kobe didn't work out.


Shaq >> Duncan, bottom line.


What do you mean if Shaq was smarter? Was he supposed to stay with the Lakers after 04? Kobe wouldn't have re-signed, you know this. And I'm sure you're the last one who would argue that the Lakers with Shaq instead of Kobe and Odom would win 3 more titles.

You can read all the Lakerbooks you want, Kobe and Shaq had problems for many years. The only difference is as long as you are winning, you can look past that. As soon as you're not even successful, it can become a huge problem.

DUDE... Did you watch the series? We lost because Ben Wallace was holding Shaq down, and Shaq INSISTED that the offence keeps running through him...Yes, Kobe had a bad series shooting-wise, but he was still holding it down on defense and doing his...LMAO@pretending like Shaq was on Kobe's level in '04 because of one series, where Shaq was considered "shut down" by his standards...If the offence runs through Kobe in '04, and Shaq lets loose, just doing his, it's a whole nother story. If Shaq wasn't a primadonna who was afraid of sharing spotlight, then the whole situation with Kobe never woulda' happened to begin with...Kobe was gunna opt out either way, every star does this, you can get more money that way...But the point is, Kobe said he wouldn't mind playing alongside Shaq for his whole career. It was Shaq who didn't want his legacy tarnished when Kobe began taking over...WHY DO YOU THINK WE STARTED LOSING WHEN SHAQ WAS EXITING HIS PRIME? He coulda' done what Kareem did for Magic...But no, he decided to do what he did for Penny...ONCE AGAIN.

Nik what are you talking about?  Shaq averaged about 28 points/game in the 2004 finals, how did he get shut down by Big Ben, that's not a very good point your trying to make.  The Lakers lost that year because Payton didn't step up and Malone was injured, I say if Malone was healthy and Kareem Rush hit shots like he did in the Western Conference Finals we woulda won that year too

"We"? You're a Laker fan?? Fact of the matter is, Shaq was unquestionably out of his prime by then. You know he's not himself anymore when he's putting up games of 14 points and 8 rebounds in the Finals...Shaq did have some nice games, but overall, he should not have acted like he did that season. We woulda won the series with Malone healthy and some better officiating, but the fact of the matter is, Shaq was only playing dominant every other game, yet the offense was running through him based on HIS demands...If you demand the offense, at least pull through...2003-04 is the seaosn Shaq started REALLY pissing me off with his attitude and work ethic. He definitely coulda taken the higher road and it definitely woulda' paid off. He said his dream was to retire with 2 hands fulla' rings, 6, 7, 8+...He definitely coulda' had it ...PeACe

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

^^Then you simply don't get the fucking situation. Had we had a Kareem or a Hakeem instead of a Shaq on our team, it NEVER woulda' happened. Can you honestly disagree with that? HAVE YOU NOT LEARNED WHO SHAQ IS YET?

I agree with you, Shaq is an asshole with one of the largest ego's of any athlete ever.  Having said that, how about this question: 

If Kobe was like Parker, Lebron or Wade (ie. someone who can defer, play team ball, set others up, etc) would the situation have happened? 

The fact that you can't even admit Kobe was a little bit to blame is rather humorous man!

The only thing hilarious is claiming couldn't defer when he defered to Shaq during Shaq's whole stay with the Lakers, even when he was WAY better than a Parker, a Lebron, or  a Wade, even when Phil Jackson wanted the offense running through Kobe...You have nothing. Your going offa' your feelings, not offa' facts, man....PeACe

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

From a recent article on FoX:

"There is some debate in Los Angeles as to whether the Lakers' run of three consecutive championships is more impressive than the Spurs' four in nine years. It is not. Humility and teamwork are talents, too. And on those counts the Lakers fell short. "I hate to say it," said Derek Fisher, the point guard for those Laker teams, "but they're probably surpassing us. ... They have become the class of the league."

"Money hurt that team," Robert Horry said of the Lakers during Wednesday's interview session. "It came down to this guy wanted this much money, that guy wanted this much money. Those two guys" — he meant Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant — "wanted to be the top dog and forgot about all the other guys."

Having won rings as a Laker and a Spur (not to mention as a Rocket), Horry knows of what he speaks. The Lakers' talent was exceeded only by their egos. It retarded their reign. The Spurs, by contrast, don't care who's the high scorer or the MVP. They follow Duncan's lead in that they care only about winning."

According to Horry, an insider if there ever was one, it was both Kobe and Shaq, not just Shaq.  Case closed.

yea, you forgot this part of the article:

Most agree that these Spurs are the best of San Antonio's four championship teams, and yet Horry doesn't believe they measure with the Lakers' 2001 title winner. "If I had to pick one team, it would be (2001) when we swept everyone except for Philly," Horry said. "That team was pretty awesome. It was like a locomotive coming through with no brakes."

And Horry hit it on the nail. It was MONEY ISSUES. Shaq wanted 30 mill a year! Check Kobe's current contract with the Lakers. He gets paid less than Kevin Garnett, Jermaine O'Neal, Allen Iverson, Michael Finley, Chris Webber, Jason Kidd, Allan Houston ( ) and even Shaq! Are you saying Shaq wanted Kobe to take less money than he's taking now? And you support this asshole??

[Antonio_]

From a recent article on FoX:

"There is some debate in Los Angeles as to whether the Lakers' run of three consecutive championships is more impressive than the Spurs' four in nine years. It is not. Humility and teamwork are talents, too. And on those counts the Lakers fell short. "I hate to say it," said Derek Fisher, the point guard for those Laker teams, "but they're probably surpassing us. ... They have become the class of the league."

"Money hurt that team," Robert Horry said of the Lakers during Wednesday's interview session. "It came down to this guy wanted this much money, that guy wanted this much money. Those two guys" — he meant Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant — "wanted to be the top dog and forgot about all the other guys."

Having won rings as a Laker and a Spur (not to mention as a Rocket), Horry knows of what he speaks. The Lakers' talent was exceeded only by their egos. It retarded their reign. The Spurs, by contrast, don't care who's the high scorer or the MVP. They follow Duncan's lead in that they care only about winning."

According to Horry, an insider if there ever was one, it was both Kobe and Shaq, not just Shaq.  Case closed.

yea, you forgot this part of the article:

Most agree that these Spurs are the best of San Antonio's four championship teams, and yet Horry doesn't believe they measure with the Lakers' 2001 title winner. "If I had to pick one team, it would be (2001) when we swept everyone except for Philly," Horry said. "That team was pretty awesome. It was like a locomotive coming through with no brakes."

This part isn't interesting at all. Who gives a fuck which team was better, they both won a title anyway. The interesting part is Horry saying both Kobe and Shaq destroyed it all because "those two guys wanted to be the top dog and forgot about all the other guys". THEM BOTH. Not just Shaq.

Stop it.

[teecee]

From a recent article on FoX:

"There is some debate in Los Angeles as to whether the Lakers' run of three consecutive championships is more impressive than the Spurs' four in nine years. It is not. Humility and teamwork are talents, too. And on those counts the Lakers fell short. "I hate to say it," said Derek Fisher, the point guard for those Laker teams, "but they're probably surpassing us. ... They have become the class of the league."

"Money hurt that team," Robert Horry said of the Lakers during Wednesday's interview session. "It came down to this guy wanted this much money, that guy wanted this much money. Those two guys" — he meant Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant — "wanted to be the top dog and forgot about all the other guys."

Having won rings as a Laker and a Spur (not to mention as a Rocket), Horry knows of what he speaks. The Lakers' talent was exceeded only by their egos. It retarded their reign. The Spurs, by contrast, don't care who's the high scorer or the MVP. They follow Duncan's lead in that they care only about winning."

According to Horry, an insider if there ever was one, it was both Kobe and Shaq, not just Shaq.  Case closed.

yea, you forgot this part of the article:

Most agree that these Spurs are the best of San Antonio's four championship teams, and yet Horry doesn't believe they measure with the Lakers' 2001 title winner. "If I had to pick one team, it would be (2001) when we swept everyone except for Philly," Horry said. "That team was pretty awesome. It was like a locomotive coming through with no brakes."

This part isn't interesting at all. Who gives a fuck which team was better, they both won a title anyway. The interesting part is Horry saying both Kobe and Shaq destroyed it all because "those two guys wanted to be the top dog and forgot about all the other guys". THEM BOTH. Not just Shaq.

Stop it.

Exactly; i left out that part of the article because i KNOW none of the Spurs team can fuck with the 01 Lakers.  I was trying to show, as you pointed out, that HORRY said it was BOTH of their faults, but it looks like that slid right past NIK

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

From a recent article on FoX:

"There is some debate in Los Angeles as to whether the Lakers' run of three consecutive championships is more impressive than the Spurs' four in nine years. It is not. Humility and teamwork are talents, too. And on those counts the Lakers fell short. "I hate to say it," said Derek Fisher, the point guard for those Laker teams, "but they're probably surpassing us. ... They have become the class of the league."

"Money hurt that team," Robert Horry said of the Lakers during Wednesday's interview session. "It came down to this guy wanted this much money, that guy wanted this much money. Those two guys" — he meant Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant — "wanted to be the top dog and forgot about all the other guys."

Having won rings as a Laker and a Spur (not to mention as a Rocket), Horry knows of what he speaks. The Lakers' talent was exceeded only by their egos. It retarded their reign. The Spurs, by contrast, don't care who's the high scorer or the MVP. They follow Duncan's lead in that they care only about winning."

According to Horry, an insider if there ever was one, it was both Kobe and Shaq, not just Shaq.  Case closed.

yea, you forgot this part of the article:

Most agree that these Spurs are the best of San Antonio's four championship teams, and yet Horry doesn't believe they measure with the Lakers' 2001 title winner. "If I had to pick one team, it would be (2001) when we swept everyone except for Philly," Horry said. "That team was pretty awesome. It was like a locomotive coming through with no brakes."

This part isn't interesting at all. Who gives a fuck which team was better, they both won a title anyway. The interesting part is Horry saying both Kobe and Shaq destroyed it all because "those two guys wanted to be the top dog and forgot about all the other guys". THEM BOTH. Not just Shaq.

Stop it.

The difference is, it was Kobe's turn to be the top dog. He was in every position to lead the Lakers...Shaq was unquestionably subsiding and Kobe was coming off of a career year where he shoulda' won the MVP. It was at a point where even the coach wanted Kobe in the lead role, but gave in to Shaq because of his personality... Jordan woulda' done the same. Imagine someone like Shaq doing Jordan's legacy in like he did to Kobe ...It was Shaq's turn to take a back seat for 3peat number two, and he simply wasn't ready.


Understand yet?

[Antonio_]

The difference is, it was Kobe's turn to be the top dog.

What the fuck is a top dog anyway? The #1 scorer of the team? Is it what it's all about? Or are you talking about money? Or about shitting on teammates like some Al Capone shit? Is it dissing Mitch and Bynum? Is it asking to be traded? Is it chosing the coach and the trades the team has to do? Is it to shot 11 straight times in the 4th quarter of Game1 of the PO without hitting a single fucking shot? What do you mean about being the "top dog"? Horry was never been a top dog, but he won 7 fucking titles and he's a legend to me. Fox wasn't a "top dog" but he was a very intelligent all-around player. Ron Harper, Derek Fisher, Brian Shaw, George, Lue.. those players weren't "top dogs", but hey, they played a big part in our dynasty too. Kobe was still 25 years old, damn. He should have focus more about the team and teammates. Shaq wanted a big fucking contract? Fine, he was a 3x MVP Finals type of player, negotiating the last contract of his career. Kobe should have waited 2-3 more years (til now, when it's obvious he's on another level) and then take the team over his shoulders. If it's true that he's all about WINNING, he should have done it.

Asking to be traded to the Bulls ( ) or the Knicks ( ) is just ridiculous. Expecially if the reason is "i wanna win NOW". Fucking idiot, if you wanna win take a fucking paycut and let the Lakers sign a superstar with the money saved. Or join the Spurs or the Suns. But please never ever name the Knicks again.

[7even]

He only considers the Knicks because they have an infinite amount of money and could give him the hugest contract extension a basketball player has ever seen. That and the fact that it's probably the biggest market next to LA. He could be remembered as the one who brought the Madison Square back. He wants that attention.

[Antonio_]

He only considers the Knicks because they have an infinite amount of money and could give him the hugest contract extension a basketball player has ever seen. That and the fact that it's probably the biggest market next to LA. He could be remembered as the one who brought the Madison Square back. He wants that attention.

I know. But that has nothing to do with winning championships. It's all about money & attention.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

The difference is, it was Kobe's turn to be the top dog.

What the fuck is a top dog anyway? The #1 scorer of the team? Is it what it's all about? Or are you talking about money? Or about shitting on teammates like some Al Capone shit? Is it dissing Mitch and Bynum? Is it asking to be traded? Is it chosing the coach and the trades the team has to do? Is it to shot 11 straight times in the 4th quarter of Game1 of the PO without hitting a single fucking shot? What do you mean about being the "top dog"? Horry was never been a top dog, but he won 7 fucking titles and he's a legend to me. Fox wasn't a "top dog" but he was a very intelligent all-around player. Ron Harper, Derek Fisher, Brian Shaw, George, Lue.. those players weren't "top dogs", but hey, they played a big part in our dynasty too. Kobe was still 25 years old, damn. He should have focus more about the team and teammates. Shaq wanted a big fucking contract? Fine, he was a 3x MVP Finals type of player, negotiating the last contract of his career. Kobe should have waited 2-3 more years (til now, when it's obvious he's on another level) and then take the team over his shoulders. If it's true that he's all about WINNING, he should have done it.

Asking to be traded to the Bulls ( ) or the Knicks ( ) is just ridiculous. Expecially if the reason is "i wanna win NOW". Fucking idiot, if you wanna win take a fucking paycut and let the Lakers sign a superstar with the money saved. Or join the Spurs or the Suns. But please never ever name the Knicks again.

LMAO@believing those media made reports....Please, Antonio, you've already disappointed me enough. You haven't learned ANYTHING.

ROFLMAO@"Kobe shoulda' waited for Shaq"...I'm sure Jordan woulda' waited in his prime. I'm sure Magic woulda waited in his prime...DR BUSS DIDNT EVEN WANNA PAY SHAQ ALL THAT MONEY! $30 MILLION A YEAR!!! THAT WOULDA HANDICAPPED THE TEAM FINANCUALLY FOR AN OUT-OF-SHAPE DOUCHEBAG... ANTONIO, ARE YOU BRAINDEAD? THAT'S WHAT YOU WANTED? Why are you having trouble admitting that Shaq was an asshole who wanted too much, and that's where the problem was...It's a shame that you blame people like Phil and Kobe over a childish moron like Shaq.

And ask around about what your boy Magic did in '82...PeACe

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

He only considers the Knicks because they have an infinite amount of money and could give him the hugest contract extension a basketball player has ever seen. That and the fact that it's probably the biggest market next to LA. He could be remembered as the one who brought the Madison Square back. He wants that attention.

I know. But that has nothing to do with winning championships. It's all about money & attention.

Yea...Kobe wants money and attention, not to win. Antonio, you fucking suck ass, bro. You did a complete 360. Honestly. I feel bad for you. The media has brainwashed you as well...PeACe

[Antonio_]

He only considers the Knicks because they have an infinite amount of money and could give him the hugest contract extension a basketball player has ever seen. That and the fact that it's probably the biggest market next to LA. He could be remembered as the one who brought the Madison Square back. He wants that attention.

I know. But that has nothing to do with winning championships. It's all about money & attention.

Yea...Kobe wants money and attention, not to win. Antonio, you fucking suck ass, bro. You did a complete 360. Honestly. I feel bad for you. The media has brainwashed you as well...PeACe

He wants to win in NYC, yeah.