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as a basketball referee, i cant see how thats not a clear charge. the defender was in positionQuote(if the defender)was still, or moving sideways or backwards but not forwards, when contact occurred took a legal guarding position before the contact, that is, one with both feet on the floor was hit on the torso (as opposed to the arm or leg) respected the elements of time and distance (is outside the restriction area, nba rules) then the offensive player was at fault and should be charged with a charging foul.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_foulhe fulfilled all premisesthats a clear charge.
(if the defender)was still, or moving sideways or backwards but not forwards, when contact occurred took a legal guarding position before the contact, that is, one with both feet on the floor was hit on the torso (as opposed to the arm or leg) respected the elements of time and distance (is outside the restriction area, nba rules) then the offensive player was at fault and should be charged with a charging foul.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_foul
Quote from: Maestro Minded / LME on December 27, 2007, 09:51:37 AMas a basketball referee, i cant see how thats not a clear charge. the defender was in positionQuote(if the defender)was still, or moving sideways or backwards but not forwards, when contact occurred took a legal guarding position before the contact, that is, one with both feet on the floor was hit on the torso (as opposed to the arm or leg) respected the elements of time and distance (is outside the restriction area, nba rules) then the offensive player was at fault and should be charged with a charging foul.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_foulhe fulfilled all premisesthats a clear charge.You must be the worst ref ever. You can't run under a guy who's making his move to the basket. You have to be in position before he picks up his dribble.
Quote from: Now_I_Know on December 27, 2007, 10:07:49 AMQuote from: Maestro Minded / LME on December 27, 2007, 09:51:37 AMas a basketball referee, i cant see how thats not a clear charge. the defender was in positionQuote(if the defender)was still, or moving sideways or backwards but not forwards, when contact occurred took a legal guarding position before the contact, that is, one with both feet on the floor was hit on the torso (as opposed to the arm or leg) respected the elements of time and distance (is outside the restriction area, nba rules) then the offensive player was at fault and should be charged with a charging foul.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_foulhe fulfilled all premisesthats a clear charge.You must be the worst ref ever. You can't run under a guy who's making his move to the basket. You have to be in position before he picks up his dribble.Here it is, i was about to write it. I'm not so fluent in english, but i'll try to explain it anyway. This thing quoted is not a rule, but it's what referees tend to do on those situations lately. I'm not a referee (no more) myself (i was been an amateur one tho), but my father is an ULEB/Euroleague Special Commissioneer and former international basketball referee, and we talked about this dunk when we both saw it on tv. It's like NIK wrote: since it's becoming too easy to stop penetration by simply stopping 1 second before the impact, referees now tend to punish defenders who intentionally run under/against a guy who's making his move to the basket. It's the exact same situation with Nash/Kobe, where Nash runs on Kobe and stops just 1 second before the impact. That's not the right philosophy. You have to be in one position but you should let the opponent finish his dunk/shot/move without intentionally running on him.So even if it was tecnichally a charge, they call it a defensive foul to punish the defender.
Quote from: Antonio on December 27, 2007, 10:52:19 AMQuote from: Now_I_Know on December 27, 2007, 10:07:49 AMQuote from: Maestro Minded / LME on December 27, 2007, 09:51:37 AMas a basketball referee, i cant see how thats not a clear charge. the defender was in positionQuote(if the defender)was still, or moving sideways or backwards but not forwards, when contact occurred took a legal guarding position before the contact, that is, one with both feet on the floor was hit on the torso (as opposed to the arm or leg) respected the elements of time and distance (is outside the restriction area, nba rules) then the offensive player was at fault and should be charged with a charging foul.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_foulhe fulfilled all premisesthats a clear charge.You must be the worst ref ever. You can't run under a guy who's making his move to the basket. You have to be in position before he picks up his dribble.Here it is, i was about to write it. I'm not so fluent in english, but i'll try to explain it anyway. This thing quoted is not a rule, but it's what referees tend to do on those situations lately. I'm not a referee (no more) myself (i was been an amateur one tho), but my father is an ULEB/Euroleague Special Commissioneer and former international basketball referee, and we talked about this dunk when we both saw it on tv. It's like NIK wrote: since it's becoming too easy to stop penetration by simply stopping 1 second before the impact, referees now tend to punish defenders who intentionally run under/against a guy who's making his move to the basket. It's the exact same situation with Nash/Kobe, where Nash runs on Kobe and stops just 1 second before the impact. That's not the right philosophy. You have to be in one position but you should let the opponent finish his dunk/shot/move without intentionally running on him.So even if it was tecnichally a charge, they call it a defensive foul to punish the defender.(ill just bypass any post from NIK as im not in the mood to discuss with him)i can find that argument somewhat valid , but still, he went "recklessly" forward with his knee/feet hitting the opponent first. you can't dunk like you're practicing thai-boxing (flying knee-kicks) the guard was actually in position before trevor even jumped. furthermore, from this clip () it looks like the guard is sliding to the left, which means that even BEFORE the slide, he was in position.but i dont watch NBA, i don't know how they interpret their rules, but in FIBA, imo , thats a foul.i gotta admit though that the foul call isnt as clear as i said.
Grant Hill never stopped moving his feet...therefore its a blocking foul.This dunk reminds me a lot of Kobe's dunk on Nash.
Quote from: GangstaBoogy on December 27, 2007, 12:01:31 PMGrant Hill never stopped moving his feet...therefore its a blocking foul.This dunk reminds me a lot of Kobe's dunk on Nash. a defender can move his feets and still be in position as long as he's moving backwards or sideways.
Quote from: Maestro Minded / LME on December 27, 2007, 12:19:48 PMQuote from: GangstaBoogy on December 27, 2007, 12:01:31 PMGrant Hill never stopped moving his feet...therefore its a blocking foul.This dunk reminds me a lot of Kobe's dunk on Nash. a defender can move his feet and still be in position as long as he's moving backwards or sideways.Mmmm.. no. He can't move his feets, man. That's the rule #1, forgot that?
Quote from: GangstaBoogy on December 27, 2007, 12:01:31 PMGrant Hill never stopped moving his feet...therefore its a blocking foul.This dunk reminds me a lot of Kobe's dunk on Nash. a defender can move his feet and still be in position as long as he's moving backwards or sideways.
When judging a block/charge situation involving a player with the ball, an official shall use the following principles:• The defensive player must establish an initial legal guarding position by facing the player with the ball and having both feet on the floor.• The defensive player may remain stationary, jump vertically, move laterally or move backwards in order to maintain the initial legal guarding position.• When moving to maintain the initial legal guarding position, one or both feet may be off the floor for an instant, as long as the movement is lateral or backwards, but not towards the player with the ball.• Contact must occur on the torso, in which case the defensive player would be considered as having been at the place of contact first.• Having established a legal guarding position the defensive player may turn within his cylinder to cushion any blow or to avoid injury.In the event of any of the above situations, the contact shall be considered as having been caused by the player with the ball.http://www.fiba.com/asp_scripts/downMana.asp?fileID=328
LOL@I-BO.NBA Foul & Penalty RulesSnippetSection II--By Dribblera A dribbler shall not (1) charge into an opponent who has established a legal guarding position, or (2) attempt to dribble between two opponents, or (3) attempt to dribble between an opponent and a boundary, where sufficient space is not avail-able for illegal contact to be avoided.b. If a defender is able to establish a legal position in the straight line path of the dribbler, the dribbler must avoid contact by changing direction or ending his dribble.c. The dribbler must be in control of his body at all times. If illegal contact occurs (*heading knee first for example), the responsibility is on the dribbler. PENALTY: The offender is assessed an offensive foul. There is no team foul. The ball is awarded to the offended team on the sideline nearest the spot where play was interrupted but no nearer to the baseline than the free throw line extended.EXCEPTION: Rule 3--Section I--a.d. If a dribbler has sufficient space to have his head and shoulders in advance of his defender, the responsibility for illegal contact is on the defender.e. If a dribbler has established a straight line path, a defender may not crowd him out of that path.PENALTY: The defender shall be assessed a personal foul and a team foul. If the penalty is not in effect, the offended team is awarded the ball on the sideline nearest the spot where play was interrupted but no nearer to the baseline than the free throw line extended. If the penalty is in effect, one free throw attempt plus a penalty free throw attempt is awarded.
a defender can move his feet and still be in position as long as he's moving backwards or sideways.
Section II--By Dribblera. A dribbler shall not (1) charge into an opponent who has established a legal guarding position, or (2) attempt to dribble between two opponents, or (3) attempt to dribble between an opponent and a boundary, where sufficient space is not avail-able for illegal contact to be avoided.b. If a defender is able to establish a legal position in the straight line path of the dribbler, the dribbler must avoid contact by changing direction or ending his dribble.c. The dribbler must be in control of his body at all times. If illegal contact occurs (*heading knee first for example), the responsibility is on the dribbler.