Author Topic: Can one be totally unselfish?  (Read 561 times)

Maestro Minded

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Can one be totally unselfish?
« on: January 24, 2008, 05:04:03 PM »
I’ve never met an unselfish man during my entire life, nor have I ever heard of one. Can one completely disregard himself and do something to please somebody else? I think that maybe one must be completely apathetic to be able to perform a non egocentric deed. This discussion may, philosophically, be on a quite high level so I will disregard any poster I feel doesn’t understand my thoughts.
 

7even

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Re: Can one be totally unselfish?
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2008, 05:11:29 PM »
I think my dad is a completely unselfish person. It depends how you look at it, though. I mean, to some people it can be extremely fulfilling to help people without getting anything in return. True goodness implies reward in itself. So you could argue that even those selfless acts are selfish to a certain degree. I guess you are aware of that conception, otherwise I can't understand how you come to the conclusion that nobody is able to perform a non egocentric deed. I have performed those kind of deeds on several occasions. So if you truly never met a person like that in your entire life, "hello".
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

Maestro Minded

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Re: Can one be totally unselfish?
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2008, 05:18:15 PM »
I think my dad is a completely unselfish person. It depends how you look at it, though. I mean, to some people it can be extremely fulfilling to help people without getting anything in return. True goodness implies reward in itself. So you could argue that even those selfless acts are selfish to a certain degree. I guess you are aware of that conception, otherwise I can't understand how you come to the conclusion that nobody is able to perform a non egocentric deed. I have performed those kind of deeds on several occasions. So if you truly never met a person like that in your entire life, "hello".

if your dad would have to choose between saving your life or the life of a unknown guy, what would he do? i'll take it a step further, if your dad would have to choose betwee saving the life of his mother, lets say she's 60 years old, or saving the life or saving the life of a 15 years old girl in china, what would he do?

and im just dipping my finger in the water here as you probably already know...
 

Nat Turner-reincarnated

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Re: Can one be totally unselfish?
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2008, 05:29:34 PM »
I’ve never met an unselfish man during my entire life, nor have I ever heard of one. Can one completely disregard himself and do something to please somebody else? I think that maybe one must be completely apathetic to be able to perform a non egocentric deed. This discussion may, philosophically, be on a quite high level so I will disregard any poster I feel doesn’t understand my thoughts.
i aint tryin to beep my on horn, but my niggas consider me unselfish. ive bent my back backwards for my niggas and my blood family (nothing to do with bloods/piru or that bullshit, my real family) if they ever needed anything, they got it. niggas me hitting me up late in the morning, and i pick up whether no matter what to come to the aid, if they need anything.
 

7even

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Re: Can one be totally unselfish?
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2008, 05:56:00 PM »
I think my dad is a completely unselfish person. It depends how you look at it, though. I mean, to some people it can be extremely fulfilling to help people without getting anything in return. True goodness implies reward in itself. So you could argue that even those selfless acts are selfish to a certain degree. I guess you are aware of that conception, otherwise I can't understand how you come to the conclusion that nobody is able to perform a non egocentric deed. I have performed those kind of deeds on several occasions. So if you truly never met a person like that in your entire life, "hello".

if your dad would have to choose between saving your life or the life of a unknown guy, what would he do? i'll take it a step further, if your dad would have to choose betwee saving the life of his mother, lets say she's 60 years old, or saving the life or saving the life of a 15 years old girl in china, what would he do?

and im just dipping my finger in the water here as you probably already know...


Umm... sorry, but it is pretty normal to choose the life of a kin over the life of some random chink. Doesn't make anybody egocentric.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

Maestro Minded

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Re: Can one be totally unselfish?
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2008, 06:11:03 PM »
I think my dad is a completely unselfish person. It depends how you look at it, though. I mean, to some people it can be extremely fulfilling to help people without getting anything in return. True goodness implies reward in itself. So you could argue that even those selfless acts are selfish to a certain degree. I guess you are aware of that conception, otherwise I can't understand how you come to the conclusion that nobody is able to perform a non egocentric deed. I have performed those kind of deeds on several occasions. So if you truly never met a person like that in your entire life, "hello".

if your dad would have to choose between saving your life or the life of a unknown guy, what would he do? i'll take it a step further, if your dad would have to choose betwee saving the life of his mother, lets say she's 60 years old, or saving the life or saving the life of a 15 years old girl in china, what would he do?

and im just dipping my finger in the water here as you probably already know...


Umm... sorry, but it is pretty normal to choose the life of a kin over the life of some random chink. Doesn't make anybody egocentric.

uhm yea it does because you value the life of somebody in your family, that has lived for lets say 60 years, higher than the life of somebody that has his/her entire life ahead. how can that not be selfish?
notice though that i'm not saying that it's un-normal to think like that.
 

Elevz

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Re: Can one be totally unselfish?
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2008, 06:42:37 PM »
Being the Objectivist that I am, I regard selfishness as a virtue. Selfishness is simply the "concern with one's own interests". It would be a negation of the facts of life to place anyone else's interests above your own. Therefore, I strongly believe in ethical hedonism as being the way to act socially, as opposed to 'genuine altruism'. If there's nothing in it for you to gain, you have no reason to act. Gaining is a vague term though; just someone showing you their respect, or even the feeling of a moral virtue can be enough to make a seemingly unselfish deed an act of ethical hedonism.

I believe it all starts with your view on mankind. If you have a certain vision of what man should be like, and what should be considered virtues and what they should be praised for, you will be able to judge them for what they're worth. 'Unselfish' behavior then becomes an pledge for your own moral purity. How unselfish is that, really? It's perfectly selfish.
 

Elevz

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Re: Can one be totally unselfish?
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2008, 06:46:03 PM »
Besides, in response to the thread title... It is impossible for someone to be totally unselfish. I stated it as a negation of the facts of life, and a small example should do.

If you regard someone else's interests as more important than your own, you're basically submitting yourself. It means you've totally devaluated your own life. That means you'll have to give your last crust of bread to someone else, because that would be unselfish. You die, someone else who is less unselfish lives. Huh?
Such is the nature of unselfishness, and altruism on a whole. Now tell me, is unselfishness really as virtuous as it seemed?
 

Maestro Minded

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Re: Can one be totally unselfish?
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2008, 07:52:18 PM »
Being the Objectivist that I am, I regard selfishness as a virtue. Selfishness is simply the "concern with one's own interests". It would be a negation of the facts of life to place anyone else's interests above your own. Therefore, I strongly believe in ethical hedonism as being the way to act socially, as opposed to 'genuine altruism'. If there's nothing in it for you to gain, you have no reason to act. Gaining is a vague term though; just someone showing you their respect, or even the feeling of a moral virtue can be enough to make a seemingly unselfish deed an act of ethical hedonism.

I believe it all starts with your view on mankind. If you have a certain vision of what man should be like, and what should be considered virtues and what they should be praised for, you will be able to judge them for what they're worth. 'Unselfish' behavior then becomes an pledge for your own moral purity. How unselfish is that, really? It's perfectly selfish.

Besides, in response to the thread title... It is impossible for someone to be totally unselfish. I stated it as a negation of the facts of life, and a small example should do.

If you regard someone else's interests as more important than your own, you're basically submitting yourself. It means you've totally devaluated your own life. That means you'll have to give your last crust of bread to someone else, because that would be unselfish. You die, someone else who is less unselfish lives. Huh?
Such is the nature of unselfishness, and altruism on a whole. Now tell me, is unselfishness really as virtuous as it seemed?

you understand me perfectly... i have nothing more to say... i ididnt write it myself as i wanted to see if somebody else would think that way.

even religion is a selfish concept since the whole point with it is for the individual to be humble and follow specific rules to eventually earn the biggest prize one can get.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2008, 07:57:57 PM by Maestro Minded / LME »
 

Sikotic™

Re: Can one be totally unselfish?
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2008, 08:57:56 PM »
No such thing. Being selfish is part of being human.
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Elevz

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Re: Can one be totally unselfish?
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2008, 01:58:06 AM »
No such thing. Being selfish is part of being human.

Isn't it weird how unselfishness is seen as a virtue?
 

7even

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Re: Can one be totally unselfish?
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2008, 04:11:18 AM »
^Is exploitation a virtue to you?
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

7even

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Re: Can one be totally unselfish?
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2008, 04:14:04 AM »
I think my dad is a completely unselfish person. It depends how you look at it, though. I mean, to some people it can be extremely fulfilling to help people without getting anything in return. True goodness implies reward in itself. So you could argue that even those selfless acts are selfish to a certain degree. I guess you are aware of that conception, otherwise I can't understand how you come to the conclusion that nobody is able to perform a non egocentric deed. I have performed those kind of deeds on several occasions. So if you truly never met a person like that in your entire life, "hello".

if your dad would have to choose between saving your life or the life of a unknown guy, what would he do? i'll take it a step further, if your dad would have to choose betwee saving the life of his mother, lets say she's 60 years old, or saving the life or saving the life of a 15 years old girl in china, what would he do?

and im just dipping my finger in the water here as you probably already know...


Umm... sorry, but it is pretty normal to choose the life of a kin over the life of some random chink. Doesn't make anybody egocentric.

uhm yea it does because you value the life of somebody in your family, that has lived for lets say 60 years, higher than the life of somebody that has his/her entire life ahead. how can that not be selfish?
notice though that i'm not saying that it's un-normal to think like that.

I wouldn't expatiate the term "selfish" like this.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

Elevz

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Re: Can one be totally unselfish?
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2008, 05:47:13 AM »
^Is exploitation a virtue to you?

"The act of employing to the greatest possible advantage"

Yes.

Strictly speaking, the greatest possible advantage wouldn't be the greatest possible advantage if it had some nasty con to it. Thing is, people do not look at it from all directions, so ultimately there's a whole gang of corporate heads who make money just for the sake of making money. Instead of achieving it as a well considered value, they choose not to consider the effects of their actions. Yes, you can exploit children in Africa and Asia all you want (it's happening after all), but it does have a down side when it comes to your own sense of being a human being. If you think that lowly of man and his potentials and rights, that does say something about the depraved state of your own morality. You'll need some serious psychological defense mechanisms to block that off. And defense mechanisms are a distortion of the perception of reality, meaning it will come back at you in the shape of mental unstableness.

Selfishness requires rationality and reasonability to be good. You can't fool yourself whilst trying to be selfish, because it'll turn against you.

With that being said, I believe it is impossible for man to ever achieve the level of rationality it takes for selfish actions to become harmless. Just having a well trained morality should definately make a difference however. I am selfish, but that doesn't make me a self-centered asshole. I value things around me that I find worth valuing.

If you ask me, exploitation is simply to make the best possible out of something. It is always good to strive for the best, is it not?
 

7even

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Re: Can one be totally unselfish?
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2008, 06:00:28 AM »
If I were a person that had an untameable urge to torture random people to death, I'd kill myself. It is not always good to strive for what's best for you as an individual, one has to put things in relation to each other, if your advantage far outweighs the harm done to the rest of them niggas, then yes, strive for it. If the opposite is the case, don't. Call me a Kantist, but I wouldn't act in a way that I'd hate another nigga for.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin