Kobe Ain't No MJ

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

NIK, i agree with you that Kobe is arguably more talented or skilled then Jordan.  Fine, i accept that.  Watching him is like watching Jordan, a clone almost, and i think that is why Jordan fans get a bit touchy, and same with Kobe fans.  No one wants "their" guy to not be cionsidered the best.

BUT, in the end its all about results and accomplishments, not skills.  Can Kobe still surpass Jordan?  Of course he can, and he may very well do so.  BUt has a LONG WAYS to go.  Yes, Jordan had help, but name a one man bball team who has one a title?  All i know is Jordan was the MAIN factor and if you watched those games and series you know that.  Especially the one against the Jazz where he scored ALL of the big baskets.

Jordan PPG, APG, RPG all went up in the playoffs, and he was far and away the best player in 6 finals series.

As of now, Kobe has never been the best player in a finals series despite being in four.  And his numbers go down.  I know, it isnt all about numbers granted.  BUt we have all watched the series and Kobe has not been great. I was expecting, an i am sure we all were, a 400 ppg avg, or maybe close to a triple double.  Definitely not what we have seen.

Kobe himself will tell you he hasnt played well this series.  He has had spurts, and made a huge steal last night to cement the win.  BUt he has not been nearly as good so far as he should be

^Good points. Kobe definitely can play better than he has been in these Finals. I honestly think he's deferring wayyy too much on offense. But even the best of the best can't be perfect... though, there is always a certain aspect of the game the great ones excell in, even when they're not dominating the outlook of it. Just like Kobe, with his excellent defense last night (5 steals). Kobe is known to step up to the plate when it counts most. He's just been handeling business... the kind of player where he'll ALWAYS do his part and give it his all. Jordan, as of now, is the more ACCOMPLISHED athlete, not the BETTER athlete. At the end of the day, Kobe has a bright future ahead of him. People are forgetting he's still fairly young and keep acting like he's at the end of his career...Give it some time before you talk down upon the best in the business.

NIK, i dont want to get into this with you again man.  But i am almost positive you always say that steals actually mean someone is a bad defender, not a good one.  But yet when Kobe gets 5 steals, it means he is good?  Kobe IS a good defender so its all good, but you know people are going to interpret this as a major bias, right? 

help yourself out man, you continually contradict yourself and come off as more of a Kobe fan than a Laker fan.   everyone is making you look ridiculous again man.  Come on, you know it and i know it.  It is sad. 

And you know what?  Kobe may be more skilled then Jordan, but skill is SUBJECTIVE homie. Accomplishments are not.  WE can speculate and say KB24 will surpass MJ, but as of now it still isnt even close.  MJ LED his team to 5 titles.  Kobe hasnt done it once.  I am sure he will a few times, but anything can happen.  Take this series for instance.  I thought Kobe would be unstoppable, but he hasnt even been the best player in the series.  Kobe has made me a believer this season; i often find myself defending him.  However, how can the undisputed best player in the league not be able to shine on the biggest stage in sports??? 

Like I said...steals you collect off of gambling and playing off your man are a result of bad defense. Kobe is a great defender and all his steals are clean steals. It might sound bias, but it is what it is. Kobe is not playing his best ball, I already admitted that, but he IS getting double teamed instantly with suffocating defense, and he's been imposing his will in other aspects, even when he's not scoring big (a 10 assist game, a 5 steal game, etc.)... As of now, the games the Lakers lost are the games where Gasol and Odom played like complete shit. I find myself wondering why Kobe is deferring so much, but in the same breath, I answer my own question... Lakers can't win without Gasol and Odom and someone has to get them going off. Kobe can go off at anytime, but it'll take a collective team effort to win. Just like in Game 4, when LA choked the lead away. Kobe went for 10 in the 4th quarter of that game, more than he scored in the first 3 quarters combined, but it was Odom and Gasol who let down and stopped performing...Just give it time before you say they're not on the same level. I've always said, Kobe placed under MJ's circumstances woulda had more titles than Jordan collected. That's just my opinion, and whether you think it's bias or not, it's what I truly think after watching Kobe all these years...PeACe

Dude, i get what you are saying.  But common sense says it is YOU who should give it time before you say they ARE on the same level.  Ask anyone in the NBA, they all know dudes from the playground with more ABILITY, SKILL, TALENT, etc.  Those things alone dont make you the greatest player in the history of the game, which is what MJ is until Kobe, or maybe even Lebron passes  him.  And if i have to give Kobe time, you best do the same for LBJ because he is sick and getting better. 

I'm saying they're on the same level skillwise (Kobe actually having the edge), which even you acknowledged is definitely debatable, and that he's on pace to ending his career as the GOAT. Why do I need to wait to say that? It's the people who say he's out of the question and not in the runnings who need to let up, homie...That's unfair, above everything else. I'm giving LBJ time too, because sky is the limit for him... but as of now, he's nowhere near Kobe or Jordan skillwise...PeACe

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

^You are the biggest hater with the dumbest arguments ever...Kobe didn't win an NCAA championship because he didn't play in the NCAA. Kobe didn't win rookie of the year award cuz he started off the bench, straight outta high school. Kobe hasn't even had the opportunity to play for a gold medal yet. How can you even use those pathetic arguments against him without feeling ashamed of yourself? You use Shaq being on the Lakers against Kobe when it's convenient, but when it comes to Shaq getting most of the shooting touches and demanding the offense run through him (even when Phil wanted it running through Kobe), you somehow forget to bring up the fact that it subtracted from Kobe's overall averages. Pippen was a facilitator, he helped Jordan score. Shaq was a ball-dominant scorer, he demanded touches that woulda been Kobe's otherwise. Jordan never had to play and prove he can co-exist with a player like that. He never had to put his skill in check and defer to an egotistical character such as Shaq. Kobe does whatever it takes to win, no matter what. This year, we're playing without our starting center, and we're still in the Finals. That's something Kobe deserves CREDIT for, not BLAME, cuzzzzz...PeACe

dumbest arguments? like making up lies about jordan's # of titles at 29 to make kobe look better? nah, thats u jewboy.

hahaha @ u piccin and choosin numbers now. i like how u ignore the fact that ur jew ass was wrong about jordan's number of titles at 29. plus like i said this year when kobe loses to the c's he'll be 30 with 3 rings, just like jordan at 30. except jordan didnt have a monster center like shaq to ride to 3 rings (shaq's numbers were always bigger than kobe's and he was the clear finals mvp each year). so jordan as a leader at 29 > kobe as a leader at 29.

now u wanna ignore the NUMBERS at 29, makin excuses for the fact kobe has NOWHERE near the all around basketball accomplishments or numbers at 29 that jordan did. even if u wanna conveniently ignore the fact that at 29 he was already a 2 time olympic gold medalist, ncaa champion, acc rookie of the year and 2 time college player of the year, theres still a GANG more shit he did.

at 29 jordan was a 2 time(about to be 3) nba world champion,  nba rookie of the year, 3 time mvp, 3 time finals mvp, 6 time scorin champion, all time finals ppg leader(41/game) only the 2nd player ever to score 3000 points in a season, nba defensive player of the year, only player to ever have 200 steals and 100 blocs in one season, all star starter as a rookie, 2 time slam dunk champion, at 29 jordan had lost ZERO of the finals he had played in, kobe at 29 already lost 1 and is about to lose his 2nd. what a winner  how many of those things is kobe at 29? hahahaha.

jordan finals record at 30 = 3-0 (3-0 as leader)
kobe finals record at 30 = 3-1(probably about to be 3-2) (0 as leader, about to be 0-1)

like i said cuzz, when u look at basketball numbers and accomplishments, jordan had far more at 29/30 than kobe does at 29/30.

jordan at this age > kobe at the same age

take the L you bitch ass nicca, everybody else is laughin at yo jew ass avoidin the NUMBERS showin jordan easily ahead of kobe at 29. go cry in your kobe towel

I didn't lie about anything, I was 1 year off...still, the point was that Kobe has collected more titles than Jordan has at the same age. And Kobe wasn't handed a team built around him right off the bat. If he did, I could argue he'd have 5-6+ titles by now. The fact of the matter is that winning rings is no way to measure who's greater as an individual talent. When you compare who had the better career (after Kobe retires), you can talk about that, but in terms of talent, that simply doesn't factor into the equation...of course, you're way too stupid and below me to understand jack shit about what I'm saying, so I'll leave it at that. Just realize how stupid you sound using Jordan's NCAA titles and gold medals against Kobe when Kobe never even had the chance to play in an NCAA or olympic game...Kobe has also broken many of Jordan's records, as well. Games in a row with 50+, 35+, highest scoring total in a game, 3 quarter scoring total, etc. etc....accomplishments and statistics is not what measures talent, though. Watching the players play is how you do it. You'll never understand this and I don't expect you to...PeACe

[blue crew]

I didn't lie about anything, I was 1 year off...still, the point was that Kobe has collected more titles than Jordan has at the same age. And Kobe wasn't handed a team built around him right off the bat. If he did, I could argue he'd have 5-6+ titles by now. The fact of the matter is that winning rings is no way to measure who's greater as an individual talent. When you compare who had the better career (after Kobe retires), you can talk about that, but in terms of talent, that simply doesn't factor into the equation...of course, you're way too stupid and below me to understand jack shit about what I'm saying, so I'll leave it at that. Just realize how stupid you sound using Jordan's NCAA titles and gold medals against Kobe when Kobe never even had the chance to play in an NCAA or olympic game...Kobe has also broken many of Jordan's records, as well. Games in a row with 50+, 35+, highest scoring total in a game, 3 quarter scoring total, etc. etc....accomplishments and statistics is not what measures talent, though. Watching the players play is how you do it. You'll never understand this and I don't expect you to...PeACe

hahaha, look at yo jew ass bactracc quic as fuc. first u said

Lets see...Jordan@29=1 title. Kobe@29=3 titles...Still LOL@"not close when you list accomplishments".

which is wrong, and u still wrong saying kobe has more titles at the same age, like i just pointed out 3 times for ur slow jew ass, kobe at 29/30 has 3 titles (thanks to shaq) and jordan had 3 titles at 29/30. i dont need to make up shiet like u, talkin about 'well if this and if that, i imagine kobe woulda had bla bla bla"...nicca this is the real world, not no kobeland that u live in. in the REAL world, kobe was handed 3 titles as shaq's sidekicc, and he hasn't silence no one cuz he still cant win just ONE without shaq in 5  years. shaq even left and got another ring with wade replacing kobe. im sure yo groupie ass COULD argue about kobe having 5 or 6 make believe titles right now, just like u can dream that u'll wake up next to kobe in bed, but it aint REALITY.

hahaha @ u NOW sayin u wanna talk about who had the better 'career' after kobe retires, but just before that u were saying...

COMPARE THEIR NUMBERS WITH JORDAN AT 29, DIPSHIT, NOT WHEN HE'S DONE WITH HIS CAREER.

once i showed u that the NUMBERS at 29 CLEARLY show jordan was better at the same age in every single category, you bactrac. i didnt use the ncaa shit or olympic, if ur gay jew ass woulda actually READ the shiet instead of jaccin off to kobe videos on youtube, u woulda seen that i said "even if u ignore the accomplishments at 29 like ncaa titles, players of the year and 2 gold medals) which is real convenient by the way, even without those numbers, jordan's accomplishents/NUMBERS at 29 still shiet all over kobe. isn't that what u said to do, compare their numbers with jordan at 29, dipshiet? hahaha, u said to compare the numbers, and now u wanan say its not about numbers. groupie bitch

u lose, wrap it up cuzz, u look desperate.

once again, jordan at 29 > kobe at 29. the NUMBERS show it. keep on dreamin tho, im sure u can imagine some nice what ifs, meanwhile everybody who aint a gay homer will look at the real shiet. you lose.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

^Like I said, Kobe has broken many of Jordan's records...and Jordan hasn't gotten 3 titles by 29, so stop stretching the age to make yourself sound better. If Kobe has 3 titles at 29 and has broken his scoring records, despite spending most of his career with a ball-dominant center, then he clearly has done better by this age... Anyways, it's worthless arguing with you. You're a fake crip, probably from Germany or some shit, and you tend to measure Kobe's level of play based on your hate for him. I've watched both Kobe and Jordan playing growing up, and that's how I measure which player is better. Kobe is a better player and will end his career with the proof, if my analysis comes to fruition. Right now, Kobe has done more in his NBA career than Jordan at this age. If you're gunna use stats to measure shit, don't ignore all of Kobe's records while only listing Jordan's, cuz that makes your hate look even more pathetic...PeACe

[blue crew]

^Like I said, Kobe has broken many of Jordan's records...and Jordan hasn't gotten 3 titles by 29, so stop stretching the age to make yourself sound better. If Kobe has 3 titles at 29 and has broken his scoring records, despite spending most of his career with a ball-dominant center, then he clearly has done better by this age... Anyways, it's worthless arguing with you. You're a fake crip, probably from Germany or some shit, and you tend to measure Kobe's level of play based on your hate for him. I've watched both Kobe and Jordan playing growing up, and that's how I measure which player is better. Kobe is a better player and will end his career with the proof, if my analysis comes to fruition. Right now, Kobe has done more in his NBA career than Jordan at this age. If you're gunna use stats to measure shit, don't ignore all of Kobe's records while only listing Jordan's, cuz that makes your hate look even more pathetic...PeACe

u aint very smart are u jew? first off kobe may have broken SOME of jordan's records, but he hasn't broken a MAJORITY of the records jordan had at 29. its been proven in this topic that u just say false shiet (# of jordan titles at 29) and hope nobody calls ur pathetic ass on the truth. like i said with the age shiet, after kobe loses to the celtics, he'll have 3 titles at 30 years old, the SAME as jordan. and the whole point that ur jew ass dont get is that its not fair to compare 2 players agewise when one started much earlier than the other in the NBA, just like i didnt actually compare jordans ncaa shit to kobe, since kobe skipped college. u may wanna get all technical about 4 months cuz it makes kobe look better and your in love with him, but its some gay shiet to try and sneak out the reality, which is that jordan ACCOMPLISHED more than kobe at the same age. so kobe hasn't "clearly done better by this age". you measure who is better by your personal, biased opinion from watchin them? hahahaha, if thats the best way to measure players, people might as well stop taking stats. u dumbfucc,  opinions are like assholes, thats why niccas keep stats to BACC OPINIONS UP. you keep sayin shiet with no FACTS, like "kobe has done more in his nba career than jordan" except thats about as true as your fake jordan title count. i LISTED jordan's UNMATCHED nba accomplishments because MY ARGUMENT is that jordan is better at the same age. if i was arguin that KOBE IS BETTER, than i woulda listed PROOF to bacc up that shiet. you cant do that cuz that 'proof' dont exist, or as u like to put it, it's 'FUTURE PROOF' ahahahha. what the fuc is future proof? the reality is jordan has more unmatched NBA records at 29 than kobe does. kobe might have some, but jordan has MORE. get it?

jordan's nba accomplishments at 29 > kobe's nba accomplishments at 29 (i posted PROOF, you posted jacc shiet except your groupie luv opinion)

since ur too dumb to realize that comparin age accomplishments for people who started their nba careers at different ages is stupid (even tho the NUMBERS show jordan did more at the same age) i'll break it down real simple fo yo jewbacca ass.

jordan in first 9 nba seasons = 3 titles (all as UNDISPUTED leader, all with nba finals records and 3 nba finals mvps aka BEST player on biggest nba stage) he also had 6 titles in his first 13 seasons, which is double kobe's number of titles in teh same amount of years)
kobe in first 12 nba seasons = 3 titles  (all as shaq's sidekicc. less points and ZERO finals mvps aka NOT THE BEST player on biggest nba stage)

so jordan had the same number of titles in 3 less seasons, and double the kobe titles in the same amount of time. even if kobe wins next year, he'll have 4 rings in 13 seasons, when jordan had 6 in 13 seasons.

thats undisputedly proof that in the same amount of total seasons(actually 3 seasons less), jordan had more rings, more scoring titles, more mvps, more defensive players of the year, more rookie of the year, more seasons scoring 3000 points, more finals mvps, more finals records, LESS FINALS LOSSES.

however you wanan look at it, jordan has better numbers in the same or less amount of seasons/same point in career vs kobes.

[Turf Hitta]

I didn't lie about anything, I was 1 year off...still, the point was that Kobe has collected more titles than Jordan has at the same age. And Kobe wasn't handed a team built around him right off the bat. If he did, I could argue he'd have 5-6+ titles by now. The fact of the matter is that winning rings is no way to measure who's greater as an individual talent. When you compare who had the better career (after Kobe retires), you can talk about that, but in terms of talent, that simply doesn't factor into the equation...of course, you're way too stupid and below me to understand jack shit about what I'm saying, so I'll leave it at that. Just realize how stupid you sound using Jordan's NCAA titles and gold medals against Kobe when Kobe never even had the chance to play in an NCAA or olympic game...Kobe has also broken many of Jordan's records, as well. Games in a row with 50+, 35+, highest scoring total in a game, 3 quarter scoring total, etc. etc....accomplishments and statistics is not what measures talent, though. Watching the players play is how you do it. You'll never understand this and I don't expect you to...PeACe

hahaha, look at yo jew ass bactracc quic as fuc. first u said

Lets see...Jordan@29=1 title. Kobe@29=3 titles...Still LOL@"not close when you list accomplishments".

which is wrong, and u still wrong saying kobe has more titles at the same age, like i just pointed out 3 times for ur slow jew ass, kobe at 29/30 has 3 titles (thanks to shaq) and jordan had 3 titles at 29/30. i dont need to make up shiet like u, talkin about 'well if this and if that, i imagine kobe woulda had bla bla bla"...nicca this is the real world, not no kobeland that u live in. in the REAL world, kobe was handed 3 titles as shaq's sidekicc, and he hasn't silence no one cuz he still cant win just ONE without shaq in 5  years. shaq even left and got another ring with wade replacing kobe. im sure yo groupie ass COULD argue about kobe having 5 or 6 make believe titles right now, just like u can dream that u'll wake up next to kobe in bed, but it aint REALITY.

hahaha @ u NOW sayin u wanna talk about who had the better 'career' after kobe retires, but just before that u were saying...

COMPARE THEIR NUMBERS WITH JORDAN AT 29, DIPSHIT, NOT WHEN HE'S DONE WITH HIS CAREER.

once i showed u that the NUMBERS at 29 CLEARLY show jordan was better at the same age in every single category, you bactrac. i didnt use the ncaa shit or olympic, if ur gay jew ass woulda actually READ the shiet instead of jaccin off to kobe videos on youtube, u woulda seen that i said "even if u ignore the accomplishments at 29 like ncaa titles, players of the year and 2 gold medals) which is real convenient by the way, even without those numbers, jordan's accomplishents/NUMBERS at 29 still shiet all over kobe. isn't that what u said to do, compare their numbers with jordan at 29, dipshiet? hahaha, u said to compare the numbers, and now u wanan say its not about numbers. groupie bitch

u lose, wrap it up cuzz, u look desperate.

once again, jordan at 29 > kobe at 29. the NUMBERS show it. keep on dreamin tho, im sure u can imagine some nice what ifs, meanwhile everybody who aint a gay homer will look at the real shiet. you lose.

And on top of all that, his shoes are way better and McDonald's needs to bring back the Gold Medal Meal that came with the plastic Dream Team cups in 1992.

[cyence]

^Like I said, Kobe has broken many of Jordan's records...and Jordan hasn't gotten 3 titles by 29, so stop stretching the age to make yourself sound better. If Kobe has 3 titles at 29 and has broken his scoring records, despite spending most of his career with a ball-dominant center, then he clearly has done better by this age... Anyways, it's worthless arguing with you. You're a fake crip, probably from Germany or some shit, and you tend to measure Kobe's level of play based on your hate for him. I've watched both Kobe and Jordan playing growing up, and that's how I measure which player is better. Kobe is a better player and will end his career with the proof, if my analysis comes to fruition. Right now, Kobe has done more in his NBA career than Jordan at this age. If you're gunna use stats to measure shit, don't ignore all of Kobe's records while only listing Jordan's, cuz that makes your hate look even more pathetic...PeACe

u aint very smart are u jew? first off kobe may have broken SOME of jordan's records, but he hasn't broken a MAJORITY of the records jordan had at 29. its been proven in this topic that u just say false shiet (# of jordan titles at 29) and hope nobody calls ur pathetic ass on the truth. like i said with the age shiet, after kobe loses to the celtics, he'll have 3 titles at 30 years old, the SAME as jordan. and the whole point that ur jew ass dont get is that its not fair to compare 2 players agewise when one started much earlier than the other in the NBA, just like i didnt actually compare jordans ncaa shit to kobe, since kobe skipped college. u may wanna get all technical about 4 months cuz it makes kobe look better and your in love with him, but its some gay shiet to try and sneak out the reality, which is that jordan ACCOMPLISHED more than kobe at the same age. so kobe hasn't "clearly done better by this age". you measure who is better by your personal, biased opinion from watchin them? hahahaha, if thats the best way to measure players, people might as well stop taking stats. u dumbfucc,  opinions are like assholes, thats why niccas keep stats to BACC OPINIONS UP. you keep sayin shiet with no FACTS, like "kobe has done more in his nba career than jordan" except thats about as true as your fake jordan title count. i LISTED jordan's UNMATCHED nba accomplishments because MY ARGUMENT is that jordan is better at the same age. if i was arguin that KOBE IS BETTER, than i woulda listed PROOF to bacc up that shiet. you cant do that cuz that 'proof' dont exist, or as u like to put it, it's 'FUTURE PROOF' ahahahha. what the fuc is future proof? the reality is jordan has more unmatched NBA records at 29 than kobe does. kobe might have some, but jordan has MORE. get it?

jordan's nba accomplishments at 29 > kobe's nba accomplishments at 29 (i posted PROOF, you posted jacc shiet except your groupie luv opinion)

since ur too dumb to realize that comparin age accomplishments for people who started their nba careers at different ages is stupid (even tho the NUMBERS show jordan did more at the same age) i'll break it down real simple fo yo jewbacca ass.

jordan in first 9 nba seasons = 3 titles (all as UNDISPUTED leader, all with nba finals records and 3 nba finals mvps aka BEST player on biggest nba stage) he also had 6 titles in his first 13 seasons, which is double kobe's number of titles in teh same amount of years)
kobe in first 12 nba seasons = 3 titles  (all as shaq's sidekicc. less points and ZERO finals mvps aka NOT THE BEST player on biggest nba stage)

so jordan had the same number of titles in 3 less seasons, and double the kobe titles in the same amount of time. even if kobe wins next year, he'll have 4 rings in 13 seasons, when jordan had 6 in 13 seasons.

thats undisputedly proof that in the same amount of total seasons(actually 3 seasons less), jordan had more rings, more scoring titles, more mvps, more defensive players of the year, more rookie of the year, more seasons scoring 3000 points, more finals mvps, more finals records, LESS FINALS LOSSES.

however you wanan look at it, jordan has better numbers in the same or less amount of seasons/same point in career vs kobes.

LOL @ you having the audacity to make sense. Facts are meaningless to a Kobe stan

"bu-bu-bu-but Kobe, bu-bu-but...."

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

lemme ask yall a question... WHO WOULD DOMINATE MORE IN THESE FINALS RIGHT NOW IF YOU HAD TO CHOOSE

SHAQ IN HIS PRIME OR KOBE BRYANT NOW IN HIS PRIME???


easy choice id go with SHAQ

Shaq with no superstar guard to feed him? I don't think so. LOL.

This question shouldn't even be asked. MJ hands down the greatest player that has ever played the game he has never lost a nba finals series and kobe is about to lose his second simple as that. MJ=GOAT. Close Thread.

He's lost in quite a few first rounds. LOL. Making Finals>Making 1st Round. I love these Jordan fanatic arguments.

These "Jordan fanatic arguments" definitely have a lot more merit to them than the Kobe fanatic arguments. Jordan is proven, is a legend and is widely heralded as the best player to ever set foot on the hardwood. Miss me with the "Well Phil Jackson says Kobe is better," nonsense. Of course he's gonna say that. He knows he has to cater to Kobe's ego.

Just wait until Kobe's career is over...As of now, he's definitely on pace, and will remain in the talks.

NIK, I know youre a Kobe fan more then youre a Laker fan. And I know you follow Kobe, far more then you follow basketball. But Even IF Kobe in his prime dominates as much as Shaq did in his prime (key word, if)...Kobe would be getting set up by Shaq more then the other way around. An offense runs easier around a dominant bigman then a dominant perimeter player.

On a side note, "on pace" is one of the stupidest sayings ever used in sports. Griffey was "on pace" to shatter Babe Ruths homerun record. Barry Sanders was "on pace" to break the all time rushing record. Kobe Bryant is "on pace" to becoming the second best 2 guard ever.

Everything you just said is wrong...I'm a Laker fan first...that's not even questionable..and Kobe on the perimeter opened the game up for Shaq way more than Shaq opened shit up for Kobe (see Shaq's speedy decline and Kobe's vast improvement after Shaq left LA. LOL). 35+ PPG without Shaq, ToNe... Kobe can drive, shoot, post-up, feed you the ball off a lob, in transition, he has it all. Shaq was also a weak defender who never moved on screen-and-rolls and was the worst help defender a guard could ask for.. while Kobe always shut down the teams best players. But no, of course that doesn't mean shit, right? Kobe, right now, is better skillwise than Jordan was...now it's a matter of whether he can achieve the same in the amount of time he has left. I'd say, Lakers are looking good, and so is Kobe's future in LA...PeACe

If you know basketball. Dont you know that its inside out....not outside in. Are you gonna tell me when it was Shaq and Kobe, the gameplan wasnt to establish the post first and have all the other players feed off of that? Ask any coach. Even if you dont have a dominant center....its best to get the ball to the post. But especially when your center is commanding double and sometimes triple teams. Shaq's decline after leaving LA and Kobe getting better has nothing to do with the argument lol. It was easy to see, even in Shaq's prime, that he would have a rapid decline as he got up in age. He never had a ton of skills as a center...he was just big and pretty athletic for his size. Once he lost that explosion...he had nothing to fall back on. That doesnt mean he wasnt the main man during the three peat years though and its obvious to non Kobe fans. Your skillwise argument is silly. Paul Pierce is better "skillwise" then Larry Bird was. Which would you say is the better all time player?

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

Laker fa...scatch that. Kobe fans will never understand this. Even though the rest of the world does. Whether you were a Bulls fan in the 90's....or a Knicks fan and hated him...you would agree that there is a definete difference between Jordan and every other player ever. Kobe is part of that group. Im a Spurs fan, and Duncan is probably the best power forward of all time. But im not stupid enough (like some) to think that Jordan still wasnt on another level.

I guess Mark Jackson, who's PLAYED AGAINST HIM, doesn't count for shit...and Phil Jackson, who's COACHED BOTH PLAYERS. Naah, his opinion on this matter is just as worthless, huh?...Jordan was just greater cuz he was greater! Right? That's the argument. The NBA got you good with all that marketing, huh? Don't forget that the league made Jordan untouchable, sorta like the opposite of what they've done with Kobe. But naah, none of that matters, Jordan was just the greatest! Kobe=more range, more dribbles, stronger slash to the hoop, wider arsenal, better scorer, more titles at younger age, less respect from refs/leage. No way, though. Jordan's gotta be the greatest. Cuz everyone fuckin says so!

lol Mark Jackson and Phil....thats what you got? lol. Mark is a member of the media, his job is to say something shocking, even if it IS stupid. Phil is coaching Kobe NOW. Kobe is known for having the biggest ego in basketball. Doesnt make much coaching sense for Phil to come out and say...."Jordans definetely better then Kobe" lol. More range? Debatable. Jordans fade-away was the second most dangerous weapon in league history. Dribbles? Possibly. But doesnt every player now have better handles then players 10....15....20...30 yrs ago? Its evolution. Slashing to the hoop? Very questionable. Jordan is possibly the best finisher at the hoop ever (Nique might take it). Better scorer? How do you define that? Points? PPG? Kobe=25 PPG. Jordan=30.1. Even if you took Kobe's first 3 seasons out (which you shouldnt), he's still at like 28.1. More titles at a younger age? LOL. Youre really reachin with that one. Horry has more titles then all of them...guess he's better also. Kobe wasnt the main guy on those title teams. Jordan was never the "Robin" on any of his title teams.

Some other categories...

Better Leader-Jordan
Better Defender-Jordan
Better Basketball IQ-Jordan
Respect from teammates/opponents-Jordan
Mental toughness-Jordan

Your arguments are baseless and I can rip them to shreds, because they're all based off of ignorance, but I'll put it into perspective for those who actually know something about both Kobe and Jordan with one quote:

More range? Debatable.

LMAO


I'd give you a full reply, but I'm faded and tired right now... You made it pretty easy for me with that one, though.

btw...speaking of Pierce. Whens the last time you remember Jordan getting outplayed by an opponent in the finals? lol

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

^Like I said, Kobe has broken many of Jordan's records...and Jordan hasn't gotten 3 titles by 29, so stop stretching the age to make yourself sound better. If Kobe has 3 titles at 29 and has broken his scoring records, despite spending most of his career with a ball-dominant center, then he clearly has done better by this age... Anyways, it's worthless arguing with you. You're a fake crip, probably from Germany or some shit, and you tend to measure Kobe's level of play based on your hate for him. I've watched both Kobe and Jordan playing growing up, and that's how I measure which player is better. Kobe is a better player and will end his career with the proof, if my analysis comes to fruition. Right now, Kobe has done more in his NBA career than Jordan at this age. If you're gunna use stats to measure shit, don't ignore all of Kobe's records while only listing Jordan's, cuz that makes your hate look even more pathetic...PeACe

u aint very smart are u jew? first off kobe may have broken SOME of jordan's records, but he hasn't broken a MAJORITY of the records jordan had at 29. its been proven in this topic that u just say false shiet (# of jordan titles at 29) and hope nobody calls ur pathetic ass on the truth. like i said with the age shiet, after kobe loses to the celtics, he'll have 3 titles at 30 years old, the SAME as jordan. and the whole point that ur jew ass dont get is that its not fair to compare 2 players agewise when one started much earlier than the other in the NBA, just like i didnt actually compare jordans ncaa shit to kobe, since kobe skipped college. u may wanna get all technical about 4 months cuz it makes kobe look better and your in love with him, but its some gay shiet to try and sneak out the reality, which is that jordan ACCOMPLISHED more than kobe at the same age. so kobe hasn't "clearly done better by this age". you measure who is better by your personal, biased opinion from watchin them? hahahaha, if thats the best way to measure players, people might as well stop taking stats. u dumbfucc,  opinions are like assholes, thats why niccas keep stats to BACC OPINIONS UP. you keep sayin shiet with no FACTS, like "kobe has done more in his nba career than jordan" except thats about as true as your fake jordan title count. i LISTED jordan's UNMATCHED nba accomplishments because MY ARGUMENT is that jordan is better at the same age. if i was arguin that KOBE IS BETTER, than i woulda listed PROOF to bacc up that shiet. you cant do that cuz that 'proof' dont exist, or as u like to put it, it's 'FUTURE PROOF' ahahahha. what the fuc is future proof? the reality is jordan has more unmatched NBA records at 29 than kobe does. kobe might have some, but jordan has MORE. get it?

jordan's nba accomplishments at 29 > kobe's nba accomplishments at 29 (i posted PROOF, you posted jacc shiet except your groupie luv opinion)

since ur too dumb to realize that comparin age accomplishments for people who started their nba careers at different ages is stupid (even tho the NUMBERS show jordan did more at the same age) i'll break it down real simple fo yo jewbacca ass.

jordan in first 9 nba seasons = 3 titles (all as UNDISPUTED leader, all with nba finals records and 3 nba finals mvps aka BEST player on biggest nba stage) he also had 6 titles in his first 13 seasons, which is double kobe's number of titles in teh same amount of years)
kobe in first 12 nba seasons = 3 titles  (all as shaq's sidekicc. less points and ZERO finals mvps aka NOT THE BEST player on biggest nba stage)

so jordan had the same number of titles in 3 less seasons, and double the kobe titles in the same amount of time. even if kobe wins next year, he'll have 4 rings in 13 seasons, when jordan had 6 in 13 seasons.

thats undisputedly proof that in the same amount of total seasons(actually 3 seasons less), jordan had more rings, more scoring titles, more mvps, more defensive players of the year, more rookie of the year, more seasons scoring 3000 points, more finals mvps, more finals records, LESS FINALS LOSSES.

however you wanan look at it, jordan has better numbers in the same or less amount of seasons/same point in career vs kobes.

So it's not fair to compare accomplishments when one player came in younger and more raw, but it is okay to compare numbers and overall averages? LMAO. Get the fuck outta here, ya fakeass crip. Either way you look at it, Kobe holds many records that Jordan will never be able to break, while Kobe still has the opportunity to break Jordan's records:

Most three-point field goals made, one game: 12
Most three-point field goals made, one half: 8
Most consecutive three-point field goals made, one game: 9
Most free throws made, one quarter: 14
40 points on 7 field goal attempts
4 consecutive 50+ point games
42 points in 1 half (vs. Jordan)
Youngest player to score 15,000 points
Youngest player to score 20,000 points
Youngest Slam Dunk champion
Youngest player to be named to the NBA All-Defensive Team
Became first player since Chamberlain (1963) to post 60-point/50-point games back-to-back
Ten 50+ point games in one season
9 consecutive 40+ point games (highest aside from Chamberlain)
Highest scoring all-rookie game
81 point game
62 points in 3 quarters
Connected on 62 consecutive free-throws in 2006
Gold Medal with Team USA, Tournament of Americas Olympic Qualifiers (he did win in the Olympics, shithead)
1996 Naismith High School Player of the Year
1996 Gatorade Circle of Champions High School Player of the Year
1996 McDonald's High School All-American
1996 USA Today All-USA First Team
1995 Adidas ABCD Camp Senior MVP
Named to the USA Today All-Time All-USA First Team in 2003.
USA Today and PARADE's 1996 National High School Player of the Year with a seasonal average of 30.8 points, 12.0 rebounds, 6.5 assists, 4.0 steals and 3.9 blocks per game.
The all-time leading scorer in Southeastern Pennsylvania school history with 2,883 points.



LOL. I can go on, but it's useless, because it wont prove that Kobe is the more SKILLED player. But since stats is what you go by, as opposed to actually watching the players play their game, I thought I'd bring some up...PeACe

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

lemme ask yall a question... WHO WOULD DOMINATE MORE IN THESE FINALS RIGHT NOW IF YOU HAD TO CHOOSE

SHAQ IN HIS PRIME OR KOBE BRYANT NOW IN HIS PRIME???


easy choice id go with SHAQ

Shaq with no superstar guard to feed him? I don't think so. LOL.

This question shouldn't even be asked. MJ hands down the greatest player that has ever played the game he has never lost a nba finals series and kobe is about to lose his second simple as that. MJ=GOAT. Close Thread.

He's lost in quite a few first rounds. LOL. Making Finals>Making 1st Round. I love these Jordan fanatic arguments.

These "Jordan fanatic arguments" definitely have a lot more merit to them than the Kobe fanatic arguments. Jordan is proven, is a legend and is widely heralded as the best player to ever set foot on the hardwood. Miss me with the "Well Phil Jackson says Kobe is better," nonsense. Of course he's gonna say that. He knows he has to cater to Kobe's ego.

Just wait until Kobe's career is over...As of now, he's definitely on pace, and will remain in the talks.

NIK, I know youre a Kobe fan more then youre a Laker fan. And I know you follow Kobe, far more then you follow basketball. But Even IF Kobe in his prime dominates as much as Shaq did in his prime (key word, if)...Kobe would be getting set up by Shaq more then the other way around. An offense runs easier around a dominant bigman then a dominant perimeter player.

On a side note, "on pace" is one of the stupidest sayings ever used in sports. Griffey was "on pace" to shatter Babe Ruths homerun record. Barry Sanders was "on pace" to break the all time rushing record. Kobe Bryant is "on pace" to becoming the second best 2 guard ever.

Everything you just said is wrong...I'm a Laker fan first...that's not even questionable..and Kobe on the perimeter opened the game up for Shaq way more than Shaq opened shit up for Kobe (see Shaq's speedy decline and Kobe's vast improvement after Shaq left LA. LOL). 35+ PPG without Shaq, ToNe... Kobe can drive, shoot, post-up, feed you the ball off a lob, in transition, he has it all. Shaq was also a weak defender who never moved on screen-and-rolls and was the worst help defender a guard could ask for.. while Kobe always shut down the teams best players. But no, of course that doesn't mean shit, right? Kobe, right now, is better skillwise than Jordan was...now it's a matter of whether he can achieve the same in the amount of time he has left. I'd say, Lakers are looking good, and so is Kobe's future in LA...PeACe

If you know basketball. Dont you know that its inside out....not outside in. Are you gonna tell me when it was Shaq and Kobe, the gameplan wasnt to establish the post first and have all the other players feed off of that? Ask any coach. Even if you dont have a dominant center....its best to get the ball to the post. But especially when your center is commanding double and sometimes triple teams. Shaq's decline after leaving LA and Kobe getting better has nothing to do with the argument lol. It was easy to see, even in Shaq's prime, that he would have a rapid decline as he got up in age. He never had a ton of skills as a center...he was just big and pretty athletic for his size. Once he lost that explosion...he had nothing to fall back on. That doesnt mean he wasnt the main man during the three peat years though and its obvious to non Kobe fans. Your skillwise argument is silly. Paul Pierce is better "skillwise" then Larry Bird was. Which would you say is the better all time player?

Larry Bird was better skillwise than Paul Pierce, so I dunno wtf you're tryna prove with that stupid statement...Fact of the matter is, bigs feed off of guards a lot more than guards feed off of bigs. Especially a big like Shaq, who clogged the lane for slashers and made it extremely difficult for his teammates on defense. What Shaq has on Kobe is eqo...he wanted the spotlight more, wanted more touches on offense, wanted the focus to be on him, and he somewhat succeeded, considering you actually think Kobe was just a sidekick...LOL

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Laker fa...scatch that. Kobe fans will never understand this. Even though the rest of the world does. Whether you were a Bulls fan in the 90's....or a Knicks fan and hated him...you would agree that there is a definete difference between Jordan and every other player ever. Kobe is part of that group. Im a Spurs fan, and Duncan is probably the best power forward of all time. But im not stupid enough (like some) to think that Jordan still wasnt on another level.

I guess Mark Jackson, who's PLAYED AGAINST HIM, doesn't count for shit...and Phil Jackson, who's COACHED BOTH PLAYERS. Naah, his opinion on this matter is just as worthless, huh?...Jordan was just greater cuz he was greater! Right? That's the argument. The NBA got you good with all that marketing, huh? Don't forget that the league made Jordan untouchable, sorta like the opposite of what they've done with Kobe. But naah, none of that matters, Jordan was just the greatest! Kobe=more range, more dribbles, stronger slash to the hoop, wider arsenal, better scorer, more titles at younger age, less respect from refs/leage. No way, though. Jordan's gotta be the greatest. Cuz everyone fuckin says so!

lol Mark Jackson and Phil....thats what you got? lol. Mark is a member of the media, his job is to say something shocking, even if it IS stupid. Phil is coaching Kobe NOW. Kobe is known for having the biggest ego in basketball. Doesnt make much coaching sense for Phil to come out and say...."Jordans definetely better then Kobe" lol. More range? Debatable. Jordans fade-away was the second most dangerous weapon in league history. Dribbles? Possibly. But doesnt every player now have better handles then players 10....15....20...30 yrs ago? Its evolution. Slashing to the hoop? Very questionable. Jordan is possibly the best finisher at the hoop ever (Nique might take it). Better scorer? How do you define that? Points? PPG? Kobe=25 PPG. Jordan=30.1. Even if you took Kobe's first 3 seasons out (which you shouldnt), he's still at like 28.1. More titles at a younger age? LOL. Youre really reachin with that one. Horry has more titles then all of them...guess he's better also. Kobe wasnt the main guy on those title teams. Jordan was never the "Robin" on any of his title teams.

Some other categories...

Better Leader-Jordan
Better Defender-Jordan
Better Basketball IQ-Jordan
Respect from teammates/opponents-Jordan
Mental toughness-Jordan

Your arguments are baseless and I can rip them to shreds, because they're all based off of ignorance, but I'll put it into perspective for those who actually know something about both Kobe and Jordan with one quote:

More range? Debatable.

LMAO


I'd give you a full reply, but I'm faded and tired right now... You made it pretty easy for me with that one, though.

btw...speaking of Pierce. Whens the last time you remember Jordan getting outplayed by an opponent in the finals? lol

Kobe has clearly meant more to his team than Pierce has to the Celtics...Come on, now. Sasha Vujacic outplayed Manu Ginobli in the Spurs series....SASHA'S BETTER! LOL.

[OG Hack Wilson]

You obviously love Kobe more than I do

kobes parents dont even love him as much as you do

hahahaha

[blue crew]

You obviously love Kobe more than I do

kobes parents dont even love him as much as you do

hahahaha

real shiet my nicca.

and hahahahaha @ this gay ass jew putting up like 10 accomplishments kobe got in HIGH SCHOOL. nicca, dont nobody give a fuc about no gay ass high school awards, u expect us to believe that kobe's high school awards make him better than jordan at 29? by 29 jordan was a 3 time mvp, a defensive player of the year, a 2 time nba champ, 2 time finals mvp, a all time finals scoring leader, rookie fo the year, college champion, olympic gold medalist and more. all his nba finals records alone are greater than kobe chump ass high school records. whats next jewboy, his mommy gave him a gold star when he was 17? what a weak ass list u put up hahaha. oh yeah cuzz, a gold medal in olmypic qualifiers is NOT NO fuccin olympic gold medal. them shiets aint the same dumbfucc, they just the prelims for the real shiet, the world stage, which jordan won when he was like 19 years old.

jordan at 29 > kobe at 29.

pull your kobe skirt up and get in the fuccin fire jew.

[teecee]

the threadstarter was right, Kobe has more than proven in this series that he is not on Jordans level yet.


A|nyone who tries to argue is only making excuses and refuses to accept reality. 


Kobe is not a leader yet; if he was he would get on his team to play some fucking defense.   A blowout to lose the championship is disgusting.  Its like the Lakers have no pride