RND 2. DUBCC'S HOF: BASEBALL'S GOAT POSITION PLAYER #1 BABE RUTH VS #10 BONDS

[herpes]

MDogg take your L like a man

[Don Jacob]

mdogg why are you all up on the black man's schlong all of the sudden?

[M Dogg™]

I'm just saying this, you talk about eras, and the eras are different. Pre-Robinson is an era that not all the best players were allowed on the field. Then in post Canseco, no one truly knows if a player is on steriods or not, so we don't know if stats are fixed. Catcher Josh Gibson of the Negro League in the same era as Ruth was said to hit over 80 home runs, but that's not in the stat book, pre-Robinson is full of what ifs, that era is one big what if. post 1960, when expansion was heavy and new teams came, you can also argue that the talent pool became depleted and hitters had an easier time against weaker pitchers and benefited off longer seasons. The game has changed. Bonds is the ultimate measure of this change. Pre-1998 no one would question his HoF creditals, and it was argued either him or Jr. as the best player of their era. Then of course Bonds got older, bigger, his head was growing and then someone who was a 30-40 hr hitter became a 50-70 hr hitter. Now whatever you want to attribute to that, say what you will, but it was also an era where parks were shinking for more hrs to boost attentence, players became bigger, pitchers pitched harder and muscles became increased. Bonds was already a great player in this era pre-1998, but when people think they can discredit someone like Bonds, they jump at the chance, though in Ruths era the fact was that era is scared. Baseball has always been the biggest game of what if ever, and it's more myth in some aspects that reality. Ruth was the perfect example of that, We love to make Bonds a villian, the same way we love to continue the tradition of Babe Ruth the greatest legend in America. Ruth was the first great slugger in baseball history. When the dead ball era was boring people, Ruth came and slugged his way to Americas heart. He hit home runs in ways no one thought possible, and for that he will always been seen as the untouchable legend, even though his era is scarred from racism and some of the greatest players not allowed on the field.

[M Dogg™]

mdogg why are you all up on the black man's schlong all of the sudden?

I voted for Riverside, CA, the city I was born, didn't you read my OG post.

[OG Hack Wilson]

MDogg take your L like a man

+1

this guy is pathetic.  i read the first sentence of his last post and once i regained my heavy laughter decided to save my time.

[eS El Duque]

Well..thats the end of that.

[OG Hack Wilson]

hahaha

i love when people challenge ol' Hackenshmidt to a baseball arguement 

[Don Jacob]

bump

[M Dogg™]

hahaha

i love when people challenge ol' Hackenshmidt to a baseball arguement 

see here is the thing, your arguing that Ruth had no control over who he played, that he was popular with Negro players, and that's well known, but the bottomline is that the Negro League was full of great talent in the 20's, the height of the league, and Ruth never was allowed to play them. For that, and that allone the era was full of what ifs. Josh Gibson they said hit 800 home runs in the Negro League, but because of faulty stat taking it's not regonize. You think your a get baseball source, but unless you are 90 years old facts are your wikipedia is your major source. You like me have no real footage of these players, we are left with stat books and stories. And as a history major, I can say that all stories, even the Bible, have to be looked at critially. So when I hear about Ruth, I don't question if he was a great player, but what I do know, even before the bigger head, Barry Bonds was the greatest player I've ever seen, and Bonds before 1998 gave me no questions that he was every just as bit as good as the great players from Willie Mays' era. To me that was when baseball was at it's greatest, it's puriest. Before Jackie Robinson baseball, by no fault of it's players, was like the US pre-1865, stained, and those records are put into question. Ruth got baseball out of the deadball era, put butts in seats and for it he is treated like the greatest player ever. This country loves to think of guy who looks like one of them, has a great smile and a strong bat as the GOAT. But to me, I can't see him that way. Not when there was a league full of great players who never had a chance to prove how good they can be. In the flip side, once Jose Canseco came on the field, baseball became stained again. We will never know if most of these players are juicing until they come out or get caught. Neither has happened to Barry, but his the poster child of steriods, mainly because of his bad relationship with the press. I never thought he should have broken Hank Aaron's record, but he did, and his swing was so quick and so sweet that he honestly could have been a great home run hitter in his career IF he would have focused on strength earlier instead of waiting to "experiment". These players have ??s all over them. I think Bonds was a better athlete than Ruth, I think that his swing was better, and aside from Ruth being one of the best pitchers in the game, I think Bonds was a better all around player than Ruth, from stolen bases to contact hits to fielding. He's a 2nd generation player, he knew the game coming in and he played like it, until 1998.

["THE" MoSav]

hahaha

i love when people challenge ol' Hackenshmidt to a baseball arguement 

see here is the thing, your arguing that Ruth had no control over who he played, that he was popular with Negro players, and that's well known, but the bottomline is that the Negro League was full of great talent in the 20's, the height of the league, and Ruth never was allowed to play them. For that, and that allone the era was full of what ifs. Josh Gibson they said hit 800 home runs in the Negro League, but because of faulty stat taking it's not regonize. You think your a get baseball source, but unless you are 90 years old facts are your wikipedia is your major source. You like me have no real footage of these players, we are left with stat books and stories. And as a history major, I can say that all stories, even the Bible, have to be looked at critially. So when I hear about Ruth, I don't question if he was a great player, but what I do know, even before the bigger head, Barry Bonds was the greatest player I've ever seen, and Bonds before 1998 gave me no questions that he was every just as bit as good as the great players from Willie Mays' era. To me that was when baseball was at it's greatest, it's puriest. Before Jackie Robinson baseball, by no fault of it's players, was like the US pre-1865, stained, and those records are put into question. Ruth got baseball out of the deadball era, put butts in seats and for it he is treated like the greatest player ever. This country loves to think of guy who looks like one of them, has a great smile and a strong bat as the GOAT. But to me, I can't see him that way. Not when there was a league full of great players who never had a chance to prove how good they can be. In the flip side, once Jose Canseco came on the field, baseball became stained again. We will never know if most of these players are juicing until they come out or get caught. Neither has happened to Barry, but his the poster child of steriods, mainly because of his bad relationship with the press. I never thought he should have broken Hank Aaron's record, but he did, and his swing was so quick and so sweet that he honestly could have been a great home run hitter in his career IF he would have focused on strength earlier instead of waiting to "experiment". These players have ??s all over them. I think Bonds was a better athlete than Ruth, I think that his swing was better, and aside from Ruth being one of the best pitchers in the game, I think Bonds was a better all around player than Ruth, from stolen bases to contact hits to fielding. He's a 2nd generation player, he knew the game coming in and he played like it, until 1998.

thank you that was real talk. Hack needs to get off his own dick, thinks he like the god of baseball or something its rather disgusting
LOL@Hackenschmidt 

[OG Hack Wilson]

hahaha

i love when people challenge ol' Hackenshmidt to a baseball arguement 

see here is the thing, your arguing that Ruth had no control over who he played, that he was popular with Negro players, and that's well known, but the bottomline is that the Negro League was full of great talent in the 20's, the height of the league, and Ruth never was allowed to play them. For that, and that allone the era was full of what ifs. Josh Gibson they said hit 800 home runs in the Negro League, but because of faulty stat taking it's not regonize. You think your a get baseball source, but unless you are 90 years old facts are your wikipedia is your major source. You like me have no real footage of these players, we are left with stat books and stories. And as a history major, I can say that all stories, even the Bible, have to be looked at critially. So when I hear about Ruth, I don't question if he was a great player, but what I do know, even before the bigger head, Barry Bonds was the greatest player I've ever seen, and Bonds before 1998 gave me no questions that he was every just as bit as good as the great players from Willie Mays' era. To me that was when baseball was at it's greatest, it's puriest. Before Jackie Robinson baseball, by no fault of it's players, was like the US pre-1865, stained, and those records are put into question. Ruth got baseball out of the deadball era, put butts in seats and for it he is treated like the greatest player ever. This country loves to think of guy who looks like one of them, has a great smile and a strong bat as the GOAT. But to me, I can't see him that way. Not when there was a league full of great players who never had a chance to prove how good they can be. In the flip side, once Jose Canseco came on the field, baseball became stained again. We will never know if most of these players are juicing until they come out or get caught. Neither has happened to Barry, but his the poster child of steriods, mainly because of his bad relationship with the press. I never thought he should have broken Hank Aaron's record, but he did, and his swing was so quick and so sweet that he honestly could have been a great home run hitter in his career IF he would have focused on strength earlier instead of waiting to "experiment". These players have ??s all over them. I think Bonds was a better athlete than Ruth, I think that his swing was better, and aside from Ruth being one of the best pitchers in the game, I think Bonds was a better all around player than Ruth, from stolen bases to contact hits to fielding. He's a 2nd generation player, he knew the game coming in and he played like it, until 1998.

blah blah blah.  what good is a stolen base when you hit 50 home runs, 15 triples and 30 doubles a year??


Buck Oneal himself said that your average Negro league team consisted of 2-3 position players of MLB quality and 1-2 pitchers

now if a roster is 15-20 players deep, thats not much.  1/4 of the rosters.

now, really, why am i bothering to argue with you?  you actually think Bonds is a better contact hitter than Babe Ruth?  wow.  

what makes you think that?  the fact his batting aveage is .035 points above the league average, which is smaller than Ruth's .057?

the fact Ruth's slugging % was miles ahead?  were you really THAT impressed by bonds' two steroid enhanced batting titles that you've swayed your decision??

please tell me.


Babe Ruth in 1923 had the best fielding season by a right fielder of all time.

you forget Ruth had a ROCKET of an arm, and was very speedy until the late 1920's.

come on now, you just sound bitter.




btw the way: josh gibosn's 800 home runs = a mythical total for negro league, minor league and exhibiton games....this includes against amateur talent.

he's only confirmed for hitting about 150 against negro league competition and cuban leagues (legit leauges)

gibson would not hit 800 in the majors, especially being a catcher.

[M Dogg™]

hahaha

i love when people challenge ol' Hackenshmidt to a baseball arguement 

see here is the thing, your arguing that Ruth had no control over who he played, that he was popular with Negro players, and that's well known, but the bottomline is that the Negro League was full of great talent in the 20's, the height of the league, and Ruth never was allowed to play them. For that, and that allone the era was full of what ifs. Josh Gibson they said hit 800 home runs in the Negro League, but because of faulty stat taking it's not regonize. You think your a get baseball source, but unless you are 90 years old facts are your wikipedia is your major source. You like me have no real footage of these players, we are left with stat books and stories. And as a history major, I can say that all stories, even the Bible, have to be looked at critially. So when I hear about Ruth, I don't question if he was a great player, but what I do know, even before the bigger head, Barry Bonds was the greatest player I've ever seen, and Bonds before 1998 gave me no questions that he was every just as bit as good as the great players from Willie Mays' era. To me that was when baseball was at it's greatest, it's puriest. Before Jackie Robinson baseball, by no fault of it's players, was like the US pre-1865, stained, and those records are put into question. Ruth got baseball out of the deadball era, put butts in seats and for it he is treated like the greatest player ever. This country loves to think of guy who looks like one of them, has a great smile and a strong bat as the GOAT. But to me, I can't see him that way. Not when there was a league full of great players who never had a chance to prove how good they can be. In the flip side, once Jose Canseco came on the field, baseball became stained again. We will never know if most of these players are juicing until they come out or get caught. Neither has happened to Barry, but his the poster child of steriods, mainly because of his bad relationship with the press. I never thought he should have broken Hank Aaron's record, but he did, and his swing was so quick and so sweet that he honestly could have been a great home run hitter in his career IF he would have focused on strength earlier instead of waiting to "experiment". These players have ??s all over them. I think Bonds was a better athlete than Ruth, I think that his swing was better, and aside from Ruth being one of the best pitchers in the game, I think Bonds was a better all around player than Ruth, from stolen bases to contact hits to fielding. He's a 2nd generation player, he knew the game coming in and he played like it, until 1998.

blah blah blah.  what good is a stolen base when you hit 50 home runs, 15 triples and 30 doubles a year??


Buck Oneal himself said that your average Negro league team consisted of 2-3 position players of MLB quality and 1-2 pitchers

now if a roster is 15-20 players deep, thats not much.  1/4 of the rosters.

now, really, why am i bothering to argue with you?  you actually think Bonds is a better contact hitter than Babe Ruth?  wow.  

what makes you think that?  the fact his batting aveage is .035 points above the league average, which is smaller than Ruth's .057?

the fact Ruth's slugging % was miles ahead?  were you really THAT impressed by bonds' two steroid enhanced batting titles that you've swayed your decision??

please tell me.


Babe Ruth in 1923 had the best fielding season by a right fielder of all time.

you forget Ruth had a ROCKET of an arm, and was very speedy until the late 1920's.

come on now, you just sound bitter.




btw the way: josh gibosn's 800 home runs = a mythical total for negro league, minor league and exhibiton games....this includes against amateur talent.

he's only confirmed for hitting about 150 against negro league competition and cuban leagues (legit leauges)

gibson would not hit 800 in the majors, especially being a catcher.

LOL... you just looked up who he was... lol... nice.

Anyways... as it all is, with segragation, pre-Robinson in MLB is what ifs, they say the Negro League was not as good as MLB... OF COURSE!!! But at the end of the day... it's what it is, both eras are faulty, and I say Bonds... RIVERSIDE, CA!!!!!

[Don Jacob]

SMH

[M Dogg™]

SMH

 

[Don Jacob]

^yep that's exactly what i was doing.