LeBron is not the MVP...

[Sofa_King_Awesome]

LBJ 4 MVP

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

If Kobe was on the Cavs, hje would shoot every fucking time cuz he wouldn't trust anyone so he would shoot about 42 %, average 37ppg, but like 3 assists max.  Lebron's PPG would go down to 25ppg on the Lakers, but he'd get over 10 assists a game.

Imagine Lebron on the Lakers?   SICKNESS.    Imagine Kobe on the Cavs?  It would be Lakers from three or 4 seasons ago?

Kobe would improve every player on the Cavs and would have more assists than he does now, cuz the plays would be ran through him a lot more often in that type of system ala LeBron. if you think he'd shoot 42% and average 3 assits then you simply don't know Kobe's game. LeBron would be lost within a system like the triangle and his game wouldn't look nearly as dynamic as it does in Clevelands free-lancing offense...LOL@your lack of basketball knowledge. "Kobe on the Cavs would suck...LeBron on LA would be SICKNESS!" LMFAO.

Dogg,  I know the Triangle quite well being as I was a devoted Bulls fan.   While the triangle is restricting in some ways, Kobe is still far and away the focal point.  He brings the ball up often, and much of the play is fascillitated through him, as it was with Jordan.  I think LBJ would be great in the triangle due to his court sense and passing ability (even you, with your "lack of basketball knowledge" would know its superior to Kobe's passing).  If Lebron was playing with Gasol and Odom, it would be lights out for the rest of the league.   If Kobe was in the Cavs system, he would run away with the scoring title, but would shoot the ball every time as he wouldn't trust his teammates (sim,ilar to when he went for 35 a game a few years ago).  Its not like Lebron doesn't make his team better.  Guys LOVE playing with him because he trusts thenm and finds the open man. 

Either way, who the fuck brought up this ridiculous "if" scenario?  Who cares, Lebron is on Cavs, people (i.e. obsessive Kobe fans) do all they do to descredit him, and to me it is just ODD. 

Can't we just all agree that NOONE thought the CAvs would be where they are right now, and that Lebron has improved his game (outside shot? better, stil lwork to do.  Defense? much better.  crazy effort.  clutch?  he's been good, best player in the last 5 mins. of games in the last two years.) 

Kobe fans almost know Lebron is a lock and that Kobe doesn't have a chance as of now, hence the support for Wade. 

Its going to end like this.   Lebron, Wade, and Kobe in third.  All having GREAT seasons, but Kobe is the only one who isn't taking his team to a level noone expected.   

I honestly think that if LeBron was on the Lakers that it would be a toss-up between him and Gasol as to who's the focal point to the success of the team.

lol makes sense..

how does that not make sense, moron? you might not agree with it, but it makes perfect sense...even right now, there are games where Gasol is the focal point of the Lakers' offense. if LeBron was playing in the triangle, there's no doubt in my mind that him and Gasol would hold around the same amount of importance as each other in that system.

Lebron:

PPG 28.6
Reb 7.6
Asts 7.3
Eff. 30.96

Kobe:

PPG 27.7
Reb 5.4
Asts 4.9
Eff. 24.81


Obviously Lebron is the focal point of his team, is the MVP right now, and would be the focal point of the Lakers if he played there. Arguing that Lebron and Gasol would be equal on the Lakers is without a doubt one of your stupider arguments. And that means a lot man, cus youve had more stupid arguments then anyone in this boards history. Damn NIK, theres no way youre really this dumb lol

you've lost your pass to call anyone dumb, man...seriously. you're the guy who tries to diss people who praise Kobe as a great player. LMAO. you try to make jokes about his game being perfect, as if he's not the best player on the planet. you, my friend, are the epitome of stupidity...and again with the stats...like I said, put Kobe in a position like LeBron's, in a fee-lancing offense with an exceptional defensively structured team, and he'd be scoring 40 a game...LeBron would be lost in the triangle for a while before he even picked it up...and the focal point of the triangle is usually the big man, if you know anything about the offense (which you obviously dont)...thats why Gasol is considered just as (if not more) important than Kobe in a lot of Laker wins. replace Kobe with LeBron, and that number would double (or even triple)...PeACe

I dont diss people who praise Kobe as a great player. How stupid do u sound? Especially when I, myself have said he's a great player LOL. I diss people (like u), who cant accept that Kobe is not perfect. That he is not the greatest player ever (lol).  That just because someone is not a Kobe FAN, doesnt make them a Kobe HATER. A person who has spent a lifetime arguing with stats on here, only to pretend like they dont matter when they arent in your favor.  Its funny how you can point out all negative consequences of Lebron playing in the triangle, but none of the negative consequences of Kobe playing with the Cavs. One would be, more shots, poorer shot selection, therefore a lower % of the field.  Kobe NEEDED this structure and NEEDED Gasol. His team (yes, he IS supposed to be the leader) was floundering during the post-Shaq years.  And you think Kobe's game is so adaptable?  You havent seen Lebrons game progress?  He wasnt even a score first guy coming into the league. Now he's averaging almost 29 points a game lol.

LeBron wasn't a scorer coming into the league? LOL. How stupid are you, man? Averaging 20+ points as a rookie pretty much solidifies your role as a scorer. The point is, you try to clown on people when they act like Kobe is amongst some of the greatest players ever when he clearly is. I can accept if you don't think Kobe is THE greatest, but to say he's not up there and to place him closer to LeBron/Wade than to Jordan/Magic is flat out retarded and is a common belief by those who don't understand the game. How have I spent a lifetime arguing with stats? I've always said that stats do not determine a better player, and the only time ive ever used stats was to support an argument, not to make one...and to top it off, i rarely use stats to begin with if its not head-to-head...make sure u know what you're sayin before u say it, son. Kobe is adaptable to anything basketball related. the reason for that is because he is a hard worker, the most conditioned person in the league, and he applies himself to what he does. combine that with his out-of-this-world skill and knack for the game of basketball and you'll see why LeBron still has a long way to go before he can be considered in the same class as Kobe...why would Kobe NEED to shoot more shots if he were on the Cavs, you idiot? Mo Williams attempts more shot than any player on the Lakers not named Kobe. He's way more of a scorer than Odom or Gasol...LeBron has an offensively potent supporting cast, so quit acting like Cavs without LeBron are the 2005 Lakers who had Kwame, Luke, and Smush Parker starting...LOL. Kobe does not NEED structure, he ADAPTED to it...Kobe hated the triangle offense when Phil came along, he even claimed that it held his game back, but his greatness and will to succeed allowed him to adapt. Around 2003-2004, Kobe was BEGGING to play in a free-based offense, cuz that's the type of system his game would flourish in..his stats would be similar to Jordan pre-Phil Jackson if that were the case. After Shaq left, it took the Lakers 3 years to build a contender from scratch...3 FUCKIN YEARS. Name me another superstar who has led his team to greatness from a lottery team that fuckin quick? LOL...step it up, man. at least im arguing for a player im a fan of...you're just arguing cuz you're a hater and cuz Kobe has embarrassed the Spurs so many times...go talk about Duncan or Ginobli or something, you obsessed ass mufucka.

You have your head so far up Kobe's ass that you cant even argue against points Im actually making. When did I ever say Kobe wasnt one of the greatest players?  Ive said a million times he's the second best 2 guard ever. So dont give me that bullshit.  You just cant deal with the fact that only you and your fellow Kobe dicksuckers consider him THE greatest lol. And no, Lebron was not looked at as a SCORER when he first hit the league. One of the common complaints about his game was that he was too UNselfish and that he should shoot more.  He turned into a scorer as needed. The thing you dont seem to get is, there are a couple different ways to rate great players. One is, great all time. Another is, great now. Two different things. Yes, for a career, Kobe is higher on the "greatness scale" (whatever that would be) then Lebron, or Wade. As far as great NOW, Lebron is as "great" as it gets at this moment. Face it, he's having a better year then Kobe.  Just because you cant admit it, doesnt mean it isnt true. Real Laker fans would even agree. As far as the potency of the Cavs offense, Lebron is obviously better at creating offense for OTHERS then Kobe is. Kobe is great at creating his own offense, and at times does a good job of creating for others. But Lebrons game is more of a passer then Kobe's is...OBVIOUSLY.  And yes Kobe needed that structure. Just because Kobe hated the triangle, doesnt mean it wasnt good for him. Leave it up to Kobe, yeah, he'd love a more free-lance offense where he could score 35ppg and his team could be .500.  Him scoring more points, but having his team continuously suck would do nothing for his already damaged reputation as a "leader". If you want the name of a player who took their team from a lottery team to a contender faster...Duncan, 1 year.  And as far as Kobe embarassing the Spurs lol. Im sure the Spurs success over the last decade has really been tainted by a few good games from Kobe LOL!.  How many times would Kobe have been embarassed by us if his team was good enough to make it us in the playoffs during our title runs?  Its not the Spurs fault that Kobe wasnt able to make his team relevant when we were winning titles.  Kobe without an all-star bigman = 1st round Suns punching bag.

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

right now neither kobe nor lebron is the MVP....both of their teams have been strugglin' against weak ass teams. am i saying that wade is the mvp right now....no, but it sure levels the playing field a lot.


stats aside. Kobe is the best player in the game....one on one, it's no contest, and wasn't no contest when they matched up.
are both great players. yes. Kobe is already a HOFer and Lebron is a hair away from being there as well.

i dont' get why there is such a rivalry amongst the fans.


Whoever wins the MVP will be the one who's team has the best record out of the cavs and lakers. simple as that. Both deserve it.

just like last year with CP3 and Kobe...the Hornets win the west Paul wins the MVP. can't knock that.

there is no rivalry amongst the fans...Cav/LeBron fans simply try to claim that LeBron is up there with Kobe, while the Laker fans just sit back and laugh. LOL.

Whyt are youy responding then???  Just sit and laugh if you aren't worried    

Wilkins was gfreat, but never lead his team anywhere.  Wade has already lead his team to a chip, and Lebron is already, if he retired today, a far more complete player than WIlkins ever was.  Lebron will win AT LEAST three titles before he is done,


Kobe has yet to LEAD his team to shit, right?  right

Man, its obvious jealousy on the part of the Kobe fans.  Lebron fans arent spending so much time attacking Kobe as Kobe fans spend attacking Lebron.  Kobe fans dont like the fact that Lebron is receiving so much attention and Kobe isnt. That at this young age, Lebron is the face of the NBA and Kobe isnt.  That NBA fans see Lebron as potentially the "next Jordan", and Kobe isnt.  That Lebron is respected amongst the entire league and its fans, and Kobe isnt.  Kobe is great, no doubt. But his fans are insecure.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Lebron will win AT LEAST three titles before he is done,

LOL

Kobe has yet to LEAD his team to shit, right?  right

LOL

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

If Kobe was on the Cavs, hje would shoot every fucking time cuz he wouldn't trust anyone so he would shoot about 42 %, average 37ppg, but like 3 assists max.  Lebron's PPG would go down to 25ppg on the Lakers, but he'd get over 10 assists a game.

Imagine Lebron on the Lakers?   SICKNESS.    Imagine Kobe on the Cavs?  It would be Lakers from three or 4 seasons ago?

Kobe would improve every player on the Cavs and would have more assists than he does now, cuz the plays would be ran through him a lot more often in that type of system ala LeBron. if you think he'd shoot 42% and average 3 assits then you simply don't know Kobe's game. LeBron would be lost within a system like the triangle and his game wouldn't look nearly as dynamic as it does in Clevelands free-lancing offense...LOL@your lack of basketball knowledge. "Kobe on the Cavs would suck...LeBron on LA would be SICKNESS!" LMFAO.

Dogg,  I know the Triangle quite well being as I was a devoted Bulls fan.   While the triangle is restricting in some ways, Kobe is still far and away the focal point.  He brings the ball up often, and much of the play is fascillitated through him, as it was with Jordan.  I think LBJ would be great in the triangle due to his court sense and passing ability (even you, with your "lack of basketball knowledge" would know its superior to Kobe's passing).  If Lebron was playing with Gasol and Odom, it would be lights out for the rest of the league.   If Kobe was in the Cavs system, he would run away with the scoring title, but would shoot the ball every time as he wouldn't trust his teammates (sim,ilar to when he went for 35 a game a few years ago).  Its not like Lebron doesn't make his team better.  Guys LOVE playing with him because he trusts thenm and finds the open man. 

Either way, who the fuck brought up this ridiculous "if" scenario?  Who cares, Lebron is on Cavs, people (i.e. obsessive Kobe fans) do all they do to descredit him, and to me it is just ODD. 

Can't we just all agree that NOONE thought the CAvs would be where they are right now, and that Lebron has improved his game (outside shot? better, stil lwork to do.  Defense? much better.  crazy effort.  clutch?  he's been good, best player in the last 5 mins. of games in the last two years.) 

Kobe fans almost know Lebron is a lock and that Kobe doesn't have a chance as of now, hence the support for Wade. 

Its going to end like this.   Lebron, Wade, and Kobe in third.  All having GREAT seasons, but Kobe is the only one who isn't taking his team to a level noone expected.   

I honestly think that if LeBron was on the Lakers that it would be a toss-up between him and Gasol as to who's the focal point to the success of the team.

lol makes sense..

how does that not make sense, moron? you might not agree with it, but it makes perfect sense...even right now, there are games where Gasol is the focal point of the Lakers' offense. if LeBron was playing in the triangle, there's no doubt in my mind that him and Gasol would hold around the same amount of importance as each other in that system.

Lebron:

PPG 28.6
Reb 7.6
Asts 7.3
Eff. 30.96

Kobe:

PPG 27.7
Reb 5.4
Asts 4.9
Eff. 24.81


Obviously Lebron is the focal point of his team, is the MVP right now, and would be the focal point of the Lakers if he played there. Arguing that Lebron and Gasol would be equal on the Lakers is without a doubt one of your stupider arguments. And that means a lot man, cus youve had more stupid arguments then anyone in this boards history. Damn NIK, theres no way youre really this dumb lol

you've lost your pass to call anyone dumb, man...seriously. you're the guy who tries to diss people who praise Kobe as a great player. LMAO. you try to make jokes about his game being perfect, as if he's not the best player on the planet. you, my friend, are the epitome of stupidity...and again with the stats...like I said, put Kobe in a position like LeBron's, in a fee-lancing offense with an exceptional defensively structured team, and he'd be scoring 40 a game...LeBron would be lost in the triangle for a while before he even picked it up...and the focal point of the triangle is usually the big man, if you know anything about the offense (which you obviously dont)...thats why Gasol is considered just as (if not more) important than Kobe in a lot of Laker wins. replace Kobe with LeBron, and that number would double (or even triple)...PeACe

I dont diss people who praise Kobe as a great player. How stupid do u sound? Especially when I, myself have said he's a great player LOL. I diss people (like u), who cant accept that Kobe is not perfect. That he is not the greatest player ever (lol).  That just because someone is not a Kobe FAN, doesnt make them a Kobe HATER. A person who has spent a lifetime arguing with stats on here, only to pretend like they dont matter when they arent in your favor.  Its funny how you can point out all negative consequences of Lebron playing in the triangle, but none of the negative consequences of Kobe playing with the Cavs. One would be, more shots, poorer shot selection, therefore a lower % of the field.  Kobe NEEDED this structure and NEEDED Gasol. His team (yes, he IS supposed to be the leader) was floundering during the post-Shaq years.  And you think Kobe's game is so adaptable?  You havent seen Lebrons game progress?  He wasnt even a score first guy coming into the league. Now he's averaging almost 29 points a game lol.

LeBron wasn't a scorer coming into the league? LOL. How stupid are you, man? Averaging 20+ points as a rookie pretty much solidifies your role as a scorer. The point is, you try to clown on people when they act like Kobe is amongst some of the greatest players ever when he clearly is. I can accept if you don't think Kobe is THE greatest, but to say he's not up there and to place him closer to LeBron/Wade than to Jordan/Magic is flat out retarded and is a common belief by those who don't understand the game. How have I spent a lifetime arguing with stats? I've always said that stats do not determine a better player, and the only time ive ever used stats was to support an argument, not to make one...and to top it off, i rarely use stats to begin with if its not head-to-head...make sure u know what you're sayin before u say it, son. Kobe is adaptable to anything basketball related. the reason for that is because he is a hard worker, the most conditioned person in the league, and he applies himself to what he does. combine that with his out-of-this-world skill and knack for the game of basketball and you'll see why LeBron still has a long way to go before he can be considered in the same class as Kobe...why would Kobe NEED to shoot more shots if he were on the Cavs, you idiot? Mo Williams attempts more shot than any player on the Lakers not named Kobe. He's way more of a scorer than Odom or Gasol...LeBron has an offensively potent supporting cast, so quit acting like Cavs without LeBron are the 2005 Lakers who had Kwame, Luke, and Smush Parker starting...LOL. Kobe does not NEED structure, he ADAPTED to it...Kobe hated the triangle offense when Phil came along, he even claimed that it held his game back, but his greatness and will to succeed allowed him to adapt. Around 2003-2004, Kobe was BEGGING to play in a free-based offense, cuz that's the type of system his game would flourish in..his stats would be similar to Jordan pre-Phil Jackson if that were the case. After Shaq left, it took the Lakers 3 years to build a contender from scratch...3 FUCKIN YEARS. Name me another superstar who has led his team to greatness from a lottery team that fuckin quick? LOL...step it up, man. at least im arguing for a player im a fan of...you're just arguing cuz you're a hater and cuz Kobe has embarrassed the Spurs so many times...go talk about Duncan or Ginobli or something, you obsessed ass mufucka.

You have your head so far up Kobe's ass that you cant even argue against points Im actually making. When did I ever say Kobe wasnt one of the greatest players?  Ive said a million times he's the second best 2 guard ever. So dont give me that bullshit.  You just cant deal with the fact that only you and your fellow Kobe dicksuckers consider him THE greatest lol. And no, Lebron was not looked at as a SCORER when he first hit the league. One of the common complaints about his game was that he was too UNselfish and that he should shoot more.  He turned into a scorer as needed. The thing you dont seem to get is, there are a couple different ways to rate great players. One is, great all time. Another is, great now. Two different things. Yes, for a career, Kobe is higher on the "greatness scale" (whatever that would be) then Lebron, or Wade. As far as great NOW, Lebron is as "great" as it gets at this moment. Face it, he's having a better year then Kobe.  Just because you cant admit it, doesnt mean it isnt true. Real Laker fans would even agree. As far as the potency of the Cavs offense, Lebron is obviously better at creating offense for OTHERS then Kobe is. Kobe is great at creating his own offense, and at times does a good job of creating for others. But Lebrons game is more of a passer then Kobe's is...OBVIOUSLY.  And yes Kobe needed that structure. Just because Kobe hated the triangle, doesnt mean it wasnt good for him. Leave it up to Kobe, yeah, he'd love a more free-lance offense where he could score 35ppg and his team could be .500.  Him scoring more points, but having his team continuously suck would do nothing for his already damaged reputation as a "leader". If you want the name of a player who took their team from a lottery team to a contender faster...Duncan, 1 year.  And as far as Kobe embarassing the Spurs lol. Im sure the Spurs success over the last decade has really been tainted by a few good games from Kobe LOL!.  How many times would Kobe have been embarassed by us if his team was good enough to make it us in the playoffs during our title runs?  Its not the Spurs fault that Kobe wasnt able to make his team relevant when we were winning titles.  Kobe without an all-star bigman = 1st round Suns punching bag.

so many flaws in this post...LOL. "the Suns punching bag"...yea, cuz a 7 seed pushin a 2 seed to 7 games is really considered a "punching bag". and Kobe's "flawed reputation as a leader"? Oh, man, wtf? Where were you when every article in the sports world was reporting about how it took Kobe's leadership for Team USA to be relevant again? LMAO@Daygo and his hate for Kobe. and yes, you are mad at Kobe for shitting on the Spurs in the 3peat era. don't give me that shit about your team being successful this decade, if it werent for Kobe then San Antonio woulda probably had a shot at a back-to-back. LOL. Kobe right now > LeBron right now...ya'll Kobe haters just need to get over it already.

LeBron is more of a passer because he doesnt have as much offense as Kobe in his arsenal. If Kobe was as limited as LeBron, he'd be passing every other possession as well. that in no way means LeBron is a better passer. Kobe has made passes before that were reminiscent of Magic...just because it's not the main part of his game doesn't make him not as good at it. Kobe is better than LeBron in every aspect of the game aside from power. thats all Lebron has on Kobe...power.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

right now neither kobe nor lebron is the MVP....both of their teams have been strugglin' against weak ass teams. am i saying that wade is the mvp right now....no, but it sure levels the playing field a lot.


stats aside. Kobe is the best player in the game....one on one, it's no contest, and wasn't no contest when they matched up.
are both great players. yes. Kobe is already a HOFer and Lebron is a hair away from being there as well.

i dont' get why there is such a rivalry amongst the fans.


Whoever wins the MVP will be the one who's team has the best record out of the cavs and lakers. simple as that. Both deserve it.

just like last year with CP3 and Kobe...the Hornets win the west Paul wins the MVP. can't knock that.

there is no rivalry amongst the fans...Cav/LeBron fans simply try to claim that LeBron is up there with Kobe, while the Laker fans just sit back and laugh. LOL.

Whyt are youy responding then???  Just sit and laugh if you aren't worried    

Wilkins was gfreat, but never lead his team anywhere.  Wade has already lead his team to a chip, and Lebron is already, if he retired today, a far more complete player than WIlkins ever was.  Lebron will win AT LEAST three titles before he is done,


Kobe has yet to LEAD his team to shit, right?  right

Man, its obvious jealousy on the part of the Kobe fans.  Lebron fans arent spending so much time attacking Kobe as Kobe fans spend attacking Lebron.  Kobe fans dont like the fact that Lebron is receiving so much attention and Kobe isnt. That at this young age, Lebron is the face of the NBA and Kobe isnt.  That NBA fans see Lebron as potentially the "next Jordan", and Kobe isnt.  That Lebron is respected amongst the entire league and its fans, and Kobe isnt.  Kobe is great, no doubt. But his fans are insecure.

LMAO...and you dont see any problem with this? the better player, harder worker, with 10 times the achievements under his belt gets way less respect due to media and marketing...and you're down? LOL. typical casual NBA fan.

[teecee]

If Kobe was on the Cavs, hje would shoot every fucking time cuz he wouldn't trust anyone so he would shoot about 42 %, average 37ppg, but like 3 assists max.  Lebron's PPG would go down to 25ppg on the Lakers, but he'd get over 10 assists a game.

Imagine Lebron on the Lakers?   SICKNESS.    Imagine Kobe on the Cavs?  It would be Lakers from three or 4 seasons ago?

Kobe would improve every player on the Cavs and would have more assists than he does now, cuz the plays would be ran through him a lot more often in that type of system ala LeBron. if you think he'd shoot 42% and average 3 assits then you simply don't know Kobe's game. LeBron would be lost within a system like the triangle and his game wouldn't look nearly as dynamic as it does in Clevelands free-lancing offense...LOL@your lack of basketball knowledge. "Kobe on the Cavs would suck...LeBron on LA would be SICKNESS!" LMFAO.

Dogg,  I know the Triangle quite well being as I was a devoted Bulls fan.   While the triangle is restricting in some ways, Kobe is still far and away the focal point.  He brings the ball up often, and much of the play is fascillitated through him, as it was with Jordan.  I think LBJ would be great in the triangle due to his court sense and passing ability (even you, with your "lack of basketball knowledge" would know its superior to Kobe's passing).  If Lebron was playing with Gasol and Odom, it would be lights out for the rest of the league.   If Kobe was in the Cavs system, he would run away with the scoring title, but would shoot the ball every time as he wouldn't trust his teammates (sim,ilar to when he went for 35 a game a few years ago).  Its not like Lebron doesn't make his team better.  Guys LOVE playing with him because he trusts thenm and finds the open man. 

Either way, who the fuck brought up this ridiculous "if" scenario?  Who cares, Lebron is on Cavs, people (i.e. obsessive Kobe fans) do all they do to descredit him, and to me it is just ODD. 

Can't we just all agree that NOONE thought the CAvs would be where they are right now, and that Lebron has improved his game (outside shot? better, stil lwork to do.  Defense? much better.  crazy effort.  clutch?  he's been good, best player in the last 5 mins. of games in the last two years.) 

Kobe fans almost know Lebron is a lock and that Kobe doesn't have a chance as of now, hence the support for Wade. 

Its going to end like this.   Lebron, Wade, and Kobe in third.  All having GREAT seasons, but Kobe is the only one who isn't taking his team to a level noone expected.   

I honestly think that if LeBron was on the Lakers that it would be a toss-up between him and Gasol as to who's the focal point to the success of the team.

lol makes sense..

how does that not make sense, moron? you might not agree with it, but it makes perfect sense...even right now, there are games where Gasol is the focal point of the Lakers' offense. if LeBron was playing in the triangle, there's no doubt in my mind that him and Gasol would hold around the same amount of importance as each other in that system.

Lebron:

PPG 28.6
Reb 7.6
Asts 7.3
Eff. 30.96

Kobe:

PPG 27.7
Reb 5.4
Asts 4.9
Eff. 24.81


Obviously Lebron is the focal point of his team, is the MVP right now, and would be the focal point of the Lakers if he played there. Arguing that Lebron and Gasol would be equal on the Lakers is without a doubt one of your stupider arguments. And that means a lot man, cus youve had more stupid arguments then anyone in this boards history. Damn NIK, theres no way youre really this dumb lol

you've lost your pass to call anyone dumb, man...seriously. you're the guy who tries to diss people who praise Kobe as a great player. LMAO. you try to make jokes about his game being perfect, as if he's not the best player on the planet. you, my friend, are the epitome of stupidity...and again with the stats...like I said, put Kobe in a position like LeBron's, in a fee-lancing offense with an exceptional defensively structured team, and he'd be scoring 40 a game...LeBron would be lost in the triangle for a while before he even picked it up...and the focal point of the triangle is usually the big man, if you know anything about the offense (which you obviously dont)...thats why Gasol is considered just as (if not more) important than Kobe in a lot of Laker wins. replace Kobe with LeBron, and that number would double (or even triple)...PeACe

I dont diss people who praise Kobe as a great player. How stupid do u sound? Especially when I, myself have said he's a great player LOL. I diss people (like u), who cant accept that Kobe is not perfect. That he is not the greatest player ever (lol).  That just because someone is not a Kobe FAN, doesnt make them a Kobe HATER. A person who has spent a lifetime arguing with stats on here, only to pretend like they dont matter when they arent in your favor.  Its funny how you can point out all negative consequences of Lebron playing in the triangle, but none of the negative consequences of Kobe playing with the Cavs. One would be, more shots, poorer shot selection, therefore a lower % of the field.  Kobe NEEDED this structure and NEEDED Gasol. His team (yes, he IS supposed to be the leader) was floundering during the post-Shaq years.  And you think Kobe's game is so adaptable?  You havent seen Lebrons game progress?  He wasnt even a score first guy coming into the league. Now he's averaging almost 29 points a game lol.

LeBron wasn't a scorer coming into the league? LOL. How stupid are you, man? Averaging 20+ points as a rookie pretty much solidifies your role as a scorer. The point is, you try to clown on people when they act like Kobe is amongst some of the greatest players ever when he clearly is. I can accept if you don't think Kobe is THE greatest, but to say he's not up there and to place him closer to LeBron/Wade than to Jordan/Magic is flat out retarded and is a common belief by those who don't understand the game. How have I spent a lifetime arguing with stats? I've always said that stats do not determine a better player, and the only time ive ever used stats was to support an argument, not to make one...and to top it off, i rarely use stats to begin with if its not head-to-head...make sure u know what you're sayin before u say it, son. Kobe is adaptable to anything basketball related. the reason for that is because he is a hard worker, the most conditioned person in the league, and he applies himself to what he does. combine that with his out-of-this-world skill and knack for the game of basketball and you'll see why LeBron still has a long way to go before he can be considered in the same class as Kobe...why would Kobe NEED to shoot more shots if he were on the Cavs, you idiot? Mo Williams attempts more shot than any player on the Lakers not named Kobe. He's way more of a scorer than Odom or Gasol...LeBron has an offensively potent supporting cast, so quit acting like Cavs without LeBron are the 2005 Lakers who had Kwame, Luke, and Smush Parker starting...LOL. Kobe does not NEED structure, he ADAPTED to it...Kobe hated the triangle offense when Phil came along, he even claimed that it held his game back, but his greatness and will to succeed allowed him to adapt. Around 2003-2004, Kobe was BEGGING to play in a free-based offense, cuz that's the type of system his game would flourish in..his stats would be similar to Jordan pre-Phil Jackson if that were the case. After Shaq left, it took the Lakers 3 years to build a contender from scratch...3 FUCKIN YEARS. Name me another superstar who has led his team to greatness from a lottery team that fuckin quick? LOL...step it up, man. at least im arguing for a player im a fan of...you're just arguing cuz you're a hater and cuz Kobe has embarrassed the Spurs so many times...go talk about Duncan or Ginobli or something, you obsessed ass mufucka.

You have your head so far up Kobe's ass that you cant even argue against points Im actually making. When did I ever say Kobe wasnt one of the greatest players?  Ive said a million times he's the second best 2 guard ever. So dont give me that bullshit.  You just cant deal with the fact that only you and your fellow Kobe dicksuckers consider him THE greatest lol. And no, Lebron was not looked at as a SCORER when he first hit the league. One of the common complaints about his game was that he was too UNselfish and that he should shoot more.  He turned into a scorer as needed. The thing you dont seem to get is, there are a couple different ways to rate great players. One is, great all time. Another is, great now. Two different things. Yes, for a career, Kobe is higher on the "greatness scale" (whatever that would be) then Lebron, or Wade. As far as great NOW, Lebron is as "great" as it gets at this moment. Face it, he's having a better year then Kobe.  Just because you cant admit it, doesnt mean it isnt true. Real Laker fans would even agree. As far as the potency of the Cavs offense, Lebron is obviously better at creating offense for OTHERS then Kobe is. Kobe is great at creating his own offense, and at times does a good job of creating for others. But Lebrons game is more of a passer then Kobe's is...OBVIOUSLY.  And yes Kobe needed that structure. Just because Kobe hated the triangle, doesnt mean it wasnt good for him. Leave it up to Kobe, yeah, he'd love a more free-lance offense where he could score 35ppg and his team could be .500.  Him scoring more points, but having his team continuously suck would do nothing for his already damaged reputation as a "leader". If you want the name of a player who took their team from a lottery team to a contender faster...Duncan, 1 year.  And as far as Kobe embarassing the Spurs lol. Im sure the Spurs success over the last decade has really been tainted by a few good games from Kobe LOL!.  How many times would Kobe have been embarassed by us if his team was good enough to make it us in the playoffs during our title runs?  Its not the Spurs fault that Kobe wasnt able to make his team relevant when we were winning titles.  Kobe without an all-star bigman = 1st round Suns punching bag.

so many flaws in this post...LOL. "the Suns punching bag"...yea, cuz a 7 seed pushin a 2 seed to 7 games is really considered a "punching bag". and Kobe's "flawed reputation as a leader"? Oh, man, wtf? Where were you when every article in the sports world was reporting about how it took Kobe's leadership for Team USA to be relevant again? LMAO@Daygo and his hate for Kobe. and yes, you are mad at Kobe for shitting on the Spurs in the 3peat era. don't give me that shit about your team being successful this decade, if it werent for Kobe then San Antonio woulda probably had a shot at a back-to-back. LOL. Kobe right now > LeBron right now...ya'll Kobe haters just need to get over it already.

LeBron is more of a passer because he doesnt have as much offense as Kobe in his arsenal. If Kobe was as limited as LeBron, he'd be passing every other possession as well. that in no way means LeBron is a better passer. Kobe has made passes before that were reminiscent of Magic...just because it's not the main part of his game doesn't make him not as good at it. Kobe is better than LeBron in every aspect of the game aside from power. thats all Lebron has on Kobe...power.

Even you don't believe Kobe is as good a passer as Lebron so why type the above.  DIfferent players, different strengths, but LEbron is a much better passer.  Saying Kobe COULD get more assists is a cop out.  He DOESN'T, so that settles it.  ANd LEbron, if he is limited offensively, is doing alright considering he is averaging MORE POINTS on LESS SHOT ATTEMPTS! 

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

^what are you talkin about, yes i do, idiot...even that one lbj supporter, chamilitary, said the same thing...lebron makes more passes, yes, but kobe has better passes. doesnt mean he racks up as many assists, just means he can get the ball exactly where he wants with more efficiency. have you seen some of the passes kobe has completed before? just check youtube and stfu...kobe can be magicesque when he wants to.

[teecee]

"lebron makes more passes, yes, but kobe has better passes"- NIK


??

You are straight killing it homie.  Isn't everything Kobe does better than everything Lebron does?  So Lebron gets 2.5 more assists per game, but Kobe is still the better passer?  Lebron's career avg. is better than Kobe;s best assist season ever, but Kobe is still better.

Too many of you guys live in "what-if" land.  Fact is, Kobe has never out up big assist numbers.  Could he?  Yes, I am sure he has the skill to do so.  But isn't sport all about RESULTS?   I'm sure Jordan could've averaged more assists, I'm sure if Lebron wanted to be a ball hog he could go for 35 a game like Kobe did, but fact is he hasn't so I don't say he is as good a scorer as Kobe. 

[teecee]

And this isn't even a debate anymore, it's a wrap.  Most Kobe fans acknowledge Lebron is having a better season.   

The Cavs are the one team who is WAY better than people thought they would be (shouts to the Magic), and Lebron is the catalyst and best player on that team.

He will become the second youngest to ever win it, and he will win it by a fairly big margin. 

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

"lebron makes more passes, yes, but kobe has better passes"- NIK


??

You are straight killing it homie.  Isn't everything Kobe does better than everything Lebron does?  So Lebron gets 2.5 more assists per game, but Kobe is still the better passer?  Lebron's career avg. is better than Kobe;s best assist season ever, but Kobe is still better.

Too many of you guys live in "what-if" land.  Fact is, Kobe has never out up big assist numbers.  Could he?  Yes, I am sure he has the skill to do so.  But isn't sport all about RESULTS?   I'm sure Jordan could've averaged more assists, I'm sure if Lebron wanted to be a ball hog he could go for 35 a game like Kobe did, but fact is he hasn't so I don't say he is as good a scorer as Kobe. 

wtf are you talking about, moron?...what dont u get about my quote?  if someone makes more passes, that doesnt make them a better passer...are u that fucking narrow-minded, man? this is pathetic.


kobe doesnt need as many assists as lebron does for his team to suceed, you dumb muthafucka. why is that so hard for u to get? if the lakers needed more assists and rebounds from kobe, then thats what he'd do. kobe does what he needs in order to win. you do what youre told. dumbfuck.

[OG Hack Wilson]

lebron's the man

[teecee]

lebron's the man

No doubt man.   

And NIK, when Kobe's team DID need him to make his teammates better, he still didn't get many assists.  You act like Kobe can do whatever it takes for his team to win, but up until last year he sure wasn't doing it then, was he?   When his team struggles, he just puts up more shots, plain and simple. 

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

lebron's the man

No doubt man.   

And NIK, when Kobe's team DID need him to make his teammates better, he still didn't get many assists.  You act like Kobe can do whatever it takes for his team to win, but up until last year he sure wasn't doing it then, was he?   When his team struggles, he just puts up more shots, plain and simple. 

LOL...wtf are u smokin, crackhead. Kobe took a team of a starting five that consisted of Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Luke Walton to 7 games vs. a 2nd seeded team. He made all them players look like legit starters... look at the contracts all 3 of them got after that...step it up, son.

[teecee]

lebron's the man

No doubt man.   

And NIK, when Kobe's team DID need him to make his teammates better, he still didn't get many assists.  You act like Kobe can do whatever it takes for his team to win, but up until last year he sure wasn't doing it then, was he?   When his team struggles, he just puts up more shots, plain and simple. 

LOL...wtf are u smokin, crackhead. Kobe took a team of a starting five that consisted of Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Luke Walton to 7 games vs. a 2nd seeded team. He made all them players look like legit starters... look at the contracts all 3 of them got after that...step it up, son.

As far as I am concerned, he lead then to a huge choke job when they were up 3-1, nd STILL lost.  In fact, dude didn't even bother to show up for Game 7, just like last year against the Celtics.

Crackhead, moron, faggot, homo, etc.  When your arguments make no sense, you resort to immature name calling.  SOmeone find the MOD and get this guy under control.  Surely this section has a MOD, right?