John Barry just said...

[Chamillitary Click]

Tim Legler has said if Jordan never took that break he would have won 8 with the Bulls.

but John's opinon > Tim's right?

["THE" MoSav]

The whole greatest argument is great, you know why.... 'cause in this boards opinion means SHIT! Barbershops, water coolers, internet threads. Fans can have this conversation, it'll take up time and at the end of the day, you can't prove shit. Ali vs Tyson, Kobe vs. MJ, Nolan Ryan vs. Babe Ruth, better coach Red or Phil, Dr. J in a dunk off with Dominic Wilkins, Sugar Ray Robinson vs. Sugar Ray Leonard, '80's 49ers driving last minute in the 70's Steelers for the win, Tiger vs Nicklaus. This are never going to happen, but they bring debate, people want to have an opinion, and fans will argue with a passion for their team, their fighter. NIK will argue for the Gold and Forum Blue, Hack will defend his Yankees, I will go with Ali no matter what, it's just what it is. And it can be a message board, barbershop or water coolers at work (I don't have a water cooler... haha) but this is what fans do.

I can get caught up in it too but in the end I never take it too seriously. I honestly have no clue how Rocky Marciano would if plucked out of his time and put in to today's boxing scene. I don't know who'd had more majors if Jack and Tiger played at the same time. Or what kind of player MJ would have been in 1965.

The problem I have is when people outside the venue of basic bullshitting take their opinions home with them and actually believe in them as fact. Don't know why it bothers me. It just does.

thats a lie. You'll argue for Manning over Brady till the death...

[Shallow]

The whole greatest argument is great, you know why.... 'cause in this boards opinion means SHIT! Barbershops, water coolers, internet threads. Fans can have this conversation, it'll take up time and at the end of the day, you can't prove shit. Ali vs Tyson, Kobe vs. MJ, Nolan Ryan vs. Babe Ruth, better coach Red or Phil, Dr. J in a dunk off with Dominic Wilkins, Sugar Ray Robinson vs. Sugar Ray Leonard, '80's 49ers driving last minute in the 70's Steelers for the win, Tiger vs Nicklaus. This are never going to happen, but they bring debate, people want to have an opinion, and fans will argue with a passion for their team, their fighter. NIK will argue for the Gold and Forum Blue, Hack will defend his Yankees, I will go with Ali no matter what, it's just what it is. And it can be a message board, barbershop or water coolers at work (I don't have a water cooler... haha) but this is what fans do.

I can get caught up in it too but in the end I never take it too seriously. I honestly have no clue how Rocky Marciano would if plucked out of his time and put in to today's boxing scene. I don't know who'd had more majors if Jack and Tiger played at the same time. Or what kind of player MJ would have been in 1965.

The problem I have is when people outside the venue of basic bullshitting take their opinions home with them and actually believe in them as fact. Don't know why it bothers me. It just does.

thats a lie. You'll argue for Manning over Brady till the death...

Of course I will because they play at the same time. I never said I don't take debating sports too seriously. I take it very seriously. I just don't take cross-era debates too seriously. Like Manning vs Montana. Different eras different environments, and different groundwork to build off of. I think Manning is head and shoulders above Brady because their careers are parallel with each other and Manning showed me twice the talent with half the team (defense, coaches, o-line etc.). I don't think The Colts would have gone 5-11 with out Manning this year, much less 11-5. Why'd you have to go and get me started? If you really want to go through ths again just start another thread. I don't want to pollute this one.

["THE" MoSav]

The whole greatest argument is great, you know why.... 'cause in this boards opinion means SHIT! Barbershops, water coolers, internet threads. Fans can have this conversation, it'll take up time and at the end of the day, you can't prove shit. Ali vs Tyson, Kobe vs. MJ, Nolan Ryan vs. Babe Ruth, better coach Red or Phil, Dr. J in a dunk off with Dominic Wilkins, Sugar Ray Robinson vs. Sugar Ray Leonard, '80's 49ers driving last minute in the 70's Steelers for the win, Tiger vs Nicklaus. This are never going to happen, but they bring debate, people want to have an opinion, and fans will argue with a passion for their team, their fighter. NIK will argue for the Gold and Forum Blue, Hack will defend his Yankees, I will go with Ali no matter what, it's just what it is. And it can be a message board, barbershop or water coolers at work (I don't have a water cooler... haha) but this is what fans do.

I can get caught up in it too but in the end I never take it too seriously. I honestly have no clue how Rocky Marciano would if plucked out of his time and put in to today's boxing scene. I don't know who'd had more majors if Jack and Tiger played at the same time. Or what kind of player MJ would have been in 1965.

The problem I have is when people outside the venue of basic bullshitting take their opinions home with them and actually believe in them as fact. Don't know why it bothers me. It just does.

thats a lie. You'll argue for Manning over Brady till the death...

Of course I will because they play at the same time. I never said I don't take debating sports too seriously. I take it very seriously. I just don't take cross-era debates too seriously. Like Manning vs Montana. Different eras different environments, and different groundwork to build off of. I think Manning is head and shoulders above Brady because their careers are parallel with each other and Manning showed me twice the talent with half the team (defense, coaches, o-line etc.). I don't think The Colts would have gone 5-11 with out Manning this year, much less 11-5. Why'd you have to go and get me started? If you really want to go through ths again just start another thread. I don't want to pollute this one.

LOL@ Bad coaching

[Shallow]

The whole greatest argument is great, you know why.... 'cause in this boards opinion means SHIT! Barbershops, water coolers, internet threads. Fans can have this conversation, it'll take up time and at the end of the day, you can't prove shit. Ali vs Tyson, Kobe vs. MJ, Nolan Ryan vs. Babe Ruth, better coach Red or Phil, Dr. J in a dunk off with Dominic Wilkins, Sugar Ray Robinson vs. Sugar Ray Leonard, '80's 49ers driving last minute in the 70's Steelers for the win, Tiger vs Nicklaus. This are never going to happen, but they bring debate, people want to have an opinion, and fans will argue with a passion for their team, their fighter. NIK will argue for the Gold and Forum Blue, Hack will defend his Yankees, I will go with Ali no matter what, it's just what it is. And it can be a message board, barbershop or water coolers at work (I don't have a water cooler... haha) but this is what fans do.

I can get caught up in it too but in the end I never take it too seriously. I honestly have no clue how Rocky Marciano would if plucked out of his time and put in to today's boxing scene. I don't know who'd had more majors if Jack and Tiger played at the same time. Or what kind of player MJ would have been in 1965.

The problem I have is when people outside the venue of basic bullshitting take their opinions home with them and actually believe in them as fact. Don't know why it bothers me. It just does.

thats a lie. You'll argue for Manning over Brady till the death...

Of course I will because they play at the same time. I never said I don't take debating sports too seriously. I take it very seriously. I just don't take cross-era debates too seriously. Like Manning vs Montana. Different eras different environments, and different groundwork to build off of. I think Manning is head and shoulders above Brady because their careers are parallel with each other and Manning showed me twice the talent with half the team (defense, coaches, o-line etc.). I don't think The Colts would have gone 5-11 with out Manning this year, much less 11-5. Why'd you have to go and get me started? If you really want to go through ths again just start another thread. I don't want to pollute this one.

LOL@ Bad coaching

LOL@confusing coaching with a Dungy vs Bellichick debate. Dungy is great, but career vs career the Pats had a much better line up of coaches (all coaches, not just head coaches) than the Colts. It's not even close. Moore wasa run of the mill OC in Pit for 7 years. Then more mediocrity with the Viks in the early 90s. He did ok with Detroit but Barry was there. And on D, you going to compare Ron Meeks to Crennel? Good luck. Just face it. That amazing team went 11-5 with that bitch Brady on the beach.

[you gon always be my latin queen bitch]

haha for real muffuccaz hoppin on the wagon like its nuthin
if kobe would have lost, he and others would have said different shit
FUCK THA NBA

kobe is the best player in the game....AND you can put him up there with jordan...hmmmmmmmmmmmmm band wagon jumper.


this ring doesn't change kobe's place in history IMO, but it definitely still puts him over lebron. i think if kobe wins 2 more he's over magic, wins 3 more he's over jordan no doubt. but he's still 3rd amongst all time guards, second amongst shooting guards.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

^  I disagree in a sense

7 over 6 would do it, in my opinion

but until he even gets 6, he shouldn't be mentioned in front of Jordan

5 still won't be enough, he needs 6 or 7 to even argue about the 2 players

7 is insane though, I think that would say somethin.. ya know?

I get what youre saying. I just think there are SO many factors to being an all time great. Kobe will, without a doubt, go down as one of the best all time players. This is the reason I dont see Kobe ever surpassing Jordan.  When Jordan was in the league, there were a ton of great players before him. There was Magic, Bird, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Dr J, etc...etc.  BUT, in the midst of his career...there was already no doubt that he was the best ever.  You KNEW you were watching the best player ever. There was hardly any debate against it.  Kobe, being in the later part of his career, is still trying to prove he is the best Laker ever.

what you have is someone who's in position to pass Jordan, and it wasn't until Jordan's comeback that you truly knew he was the greatest. In the first 3 peat, you saw greatness, and people put him up there with the greats, but there was a ton of people that still argued Russell or Magic was the greatest, that Wilt was more dominate or that Larry Bird had that will. What Jordan did in the second 3 peat was rest all doubts, and in the decline of his career, he continued to dominate everyone, he was more dominate that a young Shaq, he had more will to win than anyone else in NBA history, and his leadership skills were so far advance that only Magic Johnson could have had the loyalty Jordan had. Jordan put to rest everythingi in his second comeback. He retires striking out in minor league baseball, his one of the all time greats, but his not the greatest, that's for debate.

Muhammad Ali called himself the greatest. But until he beat George Foreman, and showed his will to win, he wasn't the greatest in peoples minds. His in the conversation with Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano, but his not the greatest. Kobe Bryant right now, is at the down slope of his career. He has 2 or 3 more prime years, and then it's that time were you hold on too long. Jordan originally retired at the age of 35, the time when most are in their twilight, but MJ was arguably still the best in the world, and proved it by winning titles. Kobe, if his to be in the conversation with MJ has to win. And win and win and win and win, and not only win, but beat Lebron James, beat the Celtics with KG and Pierce, beat the Magic with Superman, beat everyone put in his way, because the only way he can even be looked at MJ's level is by stepping up, and showing that will to win. He does not have to be at his physical best, in fact when calling our GOATs, we don't look for that, it seems people look for who can do it for a long period of time and who can do it even when their knees give out, and they should be bed ridden with the flu and when they are against someone younger and more physically dominating than them. I say this, if Kobe wins 3 more titles, and beats LeBron for at least the last one, and retires, we'll look at it as Muhammad beating Foreman, and Kobe goes out the GOAT. If Kobe loses to Lebron, we'll look at it as Magic losing to MJ, and the passing of the torch and Kobe goes with West, Magic, Russell, Wilt, and all the others in that argument over second best.

My point was, that Jordan was a special case. A RARE case in any sport.  In our lifetime we havent seen it in baseball, or football.  The only other sport WE'VE seen it in, is golf with Tiger Woods.  At this point in Jordans career, it was already known that he was the greatest. In a sport with such a long history (like any of out major sports), for someone to be truly recognized as the greatest (with little to no debate about it), they will have to be the clear cut greatest while they are still in the prime of their career. They cant be fighting for their place in history towards the end of their careers. The reason Jordan is the greatest still, is because we ALL knew he was the best ever far before his career was over. The reason we know Tiger will go down as the greatest golfer ever, is because its already evident far before his career is over.  There havent been any other athletes in US sports that you can say that about in our lifetime so far.  Even Ali did not have that status DURING his career.

Lets just say this, the marking behind Jordan was that we called him the greatest without him proving it. Many basketball insiders were deferring to other players. If our lasting memory of Jordan was this



Jordan doesn't go out the GOAT, we don't have two 3 peats to talk about and all is what ifs. BUT Jordan did comeback, and it's leaving the game like this



It's picture perfect, we get everyone saying his the greatest of all time and you can't argue it because it's perfect.

The reason Michael was called the greatest because we knew he can win titles at will, we knew that barring a horrible knee injury, he'd get more titles than Magic, Bird and everyone else, you can argue that minus the baseball deal he'd have almost as many as Bill Russell and we can live with that argument, so we called Jordan the greatest. What cemented his legacy was the 1995-1996 season. 72 wins, breaking the Laker's record, and winning the NBA title for the 4th time. That's when it became clear Michael Jordan was the best player to ever play. Before that, he was the best of the era, one of the greatest, but not the greatest, but in 1996, that was the proof people needed, MJ is the GOAT. He was 33 years old at that time.

Kobe is 30 now, and no one has seen a player like him since Jordan. His only problem, he followed Jordan, we even have video of a young Kobe vs. Jordan. LMAO at Shaq saving Kobe from a huge embarrassment with the goal tend.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/HvJywRV9P0w&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1&amp;color1=0x5d1719&amp;color2=0xcd311b" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/HvJywRV9P0w&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1&amp;color1=0x5d1719&amp;color2=0xcd311b</a>

So it's harder to say Kobe>Jordan. But like Ali, Kobe will have to prove it. But as I said, he win 3 more titles, beat Lebron and retires on top, he'll prove something. IF Kobe wins 2 more titles, but then loses to Lebron, people will say the torch is passed, and Kobe's role will be great player that Lebron beat for his legacy, and Kobe goes in with Magic, West, Russell, Wilt and all the other over who is second best.

So I was listening to AM 570 (official Laker station, so NIK dont call them haters lol) earlier tonight, and they were going over the greatest players of all time. They read a top ten published by (cant remember who exactly), that gave the top 1,000 NBA players all time. Jordan was number 1, of course. Kareem number 2, cant remember everyone else on the list. But Duncan was 8, Shaq was 9.....and Kobe was....well, lets just say, not in the top 10.  I believe he was at 13.  Not much argument against that coming from the Laker station lol.  In fact, it seems like most of the top 10 lists out there (you gotta be careful cus some are just random idiots giving their opinion) dont have Kobe in the top 10 all time.  Out of active players, only Duncan and Shaq are regulars in most of the top ten lists out there. Now Im not saying Kobe isnt a top 10 player, when its all said and done I think he will be. Just interesting that it seems most people dont think he is as of now. And we have people on here saying he's better then Jordan lol. Good shit guys, keep the comedy rolling...

KLAC is a Laker station, but they're known to hire Laker haters to balance it out and make sure peeps don't see it as a homer station...if u listen, u know this. not saying the list was a hater list, but you cant put someone on top of a list before their career is over, regardless. Jordan, as of now, is the GOAT CAREERWISE...but as far as skill and talent goes, theres nothing Jordan coulda done that Kobe cant...end of story...PeACe

[Shallow]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Sorry NIK but that's where you're wrong. Jordan had the skill and talent to keep ugly white girls' mouths shut.

[PLANT]

Jordan is the man, straight up.  And everyone knows if he didnt retire he would have 8-9 rings plus more scoring titles.  His retirement kinda fucked with his acheivements, even tho dude has more records than anyone , anways...

[ABN]

Tim Legler has said if Jordan never took that break he would have won 8 with the Bulls.

that´s probably true and had he won 8 rings there wouldn´t have been much of an argument. but it´s hard to say who´s the best, but there´s no room for discussion when you talk about who´s had the biggest impact on every aspect of the game.... Kobe wiill NEVER have the same iconic status as Mike.

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

^  I disagree in a sense

7 over 6 would do it, in my opinion

but until he even gets 6, he shouldn't be mentioned in front of Jordan

5 still won't be enough, he needs 6 or 7 to even argue about the 2 players

7 is insane though, I think that would say somethin.. ya know?

I get what youre saying. I just think there are SO many factors to being an all time great. Kobe will, without a doubt, go down as one of the best all time players. This is the reason I dont see Kobe ever surpassing Jordan.  When Jordan was in the league, there were a ton of great players before him. There was Magic, Bird, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Dr J, etc...etc.  BUT, in the midst of his career...there was already no doubt that he was the best ever.  You KNEW you were watching the best player ever. There was hardly any debate against it.  Kobe, being in the later part of his career, is still trying to prove he is the best Laker ever.

what you have is someone who's in position to pass Jordan, and it wasn't until Jordan's comeback that you truly knew he was the greatest. In the first 3 peat, you saw greatness, and people put him up there with the greats, but there was a ton of people that still argued Russell or Magic was the greatest, that Wilt was more dominate or that Larry Bird had that will. What Jordan did in the second 3 peat was rest all doubts, and in the decline of his career, he continued to dominate everyone, he was more dominate that a young Shaq, he had more will to win than anyone else in NBA history, and his leadership skills were so far advance that only Magic Johnson could have had the loyalty Jordan had. Jordan put to rest everythingi in his second comeback. He retires striking out in minor league baseball, his one of the all time greats, but his not the greatest, that's for debate.

Muhammad Ali called himself the greatest. But until he beat George Foreman, and showed his will to win, he wasn't the greatest in peoples minds. His in the conversation with Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano, but his not the greatest. Kobe Bryant right now, is at the down slope of his career. He has 2 or 3 more prime years, and then it's that time were you hold on too long. Jordan originally retired at the age of 35, the time when most are in their twilight, but MJ was arguably still the best in the world, and proved it by winning titles. Kobe, if his to be in the conversation with MJ has to win. And win and win and win and win, and not only win, but beat Lebron James, beat the Celtics with KG and Pierce, beat the Magic with Superman, beat everyone put in his way, because the only way he can even be looked at MJ's level is by stepping up, and showing that will to win. He does not have to be at his physical best, in fact when calling our GOATs, we don't look for that, it seems people look for who can do it for a long period of time and who can do it even when their knees give out, and they should be bed ridden with the flu and when they are against someone younger and more physically dominating than them. I say this, if Kobe wins 3 more titles, and beats LeBron for at least the last one, and retires, we'll look at it as Muhammad beating Foreman, and Kobe goes out the GOAT. If Kobe loses to Lebron, we'll look at it as Magic losing to MJ, and the passing of the torch and Kobe goes with West, Magic, Russell, Wilt, and all the others in that argument over second best.

My point was, that Jordan was a special case. A RARE case in any sport.  In our lifetime we havent seen it in baseball, or football.  The only other sport WE'VE seen it in, is golf with Tiger Woods.  At this point in Jordans career, it was already known that he was the greatest. In a sport with such a long history (like any of out major sports), for someone to be truly recognized as the greatest (with little to no debate about it), they will have to be the clear cut greatest while they are still in the prime of their career. They cant be fighting for their place in history towards the end of their careers. The reason Jordan is the greatest still, is because we ALL knew he was the best ever far before his career was over. The reason we know Tiger will go down as the greatest golfer ever, is because its already evident far before his career is over.  There havent been any other athletes in US sports that you can say that about in our lifetime so far.  Even Ali did not have that status DURING his career.

Lets just say this, the marking behind Jordan was that we called him the greatest without him proving it. Many basketball insiders were deferring to other players. If our lasting memory of Jordan was this



Jordan doesn't go out the GOAT, we don't have two 3 peats to talk about and all is what ifs. BUT Jordan did comeback, and it's leaving the game like this



It's picture perfect, we get everyone saying his the greatest of all time and you can't argue it because it's perfect.

The reason Michael was called the greatest because we knew he can win titles at will, we knew that barring a horrible knee injury, he'd get more titles than Magic, Bird and everyone else, you can argue that minus the baseball deal he'd have almost as many as Bill Russell and we can live with that argument, so we called Jordan the greatest. What cemented his legacy was the 1995-1996 season. 72 wins, breaking the Laker's record, and winning the NBA title for the 4th time. That's when it became clear Michael Jordan was the best player to ever play. Before that, he was the best of the era, one of the greatest, but not the greatest, but in 1996, that was the proof people needed, MJ is the GOAT. He was 33 years old at that time.

Kobe is 30 now, and no one has seen a player like him since Jordan. His only problem, he followed Jordan, we even have video of a young Kobe vs. Jordan. LMAO at Shaq saving Kobe from a huge embarrassment with the goal tend.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/HvJywRV9P0w&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1&amp;color1=0x5d1719&amp;color2=0xcd311b" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/HvJywRV9P0w&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1&amp;color1=0x5d1719&amp;color2=0xcd311b</a>

So it's harder to say Kobe>Jordan. But like Ali, Kobe will have to prove it. But as I said, he win 3 more titles, beat Lebron and retires on top, he'll prove something. IF Kobe wins 2 more titles, but then loses to Lebron, people will say the torch is passed, and Kobe's role will be great player that Lebron beat for his legacy, and Kobe goes in with Magic, West, Russell, Wilt and all the other over who is second best.

So I was listening to AM 570 (official Laker station, so NIK dont call them haters lol) earlier tonight, and they were going over the greatest players of all time. They read a top ten published by (cant remember who exactly), that gave the top 1,000 NBA players all time. Jordan was number 1, of course. Kareem number 2, cant remember everyone else on the list. But Duncan was 8, Shaq was 9.....and Kobe was....well, lets just say, not in the top 10.  I believe he was at 13.  Not much argument against that coming from the Laker station lol.  In fact, it seems like most of the top 10 lists out there (you gotta be careful cus some are just random idiots giving their opinion) dont have Kobe in the top 10 all time.  Out of active players, only Duncan and Shaq are regulars in most of the top ten lists out there. Now Im not saying Kobe isnt a top 10 player, when its all said and done I think he will be. Just interesting that it seems most people dont think he is as of now. And we have people on here saying he's better then Jordan lol. Good shit guys, keep the comedy rolling...

KLAC is a Laker station, but they're known to hire Laker haters to balance it out and make sure peeps don't see it as a homer station...if u listen, u know this. not saying the list was a hater list, but you cant put someone on top of a list before their career is over, regardless. Jordan, as of now, is the GOAT CAREERWISE...but as far as skill and talent goes, theres nothing Jordan coulda done that Kobe cant...end of story...PeACe

I listen to KLAC all the time lol. But thats irrelevant. My only point was that the list they read, and most other lists Ive seen, dont even have Kobe in the top ten all time...while two other active players are.  Kobe will go down as one of the greats, obviously. But to argue he is better then Jordan when he hasnt even cracked the top 10 in most "NBA All Time" top players lists is kind of funny.  Whats interesting is, Jordan was ontop of that list before his career ended. Which is why I say, the only way someone surpasses Jordan, is to be universally accepted as the best ever before they even finish their career. If they are fighting for position in the later stages of their career, theyve already lost the debate. Because Jordan was recognized as the greatest far before his career was over.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

^  I disagree in a sense

7 over 6 would do it, in my opinion

but until he even gets 6, he shouldn't be mentioned in front of Jordan

5 still won't be enough, he needs 6 or 7 to even argue about the 2 players

7 is insane though, I think that would say somethin.. ya know?

I get what youre saying. I just think there are SO many factors to being an all time great. Kobe will, without a doubt, go down as one of the best all time players. This is the reason I dont see Kobe ever surpassing Jordan.  When Jordan was in the league, there were a ton of great players before him. There was Magic, Bird, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Dr J, etc...etc.  BUT, in the midst of his career...there was already no doubt that he was the best ever.  You KNEW you were watching the best player ever. There was hardly any debate against it.  Kobe, being in the later part of his career, is still trying to prove he is the best Laker ever.

what you have is someone who's in position to pass Jordan, and it wasn't until Jordan's comeback that you truly knew he was the greatest. In the first 3 peat, you saw greatness, and people put him up there with the greats, but there was a ton of people that still argued Russell or Magic was the greatest, that Wilt was more dominate or that Larry Bird had that will. What Jordan did in the second 3 peat was rest all doubts, and in the decline of his career, he continued to dominate everyone, he was more dominate that a young Shaq, he had more will to win than anyone else in NBA history, and his leadership skills were so far advance that only Magic Johnson could have had the loyalty Jordan had. Jordan put to rest everythingi in his second comeback. He retires striking out in minor league baseball, his one of the all time greats, but his not the greatest, that's for debate.

Muhammad Ali called himself the greatest. But until he beat George Foreman, and showed his will to win, he wasn't the greatest in peoples minds. His in the conversation with Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano, but his not the greatest. Kobe Bryant right now, is at the down slope of his career. He has 2 or 3 more prime years, and then it's that time were you hold on too long. Jordan originally retired at the age of 35, the time when most are in their twilight, but MJ was arguably still the best in the world, and proved it by winning titles. Kobe, if his to be in the conversation with MJ has to win. And win and win and win and win, and not only win, but beat Lebron James, beat the Celtics with KG and Pierce, beat the Magic with Superman, beat everyone put in his way, because the only way he can even be looked at MJ's level is by stepping up, and showing that will to win. He does not have to be at his physical best, in fact when calling our GOATs, we don't look for that, it seems people look for who can do it for a long period of time and who can do it even when their knees give out, and they should be bed ridden with the flu and when they are against someone younger and more physically dominating than them. I say this, if Kobe wins 3 more titles, and beats LeBron for at least the last one, and retires, we'll look at it as Muhammad beating Foreman, and Kobe goes out the GOAT. If Kobe loses to Lebron, we'll look at it as Magic losing to MJ, and the passing of the torch and Kobe goes with West, Magic, Russell, Wilt, and all the others in that argument over second best.

My point was, that Jordan was a special case. A RARE case in any sport.  In our lifetime we havent seen it in baseball, or football.  The only other sport WE'VE seen it in, is golf with Tiger Woods.  At this point in Jordans career, it was already known that he was the greatest. In a sport with such a long history (like any of out major sports), for someone to be truly recognized as the greatest (with little to no debate about it), they will have to be the clear cut greatest while they are still in the prime of their career. They cant be fighting for their place in history towards the end of their careers. The reason Jordan is the greatest still, is because we ALL knew he was the best ever far before his career was over. The reason we know Tiger will go down as the greatest golfer ever, is because its already evident far before his career is over.  There havent been any other athletes in US sports that you can say that about in our lifetime so far.  Even Ali did not have that status DURING his career.

Lets just say this, the marking behind Jordan was that we called him the greatest without him proving it. Many basketball insiders were deferring to other players. If our lasting memory of Jordan was this



Jordan doesn't go out the GOAT, we don't have two 3 peats to talk about and all is what ifs. BUT Jordan did comeback, and it's leaving the game like this



It's picture perfect, we get everyone saying his the greatest of all time and you can't argue it because it's perfect.

The reason Michael was called the greatest because we knew he can win titles at will, we knew that barring a horrible knee injury, he'd get more titles than Magic, Bird and everyone else, you can argue that minus the baseball deal he'd have almost as many as Bill Russell and we can live with that argument, so we called Jordan the greatest. What cemented his legacy was the 1995-1996 season. 72 wins, breaking the Laker's record, and winning the NBA title for the 4th time. That's when it became clear Michael Jordan was the best player to ever play. Before that, he was the best of the era, one of the greatest, but not the greatest, but in 1996, that was the proof people needed, MJ is the GOAT. He was 33 years old at that time.

Kobe is 30 now, and no one has seen a player like him since Jordan. His only problem, he followed Jordan, we even have video of a young Kobe vs. Jordan. LMAO at Shaq saving Kobe from a huge embarrassment with the goal tend.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/HvJywRV9P0w&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1&amp;color1=0x5d1719&amp;color2=0xcd311b" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/HvJywRV9P0w&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1&amp;color1=0x5d1719&amp;color2=0xcd311b</a>

So it's harder to say Kobe>Jordan. But like Ali, Kobe will have to prove it. But as I said, he win 3 more titles, beat Lebron and retires on top, he'll prove something. IF Kobe wins 2 more titles, but then loses to Lebron, people will say the torch is passed, and Kobe's role will be great player that Lebron beat for his legacy, and Kobe goes in with Magic, West, Russell, Wilt and all the other over who is second best.

So I was listening to AM 570 (official Laker station, so NIK dont call them haters lol) earlier tonight, and they were going over the greatest players of all time. They read a top ten published by (cant remember who exactly), that gave the top 1,000 NBA players all time. Jordan was number 1, of course. Kareem number 2, cant remember everyone else on the list. But Duncan was 8, Shaq was 9.....and Kobe was....well, lets just say, not in the top 10.  I believe he was at 13.  Not much argument against that coming from the Laker station lol.  In fact, it seems like most of the top 10 lists out there (you gotta be careful cus some are just random idiots giving their opinion) dont have Kobe in the top 10 all time.  Out of active players, only Duncan and Shaq are regulars in most of the top ten lists out there. Now Im not saying Kobe isnt a top 10 player, when its all said and done I think he will be. Just interesting that it seems most people dont think he is as of now. And we have people on here saying he's better then Jordan lol. Good shit guys, keep the comedy rolling...

KLAC is a Laker station, but they're known to hire Laker haters to balance it out and make sure peeps don't see it as a homer station...if u listen, u know this. not saying the list was a hater list, but you cant put someone on top of a list before their career is over, regardless. Jordan, as of now, is the GOAT CAREERWISE...but as far as skill and talent goes, theres nothing Jordan coulda done that Kobe cant...end of story...PeACe

I listen to KLAC all the time lol. But thats irrelevant. My only point was that the list they read, and most other lists Ive seen, dont even have Kobe in the top ten all time...while two other active players are.  Kobe will go down as one of the greats, obviously. But to argue he is better then Jordan when he hasnt even cracked the top 10 in most "NBA All Time" top players lists is kind of funny.  Whats interesting is, Jordan was ontop of that list before his career ended. Which is why I say, the only way someone surpasses Jordan, is to be universally accepted as the best ever before they even finish their career. If they are fighting for position in the later stages of their career, theyve already lost the debate. Because Jordan was recognized as the greatest far before his career was over.

Jordan WAS NOT recognized as the clear cut greatest by age 30...LOL. get over that idea, cuz it's flawed. with 3 more titles in the next 3 years, Kobe could very easily be recognized as the new GOAT in the basketball world...thats age 33. same age Jordan was first recognized as that. and even if he doesnt win 3 more titles, hes the GOAT skillwise. it doesnt take worldwide recognition for it to be true...

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

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Sorry NIK but that's where you're wrong. Jordan had the skill and talent to keep ugly white girls' mouths shut.

LOL

[Chamillitary Click]

Tim Legler has said if Jordan never took that break he would have won 8 with the Bulls.

that´s probably true and had he won 8 rings there wouldn´t have been much of an argument. but it´s hard to say who´s the best, but there´s no room for discussion when you talk about who´s had the biggest impact on every aspect of the game.... Kobe wiill NEVER have the same iconic status as Mike.

Kobe can't be that iconic status because MJ is already their; he'll always be second to MJ (except to Laker fans), until LeBron pushes Kobe back to third.

if their was no Jordan people would praise Kobe like he is the best thing to ever step on the court, he would be the iconic NBA figure if Jordan wasn't who he was.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Tim Legler has said if Jordan never took that break he would have won 8 with the Bulls.

that´s probably true and had he won 8 rings there wouldn´t have been much of an argument. but it´s hard to say who´s the best, but there´s no room for discussion when you talk about who´s had the biggest impact on every aspect of the game.... Kobe wiill NEVER have the same iconic status as Mike.

Kobe can't be that iconic status because MJ is already their; he'll always be second to MJ (except to Laker fans), until LeBron pushes Kobe back to third.

if their was no Jordan people would praise Kobe like he is the best thing to ever step on the court, he would be the iconic NBA figure if Jordan wasn't who he was.

Kobe never had a chance to be that iconic figure...if he came into the league in '84, in Jordan's position, he woulda definitely had a chance at that same marketing & push that the NBA gave Jordan...but he didn't and it is what it is...still...public image status doesn't define skill, and when comparing players, i'd prefer to keep my focus on what they do on the court...PeACe