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Quote from: Infinite... Be and It Is on April 29, 2010, 06:45:43 AMQuote from: ikke on April 28, 2010, 11:40:24 AMCan you teach me how to make those long ass posts saying something that could fit into 1 or 2 sentences?No Offence.I was explaining the process of how I had came to the same conclusion as the author of the article. I don't think my explanation was too long.Quote from: ikke on April 28, 2010, 11:40:24 AMOn Topic:You say it starts earlier because you see people from allot of age groups bragging about the same immature activities.In your teens you develop your individuality, the difference between people becomes more obvious therefore you talk about subjects the others can relate to.I don't think that it is a matter of just talking about common activities to relate to one another. I understand the use of that. There's a lot of people I talk with about sports because it's hard to relate to them on any other subjects. So I know drinking alcohol, for example, is a common past time a lot of people can relate to at different ages.But it's more than that. You can see the expression on a person's face change as they get older. They slowly become less open, set in their ways, and it is very difficult for them to continue to receive new idea's without becoming anxious. They do become less intelligent, and often more immature. I mean, look at the phenomenon of television shows with the father or adult male figure acting like a child all the time. That show "Jim", "Kings of Queens", "Simpsons", "Family Guy", Tim Allen's characters, Adam Sandlers characters, I could go on and on... it's became a cultural phenomenon in America especially. lol....tv shows don't reflect reality. Most fathers aren't retards, and if they are I suspect they started out as such. Fyi, fat, stupid guys don't usually pull the hot chicks either. Your Eminem example doesn't make sense either. An album doesn't reflect a rapper's personality either, it reflects what they believe will appeal to their audience at the time. I'll agree on the point that people become more set in their ways....but that's because they have a lot more knowledge than younger people. They've spent an entire lifetime learning things a certain way and you expect them to suddenly change because you say something different? Younger people may have a greater capacity for learning, but that's because they are more ignorant and know less to begin with.
Quote from: ikke on April 28, 2010, 11:40:24 AMCan you teach me how to make those long ass posts saying something that could fit into 1 or 2 sentences?No Offence.I was explaining the process of how I had came to the same conclusion as the author of the article. I don't think my explanation was too long.Quote from: ikke on April 28, 2010, 11:40:24 AMOn Topic:You say it starts earlier because you see people from allot of age groups bragging about the same immature activities.In your teens you develop your individuality, the difference between people becomes more obvious therefore you talk about subjects the others can relate to.I don't think that it is a matter of just talking about common activities to relate to one another. I understand the use of that. There's a lot of people I talk with about sports because it's hard to relate to them on any other subjects. So I know drinking alcohol, for example, is a common past time a lot of people can relate to at different ages.But it's more than that. You can see the expression on a person's face change as they get older. They slowly become less open, set in their ways, and it is very difficult for them to continue to receive new idea's without becoming anxious. They do become less intelligent, and often more immature. I mean, look at the phenomenon of television shows with the father or adult male figure acting like a child all the time. That show "Jim", "Kings of Queens", "Simpsons", "Family Guy", Tim Allen's characters, Adam Sandlers characters, I could go on and on... it's became a cultural phenomenon in America especially.
Can you teach me how to make those long ass posts saying something that could fit into 1 or 2 sentences?No Offence.
On Topic:You say it starts earlier because you see people from allot of age groups bragging about the same immature activities.In your teens you develop your individuality, the difference between people becomes more obvious therefore you talk about subjects the others can relate to.
You just proved my point. Em made it because he thought people would want that kind of Eminem but they didn't and now he's admitting it. That has zilch to do with his intelligence level or this discussion.The guy raps about celebrities and killing people, things he doesn't do in his real life. ITS A MARKETING TOOL USED TO SELL RECORDS. It's not a personal reflection on his state of mind or intelligence.
Em is a rapper that has a lot of talent, I never said he didn't. But his subject matter IS a marketing gimmick. Do you think if he had made only serious music he would have sold even half the records? I remember when Em first came out and all people could talk about was how controversial he was. It's the reason every teen in America loved him when he came out. His shocking lyrics MADE his career, period point blank. It's only now that people are tired of it that they want something serious from him.And besides that, your tracking of the progression of his albums is completely off. It's not like he's been growing intellectually this whole time and suddenly reverted with Relapse. His first record Infinite was actually his most serious. MM is probably his most childish, and yet its considered his best record.To anyone paying attention, it should come as no coincidence that his new song "Not Afraid" is similar to "Beautiful", his most successful record off of Relapse. He makes records based on whether they will be popular. I can guarantee you that if the audience had wanted the immature Eminem, he would have made another silly song.All this is moot, because the point I am making here is that a commercial album is not a reflection of a person's personal growth or mental capacity. Dr. Dre is not all about fucking hoes and slapping bitches. He's a family man for crying out loud. Eminem does not go around murdering people. The personality of an album is not the same as the personality of the person deciding to make that record. Its an entirely different thing. Of course someone's mind state CAN have an influence on their music, but you SHOULDN'T ASSUME so, especially in Eminem's case where the silly/shocking records are made on purpose to appeal to people.
A lot of people ask me.. stupid fucking questionsA lot of people think that.. what I say on recordsor what I talk about on a record, that I actually do in real lifeor that I believe in itOr if I say that, I wanna kill somebody, that..I'm actually gonna do itor that I believe in itWell, shit.. if you believe thatthen I'll kill youYou know why?Cause I'm a
I think that its impossible to quantify intelligence. Sure grandma might not be able to program your Ipod, but she may know how to knit a sweater. Which of those skills is better to have? Which denotes greater intelligence? For me with age comes perspective. Chances are you have seen more ups and downs and can appreciate when they occur instead of freaking out about it.
I agree with your point that Eminem does try to increase the shock value in his music. Him and Dre even admitted the importance of shock value in his music. I remember Dre saying he was wondering how the shock value on Em's second album could ever match that of the SSLP, and that he was pleasantly surprised when they completed MMLP, because he had actually topped it.Also, Eminem says the idea behind D12 was to say the most over the top shit that they could say. Now.. I've looked up the definition of gimmick so we can be clear...gim·mick /ˈgɪmɪk/ Show Spelled[gim-ik] Show IPA–noun1.an ingenious or novel device, scheme, or stratagem, esp. one designed to attract attention or increase appeal. So I guess according to that definition I can't argue that Eminem makes use of "gimmick".********************************...But getting back to the original argument you were saying that Em's music couldn't reflect growth because it has nothing to do with him and is just a gimmick. And I think that was a very limiting perspective to have. Because we've seen how Eminem's art has changed and grown and along with his own life. If we take a snapshot of the progression of his albums, you'll see he went from "Backstabbers" to "Guilty Conscience" then advancing to "Stan" and then "Say Goodbye To Hollywood" and then finally reached his height and peeked out with "Lose Yourself". Now, admittedly, he lost his focus after that and he admits Relapse was a step backward.
But see, that doesn't really say anything about his state of mind. The serious songs that he throws in on his albums are more a commentary on the state of his career than anything else. He couldn't have made the song Stan for the SSLP, regardless of where his mind state was because he hadn't blown up at that point. And the song Lose Yourself was tailor-made for the movie 8 Mile and described the character B Rabbit. Relapse was his "return album", basically a return to form where he had been gone a while and came back trying to up the bar with controversy. The reason he now calls it a step backwards is because the fan response to that side of Eminem was negative. If the fans had liked the silly Eminem again he would have considered it a step forward. The direction of his albums don't necessarily say anything about Marshall Mathers the person. They are about Eminem the character. Two separate entities. The character on a record is not the same as the person who makes the record. IE. Ice Cube is a family man with a wife and kids but you wouldn't really know anything about that from listening to his latest record. You can comment all you want on the "growth" of an album, but they don't reflect the personal growth of the person who makes the record.