It's June 04, 2024, 08:08:15 PM
Lebron is known as a guy who makes those around him better...more so then Kobe. Again, other then by Kobe fans. Kobe fans tend to think that everyone who recognizes LeBron being better then Kobe....are LeBron fans. When in reality...you have Kobe fans who typically are Laker fans as well, who think Kobe is better. Then you have a majority of any other fans....regardless of their favorite team, who think LeBron is better. Which opinion is more biased...u tell me. Is Kobe a great player. Of course. Will he be a HOF'er? Of course. But there is a reason the expectations for LeBron are so much higher then what the expectations were for Kobe, at this stage of his career. Kobe is at the point of trying to break into that top 10 players all time. LeBron is expected to be competing for greatest player of all time. Who knows if he will ever reach that level. Thats a bit far off still. But Kobe was never expected to rank that high up on the all time list.
Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on May 04, 2010, 01:50:02 PMLebron is known as a guy who makes those around him better...more so then Kobe. Again, other then by Kobe fans. Kobe fans tend to think that everyone who recognizes LeBron being better then Kobe....are LeBron fans. When in reality...you have Kobe fans who typically are Laker fans as well, who think Kobe is better. Then you have a majority of any other fans....regardless of their favorite team, who think LeBron is better. Which opinion is more biased...u tell me. Is Kobe a great player. Of course. Will he be a HOF'er? Of course. But there is a reason the expectations for LeBron are so much higher then what the expectations were for Kobe, at this stage of his career. Kobe is at the point of trying to break into that top 10 players all time. LeBron is expected to be competing for greatest player of all time. Who knows if he will ever reach that level. Thats a bit far off still. But Kobe was never expected to rank that high up on the all time list.You say only Kobe fans think Kobe is the best. So forget about my opinion, what about the opinion of Michael Jordan? Jordan was the last great player in the game before Kobe, so he should be the one to pass the torch. And he clearly said this year, that Kobe is better than Lebron, and that because of his style of play he will continue to have more durability than Lebron.
^but how much stock do you honestly put in his opinion?let's say he said the opposite, you wouldn't say "well, MJ DID say LeBron is better, so he must be right".Jordan's opinion is the same as anyone elses.LeBron finished the year averaging 30, 7 & 7; shooting a little better than 50% from the field; just animalistic numbers.people are so quick to jump to Kobe because of the rings when he needed so much help to get them.but once you say, "who is the better player?" can you even talk about rings? right away, you're turning it into an individual conversation."which player is better?", it's not which team is better, because TEAMS win rings, not single players; so how do you even count rings like that?i'll say that to say this, Karl Malone is one million times the player Robert Horry is; but you guys don't jump so quick to say, "but Robert's got more rings!"; it's just Karl is the better player.LeBron is the better player, Kobe's just been more successful thanks to the most dominating big man in history & a cast of All-Stars in 2009 & 10.
Quote from: Infinite... Be and It Is on May 04, 2010, 06:39:39 PMQuote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on May 04, 2010, 01:50:02 PMLebron is known as a guy who makes those around him better...more so then Kobe. Again, other then by Kobe fans. Kobe fans tend to think that everyone who recognizes LeBron being better then Kobe....are LeBron fans. When in reality...you have Kobe fans who typically are Laker fans as well, who think Kobe is better. Then you have a majority of any other fans....regardless of their favorite team, who think LeBron is better. Which opinion is more biased...u tell me. Is Kobe a great player. Of course. Will he be a HOF'er? Of course. But there is a reason the expectations for LeBron are so much higher then what the expectations were for Kobe, at this stage of his career. Kobe is at the point of trying to break into that top 10 players all time. LeBron is expected to be competing for greatest player of all time. Who knows if he will ever reach that level. Thats a bit far off still. But Kobe was never expected to rank that high up on the all time list.You say only Kobe fans think Kobe is the best. So forget about my opinion, what about the opinion of Michael Jordan? Jordan was the last great player in the game before Kobe, so he should be the one to pass the torch. And he clearly said this year, that Kobe is better than Lebron, and that because of his style of play he will continue to have more durability than Lebron.Jordan was the last great player?? Are u kidding me? Jordan was great, the greatest. Once Jordan retired, you have a big group of great players who will all be HOF'ers. Kobe is simply one in that group. You have Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, etc. Let me ask you this, take your own personal bias out of it. Shaq and Duncan right now are typically ranked in the top 10 on most experts "10 best all time players lists". Kobe is not, or right on the edge. Jordan is one opinion. Kobe patterned his game after...who? Do you think Jordan is gonna say a big man is the best player in the league? Hell no. Have you noticed the way the media always manages to exclude bigmen from the "Best Player in the League" talks? Its solely reserved for perimeter players. It has been that way since Jordan. Basically, its reserved for players who create a lot of highlights...and bigmen dont. Good marketing huh? Even when Shaq was in his prime, they didnt like to call him the best player in the league...so they called him the "Most Dominant". Duncan has 3 finals MVPs, and 2 league MVPs, theyve never liked to call him the best PLAYER. Only the "best bigman". So its all bullshit...As for Jordan again. Take this into account as well. People like NIK have argued for years that MJ has this overwhelming ego (worse then Kobe's they say LOL). Well, do u think the man with the giant ego is gonna say Lebron is the best right now, when a lot of experts think Lebron could eventually surpass Jordan? Or do u think he (and his so called giant ego) will say Kobe is the greatest, knowing that most experts think he wont surpass Jordan?
Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on May 04, 2010, 07:08:51 PMQuote from: Infinite... Be and It Is on May 04, 2010, 06:39:39 PMQuote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on May 04, 2010, 01:50:02 PMLebron is known as a guy who makes those around him better...more so then Kobe. Again, other then by Kobe fans. Kobe fans tend to think that everyone who recognizes LeBron being better then Kobe....are LeBron fans. When in reality...you have Kobe fans who typically are Laker fans as well, who think Kobe is better. Then you have a majority of any other fans....regardless of their favorite team, who think LeBron is better. Which opinion is more biased...u tell me. Is Kobe a great player. Of course. Will he be a HOF'er? Of course. But there is a reason the expectations for LeBron are so much higher then what the expectations were for Kobe, at this stage of his career. Kobe is at the point of trying to break into that top 10 players all time. LeBron is expected to be competing for greatest player of all time. Who knows if he will ever reach that level. Thats a bit far off still. But Kobe was never expected to rank that high up on the all time list.You say only Kobe fans think Kobe is the best. So forget about my opinion, what about the opinion of Michael Jordan? Jordan was the last great player in the game before Kobe, so he should be the one to pass the torch. And he clearly said this year, that Kobe is better than Lebron, and that because of his style of play he will continue to have more durability than Lebron.Jordan was the last great player?? Are u kidding me? Jordan was great, the greatest. Once Jordan retired, you have a big group of great players who will all be HOF'ers. Kobe is simply one in that group. You have Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, etc. Let me ask you this, take your own personal bias out of it. Shaq and Duncan right now are typically ranked in the top 10 on most experts "10 best all time players lists". Kobe is not, or right on the edge. Jordan is one opinion. Kobe patterned his game after...who? Do you think Jordan is gonna say a big man is the best player in the league? Hell no. Have you noticed the way the media always manages to exclude bigmen from the "Best Player in the League" talks? Its solely reserved for perimeter players. It has been that way since Jordan. Basically, its reserved for players who create a lot of highlights...and bigmen dont. Good marketing huh? Even when Shaq was in his prime, they didnt like to call him the best player in the league...so they called him the "Most Dominant". Duncan has 3 finals MVPs, and 2 league MVPs, theyve never liked to call him the best PLAYER. Only the "best bigman". So its all bullshit...As for Jordan again. Take this into account as well. People like NIK have argued for years that MJ has this overwhelming ego (worse then Kobe's they say LOL). Well, do u think the man with the giant ego is gonna say Lebron is the best right now, when a lot of experts think Lebron could eventually surpass Jordan? Or do u think he (and his so called giant ego) will say Kobe is the greatest, knowing that most experts think he wont surpass Jordan?Forget about what Jordan said or what Magic said, Kobe is simply greater because he has what it takes to perform at the highest level on the biggest stage. Why do you think Shaq and Duncan were considered the greatest bigs during that era? BECAUSE THEY WON. THEY DELIVERED RINGS TO THEIR FRANCHISES. If it were Kevin Garnett and Chris Webber winning rings during that era, they would be in that discussion... they're not, and even though Garnett's status sky-rocketed after winning a ring with Boston, he will never be debated with Duncan, because it was Duncan who consistently won on the big stage and not Garnett. you realize that Duncan wouldn't be considered as great as he is currently considered if he had never won on the biggest stage, right? The same applies to LeBron, and you being a Spurs fan, should be the first to acknowledge that.
Your man crush on kobe disgusts us.
^LeBron touches the ball on 99% of the Cavs possesions, sets up every play, good enough for 62 wins & does it with half the cast the Lakers have.he takes a shot or drives on 70% of the possesions & teams still can't stop him; just an unstoppable force.& fine, you can say my Malone/Horry argument is invald; but that doesn't change that when you compare individual players you can't count something that's a team effort.Kobe doesn't win rings, the Lakers win rings; Kobe is just a part of that.Passing? LeBron.Scoring at will? LeBron.Defense? i'm going to say tie.Clutch? Kobe; but with LeBron scoring at will all game long, you'll only need half the clutch moments as you would with Kobe.
But the fact remains lebron is already in those talks without a ring.
Quote from: NIKCC on May 04, 2010, 08:48:36 PMQuote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on May 04, 2010, 07:08:51 PMQuote from: Infinite... Be and It Is on May 04, 2010, 06:39:39 PMQuote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on May 04, 2010, 01:50:02 PMLebron is known as a guy who makes those around him better...more so then Kobe. Again, other then by Kobe fans. Kobe fans tend to think that everyone who recognizes LeBron being better then Kobe....are LeBron fans. When in reality...you have Kobe fans who typically are Laker fans as well, who think Kobe is better. Then you have a majority of any other fans....regardless of their favorite team, who think LeBron is better. Which opinion is more biased...u tell me. Is Kobe a great player. Of course. Will he be a HOF'er? Of course. But there is a reason the expectations for LeBron are so much higher then what the expectations were for Kobe, at this stage of his career. Kobe is at the point of trying to break into that top 10 players all time. LeBron is expected to be competing for greatest player of all time. Who knows if he will ever reach that level. Thats a bit far off still. But Kobe was never expected to rank that high up on the all time list.You say only Kobe fans think Kobe is the best. So forget about my opinion, what about the opinion of Michael Jordan? Jordan was the last great player in the game before Kobe, so he should be the one to pass the torch. And he clearly said this year, that Kobe is better than Lebron, and that because of his style of play he will continue to have more durability than Lebron.Jordan was the last great player?? Are u kidding me? Jordan was great, the greatest. Once Jordan retired, you have a big group of great players who will all be HOF'ers. Kobe is simply one in that group. You have Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, etc. Let me ask you this, take your own personal bias out of it. Shaq and Duncan right now are typically ranked in the top 10 on most experts "10 best all time players lists". Kobe is not, or right on the edge. Jordan is one opinion. Kobe patterned his game after...who? Do you think Jordan is gonna say a big man is the best player in the league? Hell no. Have you noticed the way the media always manages to exclude bigmen from the "Best Player in the League" talks? Its solely reserved for perimeter players. It has been that way since Jordan. Basically, its reserved for players who create a lot of highlights...and bigmen dont. Good marketing huh? Even when Shaq was in his prime, they didnt like to call him the best player in the league...so they called him the "Most Dominant". Duncan has 3 finals MVPs, and 2 league MVPs, theyve never liked to call him the best PLAYER. Only the "best bigman". So its all bullshit...As for Jordan again. Take this into account as well. People like NIK have argued for years that MJ has this overwhelming ego (worse then Kobe's they say LOL). Well, do u think the man with the giant ego is gonna say Lebron is the best right now, when a lot of experts think Lebron could eventually surpass Jordan? Or do u think he (and his so called giant ego) will say Kobe is the greatest, knowing that most experts think he wont surpass Jordan?Forget about what Jordan said or what Magic said, Kobe is simply greater because he has what it takes to perform at the highest level on the biggest stage. Why do you think Shaq and Duncan were considered the greatest bigs during that era? BECAUSE THEY WON. THEY DELIVERED RINGS TO THEIR FRANCHISES. If it were Kevin Garnett and Chris Webber winning rings during that era, they would be in that discussion... they're not, and even though Garnett's status sky-rocketed after winning a ring with Boston, he will never be debated with Duncan, because it was Duncan who consistently won on the big stage and not Garnett. you realize that Duncan wouldn't be considered as great as he is currently considered if he had never won on the biggest stage, right? The same applies to LeBron, and you being a Spurs fan, should be the first to acknowledge that.The problem is youre leaving out certain aspects to this argument man. Yes, Duncan winning championships is huge. Would he be one of the best all time PFs without them? Of course. The fact that he won 4 and the Spurs have been so good during his era has helped make him the best PF all time. But what youre failing to bring up is the fact that Duncan was the MAIN focal point in those championships. He was the guy. He was THE superstar. There are no other surefire HOF's on those teams, OTHER then Robinson....and Duncan was the MVP of THOSE series as well. So yeah, when someone uses Horry as an argument...its a bit of a stretch. But the fact remains, that I dont put a TON of weight on championships won...unless you are THE man on the team. THE leader. Like it or not, Kobe has only been THE man during a Laker championship for one of those runs. We can argue whether him or Shaq was the focal point of the three-peat Lakers all day. But at the very least you have to agree he was sharing the spotlight on those teams. Jordan was never sharing the spotlight....Duncan wasnt...shit, Hakeem wasnt....and LeBron for damn sure isnt. Ive said it a million times man. For a career....whos better? Kobe or LeBron? The answer is Kobe. Today...right now, who is the better player? IMO...LeBron. I dont think youre insane for thinking Kobe tho man. Thats your opinion. I only think your insane when you think its ridiculous for anyone to say LeBron. I think its as close as it could be. So I respect the opinion that Kobe is better. I respect the opinion that LeBron is better. Both are valid. I just think its LeBron right now.
Quote from: Jaydc thinks Jesus is an Uncle Tom on May 04, 2010, 08:58:30 PMBut the fact remains lebron is already in those talks without a ring.another solid pointLebron is already on most people's top 20 ever list just based on age 18-25i'd say here is my top 20 of all time at the momentMichael jordanlarry birdoscar robertsonmagic johnsonbill russellhakeemshaqwilt the stiltkareemtim duncankevin garnettcharles barkleyjohn stocktonkarl malonejerry westDr. jisiah thomaslebron jameskevin mchale
Quote from: Mr. Bones on May 04, 2010, 09:14:21 PMQuote from: Jaydc thinks Jesus is an Uncle Tom on May 04, 2010, 08:58:30 PMBut the fact remains lebron is already in those talks without a ring.another solid pointLebron is already on most people's top 20 ever list just based on age 18-25i'd say here is my top 20 of all time at the momentMichael jordanlarry birdoscar robertsonmagic johnsonbill russellhakeemshaqwilt the stiltkareemtim duncankevin garnettcharles barkleyjohn stocktonkarl malonejerry westDr. jisiah thomaslebron jameskevin mchaleLOL@putting some of those names above Kobe Horrible, Hack.