Was Dr. Dre involved in Eminem's (feat. Jay-Z/Royce Da 5 9) ''Renegade''?

[Shallow]

Almost every typical Hip-Hop song's bass is a sample of another song that has been low-passed..  Of course Em's style sounds like Dre's..  They worked closely together for years and no doubt Dre taught him alot and had alot of influence on his style..  Certain elements of "Eminem productions" are thanks to DJ Head, Bass Bros, and Dr. Dre.  Especially the mixing...  It's the same as when you start rapping and your style is very similar to lots of the rappers  you actually listen to...

I don't see your beef here.. 

My beef? What makes the "production" Renegade any better than Em's beats on the first d12 album, or Em Show? People can't answer that because there is no difference in the production. It's the exact same style as Soldier, or Devils Night or Square Dance. The musical style might be different, but the production is the same. And people are on here thinking it was so much better Dre had to have had a part in it?

[OG Hack Wilson]

1-jayz ruined this classic song...should have never been released with his wackass BIG and EPMD line stealing clown replacing good ol' Royce

2-whoever made the beat it was fire

[The-Leak (aka) kingwell (bka) JULES]

Almost every typical Hip-Hop song's bass is a sample of another song that has been low-passed..  Of course Em's style sounds like Dre's..  They worked closely together for years and no doubt Dre taught him alot and had alot of influence on his style..  Certain elements of "Eminem productions" are thanks to DJ Head, Bass Bros, and Dr. Dre.  Especially the mixing...  It's the same as when you start rapping and your style is very similar to lots of the rappers  you actually listen to...

I don't see your beef here.. 

My beef? What makes the "production" Renegade any better than Em's beats on the first d12 album, or Em Show? People can't answer that because there is no difference in the production. It's the exact same style as Soldier, or Devils Night or Square Dance. The musical style might be different, but the production is the same. And people are on here thinking it was so much better Dre had to have had a part in it?

What makes the production stand-out over most Em beats on Renegade?  For me, it's the bassline.  I bet if you went and listened to all of the Em beats Jeff Bass was involved in, the basslines are gonna be the better ones you've heard on an Em production...

Even now, Eminem has Resto by his side on almost every track, working with another musician is gonna make your song better, almost all of the time.  Two minds are greater than one...

In Soldier, it's obvious the main rhythm and drums are Em, and the little elements (foot stomps, strings on the chorus) and probably the mixing are Resto..

We all know Dre and Eminem work with other people when creating and mixing beats, it's not secret..  And nothing to be ashamed of..  And yes you're right, more people should be aware there are other people in the studio that are taking Em's beat to the next level, it's not always Dr. Dre..

[Lucifuge]

every hip hop producer got some people when they mixing or do some shit like that.thats why you got scools for that shit. bla bla. damn what a dumb ass conversation

[Shallow]

Almost every typical Hip-Hop song's bass is a sample of another song that has been low-passed..  Of course Em's style sounds like Dre's..  They worked closely together for years and no doubt Dre taught him alot and had alot of influence on his style..  Certain elements of "Eminem productions" are thanks to DJ Head, Bass Bros, and Dr. Dre.  Especially the mixing...  It's the same as when you start rapping and your style is very similar to lots of the rappers  you actually listen to...

I don't see your beef here.. 

My beef? What makes the "production" Renegade any better than Em's beats on the first d12 album, or Em Show? People can't answer that because there is no difference in the production. It's the exact same style as Soldier, or Devils Night or Square Dance. The musical style might be different, but the production is the same. And people are on here thinking it was so much better Dre had to have had a part in it?

What makes the production stand-out over most Em beats on Renegade?  For me, it's the bassline.  I bet if you went and listened to all of the Em beats Jeff Bass was involved in, the basslines are gonna be the better ones you've heard on an Em production...

Even now, Eminem has Resto by his side on almost every track, working with another musician is gonna make your song better, almost all of the time.  Two minds are greater than one...

In Soldier, it's obvious the main rhythm and drums are Em, and the little elements (foot stomps, strings on the chorus) and probably the mixing are Resto..

We all know Dre and Eminem work with other people when creating and mixing beats, it's not secret..  And nothing to be ashamed of..  And yes you're right, more people should be aware there are other people in the studio that are taking Em's beat to the next level, it's not always Dr. Dre..

So how is this bass line produced better? rather than simply composed better?

[The-Leak (aka) kingwell (bka) JULES]

Almost every typical Hip-Hop song's bass is a sample of another song that has been low-passed..  Of course Em's style sounds like Dre's..  They worked closely together for years and no doubt Dre taught him alot and had alot of influence on his style..  Certain elements of "Eminem productions" are thanks to DJ Head, Bass Bros, and Dr. Dre.  Especially the mixing...  It's the same as when you start rapping and your style is very similar to lots of the rappers  you actually listen to...

I don't see your beef here.. 

My beef? What makes the "production" Renegade any better than Em's beats on the first d12 album, or Em Show? People can't answer that because there is no difference in the production. It's the exact same style as Soldier, or Devils Night or Square Dance. The musical style might be different, but the production is the same. And people are on here thinking it was so much better Dre had to have had a part in it?

What makes the production stand-out over most Em beats on Renegade?  For me, it's the bassline.  I bet if you went and listened to all of the Em beats Jeff Bass was involved in, the basslines are gonna be the better ones you've heard on an Em production...

Even now, Eminem has Resto by his side on almost every track, working with another musician is gonna make your song better, almost all of the time.  Two minds are greater than one...

In Soldier, it's obvious the main rhythm and drums are Em, and the little elements (foot stomps, strings on the chorus) and probably the mixing are Resto..

We all know Dre and Eminem work with other people when creating and mixing beats, it's not secret..  And nothing to be ashamed of..  And yes you're right, more people should be aware there are other people in the studio that are taking Em's beat to the next level, it's not always Dr. Dre..

So how is this bass line produced better? rather than simply composed better?

It's not, it's produced like every other Em song... I meant the composing of it is badass.

[Shallow]

Almost every typical Hip-Hop song's bass is a sample of another song that has been low-passed..  Of course Em's style sounds like Dre's..  They worked closely together for years and no doubt Dre taught him alot and had alot of influence on his style..  Certain elements of "Eminem productions" are thanks to DJ Head, Bass Bros, and Dr. Dre.  Especially the mixing...  It's the same as when you start rapping and your style is very similar to lots of the rappers  you actually listen to...

I don't see your beef here.. 

My beef? What makes the "production" Renegade any better than Em's beats on the first d12 album, or Em Show? People can't answer that because there is no difference in the production. It's the exact same style as Soldier, or Devils Night or Square Dance. The musical style might be different, but the production is the same. And people are on here thinking it was so much better Dre had to have had a part in it?

What makes the production stand-out over most Em beats on Renegade?  For me, it's the bassline.  I bet if you went and listened to all of the Em beats Jeff Bass was involved in, the basslines are gonna be the better ones you've heard on an Em production...

Even now, Eminem has Resto by his side on almost every track, working with another musician is gonna make your song better, almost all of the time.  Two minds are greater than one...

In Soldier, it's obvious the main rhythm and drums are Em, and the little elements (foot stomps, strings on the chorus) and probably the mixing are Resto..

We all know Dre and Eminem work with other people when creating and mixing beats, it's not secret..  And nothing to be ashamed of..  And yes you're right, more people should be aware there are other people in the studio that are taking Em's beat to the next level, it's not always Dr. Dre..

So how is this bass line produced better? rather than simply composed better?

It's not, it's produced like every other Em song... I meant the composing of it is badass.

And that my friend is the whole point of my argument.

[The-Leak (aka) kingwell (bka) JULES]

Almost every typical Hip-Hop song's bass is a sample of another song that has been low-passed..  Of course Em's style sounds like Dre's..  They worked closely together for years and no doubt Dre taught him alot and had alot of influence on his style..  Certain elements of "Eminem productions" are thanks to DJ Head, Bass Bros, and Dr. Dre.  Especially the mixing...  It's the same as when you start rapping and your style is very similar to lots of the rappers  you actually listen to...

I don't see your beef here.. 

My beef? What makes the "production" Renegade any better than Em's beats on the first d12 album, or Em Show? People can't answer that because there is no difference in the production. It's the exact same style as Soldier, or Devils Night or Square Dance. The musical style might be different, but the production is the same. And people are on here thinking it was so much better Dre had to have had a part in it?

What makes the production stand-out over most Em beats on Renegade?  For me, it's the bassline.  I bet if you went and listened to all of the Em beats Jeff Bass was involved in, the basslines are gonna be the better ones you've heard on an Em production...

Even now, Eminem has Resto by his side on almost every track, working with another musician is gonna make your song better, almost all of the time.  Two minds are greater than one...

In Soldier, it's obvious the main rhythm and drums are Em, and the little elements (foot stomps, strings on the chorus) and probably the mixing are Resto..

We all know Dre and Eminem work with other people when creating and mixing beats, it's not secret..  And nothing to be ashamed of..  And yes you're right, more people should be aware there are other people in the studio that are taking Em's beat to the next level, it's not always Dr. Dre..

So how is this bass line produced better? rather than simply composed better?

It's not, it's produced like every other Em song... I meant the composing of it is badass.

And that my friend is the whole point of my argument.

Well I initially made the comment about the bassline making the song, so I assume your "argument" is aimed at me..  I still don't get the point you're trying to get across to me though....

[Action!]

Nice little conversation. 

[Shallow]

Almost every typical Hip-Hop song's bass is a sample of another song that has been low-passed..  Of course Em's style sounds like Dre's..  They worked closely together for years and no doubt Dre taught him alot and had alot of influence on his style..  Certain elements of "Eminem productions" are thanks to DJ Head, Bass Bros, and Dr. Dre.  Especially the mixing...  It's the same as when you start rapping and your style is very similar to lots of the rappers  you actually listen to...

I don't see your beef here.. 

My beef? What makes the "production" Renegade any better than Em's beats on the first d12 album, or Em Show? People can't answer that because there is no difference in the production. It's the exact same style as Soldier, or Devils Night or Square Dance. The musical style might be different, but the production is the same. And people are on here thinking it was so much better Dre had to have had a part in it?

What makes the production stand-out over most Em beats on Renegade?  For me, it's the bassline.  I bet if you went and listened to all of the Em beats Jeff Bass was involved in, the basslines are gonna be the better ones you've heard on an Em production...

Even now, Eminem has Resto by his side on almost every track, working with another musician is gonna make your song better, almost all of the time.  Two minds are greater than one...

In Soldier, it's obvious the main rhythm and drums are Em, and the little elements (foot stomps, strings on the chorus) and probably the mixing are Resto..

We all know Dre and Eminem work with other people when creating and mixing beats, it's not secret..  And nothing to be ashamed of..  And yes you're right, more people should be aware there are other people in the studio that are taking Em's beat to the next level, it's not always Dr. Dre..

So how is this bass line produced better? rather than simply composed better?

It's not, it's produced like every other Em song... I meant the composing of it is badass.

And that my friend is the whole point of my argument.

Well I initially made the comment about the bassline making the song, so I assume your "argument" is aimed at me..  I still don't get the point you're trying to get across to me though....

I've got no beef with you. I entered the thread because I saw another consensus that Dre is a better producer than Em because the compositions are better, rather than because the production is better. Most fans don't seem to understand the difference. Now I'll be the first to say I prefer Dre's best productions over Em's best productions, because they are the same style of producing except Dre has a better ear for the style, and Dre does shave a better ear for what compositions to use in the production, but that last part wouldn't mean anything if he were producing a rock band dead set on what compositions they were using. Now would I take Dre over Em if I had already made up my mind as to what the music would be? Yes I would, and I would every time.

But now to bring in my own personal tastes on production, using hip hop producers for compositions already written and recorded I would prefer Havoc in the Murda Muzik style rather than Dre in either Chronic or 2001 style, because I like the rugged feel over the glossy feel.

For example here is a sample of the same recording with two different approaches at production. The first part of this recording is spruced up a bit fron the demo, the second part is the very same track finalized and released on record. Now in this case the production of this record took the demo and sucked some of the life and energy out of it it and took away from the song in my opinion. Same song, same melody, same lyrics, same recording, but two very different final products.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/vo9tk1

Now this may not be the best example to show why I prefer Havoc to Dre because this track in particular was not all that high gloss in production. So I'll use a better example to show both points of; difference in production style, and my own preference. The first half of this recording would be closer to how Dre would produce it and the second half would be closer to how Havoc would produce it.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/u3wy9r

Now the same song in both styles has merit and some people will love one and hate the other, some won't see that big a difference, and some will admit that the final version is the best version because it sounds more professional. But either way, it's the same song with two very different approaches at production. And production, not composition, is what I'm trying to highlight, because far too often people confuse the two. I like them both, I just prefer the rugged sound in general for my ears, but would prefer the more produced version for marketing purposes