Kobe...

[wcsoldier]

To rank greatest players of all time is almost  impossible and can't be accurate to me in lots of cases ... there are so many factors to be taken into consideration that can't be accurately compared imo ... position , era in which the player played , overall competition , rules ect ...

How can you really say Shaq has to be ranked higher than Wilt or vice versa ?

 The 2nd argument is that most of us have started watching B-Ball in the 80es at very best so how can we really comment on a O.Roberston , Elgin Baylor ect ... watching tapes 40 years later  is not the same we can't really judge and feel how was the competition , the overall game at that precised  moment 

[Sofa_King_Awesome]

Fuck Kobe, no homo

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

To rank greatest players of all time is almost  impossible and can't be accurate to me in lots of cases ... there are so many factors to be taken into consideration that can't be accurately compared imo ... position , era in which the player played , overall competition , rules ect ...

How can you really say Shaq has to be ranked higher than Wilt or vice versa ?

 The 2nd argument is that most of us have started watching B-Ball in the 80es at very best so how can we really comment on a O.Roberston , Elgin Baylor ect ... watching tapes 40 years later  is not the same we can't really judge and feel how was the competition , the overall game at that precised  moment 

Yeah I kind of agree. I think the consensus is obvious that MJ is the greatest of all time. I mean, you wont find too many arguments even from other greats. But yeah, its hard when ranking say...the top 10 or 15 players. To me, its more like there are different groups of greats. You have MJ who I say is the greatest. Then you have a group of about 5 or 6 guys who can be shuffled about in any order and it can be valid. Then another group...and another...etc.

[Mietek23]

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

lol if you put Shaq where Gasol is...this would be pretty symbolic of their three-peat run. Shaq in the drivers seat.....really the most important person in the car since he's at the wheel.....Kobe ridin shotgun, you know....the sidekick....and Phil....well....he's not doin much, just along for the ride really.

[teecee]

"Here's the heart of the matter: a stat that looks at how a performance like this can get lost and why these next two games could define Kobe's career. In the fourth quarters of the first four games in the Finals -- 48 minutes of action -- the Lakers had 82 possessions. In those possessions, Bryant had 57 touches. And within those 57 touches, he was 7-for-26 (26.9 percent) from the floor, scoring only 28 points.

In the fourth quarter of Game 5, he was 2-for-6 (33.3 percent), scoring nine points. In the last five minutes of the game, when the Lakers were down by as many as eight points, he had zero field goals and five points from the line. Making his game total of 38 points pointless. Because at that point of the game, it's about more than points. For Bryant, it's about an imprint and impact. It's about the mark he leaves on games after they're over."

"A mark that, even when he's played brilliantly in the Finals, we have yet to see. The Kobe Bryant that scares the "Shuttlesworth" out of opponents has still not shown up.

Which is why the next one (or two) game(s) have meaning beyond whether or not the Celtics are crowned champions at Kobe's (and the Lakers') expense. He's discovered his nemesis. It isn't one single player; instead, it's an entire team. Proof? 2008. More proof? 2010. The Celtics have become the Rafa to Kobe's Roger.

His inability, so far, to single-handedly be who we know he can be and do what we know he's capable of doing is making Tom Thibodeau look like the Buddy Ryan of basketball. It's making the Allens (Ray and Tony) look like Darren and Darrelle (Sharper and Revis). It's making the Celtics look like they need to put out a "Kobe Rules" book written by Dan Shaughnessy.

And just as Jordan found a way to overcome his kryptonite, so must Kobe. Two games from the title (one game from losing it), he needs to get the Celtics shook. He needs to be in the back of their minds, making them fearful that that Kobe game is about to happen … and there won't be a damn thing they can do to stop it.

It's beyond weathering the storm. It's beyond survival. Beyond the much-hyped revenge. Now, for Kobe, it's about one man taking the game's G.O.A.T. title (not just the NBA title) personally, and challenging it to the point that MJ as the Greatest Of All Time is either disproved or put into serious question.

It's about Kobe realizing that what happens next might ultimately be how he will be remembered. In the screenplay of his career, the outcome of the next one or two games is the beginning of how his film will end. Because this -- this moment -- is all he has left."


the above is taken from   http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?page=jackson/100614

[teecee]

The above is what is great, but so difficult about sports- the greatest make their teammates better.  I think Kobe does, but to what extent? 

[7even]

Another thing that really sets Jordan and Kobe apart is the off the ball actions. Jordan has been extraordinary without the ball, like getting crucial steals that led to decisive fast breaks and shit. Kinda like Rondo did sometimes in the Finals. Kobe doesn't have that to that huge extend. Also, his ballhandling has become shaky at times. If he wasn't still such a brilliant shotmaker, he'd be in serious trouble.

[theremedy360]

Another thing that really sets Jordan and Kobe apart is the off the ball actions. Jordan has been extraordinary without the ball, like getting crucial steals that led to decisive fast breaks and shit. Kinda like Rondo did sometimes in the Finals. Kobe doesn't have that to that huge extend. Also, his ballhandling has become shaky at times. If he wasn't still such a brilliant shotmaker, he'd be in serious trouble.

Kobe's ball handling has been pretty bad most of the year, I think a lot of that can be attributed to the broken index finger.

[Sccit]

the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron.  and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)

the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.

lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.

its either going to be kobe or mj



none of those old school guys  come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.


lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.

I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.

The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.

You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.

This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.

[Chamillitary Click]

so, Mr. Leader, Mr. Man-In-Charge, Mr. Motivater, Mr. Bryant can't get his players involved enough to have somebody score more than 12 points.

running up & down the court swinging his arms, whining like a bitch, pouting, belitting his teammates & this man is arguably the best "leader" in the NBA?

ahhh, you Laker fans always give me a good laugh.

[teecee]

there is such a fine line between your teammates not showing up, or the leader not leading.   Who knows what is happening?


All i Know is that IF the Lakers lose tonight, Kobe's leadership will be questioned, right or wrong.   



But in the end, Kobe is a generational talent, and one of the best ever.   I think its almost unfair to compare his career to MJ's....cuz he just is never gonna get there.   BUT, even if he loses this one, he will be one of the best ever.


And NIK, many considered MJ the best player in the league in the late 80's, but it wasn't conclusive, kinda like how many consider Kobe the best, but some still don't. 

[Chamillitary Click]

^i'm just saying, when LeBron's teammates don't play, it's allllll LeBron.

Kobe gets the teammate excuse though?

he got out of the triangle, there was no movement; it was just Kobe trying to do it all alone.

[Sccit]

so, Mr. Leader, Mr. Man-In-Charge, Mr. Motivater, Mr. Bryant can't get his players involved enough to have somebody score more than 12 points.

running up & down the court swinging his arms, whining like a bitch, pouting, belitting his teammates & this man is arguably the best "leader" in the NBA?

ahhh, you Laker fans always give me a good laugh.

aren't you the fucking moron who said Lebron lost because he didn't have any decent teammates when he let his team down in that epic chokejob against Boston?

[Chamillitary Click]

so, Mr. Leader, Mr. Man-In-Charge, Mr. Motivater, Mr. Bryant can't get his players involved enough to have somebody score more than 12 points.

running up & down the court swinging his arms, whining like a bitch, pouting, belitting his teammates & this man is arguably the best "leader" in the NBA?

ahhh, you Laker fans always give me a good laugh.

aren't you the fucking moron who said Lebron lost because he didn't have any decent teammates when he let his team down in that epic chokejob against Boston?

he has decent teammates, but they didn't play.

i didn't see LeBron moping around like a little bitch.

LeBron had a triple-double, he obviously tried to get them involved.

LeBron wishes Big Z could be an assist shy of a triple-double in an elimination game.