Kobe...

[Chamillitary Click]

^lol, exactly.

Also, yeah, I'm not saying he isn't one of the best but look at Doc Rivers for example; had the worst record in Celtics history & now he's regarded as good because three future HOF's & a sick young pg saved his ass lol.

[Sccit]

the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron.  and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)

the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.

lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.

its either going to be kobe or mj



none of those old school guys  come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.


lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.

I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.

The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.

You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.

This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.

LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.

Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him

Jordan- 6 Titles,  6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award,  1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team

I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)

As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc.  Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol

Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe

I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments?   Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court.  What exactly would it take?


I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than  Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).

So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments?   We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him

I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.

Stat Lines   Points  Rebs  Assts  Steals  FGM  FGA  FG%

Jordan-        69      18      6        4       23    37   .621
Bryant-        81       6       2        3       28    46   .608

it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.

Oh and...never faced teams like the Celtics? lol. The Celtics played like shit during this finals. It went 7 games because the Lakers played like shit also lol. Im not saying the Celtics are a bad team. Obviously they arent. But I would take those Sonic and Jazz teams over this aging Celtic squad that the Lakers were lucky to beat.

both teams played like shit on offense, because both teams played tremendous on defense...what dont u get? LOL. LMAO@"Lakers were lucky to beat Boston"...Jordan was lucky not to get the offensive foul called against Bryon Russell on his last shot in a Bulls uniform...Lakers finding a way to win a grind-it-out game was not luck...it was PASSION.

lol Their poor offense made the defense look good. It wasnt just amazing defensive stops...it was sloppy play on offense by both teams. Seriously, this was one of the worst finals series Ive ever seen as far as quality of play. The Lakers deserve the title, they won...point blank. But I guarantee you this isnt what you or any other Kobe fan was hoping for. You guys were hoping to see Kobe dominate and solidify his spot in history. He didnt though, and everyone knows that. You just hate to accept it. Its a championship, so good for him and the Lakers. But yes, luck played a role. Passion too, I wont take that away from them. But I DO believe if Perkins played...the Celtics might have won game 7.

what do u mean this isn't what we were hoping for? we just took out boston in a finals game 7, how fucking stupid can u make urself sound?! lmao...this is everything we were hoping for and much, MUCH more...laker fans are straight thizzin, all across LA....and the mufuckin world.

You wont admit it on here, but we all know. You were hoping for a dominant performance by Kobe. Obviously hoping for a Laker championship. But you wanted to be able to come on here and say "SEE...Kobe just showed he is the greatest EVER!!!!" lol But you cant...cus his play was...eh.

LOL...he grabbed 15 boards in a Finals game, because he knew the winner of the rebounding battle won every game of the series. Jordan never pulled that many rebounds in a Finals game. What makes scoring more important than rebounding, especially in a grind it out game like that? Give Kobe his props and STFU.

LOL you are really runnin out of shit arent you?

NOW your argument is that Kobe's thought process before game 7 was..."I know that rebounds are the most important thing, so Im going to grab 15 boards...and shoot 6-24 from the field lol.

Obviously...doesn't that make sense?

His entire career he's made a point of grabbing rebounds before even thinking the word "shoot".

That's why he was forcing up shots in double teams in the first half because he figured that he was so set on grabbing the rebounds that he might as well just close his eyes & throw up turn-a-rounds, while falling out of bounds in the hopes of grabbing more of them.

Pay no mind to the tallest man on the Celtics sitting in that ridiculous green, striped dress shirt; that Perkins fella. He made no difference in the Lakers/Kobe's rebounding game; pre-game I heard Phil telling them to forget scoring, forget getting good looks; just grab rebounds & now we have back-to-back champs.

Speaking of Phil, the guy just knows how to win; he took arguably the two greatest players of all time, with the most dominate big man ever & won 11 rings! How impressive.

I mean, I made the point that Kobe had a strong cast this year & that might have been a reason for winning, but then I was informed that this Jordan fella had an "even better" cast; Phil must have a gameplan drawn up from God or something.

lol Phil has benefited greatly from the players he has inherited. He managed to win 6 titles sitting on the sidelines while Jordan ran the team....and from that point on, his title count allowed everything he does to be considered "genius" lol. I would never say he isnt one of the greatest coaches ever. You gotta include him just cus of the titles. But Phil could fall asleep on his little high chair during a game....and the media would say "Look at Phil...he is so great...he trusts his players so much that he can sleep during a game....thats the Zen master"

Godless people like you wouldn't understand Phil Jackson in the first place...

[Shallow]

Cham; Phil's importance comes from his ability to keep superstars from thinking they're bigger than the team. The NBA is filled with ego-driven head cases and Phil Jackson is one of the very few that can run his team like an NFL coach. He has authority. It's not the game plan. This isn't a Rex Ryan playbook of blitzes and disguised coverages. Basketball is much simpler than Football. A few plays here and there but in the end it's much more up to execution on the court. What Jackson has shown he can do better than any other coach is get NBA players to listen and follow orders. Doc Rivers on this year's Lakers would have lost control of the team and Boston probably would have won. We may have seen Gasol running around outside the 3 point line trying to be Reggie Miller like Rasheed Wallace was doing. That shit doesn't happen on a Phil Jackson team.

[Chamillitary Click]

Cham; Phil's importance comes from his ability to keep superstars from thinking they're bigger than the team. The NBA is filled with ego-driven head cases and Phil Jackson is one of the very few that can run his team like an NFL coach. He has authority. It's not the game plan. This isn't a Rex Ryan playbook of blitzes and disguised coverages. Basketball is much simpler than Football. A few plays here and there but in the end it's much more up to execution on the court. What Jackson has shown he can do better than any other coach is get NBA players to listen and follow orders. Doc Rivers on this year's Lakers would have lost control of the team and Boston probably would have won. We may have seen Gasol running around outside the 3 point line trying to be Reggie Miller like Rasheed Wallace was doing. That shit doesn't happen on a Phil Jackson team.

Sheed had won in Detriot shooting the 3 ball; that's his game.

I'm not saying Phil is worthless, he's a great coach; one of the best ever, but I'm sure plenty of coaches in the league could be in the same exact seat Phil is in now, if they got Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, Kobe, Gasol.

Some great teams, even on paper, favorites from the start & I guess he "keeps it together", but it's not like it's something only Phil has lol.

I'm sure after winning with Jordan, Kobe & Shaq were almost star-stuck to be in his presence early in their LA careers.

But how much control did he really have this year? Kobe was basically physically falling apart & he was bitching Phil into giving him his 40+ minutes a night.

[Sccit]

Cham; Phil's importance comes from his ability to keep superstars from thinking they're bigger than the team. The NBA is filled with ego-driven head cases and Phil Jackson is one of the very few that can run his team like an NFL coach. He has authority. It's not the game plan. This isn't a Rex Ryan playbook of blitzes and disguised coverages. Basketball is much simpler than Football. A few plays here and there but in the end it's much more up to execution on the court. What Jackson has shown he can do better than any other coach is get NBA players to listen and follow orders. Doc Rivers on this year's Lakers would have lost control of the team and Boston probably would have won. We may have seen Gasol running around outside the 3 point line trying to be Reggie Miller like Rasheed Wallace was doing. That shit doesn't happen on a Phil Jackson team.

Sheed had won in Detriot shooting the 3 ball; that's his game.

I'm not saying Phil is worthless, he's a great coach; one of the best ever, but I'm sure plenty of coaches in the league could be in the same exact seat Phil is in now, if they got Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, Kobe, Gasol.

Some great teams, even on paper, favorites from the start & I guess he "keeps it together", but it's not like it's something only Phil has lol.

I'm sure after winning with Jordan, Kobe & Shaq were almost star-stuck to be in his presence early in their LA careers.

But how much control did he really have this year? Kobe was basically physically falling apart & he was bitching Phil into giving him his 40+ minutes a night.

phil has threepeated every time he's won...do you actually realize how hard that is to threepeat once, let alone three times? and these teams he took over had failed with the same cast, before he stepped in. Jordan failed with Doug Collins, Shaq and Kobe failed with Del Harris...It's not like he took over great teams that were already winning rings, so try n give credit where it's due, if you may.

[Shallow]

Cham; Phil's importance comes from his ability to keep superstars from thinking they're bigger than the team. The NBA is filled with ego-driven head cases and Phil Jackson is one of the very few that can run his team like an NFL coach. He has authority. It's not the game plan. This isn't a Rex Ryan playbook of blitzes and disguised coverages. Basketball is much simpler than Football. A few plays here and there but in the end it's much more up to execution on the court. What Jackson has shown he can do better than any other coach is get NBA players to listen and follow orders. Doc Rivers on this year's Lakers would have lost control of the team and Boston probably would have won. We may have seen Gasol running around outside the 3 point line trying to be Reggie Miller like Rasheed Wallace was doing. That shit doesn't happen on a Phil Jackson team.

Sheed had won in Detriot shooting the 3 ball; that's his game.

I'm not saying Phil is worthless, he's a great coach; one of the best ever, but I'm sure plenty of coaches in the league could be in the same exact seat Phil is in now, if they got Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, Kobe, Gasol.

Some great teams, even on paper, favorites from the start & I guess he "keeps it together", but it's not like it's something only Phil has lol.

I'm sure after winning with Jordan, Kobe & Shaq were almost star-stuck to be in his presence early in their LA careers.

But how much control did he really have this year? Kobe was basically physically falling apart & he was bitching Phil into giving him his 40+ minutes a night.

And if Ben Wallace was underneath the boards while Rasheed was going outside that'd be one thing, but when you are up 13 points in the 3rd there is no need for anyone to be shooting 3s, much less you're 7 footer. The way Boston played with the lead was like an NFL team being up by 3 TDs late in the game and deciding to run a shot gun spread. So either Doc Rivers is just a complete fool who doesn't understand how to slow the game down and eat the clock, or he couldn't control his ego mega stars.

I can't tell you what plenty of other coaches would have done, but I know what I've seen in the Phil Jackson run teams and what I've seen in most of the test of the league. You say plenty of guys could have won with those players, I say plenty of teams could have won this year with Phil Jackson. And I'm not even a fan of the guy. I hated it when he broke the Auerbach record and I hated the Bulls in the 90s.

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

Cham; Phil's importance comes from his ability to keep superstars from thinking they're bigger than the team. The NBA is filled with ego-driven head cases and Phil Jackson is one of the very few that can run his team like an NFL coach. He has authority. It's not the game plan. This isn't a Rex Ryan playbook of blitzes and disguised coverages. Basketball is much simpler than Football. A few plays here and there but in the end it's much more up to execution on the court. What Jackson has shown he can do better than any other coach is get NBA players to listen and follow orders. Doc Rivers on this year's Lakers would have lost control of the team and Boston probably would have won. We may have seen Gasol running around outside the 3 point line trying to be Reggie Miller like Rasheed Wallace was doing. That shit doesn't happen on a Phil Jackson team.

Sheed had won in Detriot shooting the 3 ball; that's his game.

I'm not saying Phil is worthless, he's a great coach; one of the best ever, but I'm sure plenty of coaches in the league could be in the same exact seat Phil is in now, if they got Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, Kobe, Gasol.

Some great teams, even on paper, favorites from the start & I guess he "keeps it together", but it's not like it's something only Phil has lol.

I'm sure after winning with Jordan, Kobe & Shaq were almost star-stuck to be in his presence early in their LA careers.

But how much control did he really have this year? Kobe was basically physically falling apart & he was bitching Phil into giving him his 40+ minutes a night.

phil has threepeated every time he's won...do you actually realize how hard that is to threepeat once, let alone three times? and these teams he took over had failed with the same cast, before he stepped in. Jordan failed with Doug Collins, Shaq and Kobe failed with Del Harris...It's not like he took over great teams that were already winning rings, so try n give credit where it's due, if you may.

so in other words...Kobe needed Phil in order to win any titles. Man, without Phil....no titles for Jordan....Kobe....Shaq. Well....Shaq won one in Miami. So I guess Shaq would have 1....while Jordan and Kobe would have none. That would really shoot those two pretty far down on the greatest players of all times list. I mean...with no championships and all.

[Sccit]

Cham; Phil's importance comes from his ability to keep superstars from thinking they're bigger than the team. The NBA is filled with ego-driven head cases and Phil Jackson is one of the very few that can run his team like an NFL coach. He has authority. It's not the game plan. This isn't a Rex Ryan playbook of blitzes and disguised coverages. Basketball is much simpler than Football. A few plays here and there but in the end it's much more up to execution on the court. What Jackson has shown he can do better than any other coach is get NBA players to listen and follow orders. Doc Rivers on this year's Lakers would have lost control of the team and Boston probably would have won. We may have seen Gasol running around outside the 3 point line trying to be Reggie Miller like Rasheed Wallace was doing. That shit doesn't happen on a Phil Jackson team.

Sheed had won in Detriot shooting the 3 ball; that's his game.

I'm not saying Phil is worthless, he's a great coach; one of the best ever, but I'm sure plenty of coaches in the league could be in the same exact seat Phil is in now, if they got Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, Kobe, Gasol.

Some great teams, even on paper, favorites from the start & I guess he "keeps it together", but it's not like it's something only Phil has lol.

I'm sure after winning with Jordan, Kobe & Shaq were almost star-stuck to be in his presence early in their LA careers.

But how much control did he really have this year? Kobe was basically physically falling apart & he was bitching Phil into giving him his 40+ minutes a night.

phil has threepeated every time he's won...do you actually realize how hard that is to threepeat once, let alone three times? and these teams he took over had failed with the same cast, before he stepped in. Jordan failed with Doug Collins, Shaq and Kobe failed with Del Harris...It's not like he took over great teams that were already winning rings, so try n give credit where it's due, if you may.

so in other words...Kobe needed Phil in order to win any titles. Man, without Phil....no titles for Jordan....Kobe....Shaq. Well....Shaq won one in Miami. So I guess Shaq would have 1....while Jordan and Kobe would have none. That would really shoot those two pretty far down on the greatest players of all times list. I mean...with no championships and all.

Nobody said they wouldn't have any titles, genius...but they wouldn't have as many. Learn to use your common sense instead of speakin out your ass all the time.

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

Cham; Phil's importance comes from his ability to keep superstars from thinking they're bigger than the team. The NBA is filled with ego-driven head cases and Phil Jackson is one of the very few that can run his team like an NFL coach. He has authority. It's not the game plan. This isn't a Rex Ryan playbook of blitzes and disguised coverages. Basketball is much simpler than Football. A few plays here and there but in the end it's much more up to execution on the court. What Jackson has shown he can do better than any other coach is get NBA players to listen and follow orders. Doc Rivers on this year's Lakers would have lost control of the team and Boston probably would have won. We may have seen Gasol running around outside the 3 point line trying to be Reggie Miller like Rasheed Wallace was doing. That shit doesn't happen on a Phil Jackson team.

Sheed had won in Detriot shooting the 3 ball; that's his game.

I'm not saying Phil is worthless, he's a great coach; one of the best ever, but I'm sure plenty of coaches in the league could be in the same exact seat Phil is in now, if they got Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, Kobe, Gasol.

Some great teams, even on paper, favorites from the start & I guess he "keeps it together", but it's not like it's something only Phil has lol.

I'm sure after winning with Jordan, Kobe & Shaq were almost star-stuck to be in his presence early in their LA careers.

But how much control did he really have this year? Kobe was basically physically falling apart & he was bitching Phil into giving him his 40+ minutes a night.

phil has threepeated every time he's won...do you actually realize how hard that is to threepeat once, let alone three times? and these teams he took over had failed with the same cast, before he stepped in. Jordan failed with Doug Collins, Shaq and Kobe failed with Del Harris...It's not like he took over great teams that were already winning rings, so try n give credit where it's due, if you may.

so in other words...Kobe needed Phil in order to win any titles. Man, without Phil....no titles for Jordan....Kobe....Shaq. Well....Shaq won one in Miami. So I guess Shaq would have 1....while Jordan and Kobe would have none. That would really shoot those two pretty far down on the greatest players of all times list. I mean...with no championships and all.

Nobody said they wouldn't have any titles, genius...but they wouldn't have as many. Learn to use your common sense instead of speakin out your ass all the time.

lol Kobe is so great. He's the greatest. You should get an "I Heart Kobe" shirt.