YEA..... Lebron Is Much Better

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

The real question is, who would you like to take the last shot?
Vince Carter of Kobe Bryant?

I just said Vince Carter has more game winners.

If I was having somebody take the last shot...it would be neither. Even Jamison shoots a better percentage in the clutch. For the Lakers, the best CLUTCH scorer percentagewise...is Gasol. Id have him take the shot.

[Chamillitary Click]

What you guys are failing to see is that LeBron wins games before there is even a "whose taking the last shot" question.

The game is over going into the 4th or halfway through the 4th.

Yeah these clutch stats don't really matter. All you have to do is ask yourself, if you were a coach, who would you like on your team ? I'd pick Lebron in the regular season and Kobe in the play offs.

lol they completely matter. The media does a good job of building up some of these guys and fans do the same. But if you are a coach, and you have one guy who shoots .250 on game winning shots....and another guy shoots .400....which guy would you rather have take the shot? Of course the coaches a lot of time put the ball in the superstars hands, but they are under a lot of pressure to do so. From fans...the franchise....the media. When your star player misses a game winner....oh well, he missed it. If the coach gives to another player...but maybe even a better option, and HE misses...the coach gets killed.

Yeah, but stats aren't biased. What good is an argument if it isn't biased?

[BOX5 the best poster on this site yell]

man if labron is suppose to be so good why he went and ran under d-wade's skirt? you labron bill waltons are probably cowards just like him, y'all would do anything for a win,and to damn afraid to lead a squad or anything on your own, if you equals was singers and rappers you'd probably feel you need a kanye or a dr dre to make you hot fucc'n lames,grow some nuts muthafuccas, or suffer from cryptorchidism like labron (fucc spelling his name right) yell

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

man if labron is suppose to be so good why he went and ran under d-wade's skirt? you labron bill waltons are probably cowards just like him, y'all would do anything for a win,and to damn afraid to lead a squad or anything on your own, if you equals was singers and rappers you'd probably feel you need a kanye or a dr dre to make you hot fucc'n lames,grow some nuts muthafuccas, or suffer from cryptorchidism like labron (fucc spelling his name right) yell

Who are the lebron fans on here? Cus Im not even a fan of the guy. Im just bein realistic. How did he run under "d-wade's skirt"? Cus they all decided to hook up and try to create a superteam. How is that hiding behind Wade? Lebron is still the biggest star on that team. And if the team fails, Lebron will take more of the blame than any of them. How come people who take shots at these guys, dont also call them "unselfish" for the fact that they all gave up money to play together? Its all just hate...for the sake of hate.

And bashing him for leaving Cleveland to win a title is kinda silly. Who are we comparing him to? Magic? Magic was drafted by the Lakers and won immediately cus the team was that good. Why the fuck would he ever wanna leave? lol. He would have been an idiot TO leave. Every agent in the world would tell their star player to go to LA and play with Kareem lol. Bird? Bird was drafted by the winningest franchise in NBA history. They were winning titles. They had a HUGE winning tradition. Why would HE go anywhere? He would be an idiot to leave. Kobe? lolol. Kobe was drafted and traded to the Lakers as a bench player. Again....the Lakers. The best spot for a player to go to. Its hollywood. Its exposure. Its a winning tradition. He was lucky enough to win at a young age also. He had Shaq. Why would HE go anywhere? He would have been an idiot to leave. And he actually WAS wanting to leave at one point after Shaq left. The ONLY star you can really compare to Lebron is Jordan. Cus Jordan played for the Bulls who didnt have a real winning tradition. They had some major hurdles to get past. And yeah, Jordan stayed.  But one thing to remember is, the game has changed. Players didnt have the same power then, that they do now. Lebron basically did what anyone would do if they worked somewhere, and saw a better opportunity elseware. Sometimes people look at these guys too much as superheroes. They play basketball, and get paid for it. Its their job. But unlike regular people, they dont get to "work" for their entire life. They have a small window of opportunity to make the most of it. If saying that Lebron leaving Cleveland makes him less of a player because he isnt as competitive as JORDAN...wow...i guess everybody is less of a player than we thought in that case.

[13th Duke]

You're arguing about who has the most game winners, when surely if we're talking real "clutch" situations (hate that word btw, it just means good under pressure) you should be finding out who has the most PLAYOFF game winners. I'm pretty sure that would be Kobe, without looking at any figures of course.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Lebron brick once or twice both in his performance and in helping his teammates get in the game versus the Celtics in the playoffs?

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

You're arguing about who has the most game winners, when surely if we're talking real "clutch" situations (hate that word btw, it just means good under pressure) you should be finding out who has the most PLAYOFF game winners. I'm pretty sure that would be Kobe, without looking at any figures of course.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Lebron brick once or twice both in his performance and in helping his teammates get in the game versus the Celtics in the playoffs?

Kobe fans like to use Kobe's clutchness as a basis for their argument. Game winners being ONE of the arguing points they used. If you check out my post in the other thread, I completely laid that myth to rest. Not just measuring game winners (where Kobe doesnt excell and is actually shooting BELOW the league average). All the way to measuring actual clutch minutes in a game. Which would be defined by the last 5 minutes of games where neither team is ahead by more than 5 points. Overtime included. Kobe looks very unimpressive when you actually look at the stats. Its simple, he just starts shooting way more during the clutch...but his shooting percentage is not good, and not even good compared to other NBA players. Not to mention Lebron outperforms him in the "clutch" in other key statistical categories like rebounds, assists, etc. As I said, the Lakers best go to guy (according to actual statistics and not just what we want to believe) is Gasol.

[13th Duke]

You're arguing about who has the most game winners, when surely if we're talking real "clutch" situations (hate that word btw, it just means good under pressure) you should be finding out who has the most PLAYOFF game winners. I'm pretty sure that would be Kobe, without looking at any figures of course.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Lebron brick once or twice both in his performance and in helping his teammates get in the game versus the Celtics in the playoffs?

Kobe fans like to use Kobe's clutchness as a basis for their argument. Game winners being ONE of the arguing points they used. If you check out my post in the other thread, I completely laid that myth to rest. Not just measuring game winners (where Kobe doesnt excell and is actually shooting BELOW the league average). All the way to measuring actual clutch minutes in a game. Which would be defined by the last 5 minutes of games where neither team is ahead by more than 5 points. Overtime included. Kobe looks very unimpressive when you actually look at the stats. Its simple, he just starts shooting way more during the clutch...but his shooting percentage is not good, and not even good compared to other NBA players. Not to mention Lebron outperforms him in the "clutch" in other key statistical categories like rebounds, assists, etc. As I said, the Lakers best go to guy (according to actual statistics and not just what we want to believe) is Gasol.

None of this is relevant to what I said. I don't care about what Kobe's statistics are, what this thread is about is Kobe vs Lebron. Lebron, right now, has nothing to even compete on the same level as Kobe. Not even statistically. I'd say winning the NBA Finals is pretty much the only statistic that matters.

I'm not a Kobe fan. In fact I really don't like the guy. And I'm also not a Lebron fan. I think the whole "Lebron's Decision" thing was a disgusting affair which embarrassed his former team that gave him everything they had and said "we're counting on you". He chose, rather than just leave normally and say "Hey Cleveland thanks for the memories but I need to move on", to make that decision without even informing his own team leaving them in the lurch and more than likely hardly even in the playoffs for years to come. He should be ashamed of himself for that.

I'm not going to get into this Kobe vs Lebron argument as I'm neither a Lakers fan or a Heat fan, but I will say that right now, from a neutral point of view, Lebron has years and years of hard work before he can even compare to Kobe.

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

You're arguing about who has the most game winners, when surely if we're talking real "clutch" situations (hate that word btw, it just means good under pressure) you should be finding out who has the most PLAYOFF game winners. I'm pretty sure that would be Kobe, without looking at any figures of course.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Lebron brick once or twice both in his performance and in helping his teammates get in the game versus the Celtics in the playoffs?

Kobe fans like to use Kobe's clutchness as a basis for their argument. Game winners being ONE of the arguing points they used. If you check out my post in the other thread, I completely laid that myth to rest. Not just measuring game winners (where Kobe doesnt excell and is actually shooting BELOW the league average). All the way to measuring actual clutch minutes in a game. Which would be defined by the last 5 minutes of games where neither team is ahead by more than 5 points. Overtime included. Kobe looks very unimpressive when you actually look at the stats. Its simple, he just starts shooting way more during the clutch...but his shooting percentage is not good, and not even good compared to other NBA players. Not to mention Lebron outperforms him in the "clutch" in other key statistical categories like rebounds, assists, etc. As I said, the Lakers best go to guy (according to actual statistics and not just what we want to believe) is Gasol.

None of this is relevant to what I said. I don't care about what Kobe's statistics are, what this thread is about is Kobe vs Lebron. Lebron, right now, has nothing to even compete on the same level as Kobe. Not even statistically. I'd say winning the NBA Finals is pretty much the only statistic that matters.

I'm not a Kobe fan. In fact I really don't like the guy. And I'm also not a Lebron fan. I think the whole "Lebron's Decision" thing was a disgusting affair which embarrassed his former team that gave him everything they had and said "we're counting on you". He chose, rather than just leave normally and say "Hey Cleveland thanks for the memories but I need to move on", to make that decision without even informing his own team leaving them in the lurch and more than likely hardly even in the playoffs for years to come. He should be ashamed of himself for that.

I'm not going to get into this Kobe vs Lebron argument as I'm neither a Lakers fan or a Heat fan, but I will say that right now, from a neutral point of view, Lebron has years and years of hard work before he can even compare to Kobe.

See heres the thing. There is no denying that as far as a career goes, Lebron has a lot of work to do still. But as far as on the court, it would take a very ridiculous person to say that these two arent neck and neck. I personally think Lebron is the better all around player. But obviously Kobe has had the better all around career so far.  Its just funny to me when Kobestans try to claim Kobe is better and it isnt even close, when Lebron is the league MVP lol. All year long Lebron was being called the best player in the world by virtually everyone, media included. Analysts...included. He was called that for his skills on the court. The minute the LAKERS won the title, Kobe fans thought it now made sense to say Kobe is lightyears ahead of Lebron on the court lol. As if the LAKERS winning a title somehow changed Kobe's skill level on the court as a player. It made his career better. Not HIM personally.

And the reason I bring up stats...is because stats DO matter. Are they absolutely everything? No. But clearly they matter or we wouldnt keep track of them. Kobestans arguments have always been that he is better in the clutch than Lebron. Truth is, he isnt. Thats a black and white argument. If you had player A and player B. And player B during "clutch" minutes had more game winning shots, shoots a better percentage from the field, had more game winning assists, has more rebounds, more assists period..etc...etc...what is the argument for player A being a better clutch performer??

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

You're arguing about who has the most game winners, when surely if we're talking real "clutch" situations (hate that word btw, it just means good under pressure) you should be finding out who has the most PLAYOFF game winners. I'm pretty sure that would be Kobe, without looking at any figures of course.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Lebron brick once or twice both in his performance and in helping his teammates get in the game versus the Celtics in the playoffs?

Kobe fans like to use Kobe's clutchness as a basis for their argument. Game winners being ONE of the arguing points they used. If you check out my post in the other thread, I completely laid that myth to rest. Not just measuring game winners (where Kobe doesnt excell and is actually shooting BELOW the league average). All the way to measuring actual clutch minutes in a game. Which would be defined by the last 5 minutes of games where neither team is ahead by more than 5 points. Overtime included. Kobe looks very unimpressive when you actually look at the stats. Its simple, he just starts shooting way more during the clutch...but his shooting percentage is not good, and not even good compared to other NBA players. Not to mention Lebron outperforms him in the "clutch" in other key statistical categories like rebounds, assists, etc. As I said, the Lakers best go to guy (according to actual statistics and not just what we want to believe) is Gasol.

None of this is relevant to what I said. I don't care about what Kobe's statistics are, what this thread is about is Kobe vs Lebron. Lebron, right now, has nothing to even compete on the same level as Kobe. Not even statistically. I'd say winning the NBA Finals is pretty much the only statistic that matters.

I'm not a Kobe fan. In fact I really don't like the guy. And I'm also not a Lebron fan. I think the whole "Lebron's Decision" thing was a disgusting affair which embarrassed his former team that gave him everything they had and said "we're counting on you". He chose, rather than just leave normally and say "Hey Cleveland thanks for the memories but I need to move on", to make that decision without even informing his own team leaving them in the lurch and more than likely hardly even in the playoffs for years to come. He should be ashamed of himself for that.

I'm not going to get into this Kobe vs Lebron argument as I'm neither a Lakers fan or a Heat fan, but I will say that right now, from a neutral point of view, Lebron has years and years of hard work before he can even compare to Kobe.

Oh, and no I didnt like the whole hour long sideshow to announce where Lebron was going either. I dont fault him for leaving though. I dont even fault him for not informing the team beforehand. None of us know what was going on there. And clearly, by Dan Gilberts actions, something could have been going on behind closed doors. The Cavs owner, in his attempt to make Lebron look bad, really made HIMself look like a classless piece of shit. So who knows what went on between him and Lebron.

[13th Duke]

You're arguing about who has the most game winners, when surely if we're talking real "clutch" situations (hate that word btw, it just means good under pressure) you should be finding out who has the most PLAYOFF game winners. I'm pretty sure that would be Kobe, without looking at any figures of course.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Lebron brick once or twice both in his performance and in helping his teammates get in the game versus the Celtics in the playoffs?

Kobe fans like to use Kobe's clutchness as a basis for their argument. Game winners being ONE of the arguing points they used. If you check out my post in the other thread, I completely laid that myth to rest. Not just measuring game winners (where Kobe doesnt excell and is actually shooting BELOW the league average). All the way to measuring actual clutch minutes in a game. Which would be defined by the last 5 minutes of games where neither team is ahead by more than 5 points. Overtime included. Kobe looks very unimpressive when you actually look at the stats. Its simple, he just starts shooting way more during the clutch...but his shooting percentage is not good, and not even good compared to other NBA players. Not to mention Lebron outperforms him in the "clutch" in other key statistical categories like rebounds, assists, etc. As I said, the Lakers best go to guy (according to actual statistics and not just what we want to believe) is Gasol.

None of this is relevant to what I said. I don't care about what Kobe's statistics are, what this thread is about is Kobe vs Lebron. Lebron, right now, has nothing to even compete on the same level as Kobe. Not even statistically. I'd say winning the NBA Finals is pretty much the only statistic that matters.

I'm not a Kobe fan. In fact I really don't like the guy. And I'm also not a Lebron fan. I think the whole "Lebron's Decision" thing was a disgusting affair which embarrassed his former team that gave him everything they had and said "we're counting on you". He chose, rather than just leave normally and say "Hey Cleveland thanks for the memories but I need to move on", to make that decision without even informing his own team leaving them in the lurch and more than likely hardly even in the playoffs for years to come. He should be ashamed of himself for that.

I'm not going to get into this Kobe vs Lebron argument as I'm neither a Lakers fan or a Heat fan, but I will say that right now, from a neutral point of view, Lebron has years and years of hard work before he can even compare to Kobe.

Oh, and no I didnt like the whole hour long sideshow to announce where Lebron was going either. I dont fault him for leaving though. I dont even fault him for not informing the team beforehand. None of us know what was going on there. And clearly, by Dan Gilberts actions, something could have been going on behind closed doors. The Cavs owner, in his attempt to make Lebron look bad, really made HIMself look like a classless piece of shit. So who knows what went on between him and Lebron.

Yeah what Dan Gilbert did was very stupid, and made his team look bad, but it doesn't excuse Lebron. He exploited his team and embarrassed them publicly. He showed absolutely no remorse or even respect for the franchise of the Cavs. I have no issue with him leaving, players switch teams all the time, its part of the game, but no-one else has gone out of their way to pretty much take the piss out of a team like he did. He's such a selfish man and selfish player that he didn't realise his own actions would be nothing more than a massive spit in the face to the team who gave him 7 years of their lives to him, and completely trusted him to lead everything at their own risk.

Also, with regards to your point on Lebron, he deserved the MVP in the regular season where he dominated most games with aplomb, but was he the Playoffs MVP? Definitely not....and isn't that really when it matters? For example, Boston did it the right way in saving their best for the playoffs and hitting their peak at the right time. Maybe Lebron needs to learn how to step it up a gear in the important games.

To be fair, he probably won't need to really, as D. Wade will be beside him the whole way.

[Controver$y King]

This shit was sick right here

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/4LiSUNTJqrQ&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/4LiSUNTJqrQ&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1</a>

[theremedy360]

Point is, Kobe has hit huge shots throughout his career and LeBron hasn't (aside from that one against the Magic and game against Detroit).

[westsiderider323]

lebron is wack as shit

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ivgrjY-CrrQ&amp;feature=player_embedded" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/ivgrjY-CrrQ&amp;feature=player_embedded</a>

[Chamillitary Click]

Kobe has literally nothing on LeBron but a jumpshot & rings that were won for him by playing team basketball.

LeBron alone (or with Mo Williams) 60+ wins, Kobe alone; 40 wins.

People being blind to the facts, smh,

[Meho]

Also, with regards to your point on Lebron, he deserved the MVP in the regular season where he dominated most games with aplomb, but was he the Playoffs MVP? Definitely not....and isn't that really when it matters? For example, Boston did it the right way in saving their best for the playoffs and hitting their peak at the right time. Maybe Lebron needs to learn how to step it up a gear in the important games.

To be fair, he probably won't need to really, as D. Wade will be beside him the whole way.
[/quote]

Bingo. That's what I've been saying the whole time about this clutch argument. Lebron may have better stats, is always killing it in the regular season and is deservingly an MVP but when play offs come...lights out. So you can't blame him for going to Miami, where Wade will take over the burden of just that.