YEA..... Lebron Is Much Better

[Sccit]

^we've went over this millions of times, you're right, but you've got shit pretty fuckin twisted in your head...the conclusion is that jordan was handed a franchise from day, coming off a successful college career, whereas kobe came out of high school and had to work his way to being as great as he is...that's why it's also argued by many that kobe has a stronger will, work ethic, and passion for the game than jordan did....but that's also why kobe will probably fall short in terms of stats and possibly accomplishments (if kobe wins over 6 titles, this will be argued).  kobe is more of a long-range shooter, so naturally, his field goal percentage will be lower...jordan also had all those losing years with chicago where he was simply a stat-machine, whereas when kobe was at that point in his career, he had to share offensive duties with shaq, which really took a lot of attention away from how good he really was and also deflated his stats...but the bottom line is, when it comes to what they can do on the court, there is absolutely NOTHING jordan coulda done that kobe couldn't...jordan, even with all the horrible teams he was on and exaggerated love/respect from league officiating, couldn't score 81 points in a single game...thats mostly because he never had the range kobe has (especially when he's in the zone). jordan is better short range, kobe is better long range...but when it comes to leading teams to the promise land, they are neck-and-neck...this is why i say if kobe leads the lakers to over 6 titles, he will definitely have surpassed jordan. pull up all the stats you want, cuz they wont prove shit...lebron has better stats than jordan, but is clearly nowhere near the player jordan was. stats do not determine shit...watch the players play, and see for yourself. kobe and jordan were in two different situations, so their stats, accomplishments, or accolades will never match...but as far as skills go, nobody in this league has ever been better than kobe. if he gets number 7, he is 24.....1 above jordan.

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

^we've went over this millions of times, you're right, but you've got shit pretty fuckin twisted in your head...the conclusion is that jordan was handed a franchise from day, coming off a successful college career, whereas kobe came out of high school and had to work his way to being as great as he is...that's why it's also argued by many that kobe has a stronger will, work ethic, and passion for the game than jordan did....but that's also why kobe will probably fall short in terms of stats and possibly accomplishments (if kobe wins over 6 titles, this will be argued).  kobe is more of a long-range shooter, so naturally, his field goal percentage will be lower...jordan also had all those losing years with chicago where he was simply a stat-machine, whereas when kobe was at that point in his career, he had to share offensive duties with shaq, which really took a lot of attention away from how good he really was and also deflated his stats...but the bottom line is, when it comes to what they can do on the court, there is absolutely NOTHING jordan coulda done that kobe couldn't...jordan, even with all the horrible teams he was on and exaggerated love/respect from league officiating, couldn't score 81 points in a single game...thats mostly because he never had the range kobe has (especially when he's in the zone). jordan is better short range, kobe is better long range...but when it comes to leading teams to the promise land, they are neck-and-neck...this is why i say if kobe leads the lakers to over 6 titles, he will definitely have surpassed jordan. pull up all the stats you want, cuz they wont prove shit...lebron has better stats than jordan, but is clearly nowhere near the player jordan was. stats do not determine shit...watch the players play, and see for yourself. kobe and jordan were in two different situations, so their stats, accomplishments, or accolades will never match...but as far as skills go, nobody in this league has ever been better than kobe. if he gets number 7, he is 24.....1 above jordan.

I wanna see who it is that says Kobe has a stronger will, passion, and work ethic than Jordan lol.

And yes, youre right...Jordan was forced to take a bad team and turn them into champs. Kobe was handed the Lakers lol. Kobe came into the ideal situation for a young kid who didnt know shit. If you wanna use the fact that Jordan was on a bad team to say thats why his stats were better, then you can also use the fact that Kobe was handed the Lakers as the reason why he has 5 titles. Remember Shaq was the man for three of them. You like to conveniently forget that. You lose all credibility when you say "in terms of leading a team to the promise land they are neck and neck" LOL!!!. Kobe has LEAD two teams to the promise land. Not that it isnt impressive, of course it is. But you are only making yourself look retarded by claiming that Kobe LEADING two teams to the title is the same as Jordan leading six. Duncan lead FOUR teams to the title, and it still isnt on Jordans level. Bottom line, Kobe wont accomplish anywhere NEAR what Jordan did...and he will have more seasons in the league to do it. He has the CHANCE to catch him in titles. But that isnt enough as Jordan was NEVER the second best player on his team. And that ONE game youre gonna use? lol Seriously? That ONE game. lol. I think Jordan could have scored 81. But who knows. As for that ONE game. Jordan had the statistically better game and shot a better percentage from the field. So to use the point TOTAL is kind of silly. It would be one thing if Kobe shot better from the field. But simply taking 9 more shots...eh.

[Sccit]

^we've went over this millions of times, you're right, but you've got shit pretty fuckin twisted in your head...the conclusion is that jordan was handed a franchise from day, coming off a successful college career, whereas kobe came out of high school and had to work his way to being as great as he is...that's why it's also argued by many that kobe has a stronger will, work ethic, and passion for the game than jordan did....but that's also why kobe will probably fall short in terms of stats and possibly accomplishments (if kobe wins over 6 titles, this will be argued).  kobe is more of a long-range shooter, so naturally, his field goal percentage will be lower...jordan also had all those losing years with chicago where he was simply a stat-machine, whereas when kobe was at that point in his career, he had to share offensive duties with shaq, which really took a lot of attention away from how good he really was and also deflated his stats...but the bottom line is, when it comes to what they can do on the court, there is absolutely NOTHING jordan coulda done that kobe couldn't...jordan, even with all the horrible teams he was on and exaggerated love/respect from league officiating, couldn't score 81 points in a single game...thats mostly because he never had the range kobe has (especially when he's in the zone). jordan is better short range, kobe is better long range...but when it comes to leading teams to the promise land, they are neck-and-neck...this is why i say if kobe leads the lakers to over 6 titles, he will definitely have surpassed jordan. pull up all the stats you want, cuz they wont prove shit...lebron has better stats than jordan, but is clearly nowhere near the player jordan was. stats do not determine shit...watch the players play, and see for yourself. kobe and jordan were in two different situations, so their stats, accomplishments, or accolades will never match...but as far as skills go, nobody in this league has ever been better than kobe. if he gets number 7, he is 24.....1 above jordan.

I wanna see who it is that says Kobe has a stronger will, passion, and work ethic than Jordan lol.

And yes, youre right...Jordan was forced to take a bad team and turn them into champs. Kobe was handed the Lakers lol. Kobe came into the ideal situation for a young kid who didnt know shit. If you wanna use the fact that Jordan was on a bad team to say thats why his stats were better, then you can also use the fact that Kobe was handed the Lakers as the reason why he has 5 titles. Remember Shaq was the man for three of them. You like to conveniently forget that. You lose all credibility when you say "in terms of leading a team to the promise land they are neck and neck" LOL!!!. Kobe has LEAD two teams to the promise land. Not that it isnt impressive, of course it is. But you are only making yourself look retarded by claiming that Kobe LEADING two teams to the title is the same as Jordan leading six. Duncan lead FOUR teams to the title, and it still isnt on Jordans level. Bottom line, Kobe wont accomplish anywhere NEAR what Jordan did...and he will have more seasons in the league to do it. He has the CHANCE to catch him in titles. But that isnt enough as Jordan was NEVER the second best player on his team. And that ONE game youre gonna use? lol Seriously? That ONE game. lol. I think Jordan could have scored 81. But who knows. As for that ONE game. Jordan had the statistically better game and shot a better percentage from the field. So to use the point TOTAL is kind of silly. It would be one thing if Kobe shot better from the field. But simply taking 9 more shots...eh.

many have said it in the past, and many will in the future...


LOL...so if the Shannon Brown was "handed" the Lakers the way Kobe was, he'd have 5 titles now? a player who came outa high school to a stacked team and had to play behind an all-star Eddie Jones...THATS WHAT KOBE WAS. he had to work his way up... what dont you get? you have way more chances of failing when you have to work into a rotation than when a team is just handed to you. that's just common sense. now that i think of it, most of what you say makes no fucking sense, man...really, MOST of it. you just said Kobe was handed the Lakers, yet it's the exact opposite of that. he was on that Lakers team, initially, as a 10th or 11th player in the rotation...Jordan was the one who was handed the Bulls. and you stay penalizing Kobe for his 1st three titles...honestlly, the fact that Kobe was 21-22-23 when he won those titles, as the 1st option in many of the games, might be more amazing than anything Jordan was capable of doing in the 1st portion of his career...why penalize Kobe's greatness because he had to play with Shaq? that makes no sense...Kobe was a captain of the team, was already a future hall-of-famer, was the one hitting the clutch shots and running the offense down the stretch...his stats were pretty much on par with Shaq's....HE IS NOT A ROBIN. GET IT? If he's a Robin, so was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and you KNOW that simply sounds fuckin stupid...As for the 81 points, you can say what if, what if...many people have gone on record to say Kobe is more skilled than Jordan offensively...Jordan actually attempted WAY MORE field goals than Kobe has throughout his career, and even shot more field goals in a single game than Kobe ever did...yup! jordan has taken more shots in a single game than Kobe did in his 81 point performance! but fuck stats...it's not about that...take away the accolades, take away the stats, take away the rings, take away everything...on the court, kobe is neck-and-neck with jordan as far as skill, passion, talent, will, etc...there is nothing jordan could do that kobe couldn't...and i truly believe that kobe, with his skill and drive, woulda had 8 straight titles (or more) if he was in jordan's shoes.

[Chamillitary Click]

LOL, Michael Jordan's famous quote was "Those who work the hardest are the luckiest people".

It's been known that he got there early before practice & stayed late after practice.

Kobe was too busy raping white bitches & looking at Shaq saying, "You got me with those rings, right?" to have the work ethic in the same universe as Jordan.

& hypothetically, since you love the "Well, IF Kobe did this or he COULD do that", IF LeBron wins seven rings in the next 10 years & has more rings than both, you won't give him the credit because he was a "dick" and left Cleveland. So your opinion is, has been & forever will be irrelevant.

[theremedy360]

Another Kobe/MJ thread. My thoughts..we all grew up with MJ being shoved down our throats. He had the media all over his dick. Not to take away from his talent, but I think it's hard for people from this generation to even accept that someone could surpass him. I'm not saying Kobe has, because I think it's way too soon to say that. But, it's also way too soon to say he doesn't have a shot. On the court, there's really nothing that MJ did that Kobe can't do...

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

^we've went over this millions of times, you're right, but you've got shit pretty fuckin twisted in your head...the conclusion is that jordan was handed a franchise from day, coming off a successful college career, whereas kobe came out of high school and had to work his way to being as great as he is...that's why it's also argued by many that kobe has a stronger will, work ethic, and passion for the game than jordan did....but that's also why kobe will probably fall short in terms of stats and possibly accomplishments (if kobe wins over 6 titles, this will be argued).  kobe is more of a long-range shooter, so naturally, his field goal percentage will be lower...jordan also had all those losing years with chicago where he was simply a stat-machine, whereas when kobe was at that point in his career, he had to share offensive duties with shaq, which really took a lot of attention away from how good he really was and also deflated his stats...but the bottom line is, when it comes to what they can do on the court, there is absolutely NOTHING jordan coulda done that kobe couldn't...jordan, even with all the horrible teams he was on and exaggerated love/respect from league officiating, couldn't score 81 points in a single game...thats mostly because he never had the range kobe has (especially when he's in the zone). jordan is better short range, kobe is better long range...but when it comes to leading teams to the promise land, they are neck-and-neck...this is why i say if kobe leads the lakers to over 6 titles, he will definitely have surpassed jordan. pull up all the stats you want, cuz they wont prove shit...lebron has better stats than jordan, but is clearly nowhere near the player jordan was. stats do not determine shit...watch the players play, and see for yourself. kobe and jordan were in two different situations, so their stats, accomplishments, or accolades will never match...but as far as skills go, nobody in this league has ever been better than kobe. if he gets number 7, he is 24.....1 above jordan.

I wanna see who it is that says Kobe has a stronger will, passion, and work ethic than Jordan lol.

And yes, youre right...Jordan was forced to take a bad team and turn them into champs. Kobe was handed the Lakers lol. Kobe came into the ideal situation for a young kid who didnt know shit. If you wanna use the fact that Jordan was on a bad team to say thats why his stats were better, then you can also use the fact that Kobe was handed the Lakers as the reason why he has 5 titles. Remember Shaq was the man for three of them. You like to conveniently forget that. You lose all credibility when you say "in terms of leading a team to the promise land they are neck and neck" LOL!!!. Kobe has LEAD two teams to the promise land. Not that it isnt impressive, of course it is. But you are only making yourself look retarded by claiming that Kobe LEADING two teams to the title is the same as Jordan leading six. Duncan lead FOUR teams to the title, and it still isnt on Jordans level. Bottom line, Kobe wont accomplish anywhere NEAR what Jordan did...and he will have more seasons in the league to do it. He has the CHANCE to catch him in titles. But that isnt enough as Jordan was NEVER the second best player on his team. And that ONE game youre gonna use? lol Seriously? That ONE game. lol. I think Jordan could have scored 81. But who knows. As for that ONE game. Jordan had the statistically better game and shot a better percentage from the field. So to use the point TOTAL is kind of silly. It would be one thing if Kobe shot better from the field. But simply taking 9 more shots...eh.

many have said it in the past, and many will in the future...


LOL...so if the Shannon Brown was "handed" the Lakers the way Kobe was, he'd have 5 titles now? a player who came outa high school to a stacked team and had to play behind an all-star Eddie Jones...THATS WHAT KOBE WAS. he had to work his way up... what dont you get? you have way more chances of failing when you have to work into a rotation than when a team is just handed to you. that's just common sense. now that i think of it, most of what you say makes no fucking sense, man...really, MOST of it. you just said Kobe was handed the Lakers, yet it's the exact opposite of that. he was on that Lakers team, initially, as a 10th or 11th player in the rotation...Jordan was the one who was handed the Bulls. and you stay penalizing Kobe for his 1st three titles...honestlly, the fact that Kobe was 21-22-23 when he won those titles, as the 1st option in many of the games, might be more amazing than anything Jordan was capable of doing in the 1st portion of his career...why penalize Kobe's greatness because he had to play with Shaq? that makes no sense...Kobe was a captain of the team, was already a future hall-of-famer, was the one hitting the clutch shots and running the offense down the stretch...his stats were pretty much on par with Shaq's....HE IS NOT A ROBIN. GET IT? If he's a Robin, so was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and you KNOW that simply sounds fuckin stupid...As for the 81 points, you can say what if, what if...many people have gone on record to say Kobe is more skilled than Jordan offensively...Jordan actually attempted WAY MORE field goals than Kobe has throughout his career, and even shot more field goals in a single game than Kobe ever did...yup! jordan has taken more shots in a single game than Kobe did in his 81 point performance! but fuck stats...it's not about that...take away the accolades, take away the stats, take away the rings, take away everything...on the court, kobe is neck-and-neck with jordan as far as skill, passion, talent, will, etc...there is nothing jordan could do that kobe couldn't...and i truly believe that kobe, with his skill and drive, woulda had 8 straight titles (or more) if he was in jordan's shoes.

Youre comparing Shannon Brown to Kobe. I didnt say Kobe was a backup role player. I said he was fortunate enough to end up on the Lakers. I dont think anyone out there would argue that if Kobe stayed a Hornet he would have 5 titles right now. lol. When I say Kobe was handed the Lakers I dont mean as in him being given the team. I mean he ended up with a team that has a winning tradition, ownership that will spend anything to win, an all star roster, eventually landing one of the best bigmen of all time, a city where free agents flock to cus of media attention...etc...etc. Kobe got the chance to sit back and grow into his role and try to mature as a player. Jordan and Lebron were just given the keys to bad teams and told..."Go make us great!". Kobe didnt have that kind of pressure coming into the league. He just had to keep things afloat. If he would have flopped (you said yourself he was low on the rotation)...it would hardly even have been remembered. If Lebron flopped, he would be rated the biggest bust in Basketball history. It worked out good for Kobe cus he needed that time to mature. He wouldnt have been ready to lead clearly. And I see youre getting emotional about the Robin thing lol. Like it or not, Kobe will ALWAYS be penalized for those first three championships. Its not that they take AWAY from his career obviously. Its that you cant compare those titles to titles won by Jordan, or any other star who completely lead their team. Even you yourself know that YOU value the last two Kobe titles far more than the Shaq titles...because Kobe was the leader. Thats just the way shit is. Robinson didnt win titles until Duncan got there. Like it or not, those titles would have meant more to Robinsons career had he done it WITHOUT Duncan. The same as Kobe winning those titles. They would have meant more if he did it WITHOUT Shaq.

[Sccit]

^we've went over this millions of times, you're right, but you've got shit pretty fuckin twisted in your head...the conclusion is that jordan was handed a franchise from day, coming off a successful college career, whereas kobe came out of high school and had to work his way to being as great as he is...that's why it's also argued by many that kobe has a stronger will, work ethic, and passion for the game than jordan did....but that's also why kobe will probably fall short in terms of stats and possibly accomplishments (if kobe wins over 6 titles, this will be argued).  kobe is more of a long-range shooter, so naturally, his field goal percentage will be lower...jordan also had all those losing years with chicago where he was simply a stat-machine, whereas when kobe was at that point in his career, he had to share offensive duties with shaq, which really took a lot of attention away from how good he really was and also deflated his stats...but the bottom line is, when it comes to what they can do on the court, there is absolutely NOTHING jordan coulda done that kobe couldn't...jordan, even with all the horrible teams he was on and exaggerated love/respect from league officiating, couldn't score 81 points in a single game...thats mostly because he never had the range kobe has (especially when he's in the zone). jordan is better short range, kobe is better long range...but when it comes to leading teams to the promise land, they are neck-and-neck...this is why i say if kobe leads the lakers to over 6 titles, he will definitely have surpassed jordan. pull up all the stats you want, cuz they wont prove shit...lebron has better stats than jordan, but is clearly nowhere near the player jordan was. stats do not determine shit...watch the players play, and see for yourself. kobe and jordan were in two different situations, so their stats, accomplishments, or accolades will never match...but as far as skills go, nobody in this league has ever been better than kobe. if he gets number 7, he is 24.....1 above jordan.

I wanna see who it is that says Kobe has a stronger will, passion, and work ethic than Jordan lol.

And yes, youre right...Jordan was forced to take a bad team and turn them into champs. Kobe was handed the Lakers lol. Kobe came into the ideal situation for a young kid who didnt know shit. If you wanna use the fact that Jordan was on a bad team to say thats why his stats were better, then you can also use the fact that Kobe was handed the Lakers as the reason why he has 5 titles. Remember Shaq was the man for three of them. You like to conveniently forget that. You lose all credibility when you say "in terms of leading a team to the promise land they are neck and neck" LOL!!!. Kobe has LEAD two teams to the promise land. Not that it isnt impressive, of course it is. But you are only making yourself look retarded by claiming that Kobe LEADING two teams to the title is the same as Jordan leading six. Duncan lead FOUR teams to the title, and it still isnt on Jordans level. Bottom line, Kobe wont accomplish anywhere NEAR what Jordan did...and he will have more seasons in the league to do it. He has the CHANCE to catch him in titles. But that isnt enough as Jordan was NEVER the second best player on his team. And that ONE game youre gonna use? lol Seriously? That ONE game. lol. I think Jordan could have scored 81. But who knows. As for that ONE game. Jordan had the statistically better game and shot a better percentage from the field. So to use the point TOTAL is kind of silly. It would be one thing if Kobe shot better from the field. But simply taking 9 more shots...eh.

many have said it in the past, and many will in the future...


LOL...so if the Shannon Brown was "handed" the Lakers the way Kobe was, he'd have 5 titles now? a player who came outa high school to a stacked team and had to play behind an all-star Eddie Jones...THATS WHAT KOBE WAS. he had to work his way up... what dont you get? you have way more chances of failing when you have to work into a rotation than when a team is just handed to you. that's just common sense. now that i think of it, most of what you say makes no fucking sense, man...really, MOST of it. you just said Kobe was handed the Lakers, yet it's the exact opposite of that. he was on that Lakers team, initially, as a 10th or 11th player in the rotation...Jordan was the one who was handed the Bulls. and you stay penalizing Kobe for his 1st three titles...honestlly, the fact that Kobe was 21-22-23 when he won those titles, as the 1st option in many of the games, might be more amazing than anything Jordan was capable of doing in the 1st portion of his career...why penalize Kobe's greatness because he had to play with Shaq? that makes no sense...Kobe was a captain of the team, was already a future hall-of-famer, was the one hitting the clutch shots and running the offense down the stretch...his stats were pretty much on par with Shaq's....HE IS NOT A ROBIN. GET IT? If he's a Robin, so was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and you KNOW that simply sounds fuckin stupid...As for the 81 points, you can say what if, what if...many people have gone on record to say Kobe is more skilled than Jordan offensively...Jordan actually attempted WAY MORE field goals than Kobe has throughout his career, and even shot more field goals in a single game than Kobe ever did...yup! jordan has taken more shots in a single game than Kobe did in his 81 point performance! but fuck stats...it's not about that...take away the accolades, take away the stats, take away the rings, take away everything...on the court, kobe is neck-and-neck with jordan as far as skill, passion, talent, will, etc...there is nothing jordan could do that kobe couldn't...and i truly believe that kobe, with his skill and drive, woulda had 8 straight titles (or more) if he was in jordan's shoes.

Youre comparing Shannon Brown to Kobe. I didnt say Kobe was a backup role player. I said he was fortunate enough to end up on the Lakers. I dont think anyone out there would argue that if Kobe stayed a Hornet he would have 5 titles right now. lol. When I say Kobe was handed the Lakers I dont mean as in him being given the team. I mean he ended up with a team that has a winning tradition, ownership that will spend anything to win, an all star roster, eventually landing one of the best bigmen of all time, a city where free agents flock to cus of media attention...etc...etc. Kobe got the chance to sit back and grow into his role and try to mature as a player. Jordan and Lebron were just given the keys to bad teams and told..."Go make us great!". Kobe didnt have that kind of pressure coming into the league. He just had to keep things afloat. If he would have flopped (you said yourself he was low on the rotation)...it would hardly even have been remembered. If Lebron flopped, he would be rated the biggest bust in Basketball history. It worked out good for Kobe cus he needed that time to mature. He wouldnt have been ready to lead clearly. And I see youre getting emotional about the Robin thing lol. Like it or not, Kobe will ALWAYS be penalized for those first three championships. Its not that they take AWAY from his career obviously. Its that you cant compare those titles to titles won by Jordan, or any other star who completely lead their team. Even you yourself know that YOU value the last two Kobe titles far more than the Shaq titles...because Kobe was the leader. Thats just the way shit is. Robinson didnt win titles until Duncan got there. Like it or not, those titles would have meant more to Robinsons career had he done it WITHOUT Duncan. The same as Kobe winning those titles. They would have meant more if he did it WITHOUT Shaq.

Kobe woulda won titles anywhere...thats his personality with the combination of his ability. you think just any star player can be handed a franchise like the Lakers? you know how much work that takes? LOL. If LeBron was drafted to the Lakers and lost his first 7 seasons, he woulda been KICKED outta town...this aint no Cleveland. Kobe made it his goal to take over the franchise, and he did, ultimately being chosen by the franchise OVER Shaq, when Shaq was still playing 1st-team basketball and barely winding down his prime. And really,  Lakers made one of the fastest turnarounds in history after the '04-'05 expansion team catastrophe..and don't say "Lakers were given Gasol", every superstar needs great supporting players to win. either way, we were the best team in the league even before we acquired Gasol mid-season...Gasol without Kobe is no better than Antawn Jamison. But really, think about it from this perspective.. Scottie Pippen was amazing, that's something that people tend to forget..Scottie was the ultimate supporting player... probably more talented than almost anyone in the league today...and he was comfortable backing Jordan, even with his tremendous skill...Jordan and Pippen playing together back then would be like Kobe and LeBron playing together now...see what im sayin? you really can't discredit Kobe's ring when he was clearly a focal point of arguably the greatest 1-2 punch in NBA history. that would be like discrediting Kareem's rings cuz he had Magic or discrediting Jerry West's ring cuz he had Chamberlain. Kobe is that special...now, if we're talking about Tony Parker, or an aging Clyde Drexler...yes, their rings mean a lot less, because even though they were all-stars and sometimes even focal points, they were not playing at a hall-of-fame level...if you don't see that, then there must be something wrong witya.

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

^we've went over this millions of times, you're right, but you've got shit pretty fuckin twisted in your head...the conclusion is that jordan was handed a franchise from day, coming off a successful college career, whereas kobe came out of high school and had to work his way to being as great as he is...that's why it's also argued by many that kobe has a stronger will, work ethic, and passion for the game than jordan did....but that's also why kobe will probably fall short in terms of stats and possibly accomplishments (if kobe wins over 6 titles, this will be argued).  kobe is more of a long-range shooter, so naturally, his field goal percentage will be lower...jordan also had all those losing years with chicago where he was simply a stat-machine, whereas when kobe was at that point in his career, he had to share offensive duties with shaq, which really took a lot of attention away from how good he really was and also deflated his stats...but the bottom line is, when it comes to what they can do on the court, there is absolutely NOTHING jordan coulda done that kobe couldn't...jordan, even with all the horrible teams he was on and exaggerated love/respect from league officiating, couldn't score 81 points in a single game...thats mostly because he never had the range kobe has (especially when he's in the zone). jordan is better short range, kobe is better long range...but when it comes to leading teams to the promise land, they are neck-and-neck...this is why i say if kobe leads the lakers to over 6 titles, he will definitely have surpassed jordan. pull up all the stats you want, cuz they wont prove shit...lebron has better stats than jordan, but is clearly nowhere near the player jordan was. stats do not determine shit...watch the players play, and see for yourself. kobe and jordan were in two different situations, so their stats, accomplishments, or accolades will never match...but as far as skills go, nobody in this league has ever been better than kobe. if he gets number 7, he is 24.....1 above jordan.

I wanna see who it is that says Kobe has a stronger will, passion, and work ethic than Jordan lol.

And yes, youre right...Jordan was forced to take a bad team and turn them into champs. Kobe was handed the Lakers lol. Kobe came into the ideal situation for a young kid who didnt know shit. If you wanna use the fact that Jordan was on a bad team to say thats why his stats were better, then you can also use the fact that Kobe was handed the Lakers as the reason why he has 5 titles. Remember Shaq was the man for three of them. You like to conveniently forget that. You lose all credibility when you say "in terms of leading a team to the promise land they are neck and neck" LOL!!!. Kobe has LEAD two teams to the promise land. Not that it isnt impressive, of course it is. But you are only making yourself look retarded by claiming that Kobe LEADING two teams to the title is the same as Jordan leading six. Duncan lead FOUR teams to the title, and it still isnt on Jordans level. Bottom line, Kobe wont accomplish anywhere NEAR what Jordan did...and he will have more seasons in the league to do it. He has the CHANCE to catch him in titles. But that isnt enough as Jordan was NEVER the second best player on his team. And that ONE game youre gonna use? lol Seriously? That ONE game. lol. I think Jordan could have scored 81. But who knows. As for that ONE game. Jordan had the statistically better game and shot a better percentage from the field. So to use the point TOTAL is kind of silly. It would be one thing if Kobe shot better from the field. But simply taking 9 more shots...eh.

many have said it in the past, and many will in the future...


LOL...so if the Shannon Brown was "handed" the Lakers the way Kobe was, he'd have 5 titles now? a player who came outa high school to a stacked team and had to play behind an all-star Eddie Jones...THATS WHAT KOBE WAS. he had to work his way up... what dont you get? you have way more chances of failing when you have to work into a rotation than when a team is just handed to you. that's just common sense. now that i think of it, most of what you say makes no fucking sense, man...really, MOST of it. you just said Kobe was handed the Lakers, yet it's the exact opposite of that. he was on that Lakers team, initially, as a 10th or 11th player in the rotation...Jordan was the one who was handed the Bulls. and you stay penalizing Kobe for his 1st three titles...honestlly, the fact that Kobe was 21-22-23 when he won those titles, as the 1st option in many of the games, might be more amazing than anything Jordan was capable of doing in the 1st portion of his career...why penalize Kobe's greatness because he had to play with Shaq? that makes no sense...Kobe was a captain of the team, was already a future hall-of-famer, was the one hitting the clutch shots and running the offense down the stretch...his stats were pretty much on par with Shaq's....HE IS NOT A ROBIN. GET IT? If he's a Robin, so was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and you KNOW that simply sounds fuckin stupid...As for the 81 points, you can say what if, what if...many people have gone on record to say Kobe is more skilled than Jordan offensively...Jordan actually attempted WAY MORE field goals than Kobe has throughout his career, and even shot more field goals in a single game than Kobe ever did...yup! jordan has taken more shots in a single game than Kobe did in his 81 point performance! but fuck stats...it's not about that...take away the accolades, take away the stats, take away the rings, take away everything...on the court, kobe is neck-and-neck with jordan as far as skill, passion, talent, will, etc...there is nothing jordan could do that kobe couldn't...and i truly believe that kobe, with his skill and drive, woulda had 8 straight titles (or more) if he was in jordan's shoes.

Youre comparing Shannon Brown to Kobe. I didnt say Kobe was a backup role player. I said he was fortunate enough to end up on the Lakers. I dont think anyone out there would argue that if Kobe stayed a Hornet he would have 5 titles right now. lol. When I say Kobe was handed the Lakers I dont mean as in him being given the team. I mean he ended up with a team that has a winning tradition, ownership that will spend anything to win, an all star roster, eventually landing one of the best bigmen of all time, a city where free agents flock to cus of media attention...etc...etc. Kobe got the chance to sit back and grow into his role and try to mature as a player. Jordan and Lebron were just given the keys to bad teams and told..."Go make us great!". Kobe didnt have that kind of pressure coming into the league. He just had to keep things afloat. If he would have flopped (you said yourself he was low on the rotation)...it would hardly even have been remembered. If Lebron flopped, he would be rated the biggest bust in Basketball history. It worked out good for Kobe cus he needed that time to mature. He wouldnt have been ready to lead clearly. And I see youre getting emotional about the Robin thing lol. Like it or not, Kobe will ALWAYS be penalized for those first three championships. Its not that they take AWAY from his career obviously. Its that you cant compare those titles to titles won by Jordan, or any other star who completely lead their team. Even you yourself know that YOU value the last two Kobe titles far more than the Shaq titles...because Kobe was the leader. Thats just the way shit is. Robinson didnt win titles until Duncan got there. Like it or not, those titles would have meant more to Robinsons career had he done it WITHOUT Duncan. The same as Kobe winning those titles. They would have meant more if he did it WITHOUT Shaq.

Kobe woulda won titles anywhere...thats his personality with the combination of his ability. you think just any star player can be handed a franchise like the Lakers? you know how much work that takes? LOL. If LeBron was drafted to the Lakers and lost his first 7 seasons, he woulda been KICKED outta town...this aint no Cleveland. Kobe made it his goal to take over the franchise, and he did, ultimately being chosen by the franchise OVER Shaq, when Shaq was still playing 1st-team basketball and barely winding down his prime. And really,  Lakers made one of the fastest turnarounds in history after the '04-'05 expansion team catastrophe..and don't say "Lakers were given Gasol", every superstar needs great supporting players to win. either way, we were the best team in the league even before we acquired Gasol mid-season...Gasol without Kobe is no better than Antawn Jamison. But really, think about it from this perspective.. Scottie Pippen was amazing, that's something that people tend to forget..Scottie was the ultimate supporting player... probably more talented than almost anyone in the league today...and he was comfortable backing Jordan, even with his tremendous skill...Jordan and Pippen playing together back then would be like Kobe and LeBron playing together now...see what im sayin? you really can't discredit Kobe's ring when he was clearly a focal point of arguably the greatest 1-2 punch in NBA history. that would be like discrediting Kareem's rings cuz he had Magic or discrediting Jerry West's ring cuz he had Chamberlain. Kobe is that special...now, if we're talking about Tony Parker, or an aging Clyde Drexler...yes, their rings mean a lot less, because even though they were all-stars and sometimes even focal points, they were not playing at a hall-of-fame level...if you don't see that, then there must be something wrong witya.

You must not realize that this is a team sport man. Kobe wouldnt have won titles anywhere. Thats completely ridiculous. And not one person would agree with that. It takes a TON of things to go right to win a title. You have to have other good players around you. You have to have an organization that is focused on winning. You could put anyone on the Clippers, they will not win a title. Yes if Lebron was drafted by the Lakers and lost his first 7 seasons...thats something completely different. For one, a superstar rookie wouldnt be required to be the savior of LA....because they already have the rings. A rookie would just be required to fit in and hopefully turn into something great. I cant even imagine what would have happen with Kobe if he was drafted by the Cavs as a rookie and told to go turn the franchise around lol. Kobe looked lost at best as a rookie playing for the Lakers where he didnt have ANY pressure on him. And no, I dont hold the Lakers getting Gasol against Kobe. For one, Gasol is NOT Shaq in his prime. Kobe is not second to Gasol. Kobe IS the leader of THIS team. But dont try to downplay Gasol. Cus when the Lakers first got him you were already trying to convince people he was the best bigman in the game lol. You would rave on and on about what he did in Memphis. And now...because we are going back and forth, he is no better than Jamison. And yes, Scottie was an amazing complimentary player to Jordan. But if you think Pippen had the same impact for the Bulls that Shaq had for the Lakers three-peat....you have seriously lost your mind. It wouldnt be like Kobe and Lebron playing together lol There was no debate in the 90's over who was better.....Jordan or Pippen? lol. Im not saying Gasol is a better guy to have with you than Pippen. But there isnt one player/coach in the world who would rather have Pippen over Shaq in his prime on his team lol. So yes, Kobe can ALWAYS be penalized for those titles only in that they dont mean as much as a title where he was the leader. Again, he wasnt THE man on those teams. And you are talking about having two players who will end up being top 10 all time on the same team. If Kobe was as great as you think, they probably should have been more dominant then they were. Shit, ESPN doesnt even rate ANY of those three-peat Laker teams in the top 10 all time. The 1999 Spurs however are #8 

[7even]

^Did he really say that Pippen was as good as Shaq and that Jamison is as good as Gasol, or do you just say that for the effect?

[Chamillitary Click]

^Did he really say that Pippen was as good as Shaq and that Jamison is as good as Gasol, or do you just say that for the effect?

Would it honestly surprise you that much? lol.

[Sccit]

^Did he really say that Pippen was as good as Shaq and that Jamison is as good as Gasol, or do you just say that for the effect?

I never said Pippen was as good as Shaq...As for Jamison being as good as Gasol, of course he isn't...but that's because Gasol has elevated his game since playing with Kobe, by a whole lot, while Jamison got worse on the Cavs...What does that tell you? As a franchise player, they were on the same level, though. In fact, Jamison made two all-star teams before joining the Cavs, while Gasol only made one. Gasol has only been viewed as great since playing alongside Kobe. LeBron didn't do the same for Jamison.

[Sccit]

^we've went over this millions of times, you're right, but you've got shit pretty fuckin twisted in your head...the conclusion is that jordan was handed a franchise from day, coming off a successful college career, whereas kobe came out of high school and had to work his way to being as great as he is...that's why it's also argued by many that kobe has a stronger will, work ethic, and passion for the game than jordan did....but that's also why kobe will probably fall short in terms of stats and possibly accomplishments (if kobe wins over 6 titles, this will be argued).  kobe is more of a long-range shooter, so naturally, his field goal percentage will be lower...jordan also had all those losing years with chicago where he was simply a stat-machine, whereas when kobe was at that point in his career, he had to share offensive duties with shaq, which really took a lot of attention away from how good he really was and also deflated his stats...but the bottom line is, when it comes to what they can do on the court, there is absolutely NOTHING jordan coulda done that kobe couldn't...jordan, even with all the horrible teams he was on and exaggerated love/respect from league officiating, couldn't score 81 points in a single game...thats mostly because he never had the range kobe has (especially when he's in the zone). jordan is better short range, kobe is better long range...but when it comes to leading teams to the promise land, they are neck-and-neck...this is why i say if kobe leads the lakers to over 6 titles, he will definitely have surpassed jordan. pull up all the stats you want, cuz they wont prove shit...lebron has better stats than jordan, but is clearly nowhere near the player jordan was. stats do not determine shit...watch the players play, and see for yourself. kobe and jordan were in two different situations, so their stats, accomplishments, or accolades will never match...but as far as skills go, nobody in this league has ever been better than kobe. if he gets number 7, he is 24.....1 above jordan.

I wanna see who it is that says Kobe has a stronger will, passion, and work ethic than Jordan lol.

And yes, youre right...Jordan was forced to take a bad team and turn them into champs. Kobe was handed the Lakers lol. Kobe came into the ideal situation for a young kid who didnt know shit. If you wanna use the fact that Jordan was on a bad team to say thats why his stats were better, then you can also use the fact that Kobe was handed the Lakers as the reason why he has 5 titles. Remember Shaq was the man for three of them. You like to conveniently forget that. You lose all credibility when you say "in terms of leading a team to the promise land they are neck and neck" LOL!!!. Kobe has LEAD two teams to the promise land. Not that it isnt impressive, of course it is. But you are only making yourself look retarded by claiming that Kobe LEADING two teams to the title is the same as Jordan leading six. Duncan lead FOUR teams to the title, and it still isnt on Jordans level. Bottom line, Kobe wont accomplish anywhere NEAR what Jordan did...and he will have more seasons in the league to do it. He has the CHANCE to catch him in titles. But that isnt enough as Jordan was NEVER the second best player on his team. And that ONE game youre gonna use? lol Seriously? That ONE game. lol. I think Jordan could have scored 81. But who knows. As for that ONE game. Jordan had the statistically better game and shot a better percentage from the field. So to use the point TOTAL is kind of silly. It would be one thing if Kobe shot better from the field. But simply taking 9 more shots...eh.

many have said it in the past, and many will in the future...


LOL...so if the Shannon Brown was "handed" the Lakers the way Kobe was, he'd have 5 titles now? a player who came outa high school to a stacked team and had to play behind an all-star Eddie Jones...THATS WHAT KOBE WAS. he had to work his way up... what dont you get? you have way more chances of failing when you have to work into a rotation than when a team is just handed to you. that's just common sense. now that i think of it, most of what you say makes no fucking sense, man...really, MOST of it. you just said Kobe was handed the Lakers, yet it's the exact opposite of that. he was on that Lakers team, initially, as a 10th or 11th player in the rotation...Jordan was the one who was handed the Bulls. and you stay penalizing Kobe for his 1st three titles...honestlly, the fact that Kobe was 21-22-23 when he won those titles, as the 1st option in many of the games, might be more amazing than anything Jordan was capable of doing in the 1st portion of his career...why penalize Kobe's greatness because he had to play with Shaq? that makes no sense...Kobe was a captain of the team, was already a future hall-of-famer, was the one hitting the clutch shots and running the offense down the stretch...his stats were pretty much on par with Shaq's....HE IS NOT A ROBIN. GET IT? If he's a Robin, so was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and you KNOW that simply sounds fuckin stupid...As for the 81 points, you can say what if, what if...many people have gone on record to say Kobe is more skilled than Jordan offensively...Jordan actually attempted WAY MORE field goals than Kobe has throughout his career, and even shot more field goals in a single game than Kobe ever did...yup! jordan has taken more shots in a single game than Kobe did in his 81 point performance! but fuck stats...it's not about that...take away the accolades, take away the stats, take away the rings, take away everything...on the court, kobe is neck-and-neck with jordan as far as skill, passion, talent, will, etc...there is nothing jordan could do that kobe couldn't...and i truly believe that kobe, with his skill and drive, woulda had 8 straight titles (or more) if he was in jordan's shoes.

Youre comparing Shannon Brown to Kobe. I didnt say Kobe was a backup role player. I said he was fortunate enough to end up on the Lakers. I dont think anyone out there would argue that if Kobe stayed a Hornet he would have 5 titles right now. lol. When I say Kobe was handed the Lakers I dont mean as in him being given the team. I mean he ended up with a team that has a winning tradition, ownership that will spend anything to win, an all star roster, eventually landing one of the best bigmen of all time, a city where free agents flock to cus of media attention...etc...etc. Kobe got the chance to sit back and grow into his role and try to mature as a player. Jordan and Lebron were just given the keys to bad teams and told..."Go make us great!". Kobe didnt have that kind of pressure coming into the league. He just had to keep things afloat. If he would have flopped (you said yourself he was low on the rotation)...it would hardly even have been remembered. If Lebron flopped, he would be rated the biggest bust in Basketball history. It worked out good for Kobe cus he needed that time to mature. He wouldnt have been ready to lead clearly. And I see youre getting emotional about the Robin thing lol. Like it or not, Kobe will ALWAYS be penalized for those first three championships. Its not that they take AWAY from his career obviously. Its that you cant compare those titles to titles won by Jordan, or any other star who completely lead their team. Even you yourself know that YOU value the last two Kobe titles far more than the Shaq titles...because Kobe was the leader. Thats just the way shit is. Robinson didnt win titles until Duncan got there. Like it or not, those titles would have meant more to Robinsons career had he done it WITHOUT Duncan. The same as Kobe winning those titles. They would have meant more if he did it WITHOUT Shaq.

Kobe woulda won titles anywhere...thats his personality with the combination of his ability. you think just any star player can be handed a franchise like the Lakers? you know how much work that takes? LOL. If LeBron was drafted to the Lakers and lost his first 7 seasons, he woulda been KICKED outta town...this aint no Cleveland. Kobe made it his goal to take over the franchise, and he did, ultimately being chosen by the franchise OVER Shaq, when Shaq was still playing 1st-team basketball and barely winding down his prime. And really,  Lakers made one of the fastest turnarounds in history after the '04-'05 expansion team catastrophe..and don't say "Lakers were given Gasol", every superstar needs great supporting players to win. either way, we were the best team in the league even before we acquired Gasol mid-season...Gasol without Kobe is no better than Antawn Jamison. But really, think about it from this perspective.. Scottie Pippen was amazing, that's something that people tend to forget..Scottie was the ultimate supporting player... probably more talented than almost anyone in the league today...and he was comfortable backing Jordan, even with his tremendous skill...Jordan and Pippen playing together back then would be like Kobe and LeBron playing together now...see what im sayin? you really can't discredit Kobe's ring when he was clearly a focal point of arguably the greatest 1-2 punch in NBA history. that would be like discrediting Kareem's rings cuz he had Magic or discrediting Jerry West's ring cuz he had Chamberlain. Kobe is that special...now, if we're talking about Tony Parker, or an aging Clyde Drexler...yes, their rings mean a lot less, because even though they were all-stars and sometimes even focal points, they were not playing at a hall-of-fame level...if you don't see that, then there must be something wrong witya.

You must not realize that this is a team sport man. Kobe wouldnt have won titles anywhere. Thats completely ridiculous. And not one person would agree with that. It takes a TON of things to go right to win a title. You have to have other good players around you. You have to have an organization that is focused on winning. You could put anyone on the Clippers, they will not win a title. Yes if Lebron was drafted by the Lakers and lost his first 7 seasons...thats something completely different. For one, a superstar rookie wouldnt be required to be the savior of LA....because they already have the rings. A rookie would just be required to fit in and hopefully turn into something great. I cant even imagine what would have happen with Kobe if he was drafted by the Cavs as a rookie and told to go turn the franchise around lol. Kobe looked lost at best as a rookie playing for the Lakers where he didnt have ANY pressure on him. And no, I dont hold the Lakers getting Gasol against Kobe. For one, Gasol is NOT Shaq in his prime. Kobe is not second to Gasol. Kobe IS the leader of THIS team. But dont try to downplay Gasol. Cus when the Lakers first got him you were already trying to convince people he was the best bigman in the game lol. You would rave on and on about what he did in Memphis. And now...because we are going back and forth, he is no better than Jamison. And yes, Scottie was an amazing complimentary player to Jordan. But if you think Pippen had the same impact for the Bulls that Shaq had for the Lakers three-peat....you have seriously lost your mind. It wouldnt be like Kobe and Lebron playing together lol There was no debate in the 90's over who was better.....Jordan or Pippen? lol. Im not saying Gasol is a better guy to have with you than Pippen. But there isnt one player/coach in the world who would rather have Pippen over Shaq in his prime on his team lol. So yes, Kobe can ALWAYS be penalized for those titles only in that they dont mean as much as a title where he was the leader. Again, he wasnt THE man on those teams. And you are talking about having two players who will end up being top 10 all time on the same team. If Kobe was as great as you think, they probably should have been more dominant then they were. Shit, ESPN doesnt even rate ANY of those three-peat Laker teams in the top 10 all time. The 1999 Spurs however are #8 

Aside from the hype machine fanatics, there is no debate over whether Lebron is better than Kobe, man. LOL. what don't you get?...it's clear to the purests that Kobe is far, far ahead of Lebron right now, even in the beat-up, injured state that he's currently in. if kobe is comparable to jordan, lebron is comparable to dominique. but back to the point, Kobe WOULD have won titles anywhere...why do you think he's just some Carmelo Anthony or Dwyane Wade? or Vince Carter? he's not your every day superstar...with a capable team built around him, this guy was destined to win rings, no matter where he was...put him on New Orleans instead Chris Paul a couple years back with Tyson Chandler and David West. put him in Denver instead Melo with Chauncey Billups, Nene, and K-Mart. he would find a way, the dude was born to win, and that's why every Laker fan is so thankful that we found him, not the other way around...PeACe

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

^Did he really say that Pippen was as good as Shaq and that Jamison is as good as Gasol, or do you just say that for the effect?

He used Pippen as his argument for Jordan having help...just like Kobe had Shaq. Im assuming he (it was NIK) was comparing Kobe to Jordan in that little comparison...which would make Pippen, Shaq. Funny enough is that Pippen was the #2 guy....as was Kobe. So Kobe would be more like Pippen. But NIK hates when people say that lolol.

And yes, he said Gasol was no better than Jamison without Kobe.

"Gasol without Kobe is no better than Antawn Jamison"

However NIK was arguing Gasol as being the best, if not ONE of the best bigmen in the game the minute he found out he was coming to LA. He went on and on about how GREAT Gasol was with Memphis. He can argue one way or the other...thats fine. But a little consistency would be nice.

[theremedy360]

^ I don't think anyone's taking away from how good Gasol was prior to LA, he's just elevated his game since then. Jamison was also a great big man (not quite on Gasol's level but damn close) but he obviously just didn't fit in Cleveland for whatever reason.

[LooN3y]

^ I don't think anyone's taking away from how good Gasol was prior to LA, he's just elevated his game since then. Jamison was also a great big man (not quite on Gasol's level but damn close) but he obviously just didn't fit in Cleveland for whatever reason.

it was a late season trade, u couldnt expect much, jamison would of done much better as a 6th man running the offense with the bench than basically letting his talents go to waste and just watching lebron.