What can turn around this economy

[M Dogg™]

Looking into the last time we had an economy this bad, the president was Ronald Reagan, and Conservatives would like you to believe that in fact it was Reagan shirking government, cutting taxes and busting unions that saved the country. In reality, it didn't work out that way.

Ronald Reagan’s Good Rhetoric, Bad Policies, and Vile Followers

by Anthony Gregory

Most of the honest praise has focused on his rhetoric, much of which, I admit, was very appealing, and certainly more eloquent than what we’d expect to hear from the White House these days.

Reagan talked a good talk about shrinking the government, cutting taxes and spending. He gave sermons against Communism. He spoke well of liberty, individualism, and limited state power.

He condemned conscription. He brandished the Constitution. He espoused capitalism.

But what did he do?

As governor of California and president of the United States, he enacted policies that, in the main, greatly expanded the role and size of government.

As governor, he oversaw the largest tax increase in Californian history. Democratic Governor Jerry Brown cut back the tax rate when he came to office.

As president, Reagan expanded the federal government by about 90%.

Ah, but this was for defense, one might protest. And defense spending, according to the conventional wisdom, doesn’t count for some reason. In fact, defense spending is good for a "capitalist" economy, even though it was supposedly defense spending that brought down the Soviet economy. (I wonder if Reagan’s increases in California’s spending when he was governor can be attributed to a good-faith effort on his part to beat Oregon and Nevada in an arms race.)

All in all, Reagan allowed the welfare state to enlarge and the military budget to explode, causing monstrous budget deficits and government growth that dwarfs government growth under Clinton, even when Clinton had a Democratic Congress. Reagan’s tax cuts notwithstanding (some of which he reversed), the state grew fat and its growth will inevitably be financed through inflation or tax increases (unless the state defaults).

Reagan also bombed Libya, put the "war" in War on Drugs, allowed the continuation of Selective Service registration (despite his campaign promise to end it), helped the Khmer Rouge terrorize Thailand, imposed brutal trade sanctions on Nicaragua, funded the murderous brutal Contras, sold missiles to Iran, gave assistance to Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden, and lied to the American people.

That he did all these things in the name of "freedom," "capitalism," "small government," and "liberty" renders his legacy, in my opinion, all the more insidious. If bad Reaganesque policies continue to have a pass because of their superficial rhetorical selling points, American liberty will have suffered, not strengthened, because of him.

Many Americans say Reagan was a man of principle, regardless of what else we might think of him. And yet I’ve heard few examples of how he acted on his principles. More often, I hear excuses that he had a principled ideology but failed to follow through.

Still, his rhetoric probably did bring a fair number of people around to adopting some good values. And even some of his policies – such as pulling out of Lebanon after terrorists bombed the Marine base in Beirut, lifting oil price controls, continuing Carter’s deregulation – were quite admirable, especially by today’s standards.

By and large, however, Reagan’s words are used to advance the power of the state. Many in today’s War Party, previously critical of Reagan’s relative restraint, claim that Reagan would have approved of their pet war in Iraq, when we do not know one way or the other if that is true.

They say Reagan made them revere liberty, and that their reverence towards liberty leads them to revere war.

They say that his words about the Soviet Union are applicable today, and that what we face now is Cold War II.

They say that Clinton and even Bush the Second haven’t sufficiently followed Reagan’s policy of bloated military spending and foreign bellicosity.

They have in the past compared him to Thomas Jefferson, when all the two presidents had in common was that their words were better than their presidencies. (Even this is a weak comparison, seeing as how President Jefferson actually shrank the government.)

Today’s champions of neo-Reaganism invoke the legacy of a man who practiced libertarian rhetoric and carried out a predominately statist agenda, and they do it to advance an agenda even more statist than Reagan’s.

As much as I think certain misanthropes distort and twist Reaganism to their devious purposes, it is no surprise that the Gipper would have such a vile following. No symbol is more useful in the advocacy of empire than a respected leader who glorified freedom even as he trampled it.

I can’t speak of Reagan the man, whom I never knew. It seems clear, however, that freedom lovers who mourn his passing should likewise mourn his legacy, which, as it stands, is hardly a cause for celebration.


Anthony Gregory [send him mail] is a writer and musician who lives in Berkeley, California. He earned his bachelor’s degree in history at UC Berkeley, where he was president of the Cal Libertarians. He is an intern at the Independent Institute and has written for Rational Review, Strike the Root, the Libertarian Enterprise, and Antiwar.com. See his webpage for more articles and personal information.

[virtuoso]

You don't seem to get this do you? they have not just stolen say 10 trillion from the tax payer, they took that, to then leverage that by the tune of 100 times, to cover the many derivatives bets and to kick start a further "valueless boom". The rise of the derivatives bubble is exponential and when there is nothing more to steal from future tax payers everything will collapse. There is no manufacturing solution, the west can not compete with slave states under the current paradigm. Yet when everything does collapse you will have an incredible pool of slaves to carry out what does need to be carried out, therefore making standards of living plunge, except of course if you are one of the 1 percent who will bask in incredible wealth and explosion of asset prices.

The world is indeed being made into a level playing field, 99% as disposable slaves to a master group and if you don't like it, well tough shit, because they are cutting welfare to. Making money out of nothing, and robbing us all out of nothing, it is almost like magic isn't it. As for taxes, what a sick joke, your taxes willl go and are predominantly used to service the debt, the bailouts mean the bonds are owned by the very people you have "bailed" out. Owned with your own money so as for the likes of this article, the slaves are just being mocked. It is the reason why they are so blatant in every aspect of the society, because the slaves are too stupid to understand or are so demoralised they don't even care.

Aldous Huxley's address to UC Berkeley included the excerpt "people will learn to live and accept a standard of living which by any reasonable standard they shouldn't.

Obama is scum, he runs nothing, Cameron is scum he runs nothing, these politicians are just tools, they make as many sweet heart deals as they can and then they get the fuck out, the slaves can go and fuck themselves, sub human scum anyway who are oblivious to their own enslavement and even make excuses for it.

[Sparegeez]

What the fuck are you talking about. You speak on politics when you have no idea what any of this shit even means

[virtuoso]

What the fuck are you talking about. You speak on politics when you have no idea what any of this shit even means

And you sir just underlined my point unfortunately, what the fuck am i talking about? being robbed blind? derivatives? slave status, these are pretty basic things in the actual reality and yet you seem totally perplexed by it

And if you really don't get it, google con of the decade, then please do rebuke the points of it, but suggesinng "you are lying", or "you don't know what you are talking about", really doesn't cut it as anything other than ignorance and willful ignorance at that.

[Sikotic™]

Fuck Reaganomics.

[jeromechickenbone]

Poor MDogg, still falling for the BS paradigm of "dems vs. repubs".  Dude, when will you understand that they are NOT the ones who control shit?  They are all proxys / fronts for all the real players behind the scenes. 

You might as well blame fuckin Tom Cruise for the US's problems, he's the same level as Reagan and damn near every other politician on both sides for a long ass time.  They're all actors brah...shit you got Arnold in Cali, you think it's a coincidence who he's married to?  His political position was planned out LONG ago.  That fool isn't a political guru, he's a puppet.

If you insist on falling for the ploy that your tv tells you to and want to talk about Obama and Palin, at least look at who controls them - Henry "Heinz" Kissinger (you'd think after all these years he'd be able to better mask his german accent) and Zbignew Brezinski.  Those two are some of the major power players that are at least visible...but there's more even behind them who never show their face.

Or maybe check out the Rothchilds and the 12 other families that own central banks in all but like 6 countries IN THE WORLD.  These include Iran, North Korea, Cuba, and a few others that I can't remember off the dome right now.  You think it's a coincidence that those countries are the ones we are always fucking with?  It has shit to do w/ terrorism, oil, etc.  It's these families who want complete control of the money supply in the world.  Thats it.  It's not rocket science.

There's the famous Mayer Amschel Rothchild quote that sums it up nicely:
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws."

[The Overfiend]

I was watching a  tv program on Obama in the White House where they let the cameras in and he gives a candid interview and they compare how open he was compared to other Presidents like, say Nixon. I say Obama appears like a nice guy and all that. But in reality the power of the President is limited, of course its not negligible, but there is only so much you can do in light of the global economy and this global system of credit and debt.

[M Dogg™]

You don't seem to get this do you? they have not just stolen say 10 trillion from the tax payer, they took that, to then leverage that by the tune of 100 times, to cover the many derivatives bets and to kick start a further "valueless boom". The rise of the derivatives bubble is exponential and when there is nothing more to steal from future tax payers everything will collapse. There is no manufacturing solution, the west can not compete with slave states under the current paradigm. Yet when everything does collapse you will have an incredible pool of slaves to carry out what does need to be carried out, therefore making standards of living plunge, except of course if you are one of the 1 percent who will bask in incredible wealth and explosion of asset prices.

The world is indeed being made into a level playing field, 99% as disposable slaves to a master group and if you don't like it, well tough shit, because they are cutting welfare to. Making money out of nothing, and robbing us all out of nothing, it is almost like magic isn't it. As for taxes, what a sick joke, your taxes willl go and are predominantly used to service the debt, the bailouts mean the bonds are owned by the very people you have "bailed" out. Owned with your own money so as for the likes of this article, the slaves are just being mocked. It is the reason why they are so blatant in every aspect of the society, because the slaves are too stupid to understand or are so demoralised they don't even care.

Aldous Huxley's address to UC Berkeley included the excerpt "people will learn to live and accept a standard of living which by any reasonable standard they shouldn't.

Obama is scum, he runs nothing, Cameron is scum he runs nothing, these politicians are just tools, they make as many sweet heart deals as they can and then they get the fuck out, the slaves can go and fuck themselves, sub human scum anyway who are oblivious to their own enslavement and even make excuses for it.

Poor MDogg, still falling for the BS paradigm of "dems vs. repubs".  Dude, when will you understand that they are NOT the ones who control shit?  They are all proxys / fronts for all the real players behind the scenes. 

You might as well blame fuckin Tom Cruise for the US's problems, he's the same level as Reagan and damn near every other politician on both sides for a long ass time.  They're all actors brah...shit you got Arnold in Cali, you think it's a coincidence who he's married to?  His political position was planned out LONG ago.  That fool isn't a political guru, he's a puppet.

If you insist on falling for the ploy that your tv tells you to and want to talk about Obama and Palin, at least look at who controls them - Henry "Heinz" Kissinger (you'd think after all these years he'd be able to better mask his german accent) and Zbignew Brezinski.  Those two are some of the major power players that are at least visible...but there's more even behind them who never show their face.

Or maybe check out the Rothchilds and the 12 other families that own central banks in all but like 6 countries IN THE WORLD.  These include Iran, North Korea, Cuba, and a few others that I can't remember off the dome right now.  You think it's a coincidence that those countries are the ones we are always fucking with?  It has shit to do w/ terrorism, oil, etc.  It's these families who want complete control of the money supply in the world.  Thats it.  It's not rocket science.

There's the famous Mayer Amschel Rothchild quote that sums it up nicely:
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws."

LOL... you guys are too much. I saw studies that people that believe in this thing you believe in are more than likely to be uneducated. Is this true?

[virtuoso]

Instead of being a numb skull why don'y you start understanding what the derivatives market actually is? instead you did nothing, couldn't respond to the points, so instead you imply that I am somehow uneducated which speaks volumes for your inability to counter it and your conscious choice to deny it, well fine, if that's what makes you comfortable, but don't present something as if it is factual when you choose to ignore everything else.

Every day you are being mocked dude, the news channels you watch use official sources within wall street to "dig the dirt" I hav watched CNN before you are spoken to like you are a smply minded little child who needs captions and little pointers all the time, maybe some cartoons to like when they were explaining the credit crunch, god no wonder you are so bewildered by the responses.

However it's apt you should respond like that seeing as though I wrote...

"The slaves can go and fuck themselves, sub human scum anyway who are oblivious to their own enslavement and even make excuses for it" Of course that makes me a slave to but I don't try and delude myself that the reality changes because a fucking article told me so!

[Matty]

a financial oligarchy, this is nothing new bluds. just a lot more technology and 'clever' propaganda to support it these days. america is certainly the epicentre of this recent episode and the 'controllers' could care less about the serfs - sucked dry and just about fully tapped out. welcome to neofeudalism.

[IRAN iz Gangsta!]

real estate will bring it back if these banks stop the bullshit and let people buy and sell again

economy wont move until people can get something for their properties...most places are sitting rocket, not moving, that includes COMMERCIAL real estate.  When u talk about real estate people think of their homes, no its all of it.  Now days banks are not giving out loans easy so people are not buying and selling.  Businesses suffer cuz they cant move their property, not just their business but those owners have several properties around the country and they cant move none of it, therefore they cut back on their business spending

its just a domino effect, and i think real estate will solve it....instead of banks sitting on a foreclosed home for 2 years and going back and forth in auctions and fake bids, they can just lower the price of the homes, eat up the cost and lets move on.  They spend more money keeping the house cuz no one will buy it for let say $200K  but there are those who will buy it for $130K  so just sell the motherfucker. 

[Matty]

^^ that is a big part of the problem. but if real estate was left to reset to a real market price based on supply and demand instead of inflated levels being kept up through artificially low interest rates and government interference (tax credits, freddie & fannie), the largest financial institutions would be insolvent, many times over. they aren't foreclosing on people for long periods to desperately avoid having to mark these asset prices to market. loads more home owners with lines of equity credit would also be completely underwater, leading to a cascading series of defaults.

don't get me this wrong, this is actually a good thing and it needs to happen in one way or another so that house prices fall and bad debt gets cleaned out, but fiscal and monetary policy is explicitly geared toward perpetuating the financial status quo at all costs. these costs are gonna end up being epic, the underlying physical economy is getting weaker all the time, everyone will take a hit one way or another on housing prices and they will eventually fall in real terms anyway. america hasn't even got one of the worst housing bubbles right now (try the UK), but prices still need to fall considerably. and all so the oligarchy don't take a hit and the 'controllers' stay comfortably in the driving seat as we move toward more serious dislocation.

[BiggBoogaBiff]

Niggaz tryna preach Reaganomix... wow get tha fuck outta here with that shit.  Stop playin games

[jeromechickenbone]

You don't seem to get this do you? they have not just stolen say 10 trillion from the tax payer, they took that, to then leverage that by the tune of 100 times, to cover the many derivatives bets and to kick start a further "valueless boom". The rise of the derivatives bubble is exponential and when there is nothing more to steal from future tax payers everything will collapse. There is no manufacturing solution, the west can not compete with slave states under the current paradigm. Yet when everything does collapse you will have an incredible pool of slaves to carry out what does need to be carried out, therefore making standards of living plunge, except of course if you are one of the 1 percent who will bask in incredible wealth and explosion of asset prices.

The world is indeed being made into a level playing field, 99% as disposable slaves to a master group and if you don't like it, well tough shit, because they are cutting welfare to. Making money out of nothing, and robbing us all out of nothing, it is almost like magic isn't it. As for taxes, what a sick joke, your taxes willl go and are predominantly used to service the debt, the bailouts mean the bonds are owned by the very people you have "bailed" out. Owned with your own money so as for the likes of this article, the slaves are just being mocked. It is the reason why they are so blatant in every aspect of the society, because the slaves are too stupid to understand or are so demoralised they don't even care.

Aldous Huxley's address to UC Berkeley included the excerpt "people will learn to live and accept a standard of living which by any reasonable standard they shouldn't.

Obama is scum, he runs nothing, Cameron is scum he runs nothing, these politicians are just tools, they make as many sweet heart deals as they can and then they get the fuck out, the slaves can go and fuck themselves, sub human scum anyway who are oblivious to their own enslavement and even make excuses for it.

Poor MDogg, still falling for the BS paradigm of "dems vs. repubs".  Dude, when will you understand that they are NOT the ones who control shit?  They are all proxys / fronts for all the real players behind the scenes. 

You might as well blame fuckin Tom Cruise for the US's problems, he's the same level as Reagan and damn near every other politician on both sides for a long ass time.  They're all actors brah...shit you got Arnold in Cali, you think it's a coincidence who he's married to?  His political position was planned out LONG ago.  That fool isn't a political guru, he's a puppet.

If you insist on falling for the ploy that your tv tells you to and want to talk about Obama and Palin, at least look at who controls them - Henry "Heinz" Kissinger (you'd think after all these years he'd be able to better mask his german accent) and Zbignew Brezinski.  Those two are some of the major power players that are at least visible...but there's more even behind them who never show their face.

Or maybe check out the Rothchilds and the 12 other families that own central banks in all but like 6 countries IN THE WORLD.  These include Iran, North Korea, Cuba, and a few others that I can't remember off the dome right now.  You think it's a coincidence that those countries are the ones we are always fucking with?  It has shit to do w/ terrorism, oil, etc.  It's these families who want complete control of the money supply in the world.  Thats it.  It's not rocket science.

There's the famous Mayer Amschel Rothchild quote that sums it up nicely:
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws."

LOL... you guys are too much. I saw studies that people that believe in this thing you believe in are more than likely to be uneducated. Is this true?

Which part of my response are u referring to? As usual, u don't debate points, u ridicule and deflect from the topic that u started. 

Ur tactics reveal that not only are u not built for this discussion, but u already lost the debate.  And Lmao at asking about education. I'd put money on mine or virtuoso's IQ over yours any day. I have a bachelors degree in finance BTW, how bout u?

[M Dogg™]

You don't seem to get this do you? they have not just stolen say 10 trillion from the tax payer, they took that, to then leverage that by the tune of 100 times, to cover the many derivatives bets and to kick start a further "valueless boom". The rise of the derivatives bubble is exponential and when there is nothing more to steal from future tax payers everything will collapse. There is no manufacturing solution, the west can not compete with slave states under the current paradigm. Yet when everything does collapse you will have an incredible pool of slaves to carry out what does need to be carried out, therefore making standards of living plunge, except of course if you are one of the 1 percent who will bask in incredible wealth and explosion of asset prices.

The world is indeed being made into a level playing field, 99% as disposable slaves to a master group and if you don't like it, well tough shit, because they are cutting welfare to. Making money out of nothing, and robbing us all out of nothing, it is almost like magic isn't it. As for taxes, what a sick joke, your taxes willl go and are predominantly used to service the debt, the bailouts mean the bonds are owned by the very people you have "bailed" out. Owned with your own money so as for the likes of this article, the slaves are just being mocked. It is the reason why they are so blatant in every aspect of the society, because the slaves are too stupid to understand or are so demoralised they don't even care.

Aldous Huxley's address to UC Berkeley included the excerpt "people will learn to live and accept a standard of living which by any reasonable standard they shouldn't.

Obama is scum, he runs nothing, Cameron is scum he runs nothing, these politicians are just tools, they make as many sweet heart deals as they can and then they get the fuck out, the slaves can go and fuck themselves, sub human scum anyway who are oblivious to their own enslavement and even make excuses for it.

Poor MDogg, still falling for the BS paradigm of "dems vs. repubs".  Dude, when will you understand that they are NOT the ones who control shit?  They are all proxys / fronts for all the real players behind the scenes. 

You might as well blame fuckin Tom Cruise for the US's problems, he's the same level as Reagan and damn near every other politician on both sides for a long ass time.  They're all actors brah...shit you got Arnold in Cali, you think it's a coincidence who he's married to?  His political position was planned out LONG ago.  That fool isn't a political guru, he's a puppet.

If you insist on falling for the ploy that your tv tells you to and want to talk about Obama and Palin, at least look at who controls them - Henry "Heinz" Kissinger (you'd think after all these years he'd be able to better mask his german accent) and Zbignew Brezinski.  Those two are some of the major power players that are at least visible...but there's more even behind them who never show their face.

Or maybe check out the Rothchilds and the 12 other families that own central banks in all but like 6 countries IN THE WORLD.  These include Iran, North Korea, Cuba, and a few others that I can't remember off the dome right now.  You think it's a coincidence that those countries are the ones we are always fucking with?  It has shit to do w/ terrorism, oil, etc.  It's these families who want complete control of the money supply in the world.  Thats it.  It's not rocket science.

There's the famous Mayer Amschel Rothchild quote that sums it up nicely:
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws."

LOL... you guys are too much. I saw studies that people that believe in this thing you believe in are more than likely to be uneducated. Is this true?

Which part of my response are u referring to? As usual, u don't debate points, u ridicule and deflect from the topic that u started. 

Ur tactics reveal that not only are u not built for this discussion, but u already lost the debate.  And Lmao at asking about education. I'd put money on mine or virtuoso's IQ over yours any day. I have a bachelors degree in finance BTW, how bout u?

Starting my second year in a master's degree.