96-98 Chicago Bulls Appreciation Thread

[Hack Wilson - real]

LOl@sccit saying there is no definitive GOAT and that Jordan is merely top 10.

preach

[Sccit]

INice posts, MDogg.  And yes, Jordan was hard to coach, he was playing out of his mind but the Bulls still couldn't get past the Pistons until Jackson and Winter really got the triangle going and coached up all the role players.  And then later having to coach up the jordan-less Bulls to 55 wins and then later being able to allow dennis to be himself and having harmony with the three stars.

LOl@sccit saying there is no definitive GOAT and that Jordan is merely top 10.

Unlike Sccit, I'm not being biased because I got the one stat to back me up that you don't have.  In 1996 the Bulls broke the record for most wins in a season, and then blew through the playoffs and championship to make for the most historic season of all time.  Nough said.

The only claim you can make against the 72 win Bulls is the weaker competition argument but look how they dominated the Finals.  The Western Confrence was stacked in the mid 90's, Spurs, Rockets, Suns, Sonics, Jazz....those are 5 teams that all could've gotten a championship.

there is no definitive goat...jordan was simply the most shoved down our throats. stern was a marketing genius and he got u good... plus, all that went down in the 90s, and we know how u feel about that nostalgia-wise....if any1 deserves to be a definitive goat based on stats/career, it's kareem. but like i said, every1 in that top 10 is the best at what they do and are interchangeable as GOAT....the stars aligned for jordan though. he was in the perfect situation on those 90s bulls teams. i mean, like u already mentioned, the bulls almost went to the finals without jordan....you take kobe off the back-to-back laker champion teams, and they dont even make playoffs. but thats a whole nother story....the point is that, yea, 72 wins is excellent. but like i said, the nba was watered down by that time. jordan was being guarded by the iikes of craig ehlo, jeff hornacek, hersey hawkins, john starks, kevin johnson LOL.....those teams you named were good, not great. spurs of the mid-90s? LOL. and also like i said, they didnt dominate the finals, they always won in 6 games, and all the games were highly competitive....72 wins is still impressive, but i'd say what golden state is doin this year in a historically competitive western conference is more impressive than the bulls team winning 72 in a weak eastern conference. and we all know steph curry aint the goat....mdogg is also known to say the opposite of whatever i say. so if i say up, he'll say down. even if his team is the lakers, there has been instances where he rather argue against his own team just to go against whatever i say.. something about me subconsciously makes him feel like he needs to defeat me. but yea, showtime lakers are untouchable, and it's not even close. they woulda won all 82 games if they played in the 90s. 

[Sccit]

LOl@sccit saying there is no definitive GOAT and that Jordan is merely top 10.

preach

i thought u said bill russell was the goat?

[M Dogg™]

INice posts, MDogg.  And yes, Jordan was hard to coach, he was playing out of his mind but the Bulls still couldn't get past the Pistons until Jackson and Winter really got the triangle going and coached up all the role players.  And then later having to coach up the jordan-less Bulls to 55 wins and then later being able to allow dennis to be himself and having harmony with the three stars.

LOl@sccit saying there is no definitive GOAT and that Jordan is merely top 10.

Unlike Sccit, I'm not being biased because I got the one stat to back me up that you don't have.  In 1996 the Bulls broke the record for most wins in a season, and then blew through the playoffs and championship to make for the most historic season of all time.  Nough said.

The only claim you can make against the 72 win Bulls is the weaker competition argument but look how they dominated the Finals.  The Western Confrence was stacked in the mid 90's, Spurs, Rockets, Suns, Sonics, Jazz....those are 5 teams that all could've gotten a championship.

He forgets the east was stacked in the 90's. We have had a weak east for 15 years, and people forget the east was the dominate conference through the 80's and 90's. The 8th seed in the 1996 playoffs was the Heat, who had Mourning and Tim Hardaway. That was a damn good team and they won 42 games that year. The only reason they were the 8th seed is because of injury problems. The 7th seed was the Pistons and they won 46 games. Grant Hill at his absolute best. People were calling him the next great player in the game in 1996. I mean the east was so stacked in that era. In 1987, when the Lakers won the title, they beat the Denver Nuggets in the first round, the Nuggets were 37-45 and their leading scorer was Alex English, who is in the Hall of Fame, but their number 2 was Fat Lever. The path to the finals looked way different for both teams.

1987 Lakers
Denver Nuggets 37-45
Golden State Warriors 42-40
Seattle SuperSonics 39-43
then beat Boston 59-23, after Boston went through the 40-42 Michael Jordan Bulls, the 50-32 Milwaukee Bucks and the 52-30 Detroit Pistons.

1996 Bulls,
Miami Heat 42-40
New York Knicks 47-35 (coached by Pat Riley and lead by Patrick Ewing)
Orlando Magic 60-22
then beat Seattle who was 64-18

Let's face it, in the 80's, the west was a lot like the east is today. It just was. It was Houston, the Lakers and everyone else. Once Seattle upset Houston in 1987, it was all LA to take.

[Sccit]

INice posts, MDogg.  And yes, Jordan was hard to coach, he was playing out of his mind but the Bulls still couldn't get past the Pistons until Jackson and Winter really got the triangle going and coached up all the role players.  And then later having to coach up the jordan-less Bulls to 55 wins and then later being able to allow dennis to be himself and having harmony with the three stars.

LOl@sccit saying there is no definitive GOAT and that Jordan is merely top 10.

Unlike Sccit, I'm not being biased because I got the one stat to back me up that you don't have.  In 1996 the Bulls broke the record for most wins in a season, and then blew through the playoffs and championship to make for the most historic season of all time.  Nough said.

The only claim you can make against the 72 win Bulls is the weaker competition argument but look how they dominated the Finals.  The Western Confrence was stacked in the mid 90's, Spurs, Rockets, Suns, Sonics, Jazz....those are 5 teams that all could've gotten a championship.

He forgets the east was stacked in the 90's. We have had a weak east for 15 years, and people forget the east was the dominate conference through the 80's and 90's. The 8th seed in the 1996 playoffs was the Heat, who had Mourning and Tim Hardaway. That was a damn good team and they won 42 games that year. The only reason they were the 8th seed is because of injury problems. The 7th seed was the Pistons and they won 46 games. Grant Hill at his absolute best. People were calling him the next great player in the game in 1996. I mean the east was so stacked in that era. In 1987, when the Lakers won the title, they beat the Denver Nuggets in the first round, the Nuggets were 37-45 and their leading scorer was Alex English, who is in the Hall of Fame, but their number 2 was Fat Lever. The path to the finals looked way different for both teams.

1987 Lakers
Denver Nuggets 37-45
Golden State Warriors 42-40
Seattle SuperSonics 39-43
then beat Boston 59-23, after Boston went through the 40-42 Michael Jordan Bulls, the 50-32 Milwaukee Bucks and the 52-30 Detroit Pistons.

1996 Bulls,
Miami Heat 42-40
New York Knicks 47-35 (coached by Pat Riley and lead by Patrick Ewing)
Orlando Magic 60-22
then beat Seattle who was 64-18

Let's face it, in the 80's, the west was a lot like the east is today. It just was. It was Houston, the Lakers and everyone else. Once Seattle upset Houston in 1987, it was all LA to take.

lol more bullshit...the east was not "dominant" in the 90s. 42 win teams are great now? smh...west in the 80s had the rockets, mavs, nuggets, lakers, blazers. only reason the records were low was because the competition was so much stronger. but u put the sleepy floyd mavs in the 90s or the alex english nuggets in the 90s and theyre easily 50 win teams. then by 97, the eastern conference (and just the league in general) was so damn watered down, you had the bullets, magic (without shaq), hornets, pistons, hawks making the playoffs....all average teams at best. but furthermore, the competition at the top wasnt NEARLY as strong as it was in the 80s...bulls didnt have a top-notch rival like the lakers had the celtics. jazz, sonics, knicks, etc were good, not great .... if u really wanna sit here and act like u think the showtime lakers wouldnt beat any team ever, then ur simply more of a sccit hater than u are a laker fan. but thats nothing new with u...uv been a fairweather laker fan+a die hard sccit fan from the get. i see u.

[M Dogg™]

if u really wanna sit here and act like u think the showtime lakers wouldnt beat any team ever, then ur simply more of a sccit hater than u are a laker fan. but thats nothing new with u...uv been a fairweather laker fan+a die hard sccit fan from the get. i see u.

This is how I know I got you shook. You go personal.

For reals, as I've said, talent wise, roster spot 1-12, the Showtime Lakers are better than the Bulls. I'm using the 1987 Lakers BTW because that was the team with the best record. Magic>Kerr, Scott<Jordan, Worthy>Pippen (I SAID IT!), Green>Rodman, Kareem>Longley, Cooper/Rambis/Thompson>Harper/Kukoc/Wennington.

But I think in a 7 game series, Phil puts the Bulls over the Lakers. Phil can out coach Riley in his sleep, hell, he has out coached Riley in his sleep. What I saw Phil do for the Lakers in the 2000's, I am convinced that he'd fine a way to keep the Bulls focused enough to beat Showtime.

Let me say this again, PHIL JACKSON IS THE REASON THE BULLS WIN. HE'S THE REASON THE BULLS WON 171 GAMES IN TWO YEARS! My dude, that's 171 games in the NBA. I don't give a fuck what you think of the talent level, the Bulls are wrecking the fucking league. Think of that for a second, 171 GAMES! 2 years. Against Barkley, Hakeem, Shaq, Zo, Ewing, Reggie, Payton, Malone, Mutombo, Webber, Sabonis, Robinson, Rice and on and on. The NBA was WAY more talented that it is now. And it takes a hell of a lot to not slip up and lose. That is amazing focus to win 171 games and only lose 27 games. That's an .863 winning percentage. That's unheard of.

Talent wise, I agree, but Phil had that team so laser focused man, I don't think you even realize what that team accomplished. You just don't. Maybe you were too young and you can't understand. But it was something else. It's not me being a fair-weather fan, it's me being the die hard Laker fan praying that team doesn't win close to 69 games, then seeing them do it twice, and then seeing them beat future hall of fame players weekly on NBA on NBC. You might have been a little kid, but I remember it well.

[Sccit]

if u really wanna sit here and act like u think the showtime lakers wouldnt beat any team ever, then ur simply more of a sccit hater than u are a laker fan. but thats nothing new with u...uv been a fairweather laker fan+a die hard sccit fan from the get. i see u.

This is how I know I got you shook. You go personal.

For reals, as I've said, talent wise, roster spot 1-12, the Showtime Lakers are better than the Bulls. I'm using the 1987 Lakers BTW because that was the team with the best record. Magic>Kerr, Scott<Jordan, Worthy>Pippen (I SAID IT!), Green>Rodman, Kareem>Longley, Cooper/Rambis/Thompson>Harper/Kukoc/Wennington.

But I think in a 7 game series, Phil puts the Bulls over the Lakers. Phil can out coach Riley in his sleep, hell, he has out coached Riley in his sleep. What I saw Phil do for the Lakers in the 2000's, I am convinced that he'd fine a way to keep the Bulls focused enough to beat Showtime.

Let me say this again, PHIL JACKSON IS THE REASON THE BULLS WIN. HE'S THE REASON THE BULLS WON 171 GAMES IN TWO YEARS! My dude, that's 171 games in the NBA. I don't give a fuck what you think of the talent level, the Bulls are wrecking the fucking league. Think of that for a second, 171 GAMES! 2 years. Against Barkley, Hakeem, Shaq, Zo, Ewing, Reggie, Payton, Malone, Mutombo, Webber, Sabonis, Robinson, Rice and on and on. The NBA was WAY more talented that it is now. And it takes a hell of a lot to not slip up and lose. That is amazing focus to win 171 games and only lose 27 games. That's an .863 winning percentage. That's unheard of.

Talent wise, I agree, but Phil had that team so laser focused man, I don't think you even realize what that team accomplished. You just don't. Maybe you were too young and you can't understand. But it was something else. It's not me being a fair-weather fan, it's me being the die hard Laker fan praying that team doesn't win close to 69 games, then seeing them do it twice, and then seeing them beat future hall of fame players weekly on NBA on NBC. You might have been a little kid, but I remember it well.

i mean, the truth is the truth....ur not arguing because u think the 90s bulls were better, ur arguing for the sake of arguing. i'm arguing for the lakers because i'm a LAKER FAN and genuinely believe those 80s laker teams were the greatest assembly of talent on one squad. but your disdain for me goes way beyond your laker fandom, so you're guna sit here and argue til death, til you feel like you can take me out. even if it goes against ur team and even if it goes against conventional knowledge....if i said bulls were better, ud argue for the lakers. it's just who u are and it couldn't be any more obvious.


tell me this, who the fuck on the bulls would stop kareem on those laker squads? because u got michael cooper on mj, u got worthy vs pippen...who u got for magic? for scott? cmon, son. it's too fuckin easy, and your entire M.O is see through.


and if u acknowledge the laker roster is far superior, phil jackson is not Houdini, and pat riley is no slouch....phil jackson vs. pat riley was never fair, because those knicks teams were slightly above average and riley got them to overachieve. if riley was coaching the bulls and phil was coaching the knicks, riley would be the easy victor as well.


and like i said, what the warriors are doing right now in a historically difficult western conference is more impressive than what the bulls did in the regular season back in the 90s...and the nba was NOT more talented back then lmao. maybe players were more SKILLED, but as far as pure talent, athleticism, physical specimens, there was no lebrons or durants or kobes back then...it was mostly second rate stars. and the speed of the game was just much slower overall.


if u dont think the pat riley lakers were laser focused, then u just should end this here....and ur laker card has once again been revoked, btw...PeACe

[Hack Wilson - real]

LOl@sccit saying there is no definitive GOAT and that Jordan is merely top 10.

preach

i thought u said bill russell was the goat?

the way you tried to word it was that the back end of the top 10 is equal to MJ which is just laughable.


and Kobe at 11 isn't even close.

[Sccit]

LOl@sccit saying there is no definitive GOAT and that Jordan is merely top 10.

preach

i thought u said bill russell was the goat?

the way you tried to word it was that the back end of the top 10 is equal to MJ which is just laughable.


and Kobe at 11 isn't even close.

bill russell would be closer to kawhi leanord than to a top 10 player if he played in todays nba....do u know he was the 5th leading scorer on a championship team? daymn.


and kobe is most definitely interchangeable with mj....did the stars align for his career path to be as glorious as jordan's? no. but as a player, the biggest difference between kobe and jordan was range.

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

To put the Bulls 72 win season in perspective, it would be like an MLB team winning some 140 games!

...and Sccit, the most ridiculous thing you said in this thread was attributing Jordans greatness to Stern's marketing sense.  Jordan was the gold standard.  Bird called him God on the basketball court.  Have you heard anybody of Birds stature and integrity call Kobe God?

So it was Jordan who was such an impeccable character on and off the court that enabled Stern and Sports writers and marketers and everyone else around the game to be better and have greater success in their jobs and careers.  Jordan was a sports writers dream.

The best commercial ever was the "why we believe in heros" commercial that showed Montana (who also never failed in the championship like Lebron, Magic, Kobe) hitting Dwight Clark in the endzone and then Jordan who never ever failed to win on the biggest stage.  The Bulls never failed but the Lakers did fail at times in the championship.

[Hack Wilson - real]

lol @ nik debating the greatness of Bill Russell 

[Sccit]

To put the Bulls 72 win season in perspective, it would be like an MLB team winning some 140 games!

...and Sccit, the most ridiculous thing you said in this thread was attributing Jordans greatness to Stern's marketing sense.  Jordan was the gold standard.  Bird called him God on the basketball court.  Have you heard anybody of Birds stature and integrity call Kobe God?

So it was Jordan who was such an impeccable character on and off the court that enabled Stern and Sports writers and marketers and everyone else around the game to be better and have greater success in their jobs and careers.  Jordan was a sports writers dream.

The best commercial ever was the "why we believe in heros" commercial that showed Montana (who also never failed in the championship like Lebron, Magic, Kobe) hitting Dwight Clark in the endzone and then Jordan who never ever failed to win on the biggest stage.  The Bulls never failed but the Lakers did fail at times in the championship.

jordan failed plenty of times to even make the finals....and kobe was a western conference champion 7 times, which is 1 more than jordan. so failing in the eastern conference finals is actually worse than failing in the finals. but if you dont know that jordan came into the NBA at the PERFECT time, right when marketing individual players took off, and that stern made jordan like his son, then u just aint knowin bruh....was jordan great? no doubt. but there have been many greats in this game, and if they were drafted in 84 and handed a key to a franchise like the bulls with a coach like phil jackson and a robin like scottie pippen for the duration of their prime, then they too would be held to Godly stature by those who grew up in that era....Dennis Rodman says Magic was the GOAT. Brandon Jennings said earlier this year that Kobe was the GOAT. Michael Cooper said Larry Bird was tougher to defend than Michael Jordan...so if we go based on what players say, we'll have a lot of different answers. but the fact of the matter is, Jordan's stature was elevated by Nike, Gatorade, Space Jam, Wheaties, Stern making him untouchable on the court etc....and that sticks in the sheeples minds. but he is not individually better than any other NBA top-tier great, because as I said, they're all the best at what they do.

[M Dogg™]

i mean, the truth is the truth....ur not arguing because u think the 90s bulls were better, ur arguing for the sake of arguing. i'm arguing for the lakers because i'm a LAKER FAN and genuinely believe those 80s laker teams were the greatest assembly of talent on one squad. but your disdain for me goes way beyond your laker fandom, so you're guna sit here and argue til death, til you feel like you can take me out. even if it goes against ur team and even if it goes against conventional knowledge....if i said bulls were better, ud argue for the lakers. it's just who u are and it couldn't be any more obvious.


tell me this, who the fuck on the bulls would stop kareem on those laker squads? because u got michael cooper on mj, u got worthy vs pippen...who u got for magic? for scott? cmon, son. it's too fuckin easy, and your entire M.O is see through.


and if u acknowledge the laker roster is far superior, phil jackson is not Houdini, and pat riley is no slouch....phil jackson vs. pat riley was never fair, because those knicks teams were slightly above average and riley got them to overachieve. if riley was coaching the bulls and phil was coaching the knicks, riley would be the easy victor as well.


and like i said, what the warriors are doing right now in a historically difficult western conference is more impressive than what the bulls did in the regular season back in the 90s...and the nba was NOT more talented back then lmao. maybe players were more SKILLED, but as far as pure talent, athleticism, physical specimens, there was no lebrons or durants or kobes back then...it was mostly second rate stars. and the speed of the game was just much slower overall.


if u dont think the pat riley lakers were laser focused, then u just should end this here....and ur laker card has once again been revoked, btw...PeACe

I want you to understand something. I've been rooting for the Lakers long before you knew what the sport of basketball is. I have spent years watching the Lakers, and the era we are talking about, I didn't miss a single Laker game. I watched Primeticket for home games and KCAL 9 every road game. I want you to know this, because you think you are such a great Laker fan for arguing the wrong side all for your love of the Purple and Gold. I started to think why you'd be so blind to fact, and then it dawned on me, you never saw the 1995-1996 Bulls. You didn't see them in action.

Fact, Showtime was the greatest collection of talent ever assembled. Also fact, the 1995-1996 Chicago Bulls was the best team I ever saw, including any other Lakers teams and including the Showtime Lakers I saw. When I watched the Showtime Lakers, it looked so easy for them, yet the competition they played also wasn't as good as it was in the 90's. I saw both decades, and the 90's had greater competition. The 1996 Chicago Bulls as a team, fuck Jordan, were as a team dominated the NBA in a way never done before or since. Dominated the best teams on the way to the NBA Finals against the best. They did it better than any other team ever did, and you can't take that away from them.

Let's put it like this. when Jordan bought into a system, it was over for the NBA, because that meant he was willing to be coached. Against the 1987 Lakers, the 1996 Bulls would have found a way to win. That might be the biggest difference I ever saw between the Bulls and any other team. I saw Kobe try to will the Lakers back only to lose, I saw Duncan look defeated as he walked off the court and he knew the Spurs couldn't beat the Lakers, I saw LeBron choke, but I never saw Jordan ever look defeated, I never saw Jordan fail once he was able to win. The Bulls as a team were defined by being the best, and the Bulls would have found a way to win. Jordan would have cover Magic, Kerr on Scott, Pippen on Worthy, Longley on Green and Rodman on Kareem. The Bulls might have been the most unconventional team in terms of covering their position. But at the end of the day, Phil would find match ups to win. That's what he did best. He altered the triangle to fit Jordan. He would have found a way.

And let's not act like the Bulls and Lakers were that far apart in terms of talent. The Lakers won most the match ups, but it's not like Pippen is a scrub, or Rodman is a scrub, or Kerr is a scrub. But if the Bulls are that bad, maybe Jordan is the GOAT over Kobe, since he won more games and more titles with lesser talent?

jordan failed plenty of times to even make the finals....and kobe was a western conference champion 7 times, which is 1 more than jordan. so failing in the eastern conference finals is actually worse than failing in the finals. but if you dont know that jordan came into the NBA at the PERFECT time, right when marketing individual players took off, and that stern made jordan like his son, then u just aint knowin bruh....was jordan great? no doubt. but there have been many greats in this game, and if they were drafted in 84 and handed a key to a franchise like the bulls with a coach like phil jackson and a robin like scottie pippen for the duration of their prime, then they too would be held to Godly stature by those who grew up in that era....Dennis Rodman says Magic was the GOAT. Brandon Jennings said earlier this year that Kobe was the GOAT. Michael Cooper said Larry Bird was tougher to defend than Michael Jordan...so if we go based on what players say, we'll have a lot of different answers. but the fact of the matter is, Jordan's stature was elevated by Nike, Gatorade, Space Jam, Wheaties, Stern making him untouchable on the court etc....and that sticks in the sheeples minds. but he is not individually better than any other NBA top-tier great, because as I said, they're all the best at what they do.

I wouldn't argue Jordan as the GOAT, but I will say that you are trying to hard for this one.

[Hack Wilson - real]

Showtime Lakers were so scared of the 85-86 Celtics they lost to Houston to avoid playing them 

[M Dogg™]

Showtime Lakers were so scared of the 85-86 Celtics they lost to Houston to avoid playing them 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....