Yasser Arafat has passed away... or maybe not?

[Trauma-san]

^ I understand Lincoln's point of view perfectly clear... but I'm just a dumb hick from the Carolinas, what would I know.

[*Jamal*]

^^That's what I would have said.

Mauzip, I don't think you understand the Israel/Palestine issue very well considering all your posts I've read on it.

You support palestine, and were happy Bush won?  You make no sense.  I don't think you understand American politics well... based on all your posts I've read. 

When it comes to Israel/Palestine, it would be the same shit with Kerry in office.

[Don Rizzle]

I think it might open doors for peace in that area and that the next Palestian leader will be more open to negotiate.

u do realise its the isrtaelis who refuse to negotiate right? israel will only negotiate with themselves and america, a complete contradiction of the road map (eu/russia/palestine/america and egypt?)

yasser arafrat is the only person who is respected all accross palestine who can unite them his passing will make peace so much harder, israel is the real barrier to peace they occupy the whole of palestine and turned into a big prison for fucks sake and dumb fucks try and blaming palestinians for voilence

[Don Rizzle]

Sharon poisoned him

dont you remember the thread here that stated that Sharon wants to assassinate Arafat.. there you have it

you know that was the first thing that crossed my mind.

If he does die israel will refuse him to be burried in occupied east jerusalum i wonder how that will go down....

[Lincoln]

^^That's what I would have said.

Mauzip, I don't think you understand the Israel/Palestine issue very well considering all your posts I've read on it.

You support palestine, and were happy Bush won?  You make no sense.  I don't think you understand American politics well... based on all your posts I've read. 

I'm not happy Bush won, but I'd rather him over Kerry. They both have strong pro-Israeli views so that wouldn't tip the balance either way for me.

[acbaylove]

^^That's what I would have said.

Mauzip, I don't think you understand the Israel/Palestine issue very well considering all your posts I've read on it.

You support palestine, and were happy Bush won?  You make no sense.  I don't think you understand American politics well... based on all your posts I've read. 

I'm not happy Bush won, but I'd rather him over Kerry. They both have strong pro-Israeli views so that wouldn't tip the balance either way for me.

I disagree. Bush said he wants 2 NATIONS, Israel and Palestina. Dont understimate this, it's fundamental. He made a LOT of pressure on Sharon trying to convince him to make peace and quit building "the wall". Bush wasnt exactly "pro Israel". In fact everybody in the Middle East thinks that now he was been re-elected, it's easier for Israel and Palestina to try to make peace. And the prime minister of Palestina said he's happy Bush was been re-elected cause now he can try to talk with Sharon. You gotta understand that it's not easy to make peace for Sharon AND for the "next" Arafat. Sharon almost was kicked in his ass out of the Parliament cause he retired his troops from Gaza. He was saved by the opposition. And the "next" Arafat, like Arafat, still has to condamn terrorists and terroristic acts. And it's hard to do it, cause terrorirsts are scaring and important for the Palestinesi population. I mean they're making it a war for Allah, so it's hard to condamn terrorism (cause it's like a religious thing now), and it's the conditio sine qua non to make peace with Israel. That's the problem. Palestina has to condamn terrorism, and Sharon has to risk his ass in the Parliament. That's why the peace aint easy. Dont get played by the media and the propaganda. Sharon wants to make peace, but he cant. Cause Israeli doesnt want to make peace with Palestinesi. And the "next" Arafat doesnt want to make peace with Israel. Cause terrorists doesnt want to.

[Don Rizzle]

i disagree bush has been very leanient towards israel remember that "new realities on the ground" speach he made about israeli settlements which is something no other president has said and contradict international law which has said they are illegal from the start and he even approved new settlements in the west bank. He has also gone along the same route of vetoing anything critising israel in the UN which send the wrong message to the world, especially when america is so keen to use the UN to place sanctions on sudan etc (don't get me wrong i'm all for punishing the sudaneese goverment but the message he is giving is sudan is bad, the whole world can see israel is bad and they have created way more refugees but their our friends so thats let them be) Bush has also let israel carry out bloody opporations in palestine with minimal voice of restraint and not to mention allowing them to buldoze down thousands of homes farms and schools.

[acbaylove]

i disagree bush has been very leanient towards israel remember that "new realities on the ground" speach he made about israeli settlements which is something no other president has said and contradict international law which has said they are illegal from the start and he even approved new settlements in the west bank. He has also gone along the same route of vetoing anything critising israel in the UN which send the wrong message to the world, especially when america is so keen to use the UN to place sanctions on sudan etc (don't get me wrong i'm all for punishing the sudaneese goverment but the message he is giving is sudan is bad, the whole world can see israel is bad and they have created way more refugees but their our friends so thats let them be) Bush has also let israel carry out bloody opporations in palestine with minimal voice of restraint and not to mention allowing them to buldoze down thousands of homes farms and schools.

He didnt only buldoze down thousands of homes farm and schools. He sent back his troops from Gaza. And he almost lost the power in the Parliament because of that. It was the opposition to "save" his ass. The thing you have to understand is that Bush is making a war against TERRORISM. Now NONE in Palestina (i mean their leaders, from Arafat to the new ones) has EVER said that terrorism is wrong and that it's wrong to "use" it against Israel (or USA). NONE has said that to use kamikazees (even children) is wrong. None got the balls to say that a war of religion is unacceptable simply because they aint fighting a war about religion. NONE has ever recognized Israel as a Nation (actually 18 from 25 nations of the Arab Confederation doesnt even picture Israel in the maps). None has ever said they'll stop terrorism so they can make peace. And, the thing i add, NONE CONTROLS TERRORISM. Not even Arafat (that's why i dont give a fuck he's dead. Actually i'm happy he died for a natural reason, when someone dies like that, you cant do nothing but to say "RIP"). That's the reason why peace is not possible at the moment. And that's the reason why Bush cant support them or defend them. Cause until they'll make distance from terrorism, they'll be terrorists. And i agree with that and with Sharon/Bush on this one. You know what i mean? Plus remember Bush is the President of the USA, not of Israel. He's not responsable for what Sharon does. P.S. I'm not pro-Israel, i'm neutral in this shit. Plus i'm Italian, and Italy is well known for being "friend" of Palestina since forever. So..

[white Boy]

so is he dead or isnt he???

[Rampant]

hes in a coma and not doing well.

[Don Rizzle]

i disagree bush has been very leanient towards israel remember that "new realities on the ground" speach he made about israeli settlements which is something no other president has said and contradict international law which has said they are illegal from the start and he even approved new settlements in the west bank. He has also gone along the same route of vetoing anything critising israel in the UN which send the wrong message to the world, especially when america is so keen to use the UN to place sanctions on sudan etc (don't get me wrong i'm all for punishing the sudaneese goverment but the message he is giving is sudan is bad, the whole world can see israel is bad and they have created way more refugees but their our friends so thats let them be) Bush has also let israel carry out bloody opporations in palestine with minimal voice of restraint and not to mention allowing them to buldoze down thousands of homes farms and schools.

He didnt only buldoze down thousands of homes farm and schools. He sent back his troops from Gaza. And he almost lost the power in the Parliament because of that. It was the opposition to "save" his ass. The thing you have to understand is that Bush is making a war against TERRORISM. Now NONE in Palestina (i mean their leaders, from Arafat to the new ones) has EVER said that terrorism is wrong and that it's wrong to "use" it against Israel (or USA). NONE has said that to use kamikazees (even children) is wrong. None got the balls to say that a war of religion is unacceptable simply because they aint fighting a war about religion. NONE has ever recognized Israel as a Nation (actually 18 from 25 nations of the Arab Confederation doesnt even picture Israel in the maps). None has ever said they'll stop terrorism so they can make peace. And, the thing i add, NONE CONTROLS TERRORISM. Not even Arafat (that's why i dont give a fuck he's dead. Actually i'm happy he died for a natural reason, when someone dies like that, you cant do nothing but to say "RIP"). That's the reason why peace is not possible at the moment. And that's the reason why Bush cant support them or defend them. Cause until they'll make distance from terrorism, they'll be terrorists. And i agree with that and with Sharon/Bush on this one. You know what i mean? Plus remember Bush is the President of the USA, not of Israel. He's not responsable for what Sharon does. P.S. I'm not pro-Israel, i'm neutral in this shit. Plus i'm Italian, and Italy is well known for being "friend" of Palestina since forever. So..

don't make things up arafrat has condemned trerrorist attacks heres an extract from a news article on the bbc relating to the last one

Bomber's family condemn militants
 
 
The bomb was detonated in a shop in a busy Tel Aviv market
The mother of a teenage suicide bomber who blew himself up and killed three Israelis in Tel Aviv has criticised the militants who recruited him.
More than 30 others were wounded when 16-year-old Amer al-Fahr detonated about 5kg of explosives in a shop in the Israeli city's busy Carmel market.

The leftist Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine said one of its members had carried out the attack.

Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat was among those to condemn the bombing.
 

sharon has not sent back troops yet october was the bloodiest month in palestine in 4 years
heres what the british foreign secretary said back in october

Israel is failing in its duty to avoid innocent civilian casualties, UK Foreign Secretary Jack Straw has said.
Mr Straw said the Israeli Government were also failing to meet their legal obligation to ensure responses to terrorism were proportionate.

He was speaking as Israel widened a two-week operation in Gaza.

The minister said he recognised the operation was in response to Qassam rocket attacks but it had killed 115 Palestinians, including many children.

just because the the israeli right is against the the gazaa pullout doesn't mean sharon is some kind of hero he built the settlement there in the first place and he is now using the pull out as an excuse to block a palestinian state and hold onto the west bank. and why do u think the arab states don't recognise israel? cos it was never theirs to take in the first place! just because a book written 2000 years ago said said the land belongs to jews is an absolutely ludicrus reason to give them a country and look how they've abused their powers, my view has always been the jews should have been given part of germany. there will always be terroristic acts against israel until it gives up the land which it occupies they have no other way to fight the occupation, it all option is the for israel to take it but they don't want to give up their illegally seized land so there will never be peace. the humiliations, restrictions and huge civillian casualties against palestine only add fuel to the fire. when u talk about terrorism why don't u look at the stats which country has inflicted the most civllian casualties palestine has had 10 times more civillian deaths i call that state terror.

[acbaylove]

Man c'mon. Be realistic about it, Arafat aint condamned a damn thing. It's obvious that when you use a 16 years old and you send him to die that's a wrong thing, i dont need Arafat to say that. But there was been hundreds of kamikazee's till now, not 1. I've never ever seen Arafat condaming the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestina for using kamikazee's (exp. children). He has supported them, directly or indirectly. If you wanna sell me something different, then i've lived a whole different story than you. C'mon, Arafat is GUILTY. Like Sharon. Cause he's responsable for the death of all those kids and all those innocent Israelians. Cause he refused peace in 2000, and he wanna see Israel destroyed. So he sopport the war.

About the Palestina-Israel thing, i do agree with you, i mean Israelians did a wrong thing abusing their power and all, but that's another thing.

[Don Rizzle]

Wednesday, 8 May, 2002, 19:37 GMT 20:37 UK
Arafat orders end to 'terrorist' attacks

 
The Palestinian Authority condemned the attack

Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat has ordered his security forces to prevent "all terrorist operations" against Israelis after a suicide bomber killed 15 people and himself in an attack near Tel Aviv. 
 
Powell said the latest attack endangered the peace process
 
Mr Arafat condemned the attack as Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon flew back to Israel for an emergency cabinet meeting after cutting short a visit to the United States.

In Bethlehem, a BBC correspondent outside the besieged Church of the Nativity says the Israeli army seems to be preparing for at least some of those inside to come out.

But it is not yet clear what will happen to the 13 militants whom Israel describes as the most wanted, after Italy refused to receive them in exile.

The suicide bombing on Tuesday at a crowded pool club was the deadliest since Israel launched what it says was a campaign against Palestinian militants in the West Bank at the end of March.

Several hours after the Israeli leader left Washington, a second Palestinian tried to blow himself up at a junction near the northern Israeli city of Haifa.



I... give my order to the security forces to confront and prevent all terrorist operations against Israeli civilians from any Palestinian group
 
Yasser Arafat, Palestinian leader 

US Secretary of State Colin Powell, speaking after meetings with UK Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, said Tuesday night's suicide bombing endangered the peace process.

"We note with deep regret the terrorist incidents yesterday... which once again puts at risk the possibility of going forward," Mr Powell said. "We condemn them and ask all others to condemn them."

Amid growing expectations of Israeli reprisals, the Palestinian leader said he was ordering "the security forces to confront and prevent all terrorist operations against Israeli civilians from any Palestinian group".

He said he was committed to the US-led fight against terrorism and appealed to the international community to help his forces "implement my order".

Mr Arafat later appeared on Palestinian television and reiterated his call.

Rishon Letzion bombing

Police say the bomber walked into the Spiel club on the third floor of a building in the suburb of Rishon Letzion with a suitcase packed with nails and explosives.

More than 50 people were wounded, some seriously.

The Islamic militant group Hamas said it was behind the attack.

Sharon warning

Speaking to reporters before he left Washington, Mr Sharon blamed Mr Arafat for the attack.

The bombing, he said, was "proof of the true intentions of those who lead the Palestinian Authority".

The Israeli leader said he was returning to Israel with a heavy heart, full of rage, and vowed to continue the fight against militants.

 
"Israel will not surrender to blackmail... he who rises up to kill us, we will pre-empt it and kill him first," Mr Sharon told reporters following talks with US President George W Bush.

The Israeli leader convened an emergency cabinet meeting after landing at Ben Gurion Airport, to discuss Israel's response.

Reports from the West Bank say Israeli forces have moved into a village near Jericho and rounded up several hundred men.

Robot defuses bomber

On Wednesday morning, a Palestinian man tried to blow himself up next to two soldiers at a bus stop at Megiddo Junction, 20 kilometres (12 miles) south-east of Haifa.

The bomb went off only partially and only the bomber was hurt, Israel radio reported.

Police used a robot to pull the man away from the bus stop and to defuse the explosives on his body. He was then taken to Afula Hospital.

In Bethlehem, diplomatic and Israeli sources say a new deal has been struck to end the six-week siege.

The BBC's Claire Marshall, in Bethlehem, says it is understood that 26 of the wanted Palestinian militants will be taken straight to Gaza and the civilians will be freed.

The fate of the other 13 remains unclear. Negotiators on both sides had indicated that they would go to Italy, but the Italian foreign ministry rejected the plan.

Our correspondent says there is a lot of military activity around the church, with Israeli troops preparing barriers and re-erecting metal-detectors, apparently in preparation for at least some of those inside to come out.

[acbaylove]

So basically you agree with me on this one.

Let's face it: Arafat was a nobody. He controlled nothing NO MORE. [..] Arafat was not the leader he used to be, man. No more. He was just an old man who lost his political power.

And, the thing i add, NONE CONTROLS TERRORISM. Not even Arafat (that's why i dont give a fuck he's dead. Actually i'm happy he died for a natural reason, when someone dies like that, you cant do nothing but to say "RIP").

[Don Rizzle]

no he still had power he didn't like to deligate which is why his pms got very frustraighted
he also had the ear of the palestinian people there won't be anyone as influential as him for a long time

i agree arafat didn't contol terrorism the terrorist groups controls that, and they are fighting a very worthy cause but by unworthy means, but then israel does it too. peaceful preotest doesn't always work look at the what happenned to the Dalai Lama and Tibet china fucked them over royally they led a peaceful protest to the occupation and china murdered a million tibetians forced their leader into exile and imprisoned his monks. What does the international community do? instead of supporting tibetians and their methods they simply ignore them as they are afraid of angering the chineese last time the Dalai Lama was in London Tony Blair snubbed him is the actions someone who is so concerned about terrorism should take?