When and Why did RnB and Rock n Roll become to different genres?

[Shallow]

There is a definite difference between RnB and Soul. To be fair, if you look at most of the artists that are considered to be rnb, they are just black pop artists, i.e. Usher, B2K, 112, etc. Some would now call people like Bilal, and Anthony Hamiliton RnB, but they to me are Soul, as would Joss Stone or Alicia Keys be. And, going by that Soul and Rock N Roll are too seperate things. They started off as one, back with Little Richard, and that generation, and then split with the whole british invasion of rock n roll, and labels like Motown putting out loads of soul music. They both came from the same place, but are now two seperate entities.

As far as I know soul music basically RnB with Gospel elements. Ray Charles was a big part of it. A soul song is basicallly an RnB ballad. "My Girl" certainly shouldn't be considered soul, and if it is then most Elvis songs should be as well. I can't see how soul and rock ballads are so different. I mean what is Unchained Melody by the Righteous Brothers ? (featured in Ghost). Is that song so different than the Barry White stuff. Like Billy Joel said "It's still Rock n Roll to me". I'd include Reggae in that too, since it was heavily inspired by the 50s rock, as well as the calypso, etc. Go find out what kind of bands Bob Marley was in when he was younger, and see how he dressed.

Man, there is a difference, what does rhythm and blues actually describe? I wouldn't say that described soul music. Plus if we go by your line of thought that all music is rock n roll, then technically every single song is a hymn or tribel chant, as these were the first real forms of sung music, and I think if someone suggested that say Bob Dylan was RnB you'd find that stupid, yet you are quite happy to label Marvin Gaye rock n roll?

Bob Dylan takes American folk elements and and adds Rock and Roll to it. So you could say he isn't RnB but you could say he blends RnB with folk. Marvin Gaye's early songs aren't any different than Little Richard's music. Can I Get A Witness is the same type of song as Tutti Frutti. That is why Marvin Gaye is considered Rock n Roll. When the Beatles and Stones showed up anf brought a very different sound, someone decided to change the name of original rock n roll, and call it RnB again. I just don't get why. Metal and Punk are nothing like 60s rock but they still call it Rock. So why can't traditional rock and roll with a polished appearance, Motown, be called Rock n Roll too?

[On The Edge of Insanity]

There is a definite difference between RnB and Soul. To be fair, if you look at most of the artists that are considered to be rnb, they are just black pop artists, i.e. Usher, B2K, 112, etc. Some would now call people like Bilal, and Anthony Hamiliton RnB, but they to me are Soul, as would Joss Stone or Alicia Keys be. And, going by that Soul and Rock N Roll are too seperate things. They started off as one, back with Little Richard, and that generation, and then split with the whole british invasion of rock n roll, and labels like Motown putting out loads of soul music. They both came from the same place, but are now two seperate entities.

As far as I know soul music basically RnB with Gospel elements. Ray Charles was a big part of it. A soul song is basicallly an RnB ballad. "My Girl" certainly shouldn't be considered soul, and if it is then most Elvis songs should be as well. I can't see how soul and rock ballads are so different. I mean what is Unchained Melody by the Righteous Brothers ? (featured in Ghost). Is that song so different than the Barry White stuff. Like Billy Joel said "It's still Rock n Roll to me". I'd include Reggae in that too, since it was heavily inspired by the 50s rock, as well as the calypso, etc. Go find out what kind of bands Bob Marley was in when he was younger, and see how he dressed.

Man, there is a difference, what does rhythm and blues actually describe? I wouldn't say that described soul music. Plus if we go by your line of thought that all music is rock n roll, then technically every single song is a hymn or tribel chant, as these were the first real forms of sung music, and I think if someone suggested that say Bob Dylan was RnB you'd find that stupid, yet you are quite happy to label Marvin Gaye rock n roll?

Bob Dylan takes American folk elements and and adds Rock and Roll to it. So you could say he isn't RnB but you could say he blends RnB with folk. Marvin Gaye's early songs aren't any different than Little Richard's music. Can I Get A Witness is the same type of song as Tutti Frutti. That is why Marvin Gaye is considered Rock n Roll. When the Beatles and Stones showed up anf brought a very different sound, someone decided to change the name of original rock n roll, and call it RnB again. I just don't get why. Metal and Punk are nothing like 60s rock but they still call it Rock. So why can't traditional rock and roll with a polished appearance, Motown, be called Rock n Roll too?

I can see what you are saying in a way, but when the Stones, The Beatles etc became seen as the famous rock n rolls stars, guitars became synonymous with rock n roll, and that is where the split came. Several Motown artists, such as Marvin Gaye, started moving away from the labels successfull "polished rock n roll" sound, towards a more spritual soulful sound, and became something entirely different from what was originally rock n roll. Therefore a split formed between the two forms of music, as they evolved from what they had both come from into new different types of music, which is why you now see the split.

[Shallow]

There is a definite difference between RnB and Soul. To be fair, if you look at most of the artists that are considered to be rnb, they are just black pop artists, i.e. Usher, B2K, 112, etc. Some would now call people like Bilal, and Anthony Hamiliton RnB, but they to me are Soul, as would Joss Stone or Alicia Keys be. And, going by that Soul and Rock N Roll are too seperate things. They started off as one, back with Little Richard, and that generation, and then split with the whole british invasion of rock n roll, and labels like Motown putting out loads of soul music. They both came from the same place, but are now two seperate entities.

As far as I know soul music basically RnB with Gospel elements. Ray Charles was a big part of it. A soul song is basicallly an RnB ballad. "My Girl" certainly shouldn't be considered soul, and if it is then most Elvis songs should be as well. I can't see how soul and rock ballads are so different. I mean what is Unchained Melody by the Righteous Brothers ? (featured in Ghost). Is that song so different than the Barry White stuff. Like Billy Joel said "It's still Rock n Roll to me". I'd include Reggae in that too, since it was heavily inspired by the 50s rock, as well as the calypso, etc. Go find out what kind of bands Bob Marley was in when he was younger, and see how he dressed.

Man, there is a difference, what does rhythm and blues actually describe? I wouldn't say that described soul music. Plus if we go by your line of thought that all music is rock n roll, then technically every single song is a hymn or tribel chant, as these were the first real forms of sung music, and I think if someone suggested that say Bob Dylan was RnB you'd find that stupid, yet you are quite happy to label Marvin Gaye rock n roll?

Bob Dylan takes American folk elements and and adds Rock and Roll to it. So you could say he isn't RnB but you could say he blends RnB with folk. Marvin Gaye's early songs aren't any different than Little Richard's music. Can I Get A Witness is the same type of song as Tutti Frutti. That is why Marvin Gaye is considered Rock n Roll. When the Beatles and Stones showed up anf brought a very different sound, someone decided to change the name of original rock n roll, and call it RnB again. I just don't get why. Metal and Punk are nothing like 60s rock but they still call it Rock. So why can't traditional rock and roll with a polished appearance, Motown, be called Rock n Roll too?

I can see what you are saying in a way, but when the Stones, The Beatles etc became seen as the famous rock n rolls stars, guitars became synonymous with rock n roll, and that is where the split came. Several Motown artists, such as Marvin Gaye, started moving away from the labels successfull "polished rock n roll" sound, towards a more spritual soulful sound, and became something entirely different from what was originally rock n roll. Therefore a split formed between the two forms of music, as they evolved from what they had both come from into new different types of music, which is why you now see the split.

I feel where you're coming from, but Chuck Berry was very guitar driven, well before the Stones and Beatles showed up. Elvis was almost never guitar driven, yet he was still considered Rock n Roll. Listen to Elvis's version of In The Ghetto (by Mac Davis), and tell me anything Marvin Gaye did was more "soul" than that. What I'm trying to say is that if Marvin was white, he'd be another Roy Orbison, or Joe Cocker, but since he's black they give him the title RnB or Soul. I can't think of one white guy from that era who is considered "soul".