The Myth Of White Superiority

[NobodyButMe]

It's clear from the replies to this thread that racism is still alive and well.  Many of you are still desperately clinging to your racist mentalities of white superiority. 

dude, just because someone doesn't agree with your point doesn't make them racist. you're trying to get something out of us that we're not going to say because we think it's bullshit.

the point of the professor is valid, but it's valid across all races in all countries and not exclusive to whites alone. i'm sorry, but there isn't any one race that you can sit here and say is perfect.

[ecrazy]

How's your pop, infinite? I think that's what this post is ultimately about. 

Thank you Dr. Phil! You have just erased a 600 year history of racist imperialism by reminding me that my father drank alcohol.

Um, am i getting this clear or are you calling him a racist because he said your father drank alcohol?? And Your White right? and this is towards you, so a white guy is being racist to another white guy who wishes he was black? right?....

[nibs]

Mullah Nasrudin:
"Whites, adhering to the value system of the West, place a premium on conquering people and developing objects.  While that way of thinking has led to the many technological advancements that have made the United States the most powerful nation in the world, it has virtually ignored advancements in the human development and created a powerful country of dangerous, underdeveloped, primitive human beings."

well, i don't see why he singled out "whites" and not more specifically "western values" or "europeans".  other than that i think his statement is 100% on point.

The Myth Of White Superiority

i'd like to point out that this really depends on how you define "superiority".  you're argument is almost untenable with individuals (like those among us) that are completely immersed in western values to begin with.

Shallow

let's pull out some of your ideas and put things into some perspective.

As opposed to the East which has been home Muslim dictators that kill entire race's of people because they feel like it

We also have parts of India that promote honor over morailty which leads to young men killing their own grandmothers

Let's not forget communist Russia <snip> And of course beautiful main land China

your examples are pretty much on point, but your thinking is flawed.  western culture has been pervasive throughout the world in the past two centuries.  you are talking about communist russia and communist china...communism itself is a western social & economic system, which is designed specifically to address and control the production of "objects" and distribution of wealth and power.   your examples of russia and china are actually examples of western values corrupting and ruining cultures and peoples.  communism in both russia and china have acted to undermine the very tenets that akbar holds up as important, and that is a western philosophy that has spread.

similarly, muslim dictators were propped up and put in place by the most part from the west; or assumed power after overthrowing puppet govts that western nations setup in the region.  such is the case in iran, iraq, syria and elsewhere.  this is actually another example of the west's destructive influence around the world.
your examples strengthen akbar's argument.

now, i certainly don't think akbar was trying to say that every non western culture was roses; they clearly weren't and aren't.  what akbar is trying to say is that everything the west has accomplished is borderline meaningless, and has done more harm than good to the human condition.
akbar's point about human development and the problems with the west are, in my opinion, somewhat misdirected.  conquering nations isn't particularly useful; developing objects is.  the problem however isn't with the focus on developing of objects, but the lack of focus on human and spiritual development.  his argument should be more focused on the values and the culture; but the development of objects itself isn't a problem and is actually pretty useful in many contexts.

[Shallow]

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So when Saddam killed off al the Kurds, it was the US's fault? Or when Turkey killed 2 million Armenians in a Holocaust it was the West way of thinking that was reason? When a kid in India kills his recently raped sister because she defamed the family by getting raped, I guess that's somehow some white guy's fault too.

The fault lies in the human mind and the stupidity that plagues. It's not a white/black or east/west thing. Even great thinkers like Confuscious felt women were not good enough to walk on the same side of the road, and this was well before western involvement. Egypt had slaves to build their great pyramids. It goes much further back than western society taking over the world.


Also, communism was never prominant in western culture. Russia was quite diffrent from the rest of Europe. It's like calling a latino the same as a black creek native because some look the same.

[Trauma-san]

Kill Whitey!

[nibs]

Shallow:
So when Saddam killed off al the Kurds, it was the US's fault?

saddam certainly did not kill off all the kurds.  saddam had kurds in his administration.  additionally, saddam did not even gas the kurds.  the iranians gassed the kurds when they gassed a town during a battle and then blamed that on saddam.

second, i never suggested that the u.s. was responsible for saddam's actions.  iraq is a problem that britain is more responsible for.

Or when Turkey killed 2 million Armenians in a Holocaust it was the West way of thinking that was reason?

you are creating strawman arguments to knock down.  neither i, nor akbar, ever suggested that everything non-western was perfect.  i specifically stated in my last post:
now, i certainly don't think akbar was trying to say that every non western culture was roses; they clearly weren't and aren't.

your examples are inconsistent with my position, and are misrepresenting my position.  you are not even adressing the underlying argument here.  the argument is that western values and culture are of little utility and have accomlished very little.  western culture and values have been a destructive influence globally.

you have not even attempted to argue that point, your response has been solely that "other nations have also done ill".   re-read the original quote.  akbar is not saying "every culture other than european culture and value is good".  that is not his position, that is not my position.  what akbar is saying is that european culture is useless and has stifled human [and spiritual] development 

The fault lies in the human mind and the stupidity that plagues.

fault lies with european culture and values.  that's the point of the argument akbar was making.  fault may lie elsewhere, noone is disagreeing there.

Even great thinkers like Confuscious felt women were not good enough to walk on the same side of the road

the equality of women is a separate issue from human development.  you are looking at this problem incorrectly.  this is not an issue of wrongs, it's an issue of rights.  akbar is pointing out that european culture and values have not promoted the right type of development.  it's not my intent to defend confucius (as he is another of your strawmen); but you shouldn't question "what has confucius done wrong", but "has cunfucius done the right things in terms of promoting human development that european culture has failed to do.  and the answer there is going to be yes.  and with the egyptians that you also mentioned, again the answer there is yes.

Egypt had slaves to build their great pyramids.

we can argue about how egyptian treatment of slaves was nowhere near as abhorrant as the european slavery as demonstrated in the u.s. for example.  how those individuals were oft assimilated into the egyptian society and often given full rights and such after a period.  egypt doesn't have the track record of segregation as the u.s. does.  but this isn't an argument about "the greatest evils", which with american slavery, hitler and the holocaust, the nuking of civilian cities hiroshima and nagasaki....are going to be european as well...

this is more a question of culture and values.  and the ancient egyptian culture was certainly more spiritual and promoted human development to an extent unparalleled in western culture. 

Also, communism was never prominant in western culture.

it's a western philosophy.  capitalism  is another western philosophy that has many of the same flaws in the context of this argument.

Russia was quite diffrent from the rest of Europe.

eastern russia is often considered a part of europe.  communism didn't start in russia anyway so i'm not sure why you are arguing that.

i'm not sure why you are trying to redefine this argument to some sort of comparison of wrongs and evils, rather than either defending what akbar is calling flaws in western culture and values, or attacking the actual attributes of civilization that akbar is praising.  you've done neither.  akbar never said "everything non european is perfect" so i'm not sure why you are trying to make that argument.  it's an irrelevant argument.

[Shallow]

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Look man, my argument was never with the original quote that started this post. It was with Infinite and his constant attempts to make white westerner's seem like the root of all evil. My post was only written to show that evil exists outside the west, and predates western influence. As for the quote itself; I think Akbar is generalizing way too much, and in some cases is just plain wrong. Slavery was not introduced with the western way of live. Cruelty also comes long before western development.

Do western values and culture prove useless when it comes to progressing humanity? I don't think so personally. Freedom of speech, religion, and healthcare (in some countries),  I think is a great accomplishment. Democracy, even with it's faults is far better than monarchy, or dictatorship, in my opinion. Death penatlies have been abolished in many of the western countries. Morality before culture is greatly stressed.

I live in Canada and I can't imagine living under better circumstances in any other country else currently on this planet. Here you are free to preach what you like, so long as it doesn't incite violence or hate. You are allowed to choose what you believe in and are protected by law to believe in it. There are many different lifestyles and cultures you can be a part of. It isn't all 9 to 5 office work that leads to lesser developed countries being milked dry. If you wanted to live off the land and in the wilderness, there'd be few people looking for you and forcing you to get back in line. Obviously we are far from perfect but I find it hard to believe that humanity was far better off before the west began conquering. Moslty because I don't belive that Greece was the first nation to expand, and ancient Greece is the beginning of Western Development in most historian's minds. If you know of one before then feel free to share.

[Just Another Sunny day in California]

Many would argue that Mexico really didn't lose the Mexican-American War because We (mexicans) have taken back much of our land back as you can see

This is off subject, but you know your signature is actually a Rakim quote that 2pac bit off of.  Not out of disrespect, but as a tribute to Rakim.

It's from Pac's song "Got My Mind Made Up" and i've heard of more people who have also use that line, Run DMC used it before so what's your point?

[Thirteen]

Kill Whitey!

Wannabe Black Power

[ecrazy]

Kill Whitey!

Wannabe Black Power

No, Thats Infinite

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

Um, am i getting this clear or are you calling him a racist because he said your father drank alcohol?? And Your White right? and this is towards you, so a white guy is being racist to another white guy who wishes he was black? right?....

No, that's not it at all, Trauma is a psychology major, and he thinks that US imperialism is something I imagined in my mind because I was angry over my fathers drinking problem.

[Fuck You, Pay Me]

In Kazakhstan the gypsies and the jews make problems.

[AndrE16686]

You are a white muslim. Good for you. I disagree tho, what about the renaissance, the enlightenment, democracy, Christianity and the herb smokin 70s? The West has at points led mankind in human development. What you are saying is a crude over simplification. The problems with the West are problems of the human condition and not confined to Western thinking. Can you really say that Islam currently is a beacon of human development? 

[Mindless Minority]

Yup, exactly.  The two oceans help tremendously, plus having urgh... basically 'pacifist' neighbors who would never try to invade us or anything all this time helped.  Well I guess we weren't that peaceful with Mexico since we basically stole half their country, but besides that Canada hasn't given us any trouble.  Mexico's gonna kill us from within, though, which I have to applaud, since it's pretty smart. 

Inf, how's your daddy's drinking?  He smacked your mom up lately?

I almost missed this post when I scrolled down.  Trauma is a perfect example of a white man who is underdeveloped as a human being.  I post a social commentary by a history professor from a prestigious university, and the mere thought of it causes Trauma to lash out at me in such an unscrupulous manner, that he questions whether my dad has gotten drunk and smacked up my mother lately.  This is a clear example of the terrible state of the human condition inside America.  Only a beer-guzzling, confederate flag waving, mullet wearing, Axle Rose listenin', redneck like Trauma could come up with a statement like that.

Trauma, I'm going to respond to your ignorance with intellect.  It is clear that you think hating me will improve your condition and make you feel better about your low position on the human scale.  But there is a better solution for this.  I'm going to give you a little advice.  This comes from an Islamic teaching.  If you fear that you are becoming envious of other people, then it will be beneficial for you to spend some time with people who are suffering and in a worse condition than you are in yourself.  Give service to them.  Maybe being around them will improve the concept you have of yourself.  It will also serve another purpose and it may relieve you of some of your arrogance.

Talk about taking the bait....

[AndrE16686]

In Kazakhstan the gypsies and the jews make problems.

LOL!