NINTENDO UNVEILS REVOLUTION CONTROLLER

[Shallow]

Just so we're clear; are you saying that the Revolution will come with programming that allows the user to program his or her own games?

yeah thats what someone told me they'd heard... its been on a lot of peoples wishlists for years

It is very hard for the average fan (or programmer) to program and animate a 3d game and make it look and play good. Unless Nintendo is going to use a simple pre-programmed video game maker with the system I can see it being more frustrating than fun.

[Don Seer]

for you maybe.. but for people that really want to learn to make games or whatever this could be brillant.

your attitude is whats wrong with the games industry today.

who says games need to be 3D? a great game doesnt always have the best graphics. i've played some wack ass looking games that were amazing fun.

back in the day for systems like the amiga there used to be many 'easy' things that'd help people make games.. like AMOS and SEUCK.. along with "proper" languages.

the thing is.. nintendo could b ecreating a chance for people that never had them.. like people did back in the day. there is still a greater thrill about controlling whats on your TV over whats on a monitor. PC's arent home games machines like a console no matter what they do it seems.

think of it like this... open source cross platform projects that have been around for years, things like MAME and Linux will be easily portable to revolution if they've done this. along with things like media centre stuff..

i look at it like this.. if people went to the effort to hack xbox's and put linux on them, and make their own games and port MAME and make xbox media centre.. imagine what they'll do with something that doesnt need so much hassle to access the TV?

the main argument against homebrew development from the likes of Sony/M$ is that it will mean people have the ability to run unsigned code on their console.. that means they _may_ find a way to make any commercial game 'look' like its a homebrew game.. and allow copied versions to run.  this same reason is why consoles often use 'new' or altered versions of existing media.


anyways.. i was just told this by a guy at work.. it seems there was a rumour about this back in may, and from what i can tell it may not be true.

[Shallow]

for you maybe.. but for people that really want to learn to make games or whatever this could be brillant.

your attitude is whats wrong with the games industry today.

who says games need to be 3D? a great game doesnt always have the best graphics. i've played some wack ass looking games that were amazing fun.

back in the day for systems like the amiga there used to be many 'easy' things that'd help people make games.. like AMOS and SEUCK.. along with "proper" languages.

the thing is.. nintendo could b ecreating a chance for people that never had them.. like people did back in the day. there is still a greater thrill about controlling whats on your TV over whats on a monitor. PC's arent home games machines like a console no matter what they do it seems.

think of it like this... open source cross platform projects that have been around for years, things like MAME and Linux will be easily portable to revolution if they've done this. along with things like media centre stuff..

i look at it like this.. if people went to the effort to hack xbox's and put linux on them, and make their own games and port MAME and make xbox media centre.. imagine what they'll do with something that doesnt need so much hassle to access the TV?

the main argument against homebrew development from the likes of Sony/M$ is that it will mean people have the ability to run unsigned code on their console.. that means they _may_ find a way to make any commercial game 'look' like its a homebrew game.. and allow copied versions to run.  this same reason is why consoles often use 'new' or altered versions of existing media.


anyways.. i was just told this by a guy at work.. it seems there was a rumour about this back in may, and from what i can tell it may not be true.

I'm not looking at this from personal standpoint. I'm looking at it from a business standpoint. What's ben Nintendo's key demographic the past 5 years? Young children. Getting young children into programming code isn't exactly easy. Another thing is the american gamer. The american gamer reflects the american way of of life; bigger, faster, better. Like I said with GTA and GTA 2. It didn't take off until GTA 3. Even though the game was more or less the same except with a graphics improvement. People today want the new best things in the 3D gaming experience, not the old 2D side scrolling stuff. Even personally, I'd rather get an emulator and play the old games by the pros and play some new ones by amateurs. I remember watching an interview by the head of Shiny Ent. and he was talking about how Europe is a lot more about making games rather than playing them, and it's not like that anywhere else. If need to focus on cutting edge software and a whole lotta games. Making games may be fun for you, and like I said it may become a great cult system, but realistically it won't mean a thing to the average gamer. Compare the sales of something like FF7 to the sales of RPG Maker.

Saying a system that lets you make your own games, whether it's a rumour or not, will make a dent in Sony's business is like saying camcorders with movie editing techniques are going to make a dent in Hollywood's business. People want to play the best games from the best game makers, just like people want to watch the best movies from the best movie makers. It may be fun to do it yourself and may help you but help Nintendo right now.


1) I'm not that familiar with hte X Box. How many home made games reached the main X Box market ans what are they? and what do you mean by access the TV?

2) I'm not sure what you're getting at when you say make commercial games look homebrew.

[Trauma-san]

In my opinion, I doubt it's true.  I read something, in an interview, that led me to believe that Nintendo will be working with smaller companies with some sort of templates, if that's possible, that will reduce some of the start up costs of developing games (they're saying around 50%).  I didn't read anything that led me to believe they would be releasing homebrew friendly software.  

Ultimately, the move they're making isn't to satiate fans who want to do their own games, it's to please third-party developers, whom Nintendo has had a rocky road with over the last several years.  The main reason Nintendo is in 3rd place right now is because they didn't make it easy for third party developers to thrive on their system.  Their first party titles are head and shoulders above the other two companies games, but that's not enough to win the battle anymore.

So now they're making it cheaper to make games for the revolution, they're saying you'll be able to make two or three revolution games for the price it would take to make 1 360 game or ps3 game.  I think it's an effective strategy that will probably help them out tremendously.  

I think the company with the most to lose this time around is Sony.  I don't see the PS3 being the #1 console, that will probably belong to X-box, and Nintendo may or may not regain the '2nd' spot.  The Gamecube has been outperforming the X-box in sales for nearly a year now, although in terms of overall sales it hasn't caught up.  

Shallow; you're basically a pessimist.  It comes across in all of your conversations. 

"Make it look like homebrew" means that if Nintendo allows you to make a homebrew game for their system, then you could just copy "Super Mario Bros Revolution" or whatever onto a disc, hack it with a small code that makes it look like an original, homebrew creation, and run pirated software on the system.  The revolution, to be able to play homebrew games, would have to be able to play pirated software. 

[Shallow]

In my opinion, I doubt it's true.  I read something, in an interview, that led me to believe that Nintendo will be working with smaller companies with some sort of templates, if that's possible, that will reduce some of the start up costs of developing games (they're saying around 50%).  I didn't read anything that led me to believe they would be releasing homebrew friendly software.  

Ultimately, the move they're making isn't to satiate fans who want to do their own games, it's to please third-party developers, whom Nintendo has had a rocky road with over the last several years.  The main reason Nintendo is in 3rd place right now is because they didn't make it easy for third party developers to thrive on their system.  Their first party titles are head and shoulders above the other two companies games, but that's not enough to win the battle anymore.

So now they're making it cheaper to make games for the revolution, they're saying you'll be able to make two or three revolution games for the price it would take to make 1 360 game or ps3 game.  I think it's an effective strategy that will probably help them out tremendously.  

I think the company with the most to lose this time around is Sony.  I don't see the PS3 being the #1 console, that will probably belong to X-box, and Nintendo may or may not regain the '2nd' spot.  The Gamecube has been outperforming the X-box in sales for nearly a year now, although in terms of overall sales it hasn't caught up.  

Shallow; you're basically a pessimist.  It comes across in all of your conversations. 

"Make it look like homebrew" means that if Nintendo allows you to make a homebrew game for their system, then you could just copy "Super Mario Bros Revolution" or whatever onto a disc, hack it with a small code that makes it look like an original, homebrew creation, and run pirated software on the system.  The revolution, to be able to play homebrew games, would have to be able to play pirated software. 

There's a fine line between pessimistic and realistic. You are over optimistic and unrealistic. You actually said PS3 might fall to number 3. Gamecube and XBox combined didn't even sell half the systems PS2 sold. Sony is starting with a much bigger market. They have 90 million buyers to get to buy a PS3, while Microsoft and Nintendo have about 20 million to start with. Sony could only attract half their audience while Nintendo and Microsoft could each double, and Sony would still be number 1. Sony may lose down the line  but anyone that thinks that Sony is going to lose the next round thinks with hte same logic that caused people to think Genesis would beat out SNES.


I don't get what the point is of taking a game like Mario Revolution and making it look like it was made by some guy.

[Don Seer]

I don't get what the point is of taking a game like Mario Revolution and making it look like it was made by some guy.

you have it all wrong.  you're over simiplifying things.. trauma understood and reexplained what i meant in the last paragraph of his post. i cant say it any better than he did. I dont think you're reading posts here properly or aren't able to understand some of the finer points seeing how wide you missed the mark with this one. shallow indeed...



i'll answer one valid point you made. yes nintendo traditionally is for the kid, cutsey market. the homebrew market IMO would be a slightly older range... pushing from 10+ through to college age.


as for accessing the tv.. the place of a PC is in a corner or a room.. only a console garners 'round the tv' support.. i've rarely sat with more than one person around a PC playing a game.. whereas i've sat in a room with up to say 8 people passing round controllers for console games.

[Shallow]

I don't get what the point is of taking a game like Mario Revolution and making it look like it was made by some guy.

you have it all wrong.  you're over simiplifying things.. trauma understood and reexplained what i meant in the last paragraph of his post. i cant say it any better than he did. I dont think you're reading posts here properly or aren't able to understand some of the finer points seeing how wide you missed the mark with this one. shallow indeed...

Okay I think I get it. Trauma means that you can reprogram original games when burning them and that way have your system play bootleg games. If that's all it is then big fucking deal. That's been going on since the Game Doctor and mod chips are easy to find. If I got it wrong again ten please explain it to me.

i'll answer one valid point you made. yes nintendo traditionally is for the kid, cutsey market. the homebrew market IMO would be a slightly older range... pushing from 10+ through to college age.


as for accessing the tv.. the place of a PC is in a corner or a room.. only a console garners 'round the tv' support.. i've rarely sat with more than one person around a PC playing a game.. whereas i've sat in a room with up to say 8 people passing round controllers for console games.

One valid point? Here's another valid point; Sony is going to beat the fuck out of the competition once more this round.

Why are you making this personal? Clicking the diss button (I just assumne it was you), and throwing out personal insults. I expect that kind of shit from Trauma, (which he didn't even do in this thread). Selling a system that appeals to programmers is like selling an album that appeals to songwriters and musicians. Neither means shit if you can't attract the common folk that just want to have a fun time. Nintendo has done very little in the past ten years when it comes to attracting the every day fan as far as console gaming goes. They've focused on games that appeal to kids and had a some that appeal to everyone but those were few and far between. The video game market has grown up and Nintendo failed to grow up with it. Sony on the other hand did and it won't be easy for Nintendo to take the market back, if they ever do. For the record, I'm not a Sony fan and have no loyalty to them but I know how to read the writing on the wall. Sony is doing everything better than than the others and they'll continue to come out on top because of the head start they have.

P.S. I have no problem hooking up my PC to a TV and getting USB ports for multiple controllers. Not that it matters since Internet Gaming is where it's at now (another thing I personally hate but know is here to stay). The Sims can still sell 8 million copies legit and if you count pirated games who knows how many people have Quake, Unreal, WarCraft, Starcraft, etc. The PC pirate market is probably a lot bigger than the console one (I don't mean money wise but availability).

[Woozie]

2 seperate parts u probably need to have for most games not forgetting a memory card too

[Don Seer]

I don't get what the point is of taking a game like Mario Revolution and making it look like it was made by some guy.

you have it all wrong.  you're over simiplifying things.. trauma understood and reexplained what i meant in the last paragraph of his post. i cant say it any better than he did. I dont think you're reading posts here properly or aren't able to understand some of the finer points seeing how wide you missed the mark with this one. shallow indeed...

Okay I think I get it. Trauma means that you can reprogram original games when burning them and that way have your system play bootleg games. If that's all it is then big fucking deal. That's been going on since the Game Doctor and mod chips are easy to find. If I got it wrong again ten please explain it to me.

the big deal is the the "bypass" would be in software.. and therefore wouldnt require hardware mods..

i.e.. its an easier hack.. 

and yes it is a BIG FUCKING DEAL to someone trying to get software houses to develop for their console if they can't promise a certain level of security.

your final points show you understand piracy to be a big issue since you admit that PC piracy is massive in comparison to console piracy. this is why people want to develop for consoles.. their investment is safer. (not safe.. safeR)

decent mod's chips do often take a long time to come out after console's are released.

Why are you making this personal? Clicking the diss button (I just assumne it was you), and throwing out personal insults. I expect that kind of shit from Trauma, (which he didn't even do in this thread).

no it wasn't me.. you're WAY over reacting.. you came out all defensive and actually ended up showing that you couldn't comprehend (and still cant by the looks of it) the implications of certain things

all i've said was the homebrew thing was a cool idea and that i liked it, i never said it would carry the console saleswise. just that its a cool thing to have... and that i like the idea of the controller.. i'm not going to buy one, i'm not even going to by a PS3 _OR_ an xbox 360. I only have an Xbox coz i was given it.. and if it weren't for xbmc i'd have sold it long ago. as it stands i can't do without it.

if you look back in this section i think xbox360 is far superior to the PS3 and have explained why i think the architecture is a winner. M$ had to get the release day jump on Sony this time round.. its a big risk.. but they're gonna get a lot of unit's in houses this Xmas which will be massively in their favour.

and no.. i still haven't clicked diss... i'm not on some childish petty shit like that

[Paul]

i dont know wot i think bout this

[Shallow]

I don't get what the point is of taking a game like Mario Revolution and making it look like it was made by some guy.

you have it all wrong.  you're over simiplifying things.. trauma understood and reexplained what i meant in the last paragraph of his post. i cant say it any better than he did. I dont think you're reading posts here properly or aren't able to understand some of the finer points seeing how wide you missed the mark with this one. shallow indeed...

Okay I think I get it. Trauma means that you can reprogram original games when burning them and that way have your system play bootleg games. If that's all it is then big fucking deal. That's been going on since the Game Doctor and mod chips are easy to find. If I got it wrong again ten please explain it to me.

the big deal is the the "bypass" would be in software.. and therefore wouldnt require hardware mods..

i.e.. its an easier hack.. 

and yes it is a BIG FUCKING DEAL to someone trying to get software houses to develop for their console if they can't promise a certain level of security.

your final points show you understand piracy to be a big issue since you admit that PC piracy is massive in comparison to console piracy. this is why people want to develop for consoles.. their investment is safer. (not safe.. safeR)

decent mod's chips do often take a long time to come out after console's are released.

Why are you making this personal? Clicking the diss button (I just assumne it was you), and throwing out personal insults. I expect that kind of shit from Trauma, (which he didn't even do in this thread).

no it wasn't me.. you're WAY over reacting.. you came out all defensive and actually ended up showing that you couldn't comprehend (and still cant by the looks of it) the implications of certain things

all i've said was the homebrew thing was a cool idea and that i liked it, i never said it would carry the console saleswise. just that its a cool thing to have... and that i like the idea of the controller.. i'm not going to buy one, i'm not even going to by a PS3 _OR_ an xbox 360. I only have an Xbox coz i was given it.. and if it weren't for xbmc i'd have sold it long ago. as it stands i can't do without it.

if you look back in this section i think xbox360 is far superior to the PS3 and have explained why i think the architecture is a winner. M$ had to get the release day jump on Sony this time round.. its a big risk.. but they're gonna get a lot of unit's in houses this Xmas which will be massively in their favour.

and no.. i still haven't clicked diss... i'm not on some childish petty shit like that

1) By the time there are enough games to need a mod chip (meaning when it gets to the point where you don't want to spend all that cash on 10+ games), there will be a mod chip. It's not like everyone that buys it is going to know how to reprogram the games. I'll bet the number of people that know where to get mod chips and pirated games greatly outnumber the number of people that would know how to use this techonology.

2) I disagree that it's safer to develop for a console these days. If it's CD or DVD based then anyone that can ind a PC game online can find a console game online.

3) I hardly "WAY" overreacted. I came online and saw my karma down and then the only post responding to one of my posts was by you and you took the time to personally insult me in that post. You can see how I came to my conclusion. You say it wasn't you and I'll take your word for. I really don't care about my Karma. I just found it petty and called you on it, but it wasn't you so I'm sorry. But I was wrong to think that.

4) Since I can't "by the looks of it" comprehend certain implications, why don't you explain it to me? This isn't a challenge; merely a request. I'm not trying to be stubborn or purposely ignoring what you said. If I've missed something I'd like to know what it was.


5) All you said was it was a cool idea, and I agreed with that, but I said it won't mean anything significant sales wise. Then you called my attitude the problem with gamers today. What was I supposed to think you wee referring to? I had said it was a cool idea and that it could create a nice cult fan base, and I said it wouldn't work mainstream because the games coming out wouldn't look like the games people have become accustomed to. I could only imagine you were associating my "problem" with the latter and disagreed with my opinion on the sucess of the system financially when compared to PS3. So I argued with you based on that. If we both think it'sa cool idea that won't take off in the mainstream then why are we arguing?

6) XBox wil get the jump and maybe sell a lot of units. Much like Dreamcast did, and just like Dreamcast it'll fall behind in sales by the end of the next Christmas. Sony has far too great a core fan base, and it'sa fan base of people in their 20s and 30s who have no problem withhte price tag. By Christmas 2006 the price will be smaller and a lot more people will buy and the X-Box 369 will have fallen to number 2 by January 2007. That's my prediction. Remember it, because I'll be glad to say I was wrong it come January 2007 X Box is ahead.

[Trauma-san]

In my opinion, I doubt it's true.  I read something, in an interview, that led me to believe that Nintendo will be working with smaller companies with some sort of templates, if that's possible, that will reduce some of the start up costs of developing games (they're saying around 50%).  I didn't read anything that led me to believe they would be releasing homebrew friendly software.  

Ultimately, the move they're making isn't to satiate fans who want to do their own games, it's to please third-party developers, whom Nintendo has had a rocky road with over the last several years.  The main reason Nintendo is in 3rd place right now is because they didn't make it easy for third party developers to thrive on their system.  Their first party titles are head and shoulders above the other two companies games, but that's not enough to win the battle anymore.

So now they're making it cheaper to make games for the revolution, they're saying you'll be able to make two or three revolution games for the price it would take to make 1 360 game or ps3 game.  I think it's an effective strategy that will probably help them out tremendously.  

I think the company with the most to lose this time around is Sony.  I don't see the PS3 being the #1 console, that will probably belong to X-box, and Nintendo may or may not regain the '2nd' spot.  The Gamecube has been outperforming the X-box in sales for nearly a year now, although in terms of overall sales it hasn't caught up.  

Shallow; you're basically a pessimist.  It comes across in all of your conversations. 

"Make it look like homebrew" means that if Nintendo allows you to make a homebrew game for their system, then you could just copy "Super Mario Bros Revolution" or whatever onto a disc, hack it with a small code that makes it look like an original, homebrew creation, and run pirated software on the system.  The revolution, to be able to play homebrew games, would have to be able to play pirated software. 

There's a fine line between pessimistic and realistic. You are over optimistic and unrealistic. You actually said PS3 might fall to number 3. Gamecube and XBox combined didn't even sell half the systems PS2 sold. Sony is starting with a much bigger market. They have 90 million buyers to get to buy a PS3, while Microsoft and Nintendo have about 20 million to start with. Sony could only attract half their audience while Nintendo and Microsoft could each double, and Sony would still be number 1. Sony may lose down the line  but anyone that thinks that Sony is going to lose the next round thinks with hte same logic that caused people to think Genesis would beat out SNES.


I don't get what the point is of taking a game like Mario Revolution and making it look like it was made by some guy.

That's because you're basically a fucking idiot.  You don't get the point a LOT of the time. 

[Shallow]

In my opinion, I doubt it's true.  I read something, in an interview, that led me to believe that Nintendo will be working with smaller companies with some sort of templates, if that's possible, that will reduce some of the start up costs of developing games (they're saying around 50%).  I didn't read anything that led me to believe they would be releasing homebrew friendly software.  

Ultimately, the move they're making isn't to satiate fans who want to do their own games, it's to please third-party developers, whom Nintendo has had a rocky road with over the last several years.  The main reason Nintendo is in 3rd place right now is because they didn't make it easy for third party developers to thrive on their system.  Their first party titles are head and shoulders above the other two companies games, but that's not enough to win the battle anymore.

So now they're making it cheaper to make games for the revolution, they're saying you'll be able to make two or three revolution games for the price it would take to make 1 360 game or ps3 game.  I think it's an effective strategy that will probably help them out tremendously.  

I think the company with the most to lose this time around is Sony.  I don't see the PS3 being the #1 console, that will probably belong to X-box, and Nintendo may or may not regain the '2nd' spot.  The Gamecube has been outperforming the X-box in sales for nearly a year now, although in terms of overall sales it hasn't caught up.  

Shallow; you're basically a pessimist.  It comes across in all of your conversations. 

"Make it look like homebrew" means that if Nintendo allows you to make a homebrew game for their system, then you could just copy "Super Mario Bros Revolution" or whatever onto a disc, hack it with a small code that makes it look like an original, homebrew creation, and run pirated software on the system.  The revolution, to be able to play homebrew games, would have to be able to play pirated software. 

There's a fine line between pessimistic and realistic. You are over optimistic and unrealistic. You actually said PS3 might fall to number 3. Gamecube and XBox combined didn't even sell half the systems PS2 sold. Sony is starting with a much bigger market. They have 90 million buyers to get to buy a PS3, while Microsoft and Nintendo have about 20 million to start with. Sony could only attract half their audience while Nintendo and Microsoft could each double, and Sony would still be number 1. Sony may lose down the line  but anyone that thinks that Sony is going to lose the next round thinks with hte same logic that caused people to think Genesis would beat out SNES.


I don't get what the point is of taking a game like Mario Revolution and making it look like it was made by some guy.

That's because you're basically a fucking idiot.  You don't get the point a LOT of the time. 

I already admitted I was wrong and misinterpreted what you meant and corrected myself. Then I showed the reprograming method obsolete and still pointless. It's easier just get a mod chip and even if it were easier to reprogram, how does that help Nintendo's game sales?

[Don Seer]

In my opinion, I doubt it's true.  I read something, in an interview, that led me to believe that Nintendo will be working with smaller companies with some sort of templates, if that's possible, that will reduce some of the start up costs of developing games (they're saying around 50%).  I didn't read anything that led me to believe they would be releasing homebrew friendly software.  

Ultimately, the move they're making isn't to satiate fans who want to do their own games, it's to please third-party developers, whom Nintendo has had a rocky road with over the last several years.  The main reason Nintendo is in 3rd place right now is because they didn't make it easy for third party developers to thrive on their system.  Their first party titles are head and shoulders above the other two companies games, but that's not enough to win the battle anymore.

So now they're making it cheaper to make games for the revolution, they're saying you'll be able to make two or three revolution games for the price it would take to make 1 360 game or ps3 game.  I think it's an effective strategy that will probably help them out tremendously.  

I think the company with the most to lose this time around is Sony.  I don't see the PS3 being the #1 console, that will probably belong to X-box, and Nintendo may or may not regain the '2nd' spot.  The Gamecube has been outperforming the X-box in sales for nearly a year now, although in terms of overall sales it hasn't caught up.  

Shallow; you're basically a pessimist.  It comes across in all of your conversations. 

"Make it look like homebrew" means that if Nintendo allows you to make a homebrew game for their system, then you could just copy "Super Mario Bros Revolution" or whatever onto a disc, hack it with a small code that makes it look like an original, homebrew creation, and run pirated software on the system.  The revolution, to be able to play homebrew games, would have to be able to play pirated software. 

There's a fine line between pessimistic and realistic. You are over optimistic and unrealistic. You actually said PS3 might fall to number 3. Gamecube and XBox combined didn't even sell half the systems PS2 sold. Sony is starting with a much bigger market. They have 90 million buyers to get to buy a PS3, while Microsoft and Nintendo have about 20 million to start with. Sony could only attract half their audience while Nintendo and Microsoft could each double, and Sony would still be number 1. Sony may lose down the line  but anyone that thinks that Sony is going to lose the next round thinks with hte same logic that caused people to think Genesis would beat out SNES.


I don't get what the point is of taking a game like Mario Revolution and making it look like it was made by some guy.

That's because you're basically a fucking idiot.  You don't get the point a LOT of the time. 

I already admitted I was wrong and misinterpreted what you meant and corrected myself. Then I showed the reprograming method obsolete and still pointless. It's easier just get a mod chip and even if it were easier to reprogram, how does that help Nintendo's game sales?

you still dont get the point.

i'll try explain.

first put yourself in the position of a person who works for a 3rd party development house wanting to develop games for revolution.

you want to know that the games you write wont be copied easily (originally i made the difference between not being SAFE but being SAFER without the homebrew interface)

mod chips are not easy to fit and source for the average joe, they're scared of fitting them, they dont understand flashing them and all that business.

on the other hand take a backdoor that is exploited by a legitimate interface which lets you run homegrown software _without_ invalidating the console's warranty.


there are two likely ways people would provide a hack via the homegrown interface.

option 1 : the need for each game to be modified to run via the homebrew thing.
option 2 : a homebrew 'loader' for copied games.  this would be more desireable and a major problem




now.. go back to where you're meant to be thinkin about things from.


therefore... would you rather produced a game for a console with a limited number of users capable of doing hardware modding or one where a supported interface for homebrew stuff allows anyone to easily get around the security?

obviously the hardware modding "risk" is a far better option...

i'm not saying that a homebrew interface _would_ be hacked.. but given the history of things its very likely in one of the 2 methods i mentioned above.

this is why its likely a homebew interface isn't likely until a secure or very limited operating environment is available.

second point. you said something about cd's/dvd's being esay to copy.. yes thats true.. which is why several posts ago i pointed out how actually all console manufacturers do something clever with the media.

you're misinformed if you think they use "normal" cd's in the "normal" fashion.. put a xbox game in a dvd drive you wont read jack shit.
xbox games _have_ to be ripped over a network via the xbox drive itself..

[Trauma-san]

Remember it, because I'll be glad to say I was wrong it come January 2007 X Box is ahead.

I'm still waiting for you to admit that you were wrong when you said the DS was gonna "Flop"... when the fuckign thing STILL is selling like a motherfucker.  Or what about the Gameboy Micro? Everybody alive would think that thing wouldn't sell, but it just opened up in Japan with 155,000 units sold the first week, more than the SP's 110 thousand it sold it's first week.  Or what about Nintendogs?  You're always saying Nintendo makes childish games, there's a childish game people are buying complete systems just to get.  



FINALLY, to round this all out, about 2 months ago, the major three released their quarterly profit reports.  Nintendo saw huge declines in profit and how many units it was selling and moving, but Microsoft and Sony did too.

Sony reported quarterly losses of 52.6 million dollars.  LOST.  in the quarter before that, Sony lost 532 million dollars.  LOST.

Microsoft's game division reported quarterly losses of 179 million dollars.  LOST.

Nintendo's profits in the slow quarter?   630 MILLION DOLLARS.  Profit.  Nintendo doesn't like Red.  

You're talking about what an Idiot I am by saying the PS3 may slip to #3, Sony just announced thursday they're cutting 10 thousand jobs.  I'm not the only one (including Sony) who doesn't see a rosy outlook for them.  

So while Sony's firing 10 thousand people, and losing money the past two consecutive quarters, Nintendo's putting along earning 700 million dollars a quarter.  And you're telling me I don't know what I'm talking about? Look the numbers up.  What difference does it make how many systems and games sony and xbox are selling if they're LOSING MONEY?

X-Box has made a profit, one quarter.  ONE QUARTER.  Last December, they posted their first profits, ever, then immediately sat about losing money again.  

Now I realize Microsoft and Sony can afford to lose money, but don't talk to me about how Crazy it is to say Sony might fall to Nintendo when all you have to do is look at the profit margins.  Nintendo refuses to lose money, Sony and Xbox frequently do.