kind of a survey for rap fans

[Trauma-san]

ha, with that statement about classical music, you just showed your knowledge of music.  Nevermind, LOL... just act like I didn't say anything.

[lala]

ha, with that statement about classical music, you just showed your knowledge of music.  Nevermind, LOL... just act like I didn't say anything.

I never commented on its quality.  Look at the Billboard and Soundscan to see its place in todays musical society.  The only time classical gets any play is if its part of a music soundtrack.

1

[Trauma-san]

You're thinking about recordings.  The majority of public PERFORMANCES are always classical.  And remember what you said about students, the only music "taught" anywhere is classical, in school all around the world.  Nobody teaches Rock... or Rap.  So it has a very, very, very important place in society.  But still, I'm questioning why you're trying to downplay the 'white' significance in music, it doesn't matter if someone's white or black that made music, they both make great music.  What you could make a case for, though, is American Music.  America invented Rock, Country, Blues, Jazz, Rap, etc. etc. etc.

[lala]

You're thinking about recordings.  The majority of public PERFORMANCES are always classical.  And remember what you said about students, the only music "taught" anywhere is classical, in school all around the world.  Nobody teaches Rock... or Rap.  So it has a very, very, very important place in society.  But still, I'm questioning why you're trying to downplay the 'white' significance in music, it doesn't matter if someone's white or black that made music, they both make great music.  What you could make a case for, though, is American Music.  America invented Rock, Country, Blues, Jazz, Rap, etc. etc. etc.

I'm not downplaying white achievements just bigging up black ones.  Black achievements were downplayed for years from people like Pat Benatar(I think thats his last name) basically stealing black songs like little Richards and putting a white face on them.  And in a society that revolves around race as much as this one does, erasing and degrading black inventors for as many years as it has, people naturally think that rock music is white or rapping about the ghetto is a bad thing.  I have no problem with people who like John Cash more than George Clinton but that doesn't mean I wouldn't call them if they said Ted Nugent played a better gutair than Hendrix like he claimed.

So don't get it twisted I have nothing against clapton, page, elton, or eminem in fact I listen to all of them I just had to speak on Tanjints generalizations he was putting out there.

[KVB]

1. Not only, but 90 %

2. N/A

3. Rock, Classical, Michael Jackson

[Tanjential]

okay the whole race issue came to play when i said,sometimes i wish whites would have invented rap because i was complaining that blacks have generally overworn the same shit topically,"the ghetto" and "i'm doper than you" "i'm rich now" "i love you,bitch" the ghetto includes the weed,cops,shooting cars,money issues etc. i'm doper than you is the bragging raps,the "i have a big ass dick and a bag ass gun and a big ass car" etc. right after a line stating "i'm struggling in the ghetto"..."i'm rich now" includes bragging about what he does with his money and party tracks..i could go on but these 4 umbrella topics are generally all rap is...even the gods rakim,biggie,pac slipped into this alot..anfd this is with songs that are approximately pages long, 1 minute long verse is about a page,most songs are 3 verses...so they have 3 pages to say alot and they don't use this....meanwhile the rock i've been promoting have songs that are 1 page long and the lyrics can be so deep diverse and constantly progressing etc....rap was on that level until we realized rap wasn't gonna say anything else....hell the real talented white rappers have taken it farther...everlast has integrated blues with rap,genius! Eminem brings introspective anger to life with vivid shocking disgusting imagery....and he's so oversaturated it's even getting old but he keeps it fresh by using the best tactics of the "i'm doper than you" topic umbrella to express anger rather than shooting someone and getting arrested...how many rappers can we say that about? even the mexicans are just a latinized vesion of the black stuff....cypress hill:weed and the hood same shit.....lil rob....the hood and bitches....i mean there are some rap love songs but these half the time are just asking for pussy and saying they're gonna get it...and when they try to be real love songs it actually can come out good but of course they have to be "hard ass gangsta ass niggaz" so they can't do that very often......can you say fucking inecure? Don't say it's wrong to associate black cultures problems with black musics problems because there is a corellation! The black culture keeps themselves down and they keep their music down,they have talent,they can do it but they don't generally.
modern rock is the same way it's stagnated in its "life sucks...i got dumped ahhhh!!!" but at least it pays homage to classic rock.....the only people modern rappers pay homage too are their dead friends, and biggie and pac....i comletely agree with traumas example of life goes on....it's the same to me with "how long wil they mourn me?"...i mean the emotion was there but the precision wasn't.....it's like they just slapped that shit down without checking  if their rhymes were good and mindlessy incessantly cussing,i don't have a problem with cussing but they make it just plain fucking stupid! my point was i think white people would have stayed lyrically prgressive and would have made a few significant lyrical statements,rap had made one real significant topical movement,Rocks had about 4....-party anthem-so basic but for the time was great,-rebel-played out now but revolutionary at the time,-love- rock took it deeper-drugs-and how they open the mind and psychedelic visions-and finally depression/anger-which it's still in for better or for
worse......rap has had about 23 years and it's cheif themes/statements:battle rap(i'm doper than you)/gangsta rap(ghetto)
remain....when rock had 20 years (1952-1972) it was already near the end of its transition from drugs to depression/anger!

Now you know i'm not racist but i say that all to defend my statement,i mean after all that(and i know i repeated alot of what i said before in that but most of you have failed to dismantle much of it) can you blame me for saying what said? other than that statement you got about nothin on me lala,okay immersed was a bad word to use for the hendrix comparison but besides his blues/funk stuff his hard rock/psychedelia(which is the bulf of his work and renown,and thats no bias,i like his blues best) are white predominated genres and hendrix was in 'em,which,like i said,is okay.and what do you mean "but with" electric guitars?? Blues had been electric before hendrix, Willie Dixon,Muddy Waters, and JOHN LEE HOOKER!!! doin electric guitar pickin a bit before hendrix.....anyways what does BDP/KRS and black sheep talk about that may support your claim that rap does stretch farther....i'm not saying all rap anyway,just most,the underground stuff is mainly under the "i'm doper than you" umbrella anyway so don't go there....i see at this point this is lacking direction but i'm hoping you people are understanding me here,peace-Tanjint

[Cliftone_Santiago_909]

okay the whole race issue came to play when i said,sometimes i wish whites would have invented rap because i was complaining that blacks have generally overworn the same shit topically,"the ghetto" and "i'm doper than you" "i'm rich now" "i love you,bitch" the ghetto includes the weed,cops,shooting cars,money issues etc. i'm doper than you is the bragging raps,the "i have a big ass dick and a bag ass gun and a big ass car" etc. right after a line stating "i'm struggling in the ghetto"..."i'm rich now" includes bragging about what he does with his money and party tracks..i could go on but these 4 umbrella topics are generally all rap is...even the gods rakim,biggie,pac slipped into this alot..anfd this is with songs that are approximately pages long, 1 minute long verse is about a page,most songs are 3 verses...so they have 3 pages to say alot and they don't use this....meanwhile the rock i've been promoting have songs that are 1 page long and the lyrics can be so deep diverse and constantly progressing etc....rap was on that level until we realized rap wasn't gonna say anything else....hell the real talented white rappers have taken it farther...everlast has integrated blues with rap,genius! Eminem brings introspective anger to life with vivid shocking disgusting imagery....and he's so oversaturated it's even getting old but he keeps it fresh by using the best tactics of the "i'm doper than you" topic umbrella to express anger rather than shooting someone and getting arrested...how many rappers can we say that about? even the mexicans are just a latinized vesion of the black stuff....cypress hill:weed and the hood same shit.....lil rob....the hood and bitches....i mean there are some rap love songs but these half the time are just asking for pussy and saying they're gonna get it...and when they try to be real love songs it actually can come out good but of course they have to be "hard ass gangsta ass niggaz" so they can't do that very often......can you say fucking inecure? Don't say it's wrong to associate black cultures problems with black musics problems because there is a corellation! The black culture keeps themselves down and they keep their music down,they have talent,they can do it but they don't generally.
modern rock is the same way it's stagnated in its "life sucks...i got dumped ahhhh!!!" but at least it pays homage to classic rock.....the only people modern rappers pay homage too are their dead friends, and biggie and pac....i comletely agree with traumas example of life goes on....it's the same to me with "how long wil they mourn me?"...i mean the emotion was there but the precision wasn't.....it's like they just slapped that shit down without checking  if their rhymes were good and mindlessy incessantly cussing,i don't have a problem with cussing but they make it just plain fucking stupid! my point was i think white people would have stayed lyrically prgressive and would have made a few significant lyrical statements,rap had made one real significant topical movement,Rocks had about 4....-party anthem-so basic but for the time was great,-rebel-played out now but revolutionary at the time,-love- rock took it deeper-drugs-and how they open the mind and psychedelic visions-and finally depression/anger-which it's still in for better or for
worse......rap has had about 23 years and it's cheif themes/statements:battle rap(i'm doper than you)/gangsta rap(ghetto)
remain....when rock had 20 years (1952-1972) it was already near the end of its transition from drugs to depression/anger!

Now you know i'm not racist but i say that all to defend my statement,i mean after all that(and i know i repeated alot of what i said before in that but most of you have failed to dismantle much of it) can you blame me for saying what said? other than that statement you got about nothin on me lala,okay immersed was a bad word to use for the hendrix comparison but besides his blues/funk stuff his hard rock/psychedelia(which is the bulf of his work and renown,and thats no bias,i like his blues best) are white predominated genres and hendrix was in 'em,which,like i said,is okay.and what do you mean "but with" electric guitars?? Blues had been electric before hendrix, Willie Dixon,Muddy Waters, and JOHN LEE HOOKER!!! doin electric guitar pickin a bit before hendrix.....anyways what does BDP/KRS and black sheep talk about that may support your claim that rap does stretch farther....i'm not saying all rap anyway,just most,the underground stuff is mainly under the "i'm doper than you" umbrella anyway so don't go there....i see at this point this is lacking direction but i'm hoping you people are understanding me here,peace-Tanjint

Tanjint.. I don't think you really want to accept what everybody's trying to tell you. You're too deep into your music. And there's nothin wrong with that.. that's coo'.. you like Classic Rock.. but why do you have to take so much from Rap to make Rock look good. They each have their pro's and their cons.. there's just as much garbage Rock Music out there than there is Hip Hop. My dad listens to tha Doors, The Eagles, The Beatles, Elton John.. all kinds of shit.. I recognize it's all good music.. It just aint my music, It dont do nothin for me.. Almost Famous.. that was a dope ass movie.. I just like Menace II Society a lil bit better...

Those "Topical Movements" you listed for Rock.. you listed 5 of them.. "Party Anthem", "Rebel", "Drugs", "Love", and "Depression".. Well, I've heard so many Rappers cover these same topics plenty of times as well. I just dont think you're as knoledgeable about Rap as you think you are. I mean, to say that Dre and Outkast are the only ones in Rap Music progressing is a pretty big opinion and isn't accurate at all.

Rap Music started in the Ghetto. It was started by an oppressed society.. of course that oppression is gonna reflect in the music. That's why they cuss in almost every song... the cuss words just help paint the picture... but that's not all Rap is.. you're kinda stereotyping Rap Music like old people do... sayin Rap is all about "Bling Bling", "Fuck This, Fuck That", "I Fucked Your Girl and Your Mama"... and it's not even like that. I agree a huge percent of it is though.. and that's not good but still... you can't just dismiss it as a whole.

I'm trying to understand your argument but the more you argue, the more I disagree. I know you have a passion for Classic rock and I respect your admiration for it... I just dont share it. And it's cool for you to try to spread your love for that music but like I said.. why do you have to take away from Rap to do that? Like in that other thread.. the one about Nate Dogg... you replied to it and dissed Rap Fans by saying they couldn't understand words longer than one sillable.. what for?

[Tanjential]

hm,well it just disturbed me that people still take the music seriously as art. as entertainment,hell ap prevails,i mean last night i was in the car and the original version of bad azz/snoop's we be puttin it down came on,now that's some g-funk, and it was funky and it was cool to cruise to,but i mean the bass was so damn high on that shit you can't hear half of what the fuck their saying,now do you think they as artists really care about their words? and i'm tired of rap fans i know always putting me down for liking old music..and mainly i wanted to share it because it felt so good and natural to make the change from west coast g-funk to classic rock that i felt that everyone that was the way i was could do it....i mean i was as heavy into rap as anyone in here but it just slipped away and i'm how i am now...and that says alot to me,mainly i just don't respct modern rap anymore because it's not art like n.w.a. and 2pac was,that was art,that was statements,and was for raps party anthems,they are just a blend of the "i'm rich now"/"i love you,bitch"/and "ghetto-weed"-umbrellas,raps love songs are under the "i love you bitch" umbrella the "rebel" rap songs are just rehashes of n.w.a's classic "fuck tha police" the depression ones are complaing about being poor,NEVER emotional because rappers can't show emotion cuz they have to be "hard ass gangsta ass niggaz" and are under the "ghetto" umbrella, and as for the sylabbles thing,lets put it this way,most rap fans call similes metaphors and proclaim kurupt as one of the best mcs while he has mucho throwaway rhymes and inconsistencies such as "i'm a cloud of electricty/and i'll fuck you up!" from We About To Get Fucc Up on Dillinger and Gotti you know how many dope rhymes Kurupt could have done on that line? But no he got lazy and according to you guys kurupt is ill.....crooked i is the only good gangsta rapper and even his topics are boring,nas' i suppose arguably is progressive but he's really saying the same things he was in 94 but with more militance, but your main point is right-you got your music,i got mine and i should respect that,i think i just got offensive when they said rap is the only real music because my whole point is to make it realized that only a fraction of raps potential has been used,now if you'll excuse me i think i'm go bump tha streetz iz a mutha and see if i can still dig this,wish me luck,peace-Tanjint

[Cliftone_Santiago_909]

i think i just got offensive when they said rap is the only real music because my whole point is to make it realized that only a fraction of raps potential has been used,now if you'll excuse me i think i'm go bump tha streetz iz a mutha and see if i can still dig this,wish me luck,peace-Tanjint

See... The problem still remains though. Why listen to Tha Streetz Iz A Mutha? You already realised you aint down with the message Gangsta Rap spreads... you know Kurupt aint gonna satisfy you cuz you already see past his image and aint impressed with his procliamed lyrical skills. You still aint lookin in the right places. Like if I decided to start listening to Rock, and I chose to listen to Metalica (Which is probalby a good group, just like Kurupts a good rapper), wouldn't you want to guide me towards The Doors or The Beatles cuz you know how good they are.. dont say you wouldn't cuz that's practically what you've been doing this whole thread. Well I'ma do you a favor.. I'ma tell you to put Tha Streetz down and try listening to these..  you might not like them but atleast give'em a shot.

Blackalious: "NIA" - They do alot of boasting.. but that's coo' cuz their straight Hip Hop... crazy hooks and their music just sounds dope.. their shit easily gets stuck in your head.. If you're gonna listen to this.. i suggest you listen to tha whole cd.. get the whole vibe down.

Masta Ace: "Disposable Arts" - He's been in tha game for a long time but still has a fresh voice. He's probably just as upset with how Rap is today as you are. I dont know if you'll like his whole cd but here's some songs you can download which you might like. "Hold You", "Black Episode", "Enuff", "Dear Diary".

Pep Love: "Acsension" - He gives off a pretty good vibe and tries to spread a positive message. Probably one of the most "nice"  sounding cd i own.

Common: "Like Water For Chocholate" - You should know who Common is. I dont know if you're feelin him. He's pretty good though. You've probably already heard "The Light".. I dont know how you feel about it but it's  a pretty good love song in my opinion. He isnt tryna be a hard ass gangsta nigga at all.

Damn.. I've spent alot of time on you and this thread.. I hope you give these guys a chance.. a lil bit of your time and hopefully you can reply and let me know what you think.

[Cliftone_Santiago_909]

Here you go.. here's the links to the pages where you can hear sample clips of songs off these albums. Each sample clip is 30 seconds long.. it shouldn't take too much of your time.

Blackalicous "NIA"
http://music.msn.com/Album/?album=113006

Masta Ace - Disposable Arts
http://music.msn.com/Album/?album=611839

Pep Love - "Ascension"
http://music.msn.com/Album/?album=606581

Common - "Like Water For Chocolate"
http://music.msn.com/Album/?album=113015

[ImmortalOne]

Though hip hop is my fav kind of music, I also listen to classic rock and SOME alternative rock.

For classic rock, some of my favs include Led Zeppelin, Jimi Hendrix, Pink Floyd, Aerosmith, The Doors, Black Sabbath, etc etc.......I listen to alternative rock to a lesser degree, but I like Smashing Pumpkins, some of Pearl Jams shit, and a little bit of Nirvana here and there. Im not much into heavy metal, but I do like ONE Metallica album [the Black Album]. Classic rock is my cup of tea for the most part though.

[bricklayer]

i listen to just about everythin....always try to keep an open mind wit music especially since i make music....its good to have other feelings runnin thru your veins.......holllllllllla
peace