Author Topic: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)  (Read 177660 times)

Sikotic™

Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6975 on: March 27, 2013, 10:45:33 PM »
Is it me or does this Wrestlemania card just seem a little weak? All the main events are just rematches.
 

Sikotic™

Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6976 on: March 29, 2013, 10:18:42 AM »
Damn, Ric Flair's youngest son just died.

I think dude was hooked to heroin and working in Japan. Sad shit.
 

Sccit

Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6977 on: March 29, 2013, 11:34:39 AM »
Damn, Ric Flair's youngest son just died.

I think dude was hooked to heroin and working in Japan. Sad shit.


the one who used to wrestle on wcw? or was it wwf??
 

DJ SUGAFREE QUIK

Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6978 on: March 30, 2013, 02:13:42 AM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/TG-biPOCyeo?hl=en_US&amp;amp;version=3" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/TG-biPOCyeo?hl=en_US&amp;amp;version=3</a>

Not sure why the WWE doesn't let Naomi and AJ wrestle more. These two girls can WORK! They know about twice as many moves as the average diva who just cat fights. These two actually know how to do wrestling moves like men. Damn I forgot AJ had an awesome finisher that makes it believable for her to beat the larger girls.
Cause the suits at stamford loves insulting women who do actually wrestle.  They been doing it since the 90's.  Having them look bad against those who don't know the difference between a wristlock from a wristwatch.  The meaing of the women's title died when Stephanie won the title.  I remember that smackdown & when the match was said to happen, there was no mention of a title match.  There was a period when on raw from 2002-2003 i'd rather watch the women wrestlers than the men but they fixed that, not in the positive way.  And remember the diva searches?  Besides Christy Hemme, i'd love to 4get that period in wrestling. 
the real reason women are held back in WWE,WCW, & TNA these days is to not make the male wreslters look bad .
The terrible male wrestlers need to step their game up when that happens.  But of course....same thing happens with other male wrestlers.  I remember seeing on youtube about Austin & Pillman tag team story.  Even though I despised them then, they did what they supposed to do.  Do whatever got them over as wrestlers.  Even when they did evil stuff, they still got cheered by the fans.  And certain washed up wrestlers did their politics to have higher ups hold them back & break them up cause they were too lazy to step their game up.  I remember DDP saying in the past, its the fans who say who's over but some organizations....its about who's over with the business.
   But i'm glad you said something i've felt happened for many years.  Sometimes in life you gotta put 2 & 2 together.  Someone exciting I like to watch gets held back for some reason, i'd feel that its some washed up has been wrestlers who be doing the SOBS=Same Old Boring insert whatever S word you like for decades  :sleep: that had something to do with it politics wise. 
 

DJ SUGAFREE QUIK

Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6979 on: March 30, 2013, 02:31:58 AM »
Damn, Ric Flair's youngest son just died.

I think dude was hooked to heroin and working in Japan. Sad shit.


the one who used to wrestle on wcw? or was it wwf??
WCW.  Even though I hated Ric Flair, he does NOT DESERVE this.  Too many young deaths out there, not just wrestling deaths.  Fucked up.  He looked like an innocent kid in the late 90's.  I checked out the wikipedia & it tells that young Reid wasn't that innocent.  He did stuff i'd expect David to be doing.  He did the amateur wrestling, & it seems like he could have a future in wrestling....but no.  Sad tragedy  :'(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_Flair
 

Sikotic™

Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6980 on: March 30, 2013, 11:36:51 AM »
When your dad is Ric Flair though, you're bound to live a lil on the wild side too.
 

Shallow

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Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6981 on: April 09, 2013, 05:58:50 PM »
Damn, Ric Flair's youngest son just died.

I think dude was hooked to heroin and working in Japan. Sad shit.


the one who used to wrestle on wcw? or was it wwf??

That's too bad. I saw a bit of his AJPW work. He was decent, tall and the son of Ric Flair. Eventually he would have gotten a shot in the WWE to work an angle.
 

O.G A.Geesta'z

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Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6982 on: April 09, 2013, 08:51:32 PM »
so i heard Rock was suppose to get did by Lesnar tonight but he used his injuries as an excuse to no show
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Shallow

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Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6983 on: April 13, 2013, 02:09:53 PM »
so i heard Rock was suppose to get did by Lesnar tonight but he used his injuries as an excuse to no show


Like it matters. They'll never properly recreate Lesnar as long as they feel like dicking him around for walking out on them.


The problem with the WWE is on one hand they don't want to skyrocket someone from the start because they're worried that it'll go to their heads, like it did with Lesnar, but on the other hand it becomes very hard to create stars in the first place you you beat them up again and again in front of the same fans you want to buy into them in the future.

It was easier in the old territory days to know who was serious, because fans in Memphis or Georgia never really got to see a guy from St Louis Wrestling get beat down in the first stages of his career, so when Ric Flair worked in Minnesota and Japan between 72 and 74 and was a big fat slob that got beat a lot, no fan in Carolina knew what he looked like or how he looked bad at times. They just heard of him by name, his credentials were told them by the announcers and he looked likea force to reckon with right away. He came in and won the TV title off his namesake alone, and the crowd bought it.

The WWE doesn't like to even acknowledge wrestlers existed before they came to the WWE. They change names and histories and want to re-create the character completely. And then they want to make sure the guy is serious about the company by putting him through the ringer. But when the time comes to push the guy fans still remember the guy as a scrub, and while you can overcome it, it still makes it harder and limits how high they can go.

Hogan didn't lose a match between 83 and 90, and they created the single biggest money generator in their company's history. He still would have been a star if they tested him first but no where near as big a star.
 

O.G A.Geesta'z

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Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6984 on: April 13, 2013, 10:10:56 PM »
so i heard Rock was suppose to get did by Lesnar tonight but he used his injuries as an excuse to no show


Like it matters. They'll never properly recreate Lesnar as long as they feel like dicking him around for walking out on them.


The problem with the WWE is on one hand they don't want to skyrocket someone from the start because they're worried that it'll go to their heads, like it did with Lesnar, but on the other hand it becomes very hard to create stars in the first place you you beat them up again and again in front of the same fans you want to buy into them in the future.

It was easier in the old territory days to know who was serious, because fans in Memphis or Georgia never really got to see a guy from St Louis Wrestling get beat down in the first stages of his career, so when Ric Flair worked in Minnesota and Japan between 72 and 74 and was a big fat slob that got beat a lot, no fan in Carolina knew what he looked like or how he looked bad at times. They just heard of him by name, his credentials were told them by the announcers and he looked likea force to reckon with right away. He came in and won the TV title off his namesake alone, and the crowd bought it.

The WWE doesn't like to even acknowledge wrestlers existed before they came to the WWE. They change names and histories and want to re-create the character completely. And then they want to make sure the guy is serious about the company by putting him through the ringer. But when the time comes to push the guy fans still remember the guy as a scrub, and while you can overcome it, it still makes it harder and limits how high they can go.

Hogan didn't lose a match between 83 and 90, and they created the single biggest money generator in their company's history. He still would have been a star if they tested him first but no where near as big a star.
i agree the only person i think the only person they are pushing good right now is Ryback, they started him off as this unstoppable face who got over with the kids, then proved he could lose, and is now giving him a run as a heel against Cena which will get him over with the adult fans, all he has to work on now is his mic skills

then you got people like Ziggler and Ryder
Ziggler should of been champion a long time ago or should of atleast had a lengthy interconinental title rune, but instead they make him job and give him the strap without really ever beating anyone, which makes him hard to be a "credible" champion... but Ziggler has everything going for him from the looks, to mic skills to in ring ability, its just how he holds the strap is whats really gonna make him

then you got Ryder who was the most over new superstar last year and they did shit with him, they make him look like as ass with AJ, they milked his gimmick but never got a real push, if he did he would be a top draw for sure atleast in the US title or Intercontinental title aspect, now for him to really be a credible guy he'd have to drop the stupid gimmick that made him and just be himself kind of like what Stone cold/ Rock did... which will either make him or break him, until then he will always just be another gimmick wrestler

being a fan i guess you just have to accept that things arent like they are back in the golden days and just enjoy it for what it is now
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Shallow

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Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6985 on: April 14, 2013, 08:34:06 PM »
i agree the only person i think the only person they are pushing good right now is Ryback, they started him off as this unstoppable face who got over with the kids, then proved he could lose, and is now giving him a run as a heel against Cena which will get him over with the adult fans, all he has to work on now is his mic skills

then you got people like Ziggler and Ryder
Ziggler should of been champion a long time ago or should of atleast had a lengthy interconinental title rune, but instead they make him job and give him the strap without really ever beating anyone, which makes him hard to be a "credible" champion... but Ziggler has everything going for him from the looks, to mic skills to in ring ability, its just how he holds the strap is whats really gonna make him

then you got Ryder who was the most over new superstar last year and they did shit with him, they make him look like as ass with AJ, they milked his gimmick but never got a real push, if he did he would be a top draw for sure atleast in the US title or Intercontinental title aspect, now for him to really be a credible guy he'd have to drop the stupid gimmick that made him and just be himself kind of like what Stone cold/ Rock did... which will either make him or break him, until then he will always just be another gimmick wrestler

being a fan i guess you just have to accept that things arent like they are back in the golden days and just enjoy it for what it is now

I couldn't even put faces to the names you mentioned so I can't judge their pushes.

As for the way it was to how it used to be, I get the one fundemental change that makes it harder to know who to push; in the territory days you knew for sure that the guy you want to put a rocket on will get over because he had already gotten over in different markets, big markets, as opposed to getting over in OVW or ROH.
Hogan was a bonafide star before he came back to the WWF. He showed that in AWA. There was little risk involved in taking the belt off of Backlund to give to Hogan. Hogan was already a much bigger draw. And they used Shiek as the middle man because they understood common sense that Backlund still had a large amount of NorthEast fans and you didn't want any resentment carrying over. (Something they forgot huge with Warrior 7 years later).
Looking at it closely Vince was never a long term thinker, or even a sound one. The early WWF days were ran in large part by Jim Barnett and Goerge Scott, the best promotor and booker respectively in the business, and they did so as a favour to Vince Sr. Vince really took what they built and ran it into the ground. Then he got lucky selling smut TV in the Jerry Springer era for 2 to 3 years.

He took the big leap and ran the waves well. I Won't take all credit away from him. It was his vision and he deserves the credit for that. But as far as promoting and booking he made so many ridiculous moves over the years he's lucky the competition was simpy that much stupider.
I mean the amount of times over the years he flushed money down the toilet to statisfy his own ego; First by not running with Hogan vs Flair, then by letting Vader flop right out of the gate, then the WCW invasion angle, then RVD, and then Goldberg vs Austin.

These events pretty much write themselves. All you have to do is not go out of your way to screw it up, and he did so every time.
And even when his ego isn't in question, and it's a guy that became a star under him, he still pulls the rug out from under them at the worst times. I remember Shelton BEnjamin a few years back about to get over huge fueding with Evolution. The crowd was really getting behind him. So Vince squashed him a few times and then took him off TV.

But I don't assume Shleton would have become the next Rock or Austin. However I remember watching a Rumble a few years back and CM Punk was the first guy in, and the room I was watching it in was filled with either old time fans who didn't know him, or non fans, but they were really getting behind the guy. The stage was set for him to win the Rumble, and I garauntee everyone in that room and across America would have been anticipating seeing him at Mania to the point where word of mouth would have really made a differece. Instead they dump him out mid way through the Rumble and that's it.

My friends told me that since then they built him to the top, but now I hear he lost to Taker at Mania. What a joke that is. Yeah I get the Taker legacy of being undefeated at Mania. I also remember the Andre legacy, although false, of never being pinned. Can you imagine if he had beaten Hogan at WM3?

At the very least, you can keep the streak going by having Taker go over perrenial mid-carders or old stars. You don't bury the new guys, that you want to push, to put over a guy you don't sell anymore.

It's the equivolent of Ford putting out a 2014 Mustang commercial where the 2014 Mustang loses a race to the 1965 Mustang. It's simply bad marketing and bad economics, and it's something you learn in the 101 classes of each of those subjects.

But like I said, it's a genre of entertainment that will always have fans and as long as the competition is avoiding the basic rulers of business more than Vince is, the WWE will be on top. But the heap is getting smaller and smaller, so being on top of it means less and less.
 

midwestryder

Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6986 on: April 14, 2013, 08:51:55 PM »
i agree the only person i think the only person they are pushing good right now is Ryback, they started him off as this unstoppable face who got over with the kids, then proved he could lose, and is now giving him a run as a heel against Cena which will get him over with the adult fans, all he has to work on now is his mic skills

then you got people like Ziggler and Ryder
Ziggler should of been champion a long time ago or should of atleast had a lengthy interconinental title rune, but instead they make him job and give him the strap without really ever beating anyone, which makes him hard to be a "credible" champion... but Ziggler has everything going for him from the looks, to mic skills to in ring ability, its just how he holds the strap is whats really gonna make him

then you got Ryder who was the most over new superstar last year and they did shit with him, they make him look like as ass with AJ, they milked his gimmick but never got a real push, if he did he would be a top draw for sure atleast in the US title or Intercontinental title aspect, now for him to really be a credible guy he'd have to drop the stupid gimmick that made him and just be himself kind of like what Stone cold/ Rock did... which will either make him or break him, until then he will always just be another gimmick wrestler

being a fan i guess you just have to accept that things arent like they are back in the golden days and just enjoy it for what it is now

I couldn't even put faces to the names you mentioned so I can't judge their pushes.

As for the way it was to how it used to be, I get the one fundemental change that makes it harder to know who to push; in the territory days you knew for sure that the guy you want to put a rocket on will get over because he had already gotten over in different markets, big markets, as opposed to getting over in OVW or ROH.
Hogan was a bonafide star before he came back to the WWF. He showed that in AWA. There was little risk involved in taking the belt off of Backlund to give to Hogan. Hogan was already a much bigger draw. And they used Shiek as the middle man because they understood common sense that Backlund still had a large amount of NorthEast fans and you didn't want any resentment carrying over. (Something they forgot huge with Warrior 7 years later).
Looking at it closely Vince was never a long term thinker, or even a sound one. The early WWF days were ran in large part by Jim Barnett and Goerge Scott, the best promotor and booker respectively in the business, and they did so as a favour to Vince Sr. Vince really took what they built and ran it into the ground. Then he got lucky selling smut TV in the Jerry Springer era for 2 to 3 years.

He took the big leap and ran the waves well. I Won't take all credit away from him. It was his vision and he deserves the credit for that. But as far as promoting and booking he made so many ridiculous moves over the years he's lucky the competition was simpy that much stupider.
I mean the amount of times over the years he flushed money down the toilet to statisfy his own ego; First by not running with Hogan vs Flair, then by letting Vader flop right out of the gate, then the WCW invasion angle, then RVD, and then Goldberg vs Austin.

These events pretty much write themselves. All you have to do is not go out of your way to screw it up, and he did so every time.
And even when his ego isn't in question, and it's a guy that became a star under him, he still pulls the rug out from under them at the worst times. I remember Shelton BEnjamin a few years back about to get over huge fueding with Evolution. The crowd was really getting behind him. So Vince squashed him a few times and then took him off TV.

But I don't assume Shleton would have become the next Rock or Austin. However I remember watching a Rumble a few years back and CM Punk was the first guy in, and the room I was watching it in was filled with either old time fans who didn't know him, or non fans, but they were really getting behind the guy. The stage was set for him to win the Rumble, and I garauntee everyone in that room and across America would have been anticipating seeing him at Mania to the point where word of mouth would have really made a differece. Instead they dump him out mid way through the Rumble and that's it.

My friends told me that since then they built him to the top, but now I hear he lost to Taker at Mania. What a joke that is. Yeah I get the Taker legacy of being undefeated at Mania. I also remember the Andre legacy, although false, of never being pinned. Can you imagine if he had beaten Hogan at WM3?

At the very least, you can keep the streak going by having Taker go over perrenial mid-carders or old stars. You don't bury the new guys, that you want to push, to put over a guy you don't sell anymore.

It's the equivolent of Ford putting out a 2014 Mustang commercial where the 2014 Mustang loses a race to the 1965 Mustang. It's simply bad marketing and bad economics, and it's something you learn in the 101 classes of each of those subjects.

But like I said, it's a genre of entertainment that will always have fans and as long as the competition is avoiding the basic rulers of business more than Vince is, the WWE will be on top. But the heap is getting smaller and smaller, so being on top of it means less and less.
sorry but you are wrong & have no clue what you are talking about . one shelton bejamin killed his own push not vince . shelton nerver gave his all in the ring & that was his down fall . cm punk is no new guy . cm punk is longest WWe champion in this era . cm punk did not get buried by undertaker . you don't even know what buried means in wrestling by how you are talking . Undertaker still out sells the whole WWe roster.  no the heap i s not getting smaller at all. you just not up on wrestling or indie wrestling .
 

Hack Wilson - real

Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6987 on: April 14, 2013, 08:53:57 PM »
wrestling is 4 red necks
 

O.G A.Geesta'z

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Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6988 on: April 15, 2013, 11:33:49 AM »
yeah bro you kind of have no valid arguement if you dont even watch todays wrestling... i mean we can sit here all day and talk about how good wrestling use to be back in the days but but if you dont know thats going on today you cant really compare then and now..

and Taker should never lose the streak because its bad for business... Everyone is going to keep wanting to see who Taker will fight next, and Punk wasnt buried by Taker, im pretty sure if Vince was like "Punk your beating Taker clean and defeating the streak" Punk being the humble guy that he is would probably decline doing it anyways... he has alot of respect for old school wrestlers and is a really humble guy

Im pretty sure Punk is going to have a really good push when he comes back after his break he is taking from all his nagging injuries, Punks work ethic is your modern day Bret Hart/Shawn Micheals work ethic back in the day, always puts quality matches and is a work horse...
Once they bring him back im hoping he starts a fued with Ziggler or Daniel Bryan because those guys are the best technical wrestlers right now and have classics waiting to happen
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UKnowWhatItIs: welcome to my traps....game over

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Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6989 on: April 15, 2013, 01:04:52 PM »
^lol at Punk being humble.. This guy thought his shit didn't stink way back when he was in TNA. Its a known fact he ranks himself higher than other wrestlers & is super cocky hence the line "best in the world".
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 01:12:03 PM by UKnowWhatItIs: welcome to my traps....game over »