Author Topic: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)  (Read 177663 times)

O.G A.Geesta'z

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Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6990 on: April 15, 2013, 01:55:08 PM »
^lol at Punk being humble.. This guy thought his shit didn't stink way back when he was in TNA. Its a known fact he ranks himself higher than other wrestlers & is super cocky hence the line "best in the world".

as of right now he is one of the best in the world... why not brag? and he's humble with old school wrestlers or atleast respectful to say the least, he was a big prick back in his indy days and still is... thats why when WWE lets him be himself like he was in the indy days it works...

i hated punk until his infamous "pipe bomb" that got him over with everyone, then when i finally realized his talent i was like damn this dude really is a good wrestler
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Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6991 on: April 15, 2013, 02:16:16 PM »
^Actually he is one of the best right now. I'm a huge fan of Cm Punk but by the way he talks & acts you can tell this guy has a ego problem. He has respect for the older wrestlers BUT thats where his ego takes over. I mean c'mon presented with the option he would've taken the win over The Undertaker & the guy has been disrespecting the shit out of Austin whenever he gets the chance to. I don't know whether its to get Austin in the ring or not but whatever the case he isn't actually all that humble. He will give props where its due but still, he thinks he's superior. Anyways thats how I see it.
 

O.G A.Geesta'z

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Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6992 on: April 15, 2013, 02:27:28 PM »
Austin killed him though in some of his replies too though, that would be an awesome match for wrestlemania Austin vs Punk
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Shallow

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Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6993 on: April 15, 2013, 06:14:33 PM »
yeah bro you kind of have no valid arguement if you dont even watch todays wrestling... i mean we can sit here all day and talk about how good wrestling use to be back in the days but but if you dont know thats going on today you cant really compare then and now..

and Taker should never lose the streak because its bad for business... Everyone is going to keep wanting to see who Taker will fight next, and Punk wasnt buried by Taker, im pretty sure if Vince was like "Punk your beating Taker clean and defeating the streak" Punk being the humble guy that he is would probably decline doing it anyways... he has alot of respect for old school wrestlers and is a really humble guy

Im pretty sure Punk is going to have a really good push when he comes back after his break he is taking from all his nagging injuries, Punks work ethic is your modern day Bret Hart/Shawn Micheals work ethic back in the day, always puts quality matches and is a work horse...
Once they bring him back im hoping he starts a fued with Ziggler or Daniel Bryan because those guys are the best technical wrestlers right now and have classics waiting to happen

I'm not saying Punk should have won. I'm saying they shouldn't even be in the ring togther unless Punk is going to win. This isn't about how wrestling used to be and me complaining, it's about basic business and the concepts that were ignored in WCW are the same concepts being ignored in Punk vs Taker.

Undertaker is a 50 year old man who is no longer a full time wrestler, and shows up once a year to keep a streak going. I have no problem when he goes over HHH or HBK, or if they wanted him to go over Rock or Brock. But CM Punk is a guy you are trying to build your company around. John Cena is to. You want to show the fans, most of them very young, that the guys they are watching now are the best in the world. It's the same in real sport or fake action movie. You suspend your disbelief but you do not want do so for second rate people.

It's like you guys are forgetting what it's like to be a kid watching this. You can make money now having Taker beat Punk because guys our age are still attatched to Taker and can really respect CM Punk's work rate. Kids don't give a shit about that. I remember Hogan/Andre and Hogan/Warrior and worrying about if Hogan can beat this guy. Hogan/Andre was a pretty bad match when I watch it now, and Hogan/Warrior was prety good when I watch it now. I saw no difference at 4 and 7 years old. I just knew Hogan was better than Andre and not better than Warrior. And that's all 5 to 10 year olds know about Punk and Taker. Taker is better than Punk, and it isn't something you want kids thinking about.

Because the time will come when the 5 years olds are 30 and they won't have any streaks to watch because there won't be any Mega Stars to care about.

midwestryder I don't mean the heap of talent. I'm sure there are guys out there a lot better than the average of guys in the past. I mean the heap of market. There is less and less money to make in wrestling. A show here and there can make lot, and inflation can make things look bigger and bigger. But you cannot make as much money as a wrestller on average and wrestling on average does not make as much money. The WWE as of now can still make more than the best single company of 1975, but all the companies combined made more money (adjusting for inflation) than all the companies combined today.

And I'm still up on the scene. NJPW just had one of the best PPVs in a decade and I was watching Punk and Joe in ROH when they were going on. I just cant sit through a WWE show. I also couldn't sit through a WWE show in the Attitude era. I hated it.The difference is I understood they were doing good business in 1999 and I understand they are doing bad business since 2009.

And burying isn't just making someone look bad during the match. It's making someone lose when he should not be losing, no matter how great the match is or how close the guy comes. You can get around it with DQs and ref stoppages because the guy that lost, especially a heel, can lean on the excuse but there is a reason top guys don't ever want to lose in clean finishes. They understand what it does to their marketability. Today's guys don't put up the same stink because they are paid more from salary and don't fully see what a clean finish does to their stock. But a main eventer in the old days that lost clean saw it in the lack of ticket sales at shows he was headlining after a clean loss.

Today they can rotate the main event because the brand is the star, but that is living mainly off fans that are sticking around because they remember the stars. They need more kids and they need to create unbeatable heroes for those kids. And if those unbeatable heroes are losing matches to guys their father's used to watch it hurts the product.
 

O.G A.Geesta'z

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Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6994 on: April 15, 2013, 07:45:59 PM »
well im glad you didnt watch Raw tonight
every young talent with a bright future basically got burried today lol

Cesaro lost to Kingston in a decent match and lost to the US title who both are respectivly great talents, hopefully a good feud from from them
Barrett put over Truth but didnt lose the IC title
Kaitlin lost to the bella's in a non title match
and Dolph lost to Swagger in a non title match as his first match after becoming WHC

jesus christ im thinking what a way to bury your young talent WWE
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Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6995 on: April 15, 2013, 09:04:15 PM »
I was checking the wrestlezone site 2day cause of the tragedy in boston 2 find out what wrestlers would think about it, especially John Cena who is from MA.  No topics on it yet BUT...there was an interesting topic that was put on.  Makes you think  :eh:  what coulda been different in wrestling had something else happened.  If Hulk Hogan didn't appear to be the 3rd outsider at 1996 bash at the beach.

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/271053-scott-hall-reveals-who-would-have-been-the-qthird-manq-if-hulk-hogan-hadnt-shown-up-in-time

Reading this type of news, kinda makes me wish that hitman woulda went to wcw in 1996.  Be the 3rd man & find a way to bring owen along so he'd be alive 2day.  Maybe if there was a time machine & somebody woulda told Bret what would go down for him & his family in the late 90's.  Maybe he woulda went then, would make a good storyline on why he left wwf for wcw.  Wrestlemania 12, lost in overtime vs. HBK.  That match looked like a screwjob then.  Maybe hbk has a feud with austin, austin turns face vs hbk at wrestlemania 13.  Hitman goes against Sting at starcade 97.  Most definitely woulda been a better match than Hogan/Sting starcade match. 
   Some would say that sting being the 3rd outsider member wouldn't work since he's the ultimate face.  Plus hogan would be the hero again  ::)
 

O.G A.Geesta'z

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Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6996 on: April 15, 2013, 09:23:52 PM »
Hogan would of burried the NWO if he wasnt apart of it... thank god he was smart enough to know it made business sense
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Shallow

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Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6997 on: April 16, 2013, 07:24:50 AM »
Hogan would of burried the NWO if he wasnt apart of it... thank god he was smart enough to know it made business sense

Exactly. There is no way the nWo even makes it to Starcade 97 if Hogan was going against them. It would have ended with Hogan beating Bret at Starcade 96.

And that actually might have been a good thing for WCW long term. The nWo with Bret would have spread like wildfire, just like it did with Hogan (a bit less because of Hogans stature as the ultimate baby face), and then having old man Hogan, Savage, and probably Ed Leslie, beat the nWo would distinguish that fire and leave such a bad taste in everyone's mouth the company would have been forced to change direction earlier. DDP would have had to have been pushed faster, Goldberg's streak would have been starting, Benoit wouldn't have been as held back, because Nash would have been buried. Hall and Nash probably would have been back in the WWF by 98 when Waltman came back and joined the D-X storyline.

Had WCW not turned into the Russo smut fest, and that may still have happened, it most likely still would have existed today. Although it may have been nothing more than a slightly better TNA.
 

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Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6998 on: April 16, 2013, 08:43:22 AM »
If only the nWo never added Bischoff. I think that was when the nWo went too far. I remember seeing Bischoff joining the nWo and changing the channel. Bischoff believed too much in it to completely bury it with Hogan, Savage and Brutus. The nWo was fresh, and it Hart joined instead of Hogan, it still would have been big. Also remember that the last time anyone saw Hogan was in the god awful Dungeon of Doom match were the Mega Powers defeated the Dungeon or Doom AND the 4 Horsemen. Maybe Hogan would have stayed away for a bit while longer while the nWo runs wild on WCW, allowing the nWo to gain enough momentum so that Bischoff still felt invested enough to join. Then Bischoff join would have made sense. But when you had Ted DiBiase and Vincent, there was no reason at all to have Bischoff join. Oh well. Let's live in the now.

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Shallow

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Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #6999 on: April 16, 2013, 10:18:12 AM »
If only the nWo never added Bischoff. I think that was when the nWo went too far. I remember seeing Bischoff joining the nWo and changing the channel. Bischoff believed too much in it to completely bury it with Hogan, Savage and Brutus. The nWo was fresh, and it Hart joined instead of Hogan, it still would have been big. Also remember that the last time anyone saw Hogan was in the god awful Dungeon of Doom match were the Mega Powers defeated the Dungeon or Doom AND the 4 Horsemen. Maybe Hogan would have stayed away for a bit while longer while the nWo runs wild on WCW, allowing the nWo to gain enough momentum so that Bischoff still felt invested enough to join. Then Bischoff join would have made sense. But when you had Ted DiBiase and Vincent, there was no reason at all to have Bischoff join. Oh well. Let's live in the now.

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I think it would have half buried itself, and Hogan's return as "the man that built the company that is invading" would have cemented the beginning of the end. I was joking about Ed Leslie. In reality it would have most likely have been Hogan, Luger, Sting, and Savage vs Hall, Nash, Bret, and fake Sting at War Games. Sting cleans house and Hogan chases after him, then Bret gets the win on Savage. Hogan then gets the win on Bret at Starcade and a grey area Crow Sting vs baby face Hogan gets built for Starcade 97.

Bret, Hall and Nash simply wouldn't be able to carry the nWo they way Hollywood Hulk Hogan did. He carried it too far but Bret is half the talent when it comes to marketing himself as a star and with out the Go Canada fire behind him he wouldn't work so well as a heel. Nash could never really get over on his own, and Hall would have been in and out of rehab. The concept that Hulk Hogan became a bad guy gave that company new life and the WCW milked it for all they could and then even after they couldn't anymore. No way does the nWo last until 98.
 

M Dogg™

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Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #7000 on: April 16, 2013, 10:26:56 AM »
If only the nWo never added Bischoff. I think that was when the nWo went too far. I remember seeing Bischoff joining the nWo and changing the channel. Bischoff believed too much in it to completely bury it with Hogan, Savage and Brutus. The nWo was fresh, and it Hart joined instead of Hogan, it still would have been big. Also remember that the last time anyone saw Hogan was in the god awful Dungeon of Doom match were the Mega Powers defeated the Dungeon or Doom AND the 4 Horsemen. Maybe Hogan would have stayed away for a bit while longer while the nWo runs wild on WCW, allowing the nWo to gain enough momentum so that Bischoff still felt invested enough to join. Then Bischoff join would have made sense. But when you had Ted DiBiase and Vincent, there was no reason at all to have Bischoff join. Oh well. Let's live in the now.

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I think it would have half buried itself, and Hogan's return as "the man that built the company that is invading" would have cemented the beginning of the end. I was joking about Ed Leslie. In reality it would have most likely have been Hogan, Luger, Sting, and Savage vs Hall, Nash, Bret, and fake Sting at War Games. Sting cleans house and Hogan chases after him, then Bret gets the win on Savage. Hogan then gets the win on Bret at Starcade and a grey area Crow Sting vs baby face Hogan gets built for Starcade 97.

Bret, Hall and Nash simply wouldn't be able to carry the nWo they way Hollywood Hulk Hogan did. He carried it too far but Bret is half the talent when it comes to marketing himself as a star and with out the Go Canada fire behind him he wouldn't work so well as a heel. Nash could never really get over on his own, and Hall would have been in and out of rehab. The concept that Hulk Hogan became a bad guy gave that company new life and the WCW milked it for all they could and then even after they couldn't anymore. No way does the nWo last until 98.

You might be right. But I think the coolness that the Outsiders did bring was within itself a run until Starcade '97. With Hogan though, I really wish the nWo never included Bischoff. that was over kill. The nWo to me should have stayed the original Syxx (get it) members with DiBiase and Vincent getting involved. You had Hogan, Hall, Nash, the Giant, Fake Sting and Syxx, with DiBiase and Vincent financing the whole thing, that was enough to be believable.

Related note, the wrestlers best known as the Godfather was suppose to be the nWo enforcer. Charles Wright was contacted to join WCW and be the nWo enforcer in 1996, but was later told by Bischoff that he wasn't needed anymore. Turns out Virgil/Vincent, Mike Jones, took the role for a third of the cost as Charles Wright. Now imagine the nWo actually being all WWF wrestlers who jumped. Bret Hart, Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Sean Waltman and Charles Wright with Ted DiBiase as manager. They might have had to lean on DiBiase more in terms of the mouth piece, but that's an interesting roster to think about.
 

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Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #7001 on: April 16, 2013, 01:30:41 PM »
I agree that the nWo should never have expanded the way it did but I Bischoff wasa great heel and a great move. Your nWo should have been at it's biggest; Hogan, Nash, Hall, Syxx, Giant, Buff and Norton, and Bischoff. When Bischoff joins he says he is the man in charge of the money of WCW, as ordered by Ted Turner, and anyone that doesn't join nWo will not get paid. This is how and why Giant joins.

With most of the roster in the ring Bischoff gives everyone else the ultimatem. The top guys all stay strong but the young guys would be torn because they want to make a living. Dusty would be the WCW old timer trying to keep everyone together. This would all be around the real life Time Warner takeover of of Turner TV in October 96. The answer comes when Ric Flair interupts Bischoff and says Ted Turner made you the boss but Ted Turner isn't the man in charge. WCW is now recently acquired by big business and there's a lot of moving and shaking going on. Ric says he reached out to an old friend who bought up a huge amount of Time Warner stock and appointed himself the new man in charge of WCW; this is where Ted Dibiase comes in to the picture.
The idea is that with Hogan turned heel you have all his old enemies turning face out of sheer hatred for him. It already happened with Heenan and Flair, and Dibiase is a logical step. He gets lost joining the nWo, and never really looks good standing with Hogan, so I think he'd be better face.

From here we get the War Games, with the fake Sting joining earlier as SDting wanting to get paid, before Dibiasi, and that plays out the same way. Starcade 96 is Hogan going over Luger. And Crow Sting emerging the same way he did. The difference I would make from here is War Games 97 being the Road Warriors and Ultimate Warrior getting Sting to join them going against Hall, Nash, Giant, and fake Sting. Hogan being "injured". Sting wins by beating fake Sting and has his warriors in the back keeping the nWo from interfering for Starcade 97 and beats Hogan 123 (with out the fake fast 3 count).

The rest of the card is

DDP and Booker over the Outsiders
Dibiase over Bischoff
Jericho over Syxx for the Cruiserweight Title
Buff and Norton over the Steiners for the tag titles (the young WCW guys of the nWo winning and later in the year joining with heel turned Big Poppa Pump)
Benoit over Giant in a David vs Goliath match
The next year you have an established DDP, Benoit, Goldberg on the way, and Sting vs Bret being built to Starcade 98.

But I'm just daydreaming outloud.
 

O.G A.Geesta'z

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Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #7002 on: April 16, 2013, 08:41:22 PM »
C'mon lets be real... NWO wouldnt have been half as fun if Bret or Sting joined... Hogan was THE man, i hate him now but as a kid he was every kids dream. i was a big Razor/Bret mark growing up especially Bret but even then looking back i dont think it would of went over well, Hogan had all the kids on his side but the adults really didnt care for him too much until he joined NWO then he became way more cooler and the adult fan base and kids both liked NWO because of it

Its like nowadays just like what they did with Ryback turning him heel against Cena, its really just to get over with all the adults that hate Cena and wanna see him lose because Ryback is well over with the kids

If Cena would go heel and join the Shield lets say... he could make the Shield alot cooler and get respect from the adults the way Hogan did, because lets face it Cena is the new Hulk, kids love him but the adult fan base might respect him but dont like him yet (atleast thats how i feel) only way to get over it to do what Hogan did and do whats cool and be a bad guy for once

thats why Punk is so over with the adult fan base way more then the kids, i know so many people going for him to beat Takers streak, and i personally like CM Punk as a heel and face because he can do a good job at both, same with Randy Orton, Lesnar, Mr. H's, HBK and the list goes on

all Cena has to do is put himself over that hump but it will never happen until he's considered an old school wrestler like all the others
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Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #7003 on: April 17, 2013, 07:15:10 AM »
For a long time, the Shield never attacked Cena. I had really hope that it was because Cena was behind the Shield the whole time. I was hoping that Cena would be using the Shield as sort of a Superman gone wrong story line, like when Superman goes rogue and then sets up a dictatorship. I was hoping the WWE was doing that with Cena. Then they exposed Heyman paying the Shield and Cena was attacked by the Shield and I realized they'd never be that smart.
 

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Re: Sticky: The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
« Reply #7004 on: April 17, 2013, 11:44:20 AM »
For a long time, the Shield never attacked Cena. I had really hope that it was because Cena was behind the Shield the whole time. I was hoping that Cena would be using the Shield as sort of a Superman gone wrong story line, like when Superman goes rogue and then sets up a dictatorship. I was hoping the WWE was doing that with Cena. Then they exposed Heyman paying the Shield and Cena was attacked by the Shield and I realized they'd never be that smart.


It's a cool idea but too soon I think. You don't want his core fan base to be heartbroken because he still is the undeniable top face of the company, and the fans that love him are going to hate him, and not really get behind the baby face to oppose him the way they get behind Cena. When Hogan turned the kids that loved him were already grown up enough to love the turn, and the kids that got behind Sting were never as in to Hogan as the kids are into Cena right now.

Look at the Austin heel turn. Albiet it was done poorly, but it more turned people off rather than turned people against Austin. Timing is key.