What did you guys think of the Dre-produced "Nightmares" ?

[jeromechickenbone]

Damn, did you modify this post?  I didn't see the all the other stuff outside of what I originally quoted and posted.  Maybe I just overlooked it...

Yes, I modified my post while you were quoting the original version.

But just so you know i'm not ducking it, i'll reply.  Yes, there have been songs about / for the ladies since way back in the day.  My point was that MC's back then didn't sell their soul to do it.  Take Big Daddy Kane - he could do the illest shit like "Set It Off" and could turn around and do shit like "The Day You're Mine",  "Smooth Operator", or "Children R the Future".  That was all part of his arsenal.  But regardless of the subject matter, he was still one of the illest MC's ever.  He didn't sacrifice his art when he made these songs - and that made them even better.   If you don't see the difference between that and "Just A Lil Bit" by 50 then there's no point in furthering this conversation.

LL, Slick Rick, Heavy D, Tribe, Pete Rock & CL, even fuckin Candyman.  They all made songs for the ladies but still stayed true to the art. 

But see, this is the problem...what constitutes "selling one's soul"?  This is still based on an assumption that no self-respecting hip-hop artist would be doing the tracks you hear on the radio unless somebody else made them do it.  In the case of 50 Cent, how did he sell his soul?  Are you saying that he never did club tracks/love songs before he became popular?  You know as well as I do that the first single off "Power of the Dollar" was supposed to be "Thug Love" with Beyonce before the album got shelved.  Placing 50 Cent in the same category as Big Diddy Kane or Slick Rick is equally absurd simply because 50 ain't the same type of rapper as them.  The point is, 50 has found his niche doing the kind of music he does, and you may not feel it (and I don't always feel it either), but if he finds something he's good at, why does he have to get hated on for it?

But to me, it's no more unreasonable for 50 to do "Candy Shop" than for Biggie to do "Big Poppa" (and you are not likely to catch me listening to either of those songs - I usually skip "Big Poppa" when I listen to "Ready to Die").  Biggie did smooth player shit, 50 does smooth player shit today.  It ain't my kinda music, but they did it well and they made themselves dough doing it.  Good for them.

LOL, we can't compare 50 to Big Daddy Kane or Slick Rick, but we can compare him to LL?  You're killing me dog. They're all hip hop artists right?  They all made "tracks for the ladies".  You can't disqualify the comparison just because it proves your arguement holds no water (but it was a good try).

And you're beginning to take the arguement in circles.  We're going back to why 50 gets hated on...You conceded that I don't hate 50, but yet you keep asking why he gets hated on.  I don't hate dude, I don't know dude.  I do know, that he has put out wack ass music lately, and I don't support it.  And for the record, I'll usually skip Big Poppa as well...but it's only because i've heard that song so many times, not because it's wack.  And go ahead and put that in the same category as Candy Shop, but Candy Shop will NEVER be regarded as a classic like Big Poppa is.  If you think it is/will be, then I can do nothing but 

And there you go with admitting you don't like the music, but hey AT LEAST THEY GOT PAID!  You're discussing the business aspect, i'm discussing the artistic aspect.  I guess you're a fan of a guy like David Allen Coe (go google him) too huh?  He's a country artist from back in the day that basically made a living making songs talking about "killing and hanging niggers".  Yeah, it's not YOUR kind of shit, but hey he was good at it, and made some dough at it. GOOD FOR HIM!

[Eihtball]

LOL, we can't compare 50 to Big Daddy Kane or Slick Rick, but we can compare him to LL?  You're killing me dog. They're all hip hop artists right?  They all made "tracks for the ladies".  You can't disqualify the comparison just because it proves your arguement holds no water (but it was a good try).

Haha, I like your self-assured tone, but don't get overconfident cause I ain't done with you yet, young blood.

Anyway, yes, it is much harder to compare 50 to Kane or Rick, but you can compare him more readily to LL.  Why?  Because there is a legitimate comparison to make there, which is that they both found their niche doing tracks for ladies while simultaneously doing tough-guy B-boy posturing.  Both Kane and Rick may have tried the player shit as well and had hits with it, but they had their niches more in Afrocentrism (in Kane's case) and storytelling (Slick Rick's case).

To make my point simpler, I'll just say that 50 has found his niche doing what he does, and those cats found their niche doing what they do.  I can't fault anyone for finding something they're good at and sticking to it if it works for them.

And you're beginning to take the arguement in circles.  We're going back to why 50 gets hated on...You conceded that I don't hate 50, but yet you keep asking why he gets hated on.  I don't hate dude, I don't know dude.  I do know, that he has put out wack ass music lately, and I don't support it.  And for the record, I'll usually skip Big Poppa as well...but it's only because i've heard that song so many times, not because it's wack.  And go ahead and put that in the same category as Candy Shop, but Candy Shop will NEVER be regarded as a classic like Big Poppa is.  If you think it is/will be, then I can do nothing but 

You may not hate 50, period, but you do say that you hate on his music.  My argument is that his music is not as "wack" as you want me to believe.

"Candy Shop" a classic?  I dunno, time will tell, but 12 years ago, I would've never expected "Big Poppa" to become a classic either.  I liked Biggie's music (in spite of my tendency to sleep on most of the East Coast back then), but I honestly didn't regard him as one of the greatest hip-hop artists alive, and I don't think many other cats at that time did either (and maybe his death had something to do with that, since hip-hop has always had a tendency to deify its fallen soldiers).  However, I think that whether or not you believe it, it is true that 50 Cent will be remembered as an important artist in hip-hop history.  Of course, whether or not he'll go out on a positive or negative note remains to be seen.

And there you go with admitting you don't like the music, but hey AT LEAST THEY GOT PAID!  You're discussing the business aspect, i'm discussing the artistic aspect.  I guess you're a fan of a guy like David Allen Coe (go google him) too huh?  He's a country artist from back in the day that basically made a living making songs talking about "killing and hanging niggers".  Yeah, it's not YOU'RE kind of shit, but hey he was good at it, and made some dough at it. GOOD FOR HIM!

I'm discussing BOTH business and artistry, since (contrary to popular belief), those are more closely related than you seem to believe.  The mainstream may not be the best judge of good music, but generally speaking, I believe that if an artist manages to stay relevent for a long period of time in the music world, it proves that they have some intrinsic value beyond just catchy melodies and hooks or an album cover that makes white girls' pussies get wet.  Just because I don't like something doesn't mean it's not good...that seems to be a concept you have never grasped.  Just like when you insisted to me that "Outta Control" should have done better on the charts than "Candy Shop" because YOU said so.

And as far as David Allen Coe goes, I care less.  Plenty of rappers (especially Ice Cube) have made lyrics where they talk about "bucking tha devil" and they got away with it, so I ain't about to perpetuate a double-standard by saying white musicians don't get freedom of speech simply for singing about something I don't like.  So yeah, good for David Allen Coe, good for Cube, whatever.  If they make racist music but it sounds good and reasonates with people, more power to them.