Author Topic: US storm over book on "Israel" lobby  (Read 205 times)

CantCme213

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US storm over book on "Israel" lobby
« on: November 28, 2007, 08:03:39 AM »
The power of America's "Jewish lobby" is said to be legendary.
http://www.news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7104030.stm

Commentators the world over refer to it, as though it were a well-established fact that US Jews wield far more influence than their numbers (2% of the population) would suggest.
But this presumed influence is also a delicate issue in the US, and is rarely analysed.

How does the lobby work? Is its power truly legendary, or just a legend?
Two US academics, John Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago and Stephen Walt of Harvard, have set out to answer those questions, and triggered a firestorm of controversy as a result.
Their book The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy, which builds on a 2006 article in the London Review of Books, says the reasons for US support for Israel need to be explained.


America spends $3bn a year in largely military assistance - one-sixth of its direct aid budget - to help a prosperous, nuclear-armed country, and strongly backs Israel in negotiations on Middle East peace.
But according to Mearsheimer and Walt, the US gets remarkably little in return.

They reject the argument that Israel is a key ally in America's "war on terror".
On the contrary, they contend, US patronage of Israel fuels militant anger - as well as fostering resentment in Arab countries that control vital oil supplies.

One-sided
The authors also reject the common view of Israel as a democratic outpost that needs protection from deadly enemies.
It is indeed a vibrant democracy, they say, but also a regional giant ready to use its considerable firepower against civilians.



If both these arguments are weak, they say, the real reason behind US support for Israel is domestic - the activities of the American Israel Political Action Committee (Aipac), the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), and like-minded groups and think tanks.
Mearsheimer and Walt do not talk of a "Jewish lobby", as these groups do not speak for all US Jews and include many non-Jews, but of an "Israel lobby", whose main aim, they say, is to convince America that its interests are aligned with those of the Israeli state.
The book analyses the lobby's sources of influence - notably its financial muscle and the reluctance of critics to speak out.
Pro-Israeli contributions to US campaigns dwarf those of Arab-Americans or Muslim groups.

Like other interest groups, the Israel lobby also influences debate by rounding on politicians and commentators who take positions it does not like - but it does it particularly effectively, according to Mearsheimer and Walt.
Those who might think of questioning US support for Israel know they are in for a fight, making it more trouble than it is worth.
The resulting lack of discussion, the book says, has skewed US policies across the Middle East.
Most controversially, it argues that the lobby played an important role in the Iraq war.

No conspiracy
Perhaps not surprisingly, Mearsheimer and Walt have unleashed a torrent of criticism - though not from Aipac, which has made no comment.



"Their conclusions are classic anti-Semitic canards - such as control of foreign policy against the interest of the US, the Jews controlling the media and getting America into war," ADL director Abraham Foxman told the BBC News website.
After reading the original article, Mr Foxman wrote a book-length rebuttal entitled The Deadliest Lies: The Israel Lobby and The Myth of Jewish Control.

Many attacks have been highly personal.
In a fierce critique of their scholarship, Israeli historian Benny Morris wrote in the New Republic of the original article: "Were 'The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy' an actual person, I would have to say that he did not have a single honest bone in his body."
Virtually all reviews of the book in the mainstream US press have been negative.
"They have often misrepresented our arguments badly or tried to smear us by either saying or hinting that we are anti-Semitic," Mr Walt told the BBC News website.

He and Mr Mearsheimer deny recycling old fantasies of Jewish conspiracies ? their book repeatedly states that pro-Israeli lobbying is not secretive, but conforms to the open rules of America's democratic system.
The authors regard their excoriation in the US press as a sign of the lobby's effectiveness, and point out that reviews abroad have been much more favourable.

"This in some way confirms our basic argument that it's much easier to talk about this subject outside the United States than we do inside the US," he says.

Cause and effect
However some of Mearsheimer and Walt's US critics have been less vitriolic and harder to dismiss as angry polemic."
Robert Lieberman, a Columbia University political scientist, argues that they overstate the lobby's financial power.



Mearsheimer and Walt cite cases of members of Congress losing their seats after running afoul of pro-Israeli groups which then bankrolled their opponents.

But Mr Lieberman says the contributions involved are unlikely to make a difference and the book fails to establish a clear link between lobby money and victory.

Senate Minority leader Tom Daschle lost his seat in 2004 despite the fact that he got more pro-Israel funding than any candidate that year.
"For any anecdote they come up with, you can come up with an anecdote that demonstrates the opposite," Mr Lieberman says.

Perhaps the most contentious argument in the book is the direct causal link it tries to establish between lobby activity and US Middle East policies.
But political preferences can be influenced by any number of factors, such as popular pressure, party politics or heartfelt conviction.
Although Mearsheimer and Walt do their best to discard those alternative explanations for the US pro-Israeli stance, many are unconvinced.

"Is this the manipulation of a tiny group, or is this politicians not wanting to take a stand that is unpopular with the broader public?" Walter Russell Mead, of the Council on Foreign Relations, told the BBC News website.
Mr Mead - who wrote a lengthy critique of the book in the journal Foreign Affairs - also says Mearsheimer and Walt give too vague a definition of the lobby to make any credible conclusion about its impact.

Opening up
The fact that the book invites criticism, however, is also a strength. Its scholarly, dispassionate tone is meant to encourage a debate.
"Reasonable people can disagree and one of the reasons we want to have a discussion is to get issues out in the open so people can talk about them," Mr Walt says.

Tony Judt - a prominent historian and critic of Israel - does not accept every point made by Mearsheimer and Walt, but he credits them with lifting a taboo.

The main effect of the lobby, he says, has been self-censorship. "There are people out there who are anti-Semitic obviously, and you don't want to find yourself in their company, so you end up saying nothing," he says.
Mr Judt himself is not afraid to speak out, but he has to tread more carefully when he criticises Israeli policies in the US than he does in Israel itself.

"I have written articles in Haaretz that no American newspapers would touch," he says.

In this context, he adds, Mearsheimer and Walt's book is an "enormous act of intellectual courage".

"They gained nothing from it, but the community has really gained something because with each little step like that, the conversation opens up a bit more."



Heres the book:

http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Lobby-U-S-Foreign-Policy/dp/0374177724/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196262014&sr=1-1
 

King Tech Quadafi

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Re: US storm over book on "Israel" lobby
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2007, 08:09:27 AM »
did you actually read this book? and if so, was it before or after you came on here sucking Israels dick?

legitimate question
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll
 

CantCme213

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Re: US storm over book on "Israel" lobby
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2007, 09:32:22 AM »
did you actually read this book? and if so, was it before or after you came on here sucking Israels dick?

legitimate question

I havent read it yet ! But Im going to do so when I get it.

WTF ! Bitch boy I dont give a Shit about Pisrael ! I support Palestine ! Like every human with a little bit of sense would do.


So what do u guys think of AIPAC ?  I want to know what americans think about it.

To me it seems like that after the fall of the soviet union , these guys went over to the US and are now exploiding them.
U guys know that soviet union was the job of jews, right ? Stalin, lenin , trotzky and them were jews.
Their mission was to destroy the Czar (Christian) Kingdom.
 

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Re: US storm over book on "Israel" lobby
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2007, 10:24:35 AM »
Old news. Though the book overlooks the breadth of the so called pro-Israel lobby. It's far greater than a number of Jewish organizations and in fact there is nothing pro-Israel about it. Chomsky called this kind of support for Israel, I'm more or less quoting, support for Israel's moral degeneration and ultimate destruction.
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

virtuoso

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Re: US storm over book on "Israel" lobby
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2007, 12:36:18 PM »

Hmm well it's a massively powerful zionist lobby but I agree with you, they are not doing this for the benefit of Israel. Likewise those American neocons are massively powerful and yet are not working for the benefit of America, all of their evil deviousness has been for the benefit of major corporations, who are now so entirely powerful that government has just become a token gesture to the people. The governments purpose has been only as a source for ultimate blame and then when the people have had enough another carbon copy government is installed with the same agenda.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 12:39:26 PM by virtuoso »
 

King Tech Quadafi

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Re: US storm over book on "Israel" lobby
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2007, 01:08:11 PM »
did you actually read this book? and if so, was it before or after you came on here sucking Israels dick?

legitimate question

I havent read it yet ! But Im going to do so when I get it.

WTF ! Bitch boy I dont give a Shit about Pisrael ! I support Palestine ! Like every human with a little bit of sense would do.


So what do u guys think of AIPAC ?  I want to know what americans think about it.

To me it seems like that after the fall of the soviet union , these guys went over to the US and are now exploiding them.
U guys know that soviet union was the job of jews, right ? Stalin, lenin , trotzky and them were jews.
Their mission was to destroy the Czar (Christian) Kingdom.


"GO ISRAEL! GOOD LOOKING OUT!"
- Cunt 213

http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?topic=159860.0

seems like you wanna suck a dick and eat your pussy too...

Bitch boy, train of thought is not welcoming to you. You thought train of thought was your friend. till one day, your mouth wrote a cheque ya ass couldnt cash. and now bitch boy, im gonna degrade your pussy ass, run you up out this biznatch
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll
 

AndrE16686

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Re: US storm over book on "Israel" lobby
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2007, 09:33:46 PM »
they are not doing this for the benefit of Israel. Likewise those American neocons are massively powerful and yet are not working for the benefit of America, all of their evil deviousness has been for the benefit of major corporations, who are now so entirely powerful that government has just become a token gesture to the people

yeah word thats right when you look at it in the context of "how does giving Israel money and arms benefit the average American?'

These dudes got the whole world to look over, not just Israel or the US, they want to shape the future to their vision of the world. The US cannot trust China (or any other power bloc) not to try to gain dominance and vice versa. Its a mindset that is rational from an objective perspective, but not from the subjective (i.e the Iraqi kid or the average party-going Iranian teenager). Its a system not confined to anybody in particular or under any individual's control, a corporation is it's own person. It is the snake, curling in on itself and biting it's tail.  When you look at the World the problems appear unsolveable, suffering and evil appears to prevail and the God in Genisis told us when we picked the fruit that we doomed to fuck ourselves up eventually ("You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die"). However, my point is, to focus on the subjective, that is the world we do have the power to change. Not in a selfish sense, focus on the subjective, but help yourself first so you can help others. I mean think, why didn't Jesus start a political party and launch an election campaign to become the king of the holy land, or create an army and wage a coupe like Ben Hur was expecting? He did none of that, he focused on the World around him and infront of him, what he immediately deal with and felt, thats why he was the perfect king, if we offered him the US presidency today, chances are he would not accept it and instead rule barefoot. The power of gods in you homies.


heres some pictures I made in 2003, now posted here for your viewing pleasure:








 



 

CantCme213

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Re: US storm over book on "Israel" lobby
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2007, 09:36:09 AM »
did you actually read this book? and if so, was it before or after you came on here sucking Israels dick?

legitimate question

I havent read it yet ! But Im going to do so when I get it.

WTF ! Bitch boy I dont give a Shit about Pisrael ! I support Palestine ! Like every human with a little bit of sense would do.


So what do u guys think of AIPAC ?  I want to know what americans think about it.

To me it seems like that after the fall of the soviet union , these guys went over to the US and are now exploiding them.
U guys know that soviet union was the job of jews, right ? Stalin, lenin , trotzky and them were jews.
Their mission was to destroy the Czar (Christian) Kingdom.


"GO ISRAEL! GOOD LOOKING OUT!"
- Cunt 213

http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?topic=159860.0

seems like you wanna suck a dick and eat your pussy too...

Bitch boy, train of thought is not welcoming to you. You thought train of thought was your friend. till one day, your mouth wrote a cheque ya ass couldnt cash. and now bitch boy, im gonna degrade your pussy ass, run you up out this biznatch

ey Queen Techno , STFU boy.

I dont like ARABS. ITs true. But I do like them Palestinians. They good people.

But some of these Khazars are far worse than Arabs.
 

King Tech Quadafi

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Re: US storm over book on "Israel" lobby
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2007, 04:54:58 PM »
Why are you blowing kisses to males in this forum?
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll