Author Topic: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out  (Read 568 times)

Turf Hitta

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2008, 02:41:38 PM »
Like I said, if God punishes people for being the way he made them (susceptible to sin/unconvinced of the existence of God) then he is a vile and disgusting god. Thats like raising a child and telling him all through his childhood that he's worthless and will grow up to be a loser, providing an environment shitty enough to ensure it happens that way and then beating him constantly for it when he does in fact establish himself as a loser. Who was it that said something like "People were lookin for God but found religion instead"
 

QuietTruth

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2008, 03:14:47 PM »
^ Free will nigga. Unconvinced of the existence of God? It's your own mind homie, in The Bible, it tells you what you should do. He tells us to believe in him. You didn't install it in your brain, free will.

He punishes you for the decisions you make.
 

Sikotic™

Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2008, 03:55:58 PM »
One question every Christian I debate with refuses to answer: If God is the Creator of ALL and he's a LOVING god, then how come he created evil?
 

QuietTruth

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2008, 04:03:20 PM »
Yo, I was reading The Bible the other day, just to look back on it and it's harsh. It seemed all demanding and shit. Real forceful. Jesus seems more 'loving' now. Lol. I always saw it the other way kinda. Ahh, I don't know. Maybe it was my mood and how I was reading it in mind. Who knows.
 

Turf Hitta

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2008, 06:21:01 PM »
^ Free will nigga. Unconvinced of the existence of God? It's your own mind homie, in The Bible, it tells you what you should do. He tells us to believe in him. You didn't install it in your brain, free will.

He punishes you for the decisions you make.

Free will is what makes you susceptible to break his rules. For the third time, God will punish you for being the way he made you. Doesn't sound like a loving god to me.
 

QuietTruth

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2008, 07:04:03 PM »
But it also makes you susceptible to following his rules. What you think everytime you do somethang bad you gon get punished? It ain't like that.
 

Turf Hitta

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2008, 08:33:09 PM »
But it also makes you susceptible to following his rules. What you think everytime you do somethang bad you gon get punished? It ain't like that.

OK, well why wouldn't God just make you do the right thing anyway if he has the power to? Just to give himself a chance to put somebody in hell. He gets off on making people suffer. But this is a loving god right?
 

Elevz

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2008, 03:07:23 AM »
You misunderstood me, when I said God wants perfection I didn’t mean he wants us to know everything knowing.

So according to God, it is not perfect to know everything? Knowing everything is nothing better than to be completely ignorant? Mental development is not a virtue according to God?

I meant perfect in the sense of sinless, God wants us to be sinless, [...] I meant that no human being is perfect (sinless not omniscient or omnipotent,) to be sinless is to be without spot or blemish.

Doesn't it require mental development and intellectual insight to know what is wrong and what is not? Isn't it true that the more you know, the better you'll be able to operate righteously in a complex world?

yes everyone has committed sin (you and I), everyone has either lied, stolen, coveted, etc therefore we are sinners, people don’t consider things like lying or stealing wrong or “that bad” but God does because God is holy and sinners can not enter the kingdom of God sin has to be removed from the record of the sinner in order to enter heaven.

The only sin I'm apparently guilty of, is not believing in God. And I do not believe that's a sin; it's one of the things I believe in, and I don't believe that my beliefs are sinful. I have no reason to suspect that.
Depending on your definition of a lie, I don't think I'm a liar, I've never stolen or treated people in a way that goes against my beliefs. Isn't that exactly what a sin is: to be going against your beliefs? To contradict?

That is why God sent his sinless son to die for us because the bible says

“Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins”

We are made perfect through Christ

So Jesus had to become flawed (his blood had to be shed), precisely because he was too perfect?

Jesus didn't invent a cure for cancer. He can't have been perfect, or sinless. Had he used his capacities better, he maybe could have achieved more; he could have made mankind better. For everything he could have done, but didn't do... Strictly speaking, his failing to achieve is sloth. That's a sin, is it not?

When I said Christ sacrificed his life I didn’t mean that he commitied suicide

Definititon of sacrifice: the act of losing or surrendering something as a penalty for a mistake or fault or failure to perform

Its not suicide because first of all Christ didn’t put the nails in his hands and hang himself on the cross,  or asked any one to of that matter, people were out looking for him to kill him and instead of running he admitted that he was the one they were looking for and they took him and killed him.

Second of all Jesus was Gods gift to humanity, Gods word made flesh so therefore Jesus wasn’t a normal man, if Jesus was a natural man his dying on the cross would have been in vain because natural man is sinful.

I didn't intend to imply that Jesus committed suicide. But did Jesus do everything he possibly could to remain alive? No. Did he allow himself to be punished and crucified? Yes. Did he really believe in his own guilt? I don't think so. He just let it happen.
What he did by sacrifising himself, was pointing yet another finger at the dispicable state of men. He thought of himself as being better than that. He thought of the people as being unworthy of his presence (or else he would have tried to avoid his death, don't you think?).
Jesus hated his life among the people. His actions weren't pro life; he let the rulers punish him unjustly. That makes Jesus a sinner, for two reasons:
1) Not standing firm behind his beliefs, thus compromising and flipflopping;
2) Giving up his life.

This is basically the purpose of Jesus (the word of God) Sin entered the world through Adam In order for man to be redeemed of sin a sacrifice had to be made, since everything on earth is tainted with sin God had to enter the physical realm through a spotless/sinless body which he created from his own word, in order to redeem man from sin that body had to take on the sins of the world in order to die go to hell (to take the authority over death that satan stole from man) so that death may be overcome, God was the only that that could overcome death because his is life and cant die.

Jesus didn't succeed, did he? There still are sins around us everywhere. Now, what kind of perfected warrior willfully lets such evil prevail? That's a contradictio in terminis. You can't be perfect and not fight evil, if perfection and evil are opposed. Jesus didn't love mankind, and he didn't love his life, for a good reason: he didn't believe in any of it. He didn't believe in making mankind better, he didn't believe in enhancing life, he didn't believe in curing sins. Instead, he helped mankind to sin. He's the worst kind of disbeliever you'll ever hear about. If he really believed in God's creation, he would have fought for mankind.

I'm sorry to break your hero down like that, but that's the way I see it.
 

QuietTruth

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2008, 08:07:25 AM »
But it also makes you susceptible to following his rules. What you think everytime you do somethang bad you gon get punished? It ain't like that.

OK, well why wouldn't God just make you do the right thing anyway if he has the power to? Just to give himself a chance to put somebody in hell. He gets off on making people suffer. But this is a loving god right?

Yup. If it ain't rough it ain't right. If you was God, please don't tell me you would create a world in which you controlled EVERYBODY and EVERYTHANG they did. Where's the fun in that? To suffer is to live..

Quote from: Chip Brogden
It is not a question of God allowing or not allowing things to happen. It is part of living. Some things we do to ourselves, other things we do to each other. Our Father knows about every bird which falls to the ground, but He does not always prevent it from falling. What are we to learn from this? That our response to what happens is more important than what happens. Here is a mystery: one man’s experience drives him to curse God, while another man’s identical experience drives him to bless God. Your response to what happens is more important than what happens.
But really, life is 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you respond to it, word?
 

Elevz

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2008, 08:49:11 AM »
To suffer is to live..

I refuse to believe you mean that.
 

QuietTruth

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2008, 08:51:46 AM »
To suffer is to live..

I refuse to believe you mean that.

Shitt, I said it the wrong way, it's..To live is to suffer.
 

Elevz

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2008, 09:07:01 AM »
To suffer is to live..

I refuse to believe you mean that.

Shitt, I said it the wrong way, it's..To live is to suffer.

lol :D It's all good! In that case I agree with you: it takes a certain amount of effort to live; only if you're willing to suffer, the pleasure that comes afterwards will exceed the suffering.
 

QuietTruth

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2008, 09:39:36 AM »
To suffer is to live..

I refuse to believe you mean that.

Shitt, I said it the wrong way, it's..To live is to suffer.

lol :D It's all good! In that case I agree with you: it takes a certain amount of effort to live; only if you're willing to suffer, the pleasure that comes afterwards will exceed the suffering.

Fo' real, exactly. 8)
 

Elevz

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2008, 10:08:23 AM »
We agree? We really do? Wow. Hahaha ;D
 

QuietTruth

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2008, 10:10:14 AM »
LMFAO! A 1st? Nahh, you my nigga though. 8)