Author Topic: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out  (Read 560 times)

Turf Hitta

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #45 on: March 09, 2008, 04:31:40 PM »
But it also makes you susceptible to following his rules. What you think everytime you do somethang bad you gon get punished? It ain't like that.

OK, well why wouldn't God just make you do the right thing anyway if he has the power to? Just to give himself a chance to put somebody in hell. He gets off on making people suffer. But this is a loving god right?

Yup. If it ain't rough it ain't right. If you was God, please don't tell me you would create a world in which you controlled EVERYBODY and EVERYTHANG they did. Where's the fun in that? To suffer is to live..

So are you now also saying that God gives you the chance to disobey him simply because he finds it "fun" to torture people. Neato.
 

Sikotic™

Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #46 on: March 09, 2008, 05:42:05 PM »
The God of the Old Testament Bible is worse than Hitler.
 

Kill

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #47 on: March 10, 2008, 03:22:24 AM »
The God of the Old Testament Bible is worse than Hitler.
lol, true that, you don't get any more vile and psychopathic than Yahweh
 

Facez

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #48 on: March 10, 2008, 08:51:41 AM »
Like I said, if God punishes people for being the way he made them (susceptible to sin/unconvinced of the existence of God) then he is a vile and disgusting god. Thats like raising a child and telling him all through his childhood that he's worthless and will grow up to be a loser, providing an environment shitty enough to ensure it happens that way and then beating him constantly for it when he does in fact establish himself as a loser. Who was it that said something like "People were lookin for God but found religion instead"

First of all God didn’t just give us free will and that was it, God told Adam what to choose and then told him the consequences of choosing the wrong way so it wasn’t like he was clueless  and Adam (man) decided to choose Satan’s way

You cant blame God for giving us free will, if we didn’t have free will we couldn’t be considered beings we would be objects cause every being has free will even angels have free will, God gives us free will and directs us in the way we should go not for Gods benefit but for ours

The truth is God gave us free will and then told us the right way to go and we disobeyed therefore you can blame god that is like a parent raising the child in the right way (teaching him/her what is right and wrong, providing for him/ her) and then the child ends up being a murderer or rapist how can you blame the parent,?

Turf if God made you do the right thing then it isn’t free will he isn’t going to mess with that, the truth is no one has to go to hell because he has provided a way out through the death of Christ

So according to God, it is not perfect to know everything? Knowing everything is nothing better than to be completely ignorant? Mental development is not a virtue according to God?

Doesn't it require mental development and intellectual insight to know what is wrong and what is not? Isn't it true that the more you know, the better you'll be able to operate righteously in a complex world?

What ??? I wasnt implying that, you really misunderstood me, (its really my fault, sorry) I meant that God doesn’t require us to have all knowledge to get into heaven it not important, being sinless is.

Please forget that I used the word “perfect”, that God wants us to be “perfect” to get into heaven because it was the wrong word to use (as stated before), God requires us to be sinless, when I said perfect earlier I assumed you knew I meant sinless but I forgot that im writing to a non-Christian, if I was talking to a Christian and said God wanted us to be perfect he/she would know I meant sinless, so eleven sorry for this misunderstanding, please substitute the word for sinless.

God likes us to have knowledge otherwise he wouldn’t of given us the ability to learn but having a lot of knowledge will not get you into heaven.

The only sin I'm apparently guilty of, is not believing in God. And I do not believe that's a sin; it's one of the things I believe in, and I don't believe that my beliefs are sinful. I have no reason to suspect that.
Depending on your definition of a lie, I don't think I'm a liar, I've never stolen or treated people in a way that goes against my beliefs. Isn't that exactly what a sin is: to be going against your beliefs? To contradict?

Definition of sin -  To commit a sin; violate a law of God or a moral law

So not even looking at in on a spiritual level you know that lying is morally wrong (many people do it including myself but its still wrong) you can not deny that fact that lying is wrong but our standards of right and wrong have degraded

This is what God says

•Stealing is wrong (even taking something small, maybe something that belongs to a sibling or parent)
•Coveting is wrong
•Hating a person is wrong
•Cheating is wrong
•Murder is wrong
•Blasphemy is wrong
•Not showing your parents respect
•And more

You can deny that you have broken one these, if anyone denies that they have broken one of these they have lied (and broken one of these lol) and they are guilty of self justification , we as humans tend to put sins on different levels (stealing is worse than lying etc) God puts them on the same level

The bible says everyone has sinned if you have broken one of the commandment you guilty of breaking all of them because god looks at sin on the same level, it doesn’t matter how many times you sinned or what sins you have committed its still sin and everyone is gulty of it.

So Jesus had to become flawed (his blood had to be shed), precisely because he was too perfect?

Jesus didn't invent a cure for cancer. He can't have been perfect, or sinless. Had he used his capacities better, he maybe could have achieved more; he could have made mankind better. For everything he could have done, but didn't do... Strictly speaking, his failing to achieve
is sloth. That's a sin, is it not?



What do you mean that Jesus didn’t invent a cure for cancer,  by Christ dying he did more than he could of done when he was on earth because by his death: he prevented people from going to hell (which is 10000 times worse than cancer), he has given people the power to heal (whether you believe it or not), because through his death he was able to give man back the authority that satan stole from him (the power to be whole) by Jesus dying he overcame the world and every infirmity in it the reason why are world isn’t in a great state is not because of what Jesus didn’t do, its because of how Godless our world is and continues to get the more we reject God we chose to continue give satan authority over us (with murder, sickness, rape etc).

Jesus didn’t give up his life because he was sick of the world, he did it for the benefit of man, he did it to save man,

Jesus never thought he was better than anyone he hang around with prostitutes healing the sick, providing food for the needy

I didn't intend to imply that Jesus committed suicide. But did Jesus do everything he possibly could to remain alive? No. Did he allow himself to be punished and crucified? Yes. Did he really believe in his own guilt? I don't think so. He just let it happen.
What he did by sacrifising himself, was pointing yet another finger at the dispicable state of men. He thought of himself as being better than that. He thought of the people as being unworthy of his presence (or else he would have tried to avoid his death, don't you think?).
Jesus hated his life among the people. His actions weren't pro life; he let the rulers punish him unjustly. That makes Jesus a sinner, for two reasons:
1) Not standing firm behind his beliefs, thus compromising and flipflopping;
2) Giving up his life.
is

Jesus never thought of man as unworthy of his presence that is your interpretation if Jesus would of avoided death what good would that have done to the people in the world and the next generation and us living yeah people could of got healed but they would of still gone to hell so what’s the point of being healed and then dying and going to hell. After he died he gave power to the inhabitants of earth (whoever accepts the power) to overcome its infirmities

Jesus didn't succeed, did he? There still are sins around us everywhere. Now, what kind of perfected warrior willfully lets such evil prevail? That's a contradictio in terminis. You can't be perfect and not fight evil, if perfection and evil are opposed. Jesus didn't love mankind, and he didn't love his life, for a good reason: he didn't believe in any of it. He didn't believe in making mankind better, he didn't believe in enhancing life, he didn't believe in curing sins. Instead, he helped mankind to sin. He's the worst kind of disbeliever you'll ever hear about. If he really believed in God's creation, he would have fought for mankind.

I'm sorry to break your hero down like that, but that's the way I see i
Jesus did destroy sin Colossians 2:15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross

The reason why sin still reigns is because we continue to choose to sin. Jesus has given us the power over sin. Sin only exists as long as there are people who want to sin,

The bible states at the end the devil and death will be thrown in the lake of fire, so sin has been destroyed we continue to keep it alive

One question every Christian I debate with refuses to answer: If God is the Creator of ALL and he's a LOVING god, then how come he created evil?

To answer sikotics questions/statements

Evil is not a creation its not a thing it’s a force it came out from good,  good and evil are 2 forces just like light and darkness, you cant have light without darkness or Good without bad, its impossible

Isaiah 47:15 The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.

God formed light and caused darkness (god formed good and evil came from it)

Also the issue of free will you cant have free will if there is only good to choose from


And  to answer the God is worse than Hitler statement

If you read the old testament you’ll see that the people that were punished were, murders, rapists (people who raped men women children), men and women who offered their children as sacrifices to foreign Gods. The righteous people were not punished, and the thing is God sent warnings to the people to change their ways in the story of Noah God waited 400 years warning people that they shouldn’t do the things that they are doing and in the end only Noah was saved cuz he listened 
 

Kill

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #49 on: March 10, 2008, 09:52:09 AM »
^ simple question: why do you believe all of this? Just wondering...
 

Turf Hitta

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #50 on: March 10, 2008, 12:54:44 PM »
Like I said, if God punishes people for being the way he made them (susceptible to sin/unconvinced of the existence of God) then he is a vile and disgusting god. Thats like raising a child and telling him all through his childhood that he's worthless and will grow up to be a loser, providing an environment shitty enough to ensure it happens that way and then beating him constantly for it when he does in fact establish himself as a loser. Who was it that said something like "People were lookin for God but found religion instead"

First of all God didn’t just give us free will and that was it, God told Adam what to choose and then told him the consequences of choosing the wrong way so it wasn’t like he was clueless  and Adam (man) decided to choose Satan’s way

You cant blame God for giving us free will, if we didn’t have free will we couldn’t be considered beings we would be objects cause every being has free will even angels have free will, God gives us free will and directs us in the way we should go not for Gods benefit but for ours

The truth is God gave us free will and then told us the right way to go and we disobeyed therefore you can blame god that is like a parent raising the child in the right way (teaching him/her what is right and wrong, providing for him/ her) and then the child ends up being a murderer or rapist how can you blame the parent,?

Turf if God made you do the right thing then it isn’t free will he isn’t going to mess with that, the truth is no one has to go to hell because he has provided a way out through the death of Christ



You don't get it. By proxy of giving man free will, God gave man the opportunity to be tortured for all of eternity. If it was so important that his will be carried o ut, then why not just impose his will rather than torturing for all of eternity those who have been led astray? That is not the action of a loving god. It seems to me that you would do everything in your power to keep your loved ones away from something like that.
 

QuietTruth

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #51 on: March 10, 2008, 01:40:43 PM »
^ Why you so worried about if he's loving or not? Nigga, you sound like you praise Satan. :-\
 

Turf Hitta

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #52 on: March 10, 2008, 07:38:18 PM »
^ Why you so worried about if he's loving or not? Nigga, you sound like you praise Satan. :-\

LOL where did I say anything about satan? And I'm absolutely not worried about whether he's loving or not. I'm just pointing out one of many contradictions and inconsistencies that make it difficult for logical people to accept this particular doctrine as absolute truth.
 

QuietTruth

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #53 on: March 11, 2008, 03:23:20 PM »
They always said punishment comes outta love. When your moms put you in the corner for stealing your brothers jolly ranchers, did she ever do that shit outta hate? Nahh, I think she was tryin' to teach you a lesson. Only did it out of love, word?

Word.
 

Turf Hitta

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2008, 11:13:47 PM »
They always said punishment comes outta love. When your moms put you in the corner for stealing your brothers jolly ranchers, did she ever do that shit outta hate? Nahh, I think she was tryin' to teach you a lesson. Only did it out of love, word?

Word.

Your mother never intended to have you endure the most intense and brutal suffering until the end of time.
 

QuietTruth

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #55 on: March 12, 2008, 07:27:10 AM »
They always said punishment comes outta love. When your moms put you in the corner for stealing your brothers jolly ranchers, did she ever do that shit outta hate? Nahh, I think she was tryin' to teach you a lesson. Only did it out of love, word?

Word.

Your mother never intended to have you endure the most intense and brutal suffering until the end of time.

And what's the 'most intense and brutal suffering until the end of time'?
 

Turf Hitta

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #56 on: March 12, 2008, 09:16:25 AM »
They always said punishment comes outta love. When your moms put you in the corner for stealing your brothers jolly ranchers, did she ever do that shit outta hate? Nahh, I think she was tryin' to teach you a lesson. Only did it out of love, word?

Word.

Your mother never intended to have you endure the most intense and brutal suffering until the end of time.

And what's the 'most intense and brutal suffering until the end of time'?

LOL Fuck homie, do I gotta spell it out to you? What exactly goes on in this place you believe in called Hell? Quit playin dumb.
 

QuietTruth

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Re: Survey: Americans switching faiths, dropping out
« Reply #57 on: March 12, 2008, 02:07:44 PM »
Quote
Man lives in a universe of cause and effect and the consequences of certain causes are inescapable. Fire burns, water drowns, disease germs destroy. These facts have moral implications. Men live in a universe in which the consequences of what they do are inescapable, and therefore their responsibility for what they do is equally inescapable. Without this burden of 'natural law' man could do as he liked with impunity, and there would be no responsibility. God made the universe this way because He is a moral God who makes men responsible beings with freewill to choose how they will act.

Nigga, fuck it, who gives a fuck, go to church.