Author Topic: This sampling shit in hi hop has gone too far (Angle prod. by Kanye West)  (Read 899 times)

Chief

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Re: This sampling shit in hi hop has gone too far (Angle prod. by Kanye West)
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2008, 06:06:54 AM »
what about california love? changes? tonight? man so much shit gets sampled where it hasnt changed much, it brings back the old songs and lets us enjoy them again!!!

yeah its good to hear FRESH shit which is really made from scratch, but some of that old music is timeless and sounds better when sampled!!!
 

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Re: This sampling shit in hi hop has gone too far (Angle prod. by Kanye West)
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2008, 06:42:14 AM »
what about california love? changes? tonight? man so much shit gets sampled where it hasnt changed much, it brings back the old songs and lets us enjoy them again!!!

yeah its good to hear FRESH shit which is really made from scratch, but some of that old music is timeless and sounds better when sampled!!!


The point is not whether it's cool that people get to hear old songs they never would have heard. Kanye could just release compilations like "Kanye Presents Gems of the 70s". The point is who gets the credit for being creative. Kanye was once on Much Music here in Toronto and was complaining about how Good Charlotte "stole" Jay Z's "this is the anthem get your damn hands up" line for their hit of the time. At that moment I really wanted a brick to come flying into his head.

Imagine if The Jonas Brothers sang the lyrics of an Illmatic song over a new track of original music and got praised for being a skilled rhymer and great lyricist with no credit going to Nas. Would you be defending it by saying "well a lot of 13 year old girls now get to hear Nas's old classic"?
 

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Re: This sampling shit in hi hop has gone too far (Angle prod. by Kanye West)
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2008, 08:39:47 AM »
HOW ABOUT THIS... CAN YOU DO IT???

SAMPLE A RECORD.. ANY RECORD, AND MAKE AN INSTRUMENTAL WITH HIP HOP DRUMS AS DOPE AS KANYE DOES IT...


IF YOU CANT DO IT ... STFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE THANKS.
 

Chief

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Re: This sampling shit in hi hop has gone too far (Angle prod. by Kanye West)
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2008, 12:39:46 PM »
what about california love? changes? tonight? man so much shit gets sampled where it hasnt changed much, it brings back the old songs and lets us enjoy them again!!!

yeah its good to hear FRESH shit which is really made from scratch, but some of that old music is timeless and sounds better when sampled!!!


The point is not whether it's cool that people get to hear old songs they never would have heard. Kanye could just release compilations like "Kanye Presents Gems of the 70s". The point is who gets the credit for being creative. Kanye was once on Much Music here in Toronto and was complaining about how Good Charlotte "stole" Jay Z's "this is the anthem get your damn hands up" line for their hit of the time. At that moment I really wanted a brick to come flying into his head.

Imagine if The Jonas Brothers sang the lyrics of an Illmatic song over a new track of original music and got praised for being a skilled rhymer and great lyricist with no credit going to Nas. Would you be defending it by saying "well a lot of 13 year old girls now get to hear Nas's old classic"?


dude, you missed the point. the fact is that it doesnt matter who created it, its who brought it back sounding fresh. because if you re-released that old shit, it wouldn't be good. the fact of the matter is ANYONE could sample it, but kanye does it often and hits it big. if its so easy to do go and sample an old school track and get radio play. i challenge you to it.

and its pretty obvious kanye is an arrogant fuck, but i dont know why people allow personality to get in the way of how music makes you feel.

bottom line is you're all hating and letting bullshit cloud your judgement.
 

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Re: This sampling shit in hi hop has gone too far (Angle prod. by Kanye West)
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2008, 12:54:25 PM »
hip hop IS sampling, where you niggers been?


and ya don't stop
 

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Re: This sampling shit in hi hop has gone too far (Angle prod. by Kanye West)
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2008, 04:16:12 PM »
what about california love? changes? tonight? man so much shit gets sampled where it hasnt changed much, it brings back the old songs and lets us enjoy them again!!!

yeah its good to hear FRESH shit which is really made from scratch, but some of that old music is timeless and sounds better when sampled!!!


The point is not whether it's cool that people get to hear old songs they never would have heard. Kanye could just release compilations like "Kanye Presents Gems of the 70s". The point is who gets the credit for being creative. Kanye was once on Much Music here in Toronto and was complaining about how Good Charlotte "stole" Jay Z's "this is the anthem get your damn hands up" line for their hit of the time. At that moment I really wanted a brick to come flying into his head.

Imagine if The Jonas Brothers sang the lyrics of an Illmatic song over a new track of original music and got praised for being a skilled rhymer and great lyricist with no credit going to Nas. Would you be defending it by saying "well a lot of 13 year old girls now get to hear Nas's old classic"?


dude, you missed the point. the fact is that it doesnt matter who created it, its who brought it back sounding fresh. because if you re-released that old shit, it wouldn't be good. the fact of the matter is ANYONE could sample it, but kanye does it often and hits it big. if its so easy to do go and sample an old school track and get radio play. i challenge you to it.

and its pretty obvious kanye is an arrogant fuck, but i dont know why people allow personality to get in the way of how music makes you feel.

bottom line is you're all hating and letting bullshit cloud your judgement.


It wasn't his arrogance it was his hypocrisy. How can he hate on Good Charlotte for having a hit that included a Jay Z rhyme when he makes hits using other people's music, (and Jay himself takes other people rhymes all the time)?

What does whether or not I can sample a melody and put drums to it have to do with Kanye taking credit for other people's creativity. When he took CSNY's Chicago for Beanie Sigel's The Truth there wasn't even any mention that it was sampled and nothing was mentioned in the songwriting credits. It's down right dishonest. He's not Led Zeppelin bad or anything. They made a career out of stealing melodies and giving no credit. At least most of the time Kanye gives the credit.

As far as getting radio play and shit is concerned; big fucking deal. Paris Hilton had a hit with radio and video play. There are plenty of underground DJs and producers that sample creatively and create incredible tracks using 5 or 6 samples or just one sample very well. They couldn't get a video to save their lives.

Kanye is the Puff Daddy for the new generation, except he might write his own rhymes too. Puffy experienced 1000 times the success of a Pete Rock but I dare anyone to say Puff is better.
 

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Re: This sampling shit in hi hop has gone too far (Angle prod. by Kanye West)
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2008, 04:51:44 PM »
^ in led zeppelins defense, jimi page did some amazing arangements on those songs, and really did add a LOT of fuckin talent to them, most just kept lyrics, .. still the fact that he didnt give credit doesnt make any sense
 

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Re: This sampling shit in hi hop has gone too far (Angle prod. by Kanye West)
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2008, 04:56:12 PM »
^ in led zeppelins defense, jimi page did some amazing arangements on those songs, and really did add a LOT of fuckin talent to them, most just kept lyrics, .. still the fact that he didnt give credit doesnt make any sense


There were quite a lot of riffs that were completely jacked (Stair To Heaven included) and Page walked around like he thought them up out of nowhere. It was a low thing to do. What he did was worse than Kanye (even more so when you take into account how little money the original artists Page jacked made), but Jimmy Page still has a billion times the talent Kanye will ever have.
 

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Re: This sampling shit in hi hop has gone too far (Angle prod. by Kanye West)
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2008, 05:18:44 PM »
what about california love? changes? tonight? man so much shit gets sampled where it hasnt changed much, it brings back the old songs and lets us enjoy them again!!!

yeah its good to hear FRESH shit which is really made from scratch, but some of that old music is timeless and sounds better when sampled!!!


The point is not whether it's cool that people get to hear old songs they never would have heard. Kanye could just release compilations like "Kanye Presents Gems of the 70s". The point is who gets the credit for being creative. Kanye was once on Much Music here in Toronto and was complaining about how Good Charlotte "stole" Jay Z's "this is the anthem get your damn hands up" line for their hit of the time. At that moment I really wanted a brick to come flying into his head.

Imagine if The Jonas Brothers sang the lyrics of an Illmatic song over a new track of original music and got praised for being a skilled rhymer and great lyricist with no credit going to Nas. Would you be defending it by saying "well a lot of 13 year old girls now get to hear Nas's old classic"?


dude, you missed the point. the fact is that it doesnt matter who created it, its who brought it back sounding fresh. because if you re-released that old shit, it wouldn't be good. the fact of the matter is ANYONE could sample it, but kanye does it often and hits it big. if its so easy to do go and sample an old school track and get radio play. i challenge you to it.

and its pretty obvious kanye is an arrogant fuck, but i dont know why people allow personality to get in the way of how music makes you feel.

bottom line is you're all hating and letting bullshit cloud your judgement.

For me, personally....I DJ and produce, and grew up with musicians....so I judge things a bit different.

When cats like Kanye will take a sample and barely add ANYTHING to it besides drums...I will give them credit as I would to a DJ for discovering hidden or forgotten about tracks....like damm, he has a good ear and good memory. As far as judging their creativity...that's a whole different story. I don't feel a producer has to play every instrument to be seen as a "producer", and he doesn't have to make the most complex music we've ever heard to be dope...but I just won't get Kanye the same type of props for tracks like "Angel" and "Takeover" as I give him for doing "Slow Jams" and "Overnight celebrity" where he really flipped the hell out of the beats in a way that most producers couldn't. And even more than that...I'd give cats like Premo more credit for taking samples from different songs that no one can find, and combining them together and making them all in one beat.

Now overall, I don't give Hip Hop producers nearly as much credit for being true musicians as I will to those who composed Soul, Funk, Rock, and Jazz....I give most of them more credit as being "creative DJs", especially those who sample. Sometimes, flipping samples can be very difficult and creative...but please believe that the artists who played and composed the instruments on these original songs are the ones who should get the most credit.

I don't have a problem with people giving Kanye and whoever else props for flipping beats...but most people our age just don't appreciate the original musicians as much, when they were the ones who were TRULY musically inclined. 






H. Chad

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Re: This sampling shit in hi hop has gone too far (Angle prod. by Kanye West)
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2008, 08:52:46 PM »
admittedly there is alot of shit out there that is a straight loop. But its fairly obvious that this track isnt because if it did it would have the vocals of "dust" at the beginning for every 2 bars, so it sounds like hes chopped another part of the sample for the first part of every 2 bars

Chief

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Re: This sampling shit in hi hop has gone too far (Angle prod. by Kanye West)
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2008, 08:58:13 PM »
what about california love? changes? tonight? man so much shit gets sampled where it hasnt changed much, it brings back the old songs and lets us enjoy them again!!!

yeah its good to hear FRESH shit which is really made from scratch, but some of that old music is timeless and sounds better when sampled!!!


The point is not whether it's cool that people get to hear old songs they never would have heard. Kanye could just release compilations like "Kanye Presents Gems of the 70s". The point is who gets the credit for being creative. Kanye was once on Much Music here in Toronto and was complaining about how Good Charlotte "stole" Jay Z's "this is the anthem get your damn hands up" line for their hit of the time. At that moment I really wanted a brick to come flying into his head.

Imagine if The Jonas Brothers sang the lyrics of an Illmatic song over a new track of original music and got praised for being a skilled rhymer and great lyricist with no credit going to Nas. Would you be defending it by saying "well a lot of 13 year old girls now get to hear Nas's old classic"?


dude, you missed the point. the fact is that it doesnt matter who created it, its who brought it back sounding fresh. because if you re-released that old shit, it wouldn't be good. the fact of the matter is ANYONE could sample it, but kanye does it often and hits it big. if its so easy to do go and sample an old school track and get radio play. i challenge you to it.

and its pretty obvious kanye is an arrogant fuck, but i dont know why people allow personality to get in the way of how music makes you feel.

bottom line is you're all hating and letting bullshit cloud your judgement.

For me, personally....I DJ and produce, and grew up with musicians....so I judge things a bit different.

When cats like Kanye will take a sample and barely add ANYTHING to it besides drums...I will give them credit as I would to a DJ for discovering hidden or forgotten about tracks....like damm, he has a good ear and good memory. As far as judging their creativity...that's a whole different story. I don't feel a producer has to play every instrument to be seen as a "producer", and he doesn't have to make the most complex music we've ever heard to be dope...but I just won't get Kanye the same type of props for tracks like "Angel" and "Takeover" as I give him for doing "Slow Jams" and "Overnight celebrity" where he really flipped the hell out of the beats in a way that most producers couldn't. And even more than that...I'd give cats like Premo more credit for taking samples from different songs that no one can find, and combining them together and making them all in one beat.

Now overall, I don't give Hip Hop producers nearly as much credit for being true musicians as I will to those who composed Soul, Funk, Rock, and Jazz....I give most of them more credit as being "creative DJs", especially those who sample. Sometimes, flipping samples can be very difficult and creative...but please believe that the artists who played and composed the instruments on these original songs are the ones who should get the most credit.

I don't have a problem with people giving Kanye and whoever else props for flipping beats...but most people our age just don't appreciate the original musicians as much, when they were the ones who were TRULY musically inclined. 







from a musical perspective you make a valid point... yeah maybe they get credit for something they shouldn't, but at the end of the day credit doesnt mean shit to the mass population... not everyone looks at album credits, or cares who produced a track... they just enjoy the music and listen to it because its good.

 

Shallow

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Re: This sampling shit in hi hop has gone too far (Angle prod. by Kanye West)
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2008, 09:07:43 PM »
admittedly there is alot of shit out there that is a straight loop. But its fairly obvious that this track isnt because if it did it would have the vocals of "dust" at the beginning for every 2 bars, so it sounds like hes chopped another part of the sample for the first part of every 2 bars


Very few big name producers actually "sample" anymore. Dre never "sampled" in the old days. They have studio musicians that replay the old tracks. That's why they sound more modern because they are played by amazing musicians using new recording equipment. Not because the producer does something to the track.
 

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Re: This sampling shit in hi hop has gone too far (Angle prod. by Kanye West)
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2008, 09:45:02 PM »
i actually have the original song (gil scott heron 'angel dust') on cd kanye added some slight shit. not mad at his sample choice though.



he added a few small details, but what did he really do?  Just chose someone else dope beat and remaster it?

why get mad about it now? This type of shit has been going on since rap was invented. its not kanye's fault people act like he's some kind of fuckin genius.
 

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Re: This sampling shit in hi hop has gone too far (Angle prod. by Kanye West)
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2008, 10:46:29 PM »
i actually have the original song (gil scott heron 'angel dust') on cd kanye added some slight shit. not mad at his sample choice though.



he added a few small details, but what did he really do?  Just chose someone else dope beat and remaster it?

why get mad about it now? This type of shit has been going on since rap was invented. its not kanye's fault people act like he's some kind of fuckin genius.


I think it is. He's been calling himself a genius for so long eventually the media started calling him one too.
 

Chief

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Re: This sampling shit in hi hop has gone too far (Angle prod. by Kanye West)
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2008, 11:55:00 PM »
admittedly there is alot of shit out there that is a straight loop. But its fairly obvious that this track isnt because if it did it would have the vocals of "dust" at the beginning for every 2 bars, so it sounds like hes chopped another part of the sample for the first part of every 2 bars


Very few big name producers actually "sample" anymore. Dre never "sampled" in the old days. They have studio musicians that replay the old tracks. That's why they sound more modern because they are played by amazing musicians using new recording equipment. Not because the producer does something to the track.

i'm not buying that. some SIMPLE things they couldnt sample they would replay.

listen to the original hypnotize, the original california love, the original changes.... it was blatant *copy* *paste* *add a bass line and snare*
 

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Re: This sampling shit in hi hop has gone too far (Angle prod. by Kanye West)
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2008, 06:23:43 AM »
admittedly there is alot of shit out there that is a straight loop. But its fairly obvious that this track isnt because if it did it would have the vocals of "dust" at the beginning for every 2 bars, so it sounds like hes chopped another part of the sample for the first part of every 2 bars


Very few big name producers actually "sample" anymore. Dre never "sampled" in the old days. They have studio musicians that replay the old tracks. That's why they sound more modern because they are played by amazing musicians using new recording equipment. Not because the producer does something to the track.

i'm not buying that. some SIMPLE things they couldnt sample they would replay.

listen to the original hypnotize, the original california love, the original changes.... it was blatant *copy* *paste* *add a bass line and snare*


I think I'll take Dr. Dre's word over yours. I didn't think this up all by myself. I read it in interrviews over the years. Really listen to Joe Cocker's Woman to Woman and then listen to Cali Love. There is a different sound quality to the new one. Studio musicians like the ones Dre would work with are masterful players and can recreate anything.
 

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Re: This sampling shit in hi hop has gone too far (Angle prod. by Kanye West)
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2008, 09:16:37 AM »
from a musical perspective you make a valid point... yeah maybe they get credit for something they shouldn't, but at the end of the day credit doesnt mean shit to the mass population... not everyone looks at album credits, or cares who produced a track... they just enjoy the music and listen to it because its good.


why you care about the mass population so much, imo they are idiots, with terrible music taste, no knowledge or care of anything about music or the history, so using the 'mass population' towards your defense is retarded
 

Chief

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Re: This sampling shit in hi hop has gone too far (Angle prod. by Kanye West)
« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2008, 08:15:04 AM »
from a musical perspective you make a valid point... yeah maybe they get credit for something they shouldn't, but at the end of the day credit doesnt mean shit to the mass population... not everyone looks at album credits, or cares who produced a track... they just enjoy the music and listen to it because its good.


why you care about the mass population so much, imo they are idiots, with terrible music taste, no knowledge or care of anything about music or the history, so using the 'mass population' towards your defense is retarded

maybe you should pull your head out of your ass.
 

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Re: This sampling shit in hi hop has gone too far (Angle prod. by Kanye West)
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2008, 09:25:28 AM »
from a musical perspective you make a valid point... yeah maybe they get credit for something they shouldn't, but at the end of the day credit doesnt mean shit to the mass population... not everyone looks at album credits, or cares who produced a track... they just enjoy the music and listen to it because its good.


why you care about the mass population so much, imo they are idiots, with terrible music taste, no knowledge or care of anything about music or the history, so using the 'mass population' towards your defense is retarded

maybe you should pull your head out of your ass.
your main point is that people feel it so its gotta be good ::)
 

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Re: This sampling shit in hi hop has gone too far (Angle prod. by Kanye West)
« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2008, 03:50:40 PM »
from a musical perspective you make a valid point... yeah maybe they get credit for something they shouldn't, but at the end of the day credit doesnt mean shit to the mass population... not everyone looks at album credits, or cares who produced a track... they just enjoy the music and listen to it because its good.


why you care about the mass population so much, imo they are idiots, with terrible music taste, no knowledge or care of anything about music or the history, so using the 'mass population' towards your defense is retarded

maybe you should pull your head out of your ass.
your main point is that people feel it so its gotta be good ::)


He's right. Kanye is the biggest musical genius on the scene since Lou Pearlman. But Lou Pearlman is obviously better. Kanye can't fuck with back to back to back to back diamond albums.
 

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Re: This sampling shit in hi hop has gone too far (Angle prod. by Kanye West)
« Reply #45 on: September 08, 2008, 07:10:04 AM »
lol @ the haters..