Author Topic: Evolution  (Read 1661 times)

Shallow

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #50 on: December 03, 2009, 10:43:43 AM »
Rap, let me say it again and I hope you understand me this time, faith with regards to religion has nothing to do with what I mean by faith. Faith and evidence go hand in hand. The very reason criminals take or don't take pleas is based on it. If you have video of a man committing a crime and his face, and voice are easily recognizable you have a guilty plea because there is no argument against the crime. If you have an eye witness, and a motive it still isn't the same as a video. It is still based on faith that what is logical is most likely. There was a man released from prison a few years ago here in Canada for the murder and abduction of a young girl. All the evidence, science, and logic, pointed to him. The jury had faith in it. Science changed. He was released. It was logical, it was evident, but it was wrong. Why was he put in jail? Because of faith. Faith in DNA testing. Faith in eye witnesses. None of them saw him kill the girl, but they believed he did. And all the logic agreed with it.


Faith occurs when you haven't seen it yourself. And in science or in law faith works out just fine most of the time, but it's still faith to some degree. I don't believe two objects of differing mass fall at the same rate. I see it, try it and know it. I don't see, try, and know, new species evolving from completely different species. I believe it. There is a difference. So stop equating human evolution to gravity.

You seem to want to use the word faith in a way which isn't congruent with the way people use it. No one has ever used the word faith to describe something that has solid evidence behind it. I'm not going to play your game. Belief in logic and having faith in something are not the same. You can google faith vs. belief to learn the difference.

As far as species evolving from different species, that is fact. And I was equating evolution in general to gravity, because we know evolution occurs.


I don't care what google says. Webster says Faith is belief and Belief's first synonym is Faith. In fact the main difference is that faith is usually spoken with certitude, while belief isn't. Your stupidity is making me upset. Just show me the fact and proof that the homo-sapien evolved from the homo-erectus like I can show you the the fact and proof that two objects of different mass fall at the same rate and I'll shut up. Because that is what we are talking about, not micro-evolution, or evolution in plants or insects. So stop trying to sway the argument to something I am not opposing or questioning. Just answer my questions and shut me up. Just tell me why believing in logic and fucking seeing two things of different mass fall at the same rate are the same. You fucking idiot.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 10:50:59 AM by Shallow »
 

BG Rapsodie

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #51 on: December 03, 2009, 02:11:06 PM »
I don't care what google says. Webster says Faith is belief and Belief's first synonym is Faith. In fact the main difference is that faith is usually spoken with certitude, while belief isn't. Your stupidity is making me upset. Just show me the fact and proof that the homo-sapien evolved from the homo-erectus like I can show you the the fact and proof that two objects of different mass fall at the same rate and I'll shut up. Because that is what we are talking about, not micro-evolution, or evolution in plants or insects. So stop trying to sway the argument to something I am not opposing or questioning. Just answer my questions and shut me up. Just tell me why believing in logic and fucking seeing two things of different mass fall at the same rate are the same. You fucking idiot.


You don't care what the actual usage of the term is? Why did you cite the Webster definition when it doesn't even support what you were saying? You said: belief in human evolution is faith because it can't be proven and isn't entirely certain. Webster says: faith implies certitude. Now you've made things even more complicated, since Webster has a different definition of faith than either you or I.

Using the words faith and belief are evidently pointless if we can't agree whether they have different meanings or not. So I'm just going to define it all in terms of belief. The belief in religion is believing something based on no empirical evidence. And the belief in human evolution is believing in something based on empirical evidence. You agree with that right? End of story. Now lets move on to something worth arguing about.

I said evolution is fact because it has been observed. I don't need to prove that homo-sapiens evolved from homo erectus, because that is a theory. A theory of human evolution, to be precise. It hasn't been proven, They could have evolved from something else. What is your fucking point exactly? Did I ever say its fact that homo sapiens evolved from homo erectus? What the hell is the point of this if all you're going to do is say prove [insert species] evolved from [insert other species]. Basically, your only interest seems to be in changing the definition of evolution to "whatever can't be proven."

Quote
Just tell me why believing in logic and fucking seeing two things of different mass fall at the same rate are the same.

I never did say such a thing. There is absolutely no reason you have to be insulting. Apparently you're the "fucking idiot" by misrepresenting what I'm saying and asking me to prove something I never said in the first place.
 

BG Rapsodie

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #52 on: December 03, 2009, 02:22:49 PM »
Aight, Technical Timothy

Gotta try to use that one on someone tomorrow lol


 :D


Well I guess I got into something else here, but I will say that the more I learn about evolution, the more I am led to believe that there is something that created this.  Things are almost too complex to insist that it "just happened".  Now I don't think whatever created everything is some church's idea of God, but I think there is someone/thing that is responsible.
Real fuckin' got damn talk.


And who don't agree wit evolution?? We don't believe we EVOLVED FROM MONKEYS. How Christians reject the idea of advancing? We know we evolve. Look at fuckin' race got damn it. Evolution in the context of 'ape to man' is what we reject. In THAT context of evolution.

no one says we evolved from apes. Its that we evolved from a common ancestor.

also, monkey isn't the same as ape.

Aight, Technical Timothy, but wasn't you the other nigga in that thread implying you believe we evolved from an ape??

No...the theory is that we and apes evolved from the same thing. I'm going to use a word you like to use. Coincidence. Do you think its a coincidence that we are physically so similarly to apes? What about all fossils that have been found of Homo Erectus, Neanderthal, etc, other intelligent humanoids? None of this supports your belief that humans were "created".
So who created the apes?

Like I and others on this board have already said, pick up a book. It ain't my job to explain evolution to someone who isn't willing to learn beyond what they have been conditioned for.

Looks like you're stumped. Aww, damn.

I'm not the one who's stumped. Google the shit. it ain't my job to do your research for you. You shouldn't be involved in the conversation if you don't understand what's being discussed.

You sound like a got damn broken record. Nigga please. I understand. You must just not understand my vocabulary. Mmmm k. I'm followin' youuuuuuuu Rapsodie, followin' youuuuuuuu, and not in that way so fallback. I'm followin' your conversation. What I'd like to know is how ev'rybody just skipped over M Dogg's post. Hmmm?? Why didn't nobody challenge what he said? Ah, maybe he just made a good point.

If I sound like a broken record, its because you aren't listening. DO SOME RESEARCH.

your questions don't make any sense. Its not the vocabulary, its that you don't know what you're talking about. Who created the apes? You're the one who is saying they were created, not me. If you mean what apes evolved from, you can google an article about ape evolution and find out easily. You can't just come into a discussion and expect other people to explain to you what is being discussed.

What I want to know is how you can swear that we aren't related at all to apes, when you haven't even taken the time to do any research into the topic.
I was simply replying to you with my 'who created apes'.

You said you believe in the theory that we and apes evolved from the same thang, and I'm askin' you, what created that thang? Shit just can't appear. So we formed from organisms? Well how did the organisms get here?

I assume by this you essentially mean how did the universe start? There are various theories, I'm sure you know about them. None of them can be proven obviously. However, this doesn't help your argument in the slightest. If something hasn't been proven, that doesn't give you a good reason to come up with another illogical reason. You can ask the question how did life first start, but what in the world would lead you to conclude it was created by an all powerful deity? That's using the same logic as this:

If I show some Amazonas people who are on stone age-level a TV they'll think it was magic.

Look QT, you can believe whatever you want to believe, all I want you to admit is that you rely on absolute faith. Because you are arguing this like your belief is more logical, when obviously it isn't.

Well. At least you hearing me out. I think.

Okay I rely on my faith, but it's sensible faith, wit at the least, reasonable evidence. There's thangs in The Bible that corroborates our life, even the start of our life! Even in The Quran, there's shit corroborated by Science. It's not some book saying we were dropped outta the sky by some stork. It says we formed from dust off the ground. Now if you do just a little thinkin' maybe that could mean THAT organism that you think started us all. Who knows. See you believe man was started by chance, and I believe reason. And the logical motive for that? Becuz life just can't form by accident. And you know this. Don't you? It ain't like it's completely illogical to believe in God, like ya'll acting like. Let's be real.

But its not reasonable. There's no empirical evidence to support that a god exists. That's why its not logical. There are things in the Bible that correspond to life because, guess what? The people who wrote the bible were alive!

An organism isn't dust. I don't understand the connection. Its actually pretty easy to understand why they wrote about dust. Because they knew dead bodies turn into dust by seeing them decay.

You can believe that God created man. BUT............understand that it isn't any more logical than believing that a flying spaghetti monster created man. Or that the universe has been around forever. And this is only talking about creationism. How do you explain logic behind the belief that your identity will live on when you die and spend eternity in this happy place?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 02:27:49 PM by rapsodie, the troll prince »
 

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #53 on: December 03, 2009, 02:49:14 PM »

But its not reasonable. There's no empirical evidence to support that a god does not exist. That's why its not logical. There are things in the Science books that correspond to life because, guess what? The people who wrote the Science books were alive!


Just playing devils advocate, and not the Game album ;)
 

Shallow

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #54 on: December 03, 2009, 02:55:53 PM »
I don't care what google says. Webster says Faith is belief and Belief's first synonym is Faith. In fact the main difference is that faith is usually spoken with certitude, while belief isn't. Your stupidity is making me upset. Just show me the fact and proof that the homo-sapien evolved from the homo-erectus like I can show you the the fact and proof that two objects of different mass fall at the same rate and I'll shut up. Because that is what we are talking about, not micro-evolution, or evolution in plants or insects. So stop trying to sway the argument to something I am not opposing or questioning. Just answer my questions and shut me up. Just tell me why believing in logic and fucking seeing two things of different mass fall at the same rate are the same. You fucking idiot.


You don't care what the actual usage of the term is? Why did you cite the Webster definition when it doesn't even support what you were saying? You said: belief in human evolution is faith because it can't be proven and isn't entirely certain. Webster says: faith implies certitude. Now you've made things even more complicated, since Webster has a different definition of faith than either you or I.

Using the words faith and belief are evidently pointless if we can't agree whether they have different meanings or not. So I'm just going to define it all in terms of belief. The belief in religion is believing something based on no empirical evidence. And the belief in human evolution is believing in something based on empirical evidence. You agree with that right? End of story. Now lets move on to something worth arguing about.

I said evolution is fact because it has been observed. I don't need to prove that homo-sapiens evolved from homo erectus, because that is a theory. A theory of human evolution, to be precise. It hasn't been proven, They could have evolved from something else. What is your fucking point exactly? Did I ever say its fact that homo sapiens evolved from homo erectus? What the hell is the point of this if all you're going to do is say prove [insert species] evolved from [insert other species]. Basically, your only interest seems to be in changing the definition of evolution to "whatever can't be proven."

Quote
Just tell me why believing in logic and fucking seeing two things of different mass fall at the same rate are the same.

I never did say such a thing. There is absolutely no reason you have to be insulting. Apparently you're the "fucking idiot" by misrepresenting what I'm saying and asking me to prove something I never said in the first place.

Why do you keep bringing up religion? I don't get it. Of course they are different. Faith in God is completely personal and blind. Faith in evolution is based on what we see now and apply to what probably happened thousands of years ago with humans. But it is not proof or fact that humans evolved to homo-sapian from homo-erectus, or Homo neanderthalensis, or even evolved from anything. How homo sapian originated is not scientific fact. And saying it is based on fossils and biology we've discover SO FAR does not make it fact. Just because something is very likely and logical does not make it certain.

In court you can prove a witness is a constant liar and cannot be trusted to tell the truth but you cannot prove the witness was a liar in the particular case because of that history. What I mean is if I have a history of appearing in court and making false statements and several purgery chargers to my name I would be the worst witness for either side. But if I saw a murder and told the truth on the stand I'd still be right in that moment despite the fact that that the opposing council would destroy my credibility to the jury, and whatever I said would hold no merit. As a judge or member of the jury everything logical and scientific about my testimony would say I'm full of shit. But in fact I was telling the truth and because everyone listened to logic and reason a killer would go free.

Gravity on the other hand is not left up to faith in logic, because you can test gravity if you ever question it. You cannot test past human evolution, or my testimony.

As for the insult, I figured you were trolling me and I lashed out. But from the beginning I kept the same argument and you kept giving me the run around about how it's more logical than God and whatever. All I said was that teaching evolution, meaning historical evolution based on logic is not the same as teaching gravity. However if one were to say that on Earth from day one gravity worked as it does now, that would also be based on faith. We were never on earth when it was created to know how gravity worked then. We cannot study 10 million years ago. So if I said you can't say for sure the Earth had gravity 3 billion years ago and you called me an idiot, it would be based on faith. Less faith than me calling you an idiot for not believing in God, but faith none the less. Where as if I said the heavier objects falls faster because it weighs more you could call me an idiot, and should call me an idiot, because you can show me for sure that I am wrong.
 

BG Rapsodie

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #55 on: December 03, 2009, 03:28:16 PM »
I don't care what google says. Webster says Faith is belief and Belief's first synonym is Faith. In fact the main difference is that faith is usually spoken with certitude, while belief isn't. Your stupidity is making me upset. Just show me the fact and proof that the homo-sapien evolved from the homo-erectus like I can show you the the fact and proof that two objects of different mass fall at the same rate and I'll shut up. Because that is what we are talking about, not micro-evolution, or evolution in plants or insects. So stop trying to sway the argument to something I am not opposing or questioning. Just answer my questions and shut me up. Just tell me why believing in logic and fucking seeing two things of different mass fall at the same rate are the same. You fucking idiot.


You don't care what the actual usage of the term is? Why did you cite the Webster definition when it doesn't even support what you were saying? You said: belief in human evolution is faith because it can't be proven and isn't entirely certain. Webster says: faith implies certitude. Now you've made things even more complicated, since Webster has a different definition of faith than either you or I.

Using the words faith and belief are evidently pointless if we can't agree whether they have different meanings or not. So I'm just going to define it all in terms of belief. The belief in religion is believing something based on no empirical evidence. And the belief in human evolution is believing in something based on empirical evidence. You agree with that right? End of story. Now lets move on to something worth arguing about.

I said evolution is fact because it has been observed. I don't need to prove that homo-sapiens evolved from homo erectus, because that is a theory. A theory of human evolution, to be precise. It hasn't been proven, They could have evolved from something else. What is your fucking point exactly? Did I ever say its fact that homo sapiens evolved from homo erectus? What the hell is the point of this if all you're going to do is say prove [insert species] evolved from [insert other species]. Basically, your only interest seems to be in changing the definition of evolution to "whatever can't be proven."

Quote
Just tell me why believing in logic and fucking seeing two things of different mass fall at the same rate are the same.

I never did say such a thing. There is absolutely no reason you have to be insulting. Apparently you're the "fucking idiot" by misrepresenting what I'm saying and asking me to prove something I never said in the first place.

Why do you keep bringing up religion? I don't get it. Of course they are different. Faith in God is completely personal and blind. Faith in evolution is based on what we see now and apply to what probably happened thousands of years ago with humans. But it is not proof or fact that humans evolved to homo-sapian from homo-erectus, or Homo neanderthalensis, or even evolved from anything. How homo sapian originated is not scientific fact. And saying it is based on fossils and biology we've discover SO FAR does not make it fact. Just because something is very likely and logical does not make it certain.

In court you can prove a witness is a constant liar and cannot be trusted to tell the truth but you cannot prove the witness was a liar in the particular case because of that history. What I mean is if I have a history of appearing in court and making false statements and several purgery chargers to my name I would be the worst witness for either side. But if I saw a murder and told the truth on the stand I'd still be right in that moment despite the fact that that the opposing council would destroy my credibility to the jury, and whatever I said would hold no merit. As a judge or member of the jury everything logical and scientific about my testimony would say I'm full of shit. But in fact I was telling the truth and because everyone listened to logic and reason a killer would go free.

Gravity on the other hand is not left up to faith in logic, because you can test gravity if you ever question it. You cannot test past human evolution, or my testimony.

As for the insult, I figured you were trolling me and I lashed out. But from the beginning I kept the same argument and you kept giving me the run around about how it's more logical than God and whatever. All I said was that teaching evolution, meaning historical evolution based on logic is not the same as teaching gravity. However if one were to say that on Earth from day one gravity worked as it does now, that would also be based on faith. We were never on earth when it was created to know how gravity worked then. We cannot study 10 million years ago. So if I said you can't say for sure the Earth had gravity 3 billion years ago and you called me an idiot, it would be based on faith. Less faith than me calling you an idiot for not believing in God, but faith none the less. Where as if I said the heavier objects falls faster because it weighs more you could call me an idiot, and should call me an idiot, because you can show me for sure that I am wrong.

Great, so this whole time we have been arguing over nothing. You're definition of "faith" is different then mine obviously. Which both are apparently different from Websters.

I haven't given you the run around on anything. You simply keep misunderstanding the word evolution and what I mean when I say evolution is a fact. That species can evolve from other species is fact. Speciation has been observed. That is evolution. Can I prove the wider extent that a human can evolve from a primate? No. I can only come to the logical conclusion based on the evidence available. Is it extremely extremely likely? Yes. It is absolute fact? No.

And just so you are aware, gravity is a theory as well. We know objects will fall when you let them go. We know planets will orbit the sun. But any explanation of why or how this occurs is still a theory. General relativity is a theory as well. If these are taught, no reason evolution shouldn't also be taught. Science, by its nature, doesn't seek to prove. It seeks to disprove.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 03:33:10 PM by rapsodie, the troll prince »
 

Shallow

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #56 on: December 03, 2009, 03:35:40 PM »
If only we understood each other from the get go. I was never implying any kind of evolution is fiction or faith based.

and, yes Gravity is a theory and it cannot explain the why. My only punt was it is a more secure theory than evolution based only on the fact that it can be tried and tested at request. And my specific parts of gravity that I used with regards to different masses was to show that if push came to shove and science class was reduced gravity should be taught before evolution.
 

QuietTruth

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #57 on: December 03, 2009, 05:36:03 PM »
Aight, Technical Timothy

Gotta try to use that one on someone tomorrow lol


 :D


Well I guess I got into something else here, but I will say that the more I learn about evolution, the more I am led to believe that there is something that created this.  Things are almost too complex to insist that it "just happened".  Now I don't think whatever created everything is some church's idea of God, but I think there is someone/thing that is responsible.
Real fuckin' got damn talk.


And who don't agree wit evolution?? We don't believe we EVOLVED FROM MONKEYS. How Christians reject the idea of advancing? We know we evolve. Look at fuckin' race got damn it. Evolution in the context of 'ape to man' is what we reject. In THAT context of evolution.

no one says we evolved from apes. Its that we evolved from a common ancestor.

also, monkey isn't the same as ape.

Aight, Technical Timothy, but wasn't you the other nigga in that thread implying you believe we evolved from an ape??

No...the theory is that we and apes evolved from the same thing. I'm going to use a word you like to use. Coincidence. Do you think its a coincidence that we are physically so similarly to apes? What about all fossils that have been found of Homo Erectus, Neanderthal, etc, other intelligent humanoids? None of this supports your belief that humans were "created".
So who created the apes?

Like I and others on this board have already said, pick up a book. It ain't my job to explain evolution to someone who isn't willing to learn beyond what they have been conditioned for.

Looks like you're stumped. Aww, damn.

I'm not the one who's stumped. Google the shit. it ain't my job to do your research for you. You shouldn't be involved in the conversation if you don't understand what's being discussed.

You sound like a got damn broken record. Nigga please. I understand. You must just not understand my vocabulary. Mmmm k. I'm followin' youuuuuuuu Rapsodie, followin' youuuuuuuu, and not in that way so fallback. I'm followin' your conversation. What I'd like to know is how ev'rybody just skipped over M Dogg's post. Hmmm?? Why didn't nobody challenge what he said? Ah, maybe he just made a good point.

If I sound like a broken record, its because you aren't listening. DO SOME RESEARCH.

your questions don't make any sense. Its not the vocabulary, its that you don't know what you're talking about. Who created the apes? You're the one who is saying they were created, not me. If you mean what apes evolved from, you can google an article about ape evolution and find out easily. You can't just come into a discussion and expect other people to explain to you what is being discussed.

What I want to know is how you can swear that we aren't related at all to apes, when you haven't even taken the time to do any research into the topic.
I was simply replying to you with my 'who created apes'.

You said you believe in the theory that we and apes evolved from the same thang, and I'm askin' you, what created that thang? Shit just can't appear. So we formed from organisms? Well how did the organisms get here?

I assume by this you essentially mean how did the universe start? There are various theories, I'm sure you know about them. None of them can be proven obviously. However, this doesn't help your argument in the slightest. If something hasn't been proven, that doesn't give you a good reason to come up with another illogical reason. You can ask the question how did life first start, but what in the world would lead you to conclude it was created by an all powerful deity? That's using the same logic as this:

If I show some Amazonas people who are on stone age-level a TV they'll think it was magic.

Look QT, you can believe whatever you want to believe, all I want you to admit is that you rely on absolute faith. Because you are arguing this like your belief is more logical, when obviously it isn't.

Well. At least you hearing me out. I think.

Okay I rely on my faith, but it's sensible faith, wit at the least, reasonable evidence. There's thangs in The Bible that corroborates our life, even the start of our life! Even in The Quran, there's shit corroborated by Science. It's not some book saying we were dropped outta the sky by some stork. It says we formed from dust off the ground. Now if you do just a little thinkin' maybe that could mean THAT organism that you think started us all. Who knows. See you believe man was started by chance, and I believe reason. And the logical motive for that? Becuz life just can't form by accident. And you know this. Don't you? It ain't like it's completely illogical to believe in God, like ya'll acting like. Let's be real.

But its not reasonable. There's no empirical evidence to support that a god exists. That's why its not logical. There are things in the Bible that correspond to life because, guess what? The people who wrote the bible were alive!

An organism isn't dust. I don't understand the connection. Its actually pretty easy to understand why they wrote about dust. Because they knew dead bodies turn into dust by seeing them decay.

You can believe that God created man. BUT............understand that it isn't any more logical than believing that a flying spaghetti monster created man. Or that the universe has been around forever. And this is only talking about creationism. How do you explain logic behind the belief that your identity will live on when you die and spend eternity in this happy place?
Yeah they were alive and maybe telling the Truth. There where places in the Bible nobody believed where actual places until the age of archaeology. They were alive writing about current events, current events PROVED wit evidence, proving they actually occurred. If all these authors of The Bible are naming actual events, places, Kings, battles, and rises and falls of Kingdoms do you think they all really choose to flat out LIE about some man Jesus who could perform miracles that they say repeatedly, they saw wit their own eyes?  I don't think they would write all about these historical events and than just decide to throw in some fairly tale. And obviously having faith in God comes from the stories of Jesus. So.. if these authors are proven honest by telling us of actual events in their time, validating they're telling the Truth, don't you have maybe some motive to believe them for real?

Man. I don't know. I really don't get your way of thinking on this. I just can't wrap my brain around the belief all these trees, all these plants, all these animals, all these mountains, all the seas, all of mankind happened by chance. Can't figure it out. I can't believe that we ate animal and found it HEALTHY for us. If this world was made by chance, what if we ate meat and it was poisonous. We would die. There'd be no mankind. But we ate it and it was good for us and kept us alive to survive. And you think that is by accident too??

And homie there will never be 'empirical evidence to support that a God exists'. Ever. Prolly never ever nigga. How you know God ain't MORE than matter, time, space and energy? You cannot measure or you cannot study or PROVE somethang humans can't reach, what they can't see, feel, touch or hear. IT'S PROVEN FACT, humans cannot see everythang, that's proven by microscopes. WHICH MAKES IS POSSIBLE and EVIDENT the human naked eye is blind. JUST IMAGINE what else it can't see and will never know.

'How do you explain logic behind the belief that your identity will live on when you die and spend eternity in this happy place?'....ain't it FACT we give off body heat. What's body heat? Human energy right? So we must have energy of some sort right? Energy can never be created or destroyed!!! It can't be destroyed! So where does it go? Energy just might be another word for soul. So wit that said, off it goes wit God to Heaven.
 

BG Rapsodie

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #58 on: December 03, 2009, 08:24:47 PM »
Yeah they were alive and maybe telling the Truth. There where places in the Bible nobody believed where actual places until the age of archaeology. They were alive writing about current events, current events PROVED wit evidence, proving they actually occurred. If all these authors of The Bible are naming actual events, places, Kings, battles, and rises and falls of Kingdoms do you think they all really choose to flat out LIE about some man Jesus who could perform miracles that they say repeatedly, they saw wit their own eyes?  I don't think they would write all about these historical events and than just decide to throw in some fairly tale. And obviously having faith in God comes from the stories of Jesus. So.. if these authors are proven honest by telling us of actual events in their time, validating they're telling the Truth, don't you have maybe some motive to believe them for real?

There is no motive to believe anything in the bible. Because a million other things talk about events, yet most of us don't believe in them. Why not believe in the Greek and Roman gods homie? Why not believe in African myths? Why not believe in witchcraft? Because it isn't logical thinking. What is the real difference  between Christianity and myths? You are acting like the bible is the only story that talk about events.

You know what's crazy about the bible? People in the bible actually see god! He's there! He's punishing evil people, he's saving his followers, he's talking to people, etc.

It's not logical thinking to believe in a book that men wrote 3000 years ago. What's the difference between that and scientology?

Quote
Man. I don't know. I really don't get your way of thinking on this. I just can't wrap my brain around the belief all these trees, all these plants, all these animals, all these mountains, all the seas, all of mankind happened by chance. Can't figure it out. I can't believe that we ate animal and found it HEALTHY for us. If this world was made by chance, what if we ate meat and it was poisonous. We would die. There'd be no mankind. But we ate it and it was good for us and kept us alive to survive. And you think that is by accident too??

lmao.....wtf homie. There was a lot of shit that was poisonous for us. A lot of people did die. I don't get what you're trying to say. To me its all random. Meat could've been poisonous and poisonous stuff could've been good for you. Would it have made a difference? Not really.

Quote
And homie there will never be 'empirical evidence to support that a God exists'. Ever. Prolly never ever nigga. How you know God ain't MORE than matter, time, space and energy? You cannot measure or you cannot study or PROVE somethang humans can't reach, what they can't see, feel, touch or hear. IT'S PROVEN FACT, humans cannot see everythang, that's proven by microscopes. WHICH MAKES IS POSSIBLE and EVIDENT the human naked eye is blind. JUST IMAGINE what else it can't see and will never know.

As I said before, I can "imagine" about an invisible spaghetti monster and it will have the same result. Doesn't give it an ounce of truth.

Quote
'How do you explain logic behind the belief that your identity will live on when you die and spend eternity in this happy place?'....ain't it FACT we give off body heat. What's body heat? Human energy right? So we must have energy of some sort right? Energy can never be created or destroyed!!! It can't be destroyed! So where does it go? Energy just might be another word for soul. So wit that said, off it goes wit God to Heaven.

This is simply a matter of you not understanding what energy is. Energy is physical. We consume energy when we eat food, breathe, hence we give it off as well. Humans aren't the only ones who give off heat ya know. Are you saying animals and plants have souls? A light bulb gives off heat, does a light bulb have a soul?

Its not a fucking mystery where energy goes. Its still around us!! Heat doesn't disappear.
 

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #59 on: December 03, 2009, 08:47:11 PM »
Some of this shit is just hilarious. The chances that the theory of evolution is truth are extremely high. Every single thing points in that fuccin' direction. It's almost not a theory anymore and it's just mind boggling to me that people still believe in god. I'm a quote QT when I say I just can't wrap my head around it.
 

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #60 on: December 03, 2009, 08:57:05 PM »
Some of this shit is just hilarious. The chances that the theory of evolution is truth are extremely high. Every single thing points in that fuccin' direction. It's almost not a theory anymore and it's just mind boggling to me that people still believe in god. I'm a quote QT when I say I just can't wrap my head around it.


Even if Evolution were 110% true, that has nothing to do with God existing or not. If God could create man in one step, he could create an in 100 steps.

I believe in God because I hope there is something more than my current existence. It's as simple as that. That doesn't mean I don't live life less because I think there's more after I die. It just means I hope there's more after I die. You find it mind boggling that people don't want to die?
 

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #61 on: December 03, 2009, 10:04:38 PM »
Some of this shit is just hilarious. The chances that the theory of evolution is truth are extremely high. Every single thing points in that fuccin' direction. It's almost not a theory anymore and it's just mind boggling to me that people still believe in god. I'm a quote QT when I say I just can't wrap my head around it.


Even if Evolution were 110% true, that has nothing to do with God existing or not. If God could create man in one step, he could create an in 100 steps.

That would probably come down to your definition of god. What is god to you?. Is he almighty, all seeing, is he Allah?, Tupac?, Jesus? or is god just that thing that sparked the beginning of life and everything else was just process?. In other words...god is evolution. It really does not matter how you look at it you're not gonna make any sense of it. Everything we know about god comes from man. Human beings with hype active imaginations. And I know I know...you have faith and I don't. And you're right. That's exactly it. Faith is what separates people like you and me.

Quote
I believe in God because I hope there is something more than my current existence. It's as simple as that. That doesn't mean I don't live life less because I think there's more after I die. It just means I hope there's more after I die. You find it mind boggling that people don't want to die?

Again. That's faith. And no I don't find it mind boggling that people don't want to die but why would that want me to believe in god. Ever read the bible?. Why would I want to serve a piece of shit like that?. A god that kills women and children. You're probably gonna say some shit like "if you think god's like that then you probably will never know god". So what should I do...make my own god?. See god the way I want to see him. We could go on and on here and it's gonna get us anywhere. I've said this all before. NONE OF THIS MAKES SENSE TO ME and I'll never understand why it does to people like yourself. Are you really this afraid of death?.

And WHY is it so bad to just die. I understand why people don't want to die but this is not something that should be scary or bad. You're not gonna feel any pain. There's no more consciousness. Why is that bad?. The thought alone just relaxes me and it's not that I want to die but I'm not afraid of death. I know I'm not going to any hell. That's for damn sure.
 

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #62 on: December 03, 2009, 10:21:00 PM »






 

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #63 on: December 03, 2009, 10:21:36 PM »
Because a million other things talk about events, yet most of us don't believe in them. Why not believe in the Greek and Roman gods homie?
In Greek mythology, Atlas was the man holding up the Earth on his shoulders right?

That's so funny becuz in the Book of Job
Quote from: Job 26:7
He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

How in the FUCK would he know this? And with your modern Science today, that's proven fact. And what I'd like to know, tell me, how in the hell would a man from that era know this?

Quote from: Job 26:8
He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them.

What's a cloud? A cloud is a visible mass of liquid. Tell me how the fuck Job would measure this? And know this? The study of Weather and precipitation begin in the 19th century too?

Quote from: 1 Corinthians 15:39
All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

I read somewhere that the discovery of fingerprints didn't begin until the 19th century. How the fuck would the author of this know?

Quote from: 1 Corinthians 15:41
There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

Could be wrong, but wasn't it until the 1700's that astronomers discovered that no 2 stars are the same? Once a fuckin' again, how would they know? And Greek mythology thought the stars where Gods right?

 

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #64 on: December 03, 2009, 10:58:57 PM »
Religious or at least spiritual people should be using science to prove God, instead of fighting obviously true patterns of evolution. The fact that humans developed from shared ancestors at one point does not disprove that there was an initial spark of life to begin it. The 1st lkaw of thermodynamics and other scientific disciplines says nothing can come form nothing. earlier in this thread QT said that the first life had to come from something. Maybe there is some alien life we could call "God". Instead of just making up our own bullshit stories like the bible or the koran, maybe we should be paying scientists million dollar salaries to find out the origins of our world, so we have something tangible to believe in.If that could become a reality, there wouldn't be friction between the religious communities and pretty much everyone else in the world. We would have a base, we would have God, and we would have scientific proof of our origin.
 

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #65 on: December 03, 2009, 11:07:06 PM »
Some of this shit is just hilarious. The chances that the theory of evolution is truth are extremely high. Every single thing points in that fuccin' direction. It's almost not a theory anymore and it's just mind boggling to me that people still believe in god. I'm a quote QT when I say I just can't wrap my head around it.


Even if Evolution were 110% true, that has nothing to do with God existing or not. If God could create man in one step, he could create an in 100 steps.

That would probably come down to your definition of god. What is god to you?. Is he almighty, all seeing, is he Allah?, Tupac?, Jesus? or is god just that thing that sparked the beginning of life and everything else was just process?. In other words...god is evolution. It really does not matter how you look at it you're not gonna make any sense of it. Everything we know about god comes from man. Human beings with hype active imaginations. And I know I know...you have faith and I don't. And you're right. That's exactly it. Faith is what separates people like you and me.


All I'm saying is that the existence of a creator of the universe is not dependent on whether evolution happened or not. Proving humans evolved from older extinct species proves that the Old Testament is a lie. It doesn't prove there was never a creator.


Quote
I believe in God because I hope there is something more than my current existence. It's as simple as that. That doesn't mean I don't live life less because I think there's more after I die. It just means I hope there's more after I die. You find it mind boggling that people don't want to die?

Again. That's faith. And no I don't find it mind boggling that people don't want to die but why would that want me to believe in god. Ever read the bible?. Why would I want to serve a piece of shit like that?. A god that kills women and children. You're probably gonna say some shit like "if you think god's like that then you probably will never know god". So what should I do...make my own god?. See god the way I want to see him. We could go on and on here and it's gonna get us anywhere. I've said this all before. NONE OF THIS MAKES SENSE TO ME and I'll never understand why it does to people like yourself. Are you really this afraid of death?.

And WHY is it so bad to just die. I understand why people don't want to die but this is not something that should be scary or bad. You're not gonna feel any pain. There's no more consciousness. Why is that bad?. The thought alone just relaxes me and it's not that I want to die but I'm not afraid of death. I know I'm not going to any hell. That's for damn sure.

I never told you to believe in anything. I could care less what you believe in. I don't even believe in hell, much less believe people that aren't Christian will go there. I also don't believe in Jewish mythology. I may have grown up in the church but it wasn't and still isn't an important part of my life. I read the Gospels at around 19 years old independently and decided that this was the ideal way to live. What was written as the words of Jesus made sense to me. It had less to do with eternal life or reward and more to do with morality. I thought it was okay to steal from rich people or from corporations. I thought it was okay to get involved in the drug trade or various scams to make a quick buck. I read what Jesus said and I no longer thought that. It's not that I obeyed what he said because I now believed in heaven and wanted to get in. It's that when I read it I realized I was wrong and decided to be right. And I personally came to that conclusion because of Christ.

Good for all those people that didn't need Jesus to say it for them to get it. I wasn't one of them. You can believe whatever you want. I'll just believe in what I believe and hope I get to believe it forever. If not then so be it.
 

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #66 on: December 04, 2009, 03:24:01 AM »
Because a million other things talk about events, yet most of us don't believe in them. Why not believe in the Greek and Roman gods homie?
In Greek mythology, Atlas was the man holding up the Earth on his shoulders right?

That's so funny becuz in the Book of Job
Quote from: Job 26:7
He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

How in the FUCK would he know this? And with your modern Science today, that's proven fact. And what I'd like to know, tell me, how in the hell would a man from that era know this?

Quote from: Job 26:8
He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them.

What's a cloud? A cloud is a visible mass of liquid. Tell me how the fuck Job would measure this? And know this? The study of Weather and precipitation begin in the 19th century too?

Quote from: 1 Corinthians 15:39
All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

I read somewhere that the discovery of fingerprints didn't begin until the 19th century. How the fuck would the author of this know?

Quote from: 1 Corinthians 15:41
There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

Could be wrong, but wasn't it until the 1700's that astronomers discovered that no 2 stars are the same? Once a fuckin' again, how would they know? And Greek mythology thought the stars where Gods right?



The world doesn't "hang" on "nothing". That's really not quite what science says. But if someone 3000 years ago watched the sun or moon, maybe he could come to this conclusion. Just a thought.

It says the water is in the clouds. How could he have such brilliant insight? Maybe because water comes "out of" clouds? Even if it said (which it doesn't) they are made of water, ever walked through fog? You don't need to measure to know they consist of water.

What in the world do fingerprints have to do with it.  I'm suspecting you to make fun of us, the whole time.  ;D It just separates humans, beasts, fish and birds, which is not even accurate.

The bible is a hundred times more often wrong than right and mostly inaccurate. What's the point of posting some random text passages which could be 'true' (okay, not really) by heavily interpreting them, although I understood that to you the bible is true word by word?

I'm not gonna do this again, I just want to know why you can't figure this shit out by yourself?
i don´t need any medicate shit im 100 normal.
 

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #67 on: December 04, 2009, 10:12:16 AM »
Fraxxx, why the fuck you gotta be so technical. Can't you just comprehend the jest of it. Do you want me stop quoting The Bible than and start quoting The Quran, cuz I'll do that too. And that shit was written 2,000 years later, AFTER The Bible. And look at the faith wrapped around that book by Muslims. The Quran is more modern than The Bible, why no discredit to it? Quran was written 1,500 years back, and The Bible, 3,500? Hmmm?

Science ain't gonna prove what ya'll want. So take your hand off your ass. Like I said, human beings may be as smart as ya'll think. Or we think. Our naked eyes cannot see everythang. And if heaven and God is out of our space, our time and / or matter. We ain't gonna be able to prove that, discover that, or find that. Until you die. But than again some of you may never know. Ha, ha. Anyways fuck allllllllll this.

There's a God, okay people, NOW end thread.
 

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #68 on: December 04, 2009, 10:46:07 AM »
I have to be technical because you tried to use that shit as an argument. The question remains, why couldn't you see for yourself that it was bullshit.

You can believe in god all you want, I'm fine with that. I hope it'll work for you.                             ^^^
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Re: Evolution
« Reply #69 on: December 04, 2009, 11:27:34 AM »
 

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #70 on: December 04, 2009, 01:11:06 PM »
^^^Indeed! QT, you might want to check this part out.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/religion/faith/discuss_02.html

Interesting read, could possibly calm down the argument a bit-
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Re: Evolution
« Reply #71 on: December 04, 2009, 02:24:49 PM »
It's just a shame that some people have to include religion into everything: politics, science, etc.
 

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #72 on: December 04, 2009, 03:08:53 PM »
It's just a shame that some people have to include religion into everything: politics, science, etc.

Still a fucking powerful tool. That's how I get the girls to deepthroat:"Do it for Jesus!"
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Re: Evolution
« Reply #73 on: December 04, 2009, 03:12:54 PM »
It's just a shame that some people have to include religion into everything: politics, science, etc.

Still a fucking powerful tool. That's how I get the girls to deepthroat:"Do it for Jesus!"
LOL I need to try that.

I've had Jesus Freaks do it anyways, and then they go to church the next day so it should be a piece of cake.
 

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #74 on: December 04, 2009, 09:03:43 PM »
Quote
11. Does evolution prove there is no God?    
No.
So all ya'll arguing this, why do ya'll not believe in God?

Seeing evolution ain't proving this.