Author Topic: Where is the left? The Missing Left in America  (Read 267 times)

Don Seer

Where is the left? The Missing Left in America
« on: November 24, 2002, 12:48:50 PM »
(got this from another forum)

The Missing Left in America

Where is the Left? As defined by the Right today, anything that is the Left has been brandished Evil or Communist. Any attempt by the Left to have the government offer a real social service (like Health Care) is portrayed as pure Socialism and anti-capitalism [or anti-corporation]. These social cares are vilified under the guise as the sole reason we have Taxes; taxes which the Right says burdens our society. The Right Wing promises lower taxes but continues to increase budgets and run horrible deficits. This policy stands to send the economy into ruin. And the so called "lower" taxes show absolutely no improvement for the society over all. The population is duped into believing that this lack of social services will somehow ad value to life. The burden is passed on to the underclass society which can not pay. Meanwhile, during the this Right Wing spending frenzy the military has all but an unlimited cash supply. This is a Fatherland mentality where the weak must be trodden to make the chosen people strong.

Through the continual slander of social improvements. The Right Wing has done an incredible job of creating propaganda to eliminate the Left. The Far Right Wing is now the Right. And Moderates are today considered Leftists. This is a political setting that leaves the Right Wing to represent itself as the two party system.

What is the Left? The Left is a society for all people, one that has compassion for it's citizens.

The Right would have you ask, "why should we have to care?" Capitalism is every man for himself. Isn't that the Christian way? Every Man for himself?

The Right, starting with McCarthy, has promoted government sanctioned and institutionalized FEAR and slander to begin eliminating the Left until there is no Left in America.

People today are ashamed and afraid to be associated with the Left. The witch-hunt of McCarthyism was the beginning to drive out the Left, as are the continued smear campaigns against organizations that are for the People - Organizations like the Labor Unions and the ACLU. Today plain and simple, People are AFRAID to be on the Left. The often insidious penalties for being on the Left are diminished by media glorification of personal intrusion by the police and more and more Freedoms made illegal.

With Right Wing thinking, Personal Freedom (The Pursuit of Happiness) becomes less and less an American Inalienable Right but more and more, not only a sin in the eyes of the Right, but against the law.

For the Right Wing, violence is accepted; the police state is accepted. The surrender of personal rights is accepted AND EXPECTED if you are a GOOD Citizen.

To the Right Wing, true personal freedom is a thing of the Left. Your freedom has been diminished to shopping. You are still free as long as you spend your money, support the large corporations and monopolies. They have been replacing your government and you are almost powerless to stop them.

In reality The Left represents the People. The Right represents a Totalitarian Controlling Power. Continually the Right has made representations of Citizen's Solidarity as subversive, ugly and wrong. And now, there is only the Right Wing.

Do politicians not represent the people because their funding comes from large corporations? Are they afraid to represent the people, the Left, because you can’t campaign in America without the large dollars from the large corporations? Do politicians not represent the left because social services mean taxes, and social services mean large corporations will have to pay taxes? Lower taxes is another way that large corporations get out of paying the debts owed to the workers. Just as corporations have been able to layoff the work force during record profit times. Why not get out of paying taxes too.

Or do politicians not represent the Left because it simply doesn't exist any more?

The Left is missing and so is it's representation in the Government of America. What America has today is The Right Wing the far Right Wing and their representation of irresponsible phantom evil Left.

The Right Wing has done a perfect propaganda job - There is NO Left in America.

Who is the Right Wing? It's not hard to figure out. It's the Media and Large Corporations. The Right Wing is Big Business standing behind the curtain, pulling all of the puppet strings.

The Left is the frightening uncontrollable power of the people exercising Free Will.

The evil is not in the Left but in losing freedom to the Totalitarian Controlling Power on the Right.
 

Jay ay Beee

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Re:Where is the left? The Missing Left in America
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2002, 11:49:24 AM »
The NHS is fucked but at least if I needed an operation it would be free

 ;D
 

Don Seer

Re:Where is the left? The Missing Left in America
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2002, 12:11:04 PM »
exactly. i know this girl that was a bicycle courier in san francisico. she was in an accident. she ended up not being able to work and then had to pay for all the medical care on credit.. now she's fucked because she couldnt work for a long time.. plus medical bills brought on huge debts that made her situation worse.

In the UK the treatment would have been free.

(btw.. she was raised in the US, but spent from the ages 12-16 or so in the UK, she keeps telling me how the UK is being slowly 'americanised' and how she wishes it wouldnt sell out)
 

Don Jacob

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Re:Where is the left? The Missing Left in America
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2002, 01:10:02 AM »
i don't know if i'd want health care free, but then again if i got cancer i wouldn't want to put my house up to get rid of it.....i dunno this is like a pogo stick to me


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Don Seer

Re:Where is the left? The Missing Left in America
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2002, 02:47:37 AM »
Whats bad about free health care? I dont understand the downside?

Isn't it more humane to treat everyone equally and freely?

Those who want higher class treatment can and do pay for private treatment where they might get a private room or whatever.
 

Woodrow

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Re:Where is the left? The Missing Left in America
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2002, 03:10:41 AM »
I recently had 2 relatives who had to get MRI's. One lived in Canada and the other Here in the states. My relative here in the states went out and paid $2,000 for it the day his doctor said he needed it, The one in Canada had to wait for 3 and a half weeks to get it, but she didn't pay a dime. Which is better? There isn't really a good answer in my opinion...
 

Don Seer

Re:Where is the left? The Missing Left in America
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2002, 10:59:46 AM »
you dont see it.

it all depends on how rich your relatives are.

what if neither of your relatives had a single dollar to their name?

3 weeks... or whats the other alternative?
 

Woodrow

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Re:Where is the left? The Missing Left in America
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2002, 12:24:38 PM »
you dont see it.

it all depends on how rich your relatives are.

what if neither of your relatives had a single dollar to their name?

3 weeks... or whats the other alternative?
 

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Re:Where is the left? The Missing Left in America
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2002, 01:25:09 PM »
(got this from another forum)

The Missing Left in America

Where is the Left? As defined by the Right today, anything that is the Left has been brandished Evil or Communist. Any attempt by the Left to have the government offer a real social service (like Health Care) is portrayed as pure Socialism and anti-capitalism [or anti-corporation]. These social cares are vilified under the guise as the sole reason we have Taxes; taxes which the Right says burdens our society. The Right Wing promises lower taxes but continues to increase budgets and run horrible deficits. This policy stands to send the economy into ruin. And the so called "lower" taxes show absolutely no improvement for the society over all. The population is duped into believing that this lack of social services will somehow ad value to life. The burden is passed on to the underclass society which can not pay. Meanwhile, during the this Right Wing spending frenzy the military has all but an unlimited cash supply. This is a Fatherland mentality where the weak must be trodden to make the chosen people strong.

Through the continual slander of social improvements. The Right Wing has done an incredible job of creating propaganda to eliminate the Left. The Far Right Wing is now the Right. And Moderates are today considered Leftists. This is a political setting that leaves the Right Wing to represent itself as the two party system.

What is the Left? The Left is a society for all people, one that has compassion for it's citizens.

The Right would have you ask, "why should we have to care?" Capitalism is every man for himself. Isn't that the Christian way? Every Man for himself?

The Right, starting with McCarthy, has promoted government sanctioned and institutionalized FEAR and slander to begin eliminating the Left until there is no Left in America.

People today are ashamed and afraid to be associated with the Left. The witch-hunt of McCarthyism was the beginning to drive out the Left, as are the continued smear campaigns against organizations that are for the People - Organizations like the Labor Unions and the ACLU. Today plain and simple, People are AFRAID to be on the Left. The often insidious penalties for being on the Left are diminished by media glorification of personal intrusion by the police and more and more Freedoms made illegal.

With Right Wing thinking, Personal Freedom (The Pursuit of Happiness) becomes less and less an American Inalienable Right but more and more, not only a sin in the eyes of the Right, but against the law.

For the Right Wing, violence is accepted; the police state is accepted. The surrender of personal rights is accepted AND EXPECTED if you are a GOOD Citizen.

To the Right Wing, true personal freedom is a thing of the Left. Your freedom has been diminished to shopping. You are still free as long as you spend your money, support the large corporations and monopolies. They have been replacing your government and you are almost powerless to stop them.

In reality The Left represents the People. The Right represents a Totalitarian Controlling Power. Continually the Right has made representations of Citizen's Solidarity as subversive, ugly and wrong. And now, there is only the Right Wing.

Do politicians not represent the people because their funding comes from large corporations? Are they afraid to represent the people, the Left, because you can’t campaign in America without the large dollars from the large corporations? Do politicians not represent the left because social services mean taxes, and social services mean large corporations will have to pay taxes? Lower taxes is another way that large corporations get out of paying the debts owed to the workers. Just as corporations have been able to layoff the work force during record profit times. Why not get out of paying taxes too.

Or do politicians not represent the Left because it simply doesn't exist any more?

The Left is missing and so is it's representation in the Government of America. What America has today is The Right Wing the far Right Wing and their representation of irresponsible phantom evil Left.

The Right Wing has done a perfect propaganda job - There is NO Left in America.

Who is the Right Wing? It's not hard to figure out. It's the Media and Large Corporations. The Right Wing is Big Business standing behind the curtain, pulling all of the puppet strings.

The Left is the frightening uncontrollable power of the people exercising Free Will.

The evil is not in the Left but in losing freedom to the Totalitarian Controlling Power on the Right.

word
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll
 

CWalker187

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Re:Where is the left? The Missing Left in America
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2002, 10:03:55 PM »
Whats bad about free health care? I dont understand the downside?

Isn't it more humane to treat everyone equally and freely?

Those who want higher class treatment can and do pay for private treatment where they might get a private room or whatever.


What about the fact that if you want an operation, you probably will have to wait on a list for months and months while I as an American can have the surgery instantly. And what about the fact that I as an American have by far the best medical care in the world.

There are many downsides to universal heath care.
 

Don Jacob

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Re:Where is the left? The Missing Left in America
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2002, 10:14:16 PM »
Whats bad about free health care? I dont understand the downside?

Isn't it more humane to treat everyone equally and freely?

Those who want higher class treatment can and do pay for private treatment where they might get a private room or whatever.


What about the fact that if you want an operation, you probably will have to wait on a list for months and months while I as an American can have the surgery instantly. And what about the fact that I as an American have by far the best medical care in the world.

There are many downsides to universal heath care.


yeah my grandma had breast cancer.....she use to live in america but married a canadian dude and lives there now

here she had a really good doctor and she was spared from feeling most of the side effects of treating cancer, she had to pay but it was well worth it she says .....the cancer (i forgot the medica term for it where it goes dormit andyour fine, i thnk it's banine but i don't know) and she was cool, when she moved to canada it acted up again.....now she was  getting free health care but she said that the treatments were pretty crappy, so she paid for better service and it wasn't nearly as good......so basically she just got sick of it all and had both breasts and her limpnodes removed which was more of  a hastle than paying and being treated in the US she said


^ that ain't an anti free health care message but some people don't find it to be that glorious

it's kinda like a split issue with me , i'm on neither side


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CWalker187

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Re:Where is the left? The Missing Left in America
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2002, 10:22:54 PM »
The article was extremely dumb by the way. Leftists are in big trouble. More conservative parties are gaining much more power and popularity, in both America and Europe. I think that leftists are too far out of touch with the people.

That is why I vote straight Republican.
 

Don Seer

Re:Where is the left? The Missing Left in America
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2002, 01:47:48 AM »
uhhh no.
for one the UK is 'left' for the first time in over 10 years.

No one of you has answered my question so I will rephrase.


In a society where people have to pay for their health care whats happens to those who cant afford treatment?

They are left to die?
 

CharlieBrown

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Re:Where is the left? The Missing Left in America
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2002, 11:25:49 AM »
CWalker i have to correct you as America doesn't have the best health care in the world, officially it has the 38th best in the world. That is appalling for a country as well off as it is, and the fact that not everyone can afford all of it's services is even worse. Oh and Britains NHS which is so often put down in the media and by Americans who don't know shit, our healthcare is rated 20 places higher than the USA (France has the best in the world).
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Re:Where is the left? The Missing Left in America
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2002, 01:31:21 PM »
Whats bad about free health care? I dont understand the downside?

Isn't it more humane to treat everyone equally and freely?

Those who want higher class treatment can and do pay for private treatment where they might get a private room or whatever.
The downside is that you still have to pay for it even if you don't use it. The quaility between public and private healthcare will never be the same because the general public will never pay the taxes for luxury treatment - they just want cheap and cheerful. But the few who do want more comfortable private health care still have to pay for the "free" public health care they don't want to use.
 

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Re:Where is the left? The Missing Left in America
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2002, 03:00:22 PM »
What's wrong with people paying small amounts on their taxes to help out their fellow citizen?

Oh and damn right France has the best healthcare my Dad fucked up his knee on holiday and needed an op there and then and it was fucking awesome.
 

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Re:Where is the left? The Missing Left in America
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2002, 03:03:55 PM »
uhhh no.
for one the UK is 'left' for the first time in over 10 years.

No one of you has answered my question so I will rephrase.


In a society where people have to pay for their health care whats happens to those who cant afford treatment?

They are left to die?

My mom was diagnosed with cancer this last winter, and was in the hospital for weeks, and had two major operations.  The bills totalled about 120,000 dollars, all of which was covered by Medicaid, available to anyone who 'can't afford treatment'.  

My father died two years ago.  The attending physician who tried to save his life waved all of his fees for the 4 hours of work he put in on my dad trying to bring him back to life.  The hospital also dropped their fees for the storage of the body and the ambulance ride there.

Anymore questions?
 

CWalker187

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Re:Where is the left? The Missing Left in America
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2002, 12:13:16 AM »
You guys are mistaken....America's hospitals are the best in the world. When wealthy people around the world need care...they come here.
 

CharlieBrown

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Re:Where is the left? The Missing Left in America
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2002, 12:47:43 AM »
No CWalker you are wrong. Officially The USA has the 38th best health care system in the world (that means that 37 other countries have better health care than in America)
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Don Seer

Re:Where is the left? The Missing Left in America
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2002, 01:25:20 AM »
maybe you're both right....  ;)

perhaps that rating relates to an all round figure.

cwalker... yes they might be the best *if you can afford it*, but 'best' might not just be as shallow as to be weighed up by monetary things.

my point is if u cant afford health insurance and medicaid wont cover you, you can end up in debt pretty easy after a accident... here they bandage you up and your on your way.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2002, 01:29:39 AM by Overseer »
 

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Re:Where is the left? The Missing Left in America
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2002, 05:56:13 AM »
I guess it all depends on what you guys think about what's better. See, I've seen both sides. Growing up in California poor, the state actually paid for my health care because my dad could not afford it, so I got Medi-Cal (California insurance). After graduating high school, I was on my own, then my dad got a job, and I'm under his insurance as long as I'm in college. My grandma changes health insurance all the time, because most hospitals she goes too, she don't like. After retirement age, elderly get Medi-Care, or can change. In between, if you can get a union job, that comes with health benefits. Our system of health insurance is not the best, but we do prioritze for elderly, and children. They will not be left to fend for themselves if that are helpless. Although Bushes changes have made it harder on some elderly, like my grandma who used to get free Medican, now she pays for her own. So it's not getting better, but right now, we are cool. Universal health care would be great, Clinton tried getting that. But of course, even the Democrats disagreed with it. So in the future, we will see. But right now, we can hold ourselves up.